Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

[Twor]

That would be an interesting way to go with Powertech. Keeping the damage output the same, but toning down the range would solve the problem.

 

Sure than you'd need to give us a gap closer thats not afflicted by resolve and on a 15 second CD though.

[Sookster]

Sure than you'd need to give us a gap closer thats not afflicted by resolve and on a 15 second CD though.

 

Well we have been asking to swap grapple and jet charge around.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Sookster

[Dmasterr]

Sure than you'd need to give us a gap closer thats not afflicted by resolve and on a 15 second CD though.

 

Operatives (concealment) have much weaker ranged damage, and don't have a gap closer, DREAM ON.

[Twor]

Operatives (concealment) have much weaker ranged damage, and don't have a gap closer, DREAM ON.

 

Stealh is not a gap closer than? Right.

[Dmasterr]

Stealh is not a gap closer than? Right.

 

Do you know what gap closer means?

 

Not to mention u have Grapple, which is awesome, especially in hutball.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Twor]

Do you know what gap closer means?

 

Not to mention u have Grapple, which is awesome, especially in hutball.

 

Like I said a gap closer that does't affect resolve.

Btw explosive surge does 800er crits on geared opponents as an assault with 3 wh pieces.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Twor

[Dmasterr]

Like I said a gap closer that does't affect resolve.

 

lol, you have better ranged damage over concealment operatives, really strong burst overall, AND a gap closer.

 

And you still whine? go play an operative.

[Twor]

lol, you have better ranged damage over concealment operatives, really strong burst overall, AND a gap closer.

 

And you still whine? go play an operative.

 

I didn't whine. I'm quit dissapointed by your posts- in all other matters you displayed well thought out ones. In this thread you whine and make bad comparisions. Sad panda.

 

My post was in answer to a proposed change to the range of Vanguards. Whatever.

[Dmasterr]

I didn't whine. I'm quit dissapointed by your posts- in all other matters you displayed well thought out ones. In this thread you whine and make bad comparisions. Sad panda.

 

My post was in answer to a proposed change to the range of Vanguards. Whatever.

 

I'm just laughing my azz off at ppl thinking that vanguard/powertech's deserve 1 more gap closer while operatives have not yet been deleted from the game, and exist in their current state.

[Twor]

I'm just laughing my azz off at ppl thinking that vanguard/powertech's deserve 1 more gap closer while operatives have not yet been deleted from the game, and exist in their current state.

 

Again I said we need another gap closer IF!! the changes that were proposed up there (to lower the range of PT skills through the board would be realized.

[NanoX]

Powertech / Vanguard is not OP, its all about the skillz, just watch this video I proof you how to play this with the perfect ammo management and use all my abilities to the max.

 

http://de.twitch.tv/nanoxswz/b/320246319

[Sookster]

Again I said we need another gap closer IF!! the changes that were proposed up there (to lower the range of PT skills through the board would be realized.

 

You're kidding, right? Or are you spoiled. Part of why I play shieldtech is to have jet charge, goes good with grapple when needing to separate healer/tanks or harass the ball carrier.

 

Stealth is NOT a gap closer, assassin/shadow has force speed, which is their gap closer along with pull from the tank tree, PT/VG has the same except the other way around.

[Agooz]

They don't need 4-10 meters. 10-30 is enought.

Termal detonator, unload, railshot, rapid shots, incedary missile, explosive dart - 30 meters.

Only flame burst is 10 meters.

LOL

-90% of the time explosive dart wont be used if you have TD. (they share the same CD)

- A Pyro PT will probably use Unload 1-2 times during the ENTIRE game?

- Rapid shots? if someone is complaining about Pyros because they have Rapid shots (which is only used to vent heat), then they deserve to die.

- Incediary Missile, arguably the most heat intensive and least damaging ability in the entire Pyro's arsenal. Most Pyros would rather just stand around and do nothing than use IM. The only purpose of IM is when you are opening on someone and do not want to waste a PPA, and that's ONLY if you have 0 heat. In a parse, IM probably amounts to 1-2% of the total damage output.

- So you conveniently forget Rocket Punch, which is part of a Pyro's rotation, because it is a 4m ability?

 

Their survivability is pretty descent heavy armor, self heal and shield on cd, which can be reduced significantly if specced. They actually have better survivability than dps specced guards, but guard needs to always be in 4 meters.

DPS specced Guard has the same shield but on longed CD. Powertech has good self heal with cool down reduction if specced. Guard has small self heal on long CD which consume a LOT of focus. If you use self heal on guard you run out of focus.

 

Really? I didnt know guardians only had ONE defensive CD. They must have been nerfed while I was sleeping. Pyro's have good self heals? Really?

Why do people compare one AC to another on just specific abilities, and not the entire package? Can Pyros, leap to an opponent, or intercede to a friendly, or stance switch instantly, or have an instant aoe attack centered on them, or push someone.....

[Fdzzaigl]

Powertech / Vanguard is not OP, its all about the skillz, just watch this video I proof you how to play this with the perfect ammo management and use all my abilities to the max.

 

http://de.twitch.tv/nanoxswz/b/320246319

 

Gz, you've got a nice pocket healer and are fighting terrible opponents.

 

But yeah, the spec is simple, and you can get high damage by spamming dots on everything, are you very helpful to your team? No.

[Eszi]

Gz, you've got a nice pocket healer and are fighting terrible opponents.

 

But yeah, the spec is simple, and you can get high damage by spamming dots on everything, are you very helpful to your team? No.

 

We all know that killing enemies is in no way helpful

His point is obviously that vanguards/optechs can skip any resource management, almost completely ignore armor and still get top damage all the time with just 2 buttons.

If this isn't enough reason for nerf, your opinion is just not valid.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Eszi

[Fdzzaigl]

We all know that killing enemies is in no way helpful

His point is obviously that vanguards/optechs can skip any resource management, almost completely ignore armor and still get top damage all the time with just 2 buttons.

If this isn't enough reason for nerf, your opinion is just not valid.

 

Assault requires 5 buttons to play their total burst rotation, I've never claimed the spec was hard to play or the burst wasn't too high. It is, but nerfing a bare-bones class isn't something you do without giving some more mechanics in return.

 

But no, damage numbers of a guy with a scoundrel healer following him around, spamming dots on everything while he depends on others to finish off opponents, against imps who do 100k damage max, at 50, in battlemaster and warhero gear, is hardly a good representation of being able "to get top damage with 2 buttons".

 

I have a gunslinger, when she just dinged 50 I specced her dirty fighting, in a game full of BM / WH geared people, I got top damage (350k) in recruit gear, by simply spamming dots on everything in sight and was completely useless to my team.

I used two abilities for that: shrap bomb and vital shot. Wonna nerf it too?

[Agooz]

We all know that killing enemies is in no way helpful

His point is obviously that vanguards/optechs can skip any resource management, almost completely ignore armor and still get top damage all the time with just 2 buttons.

If this isn't enough reason for nerf, your opinion is just not valid.

 

FYI, Pyrotech are arguably the most resource management intensive AC. Advanced Prototypes have less issues with resources, but not as bursty. Why are you even obsessed with armor penetration? Rail Shot, the main damage burst of a Pyro is white damage. It NEEDs the armor penetration talents or it becomes completely useless. In fact, some PTs who dont spec for the armor penetration, completely remove rail shot off their bar.

 

2 Buttons? lets see: TD, Rail Shot, Flame Burst, Rocket Punch, Unload, Flame thrower, Rapid Shots, Death from above, Carbonize, Dart, Quell, Energy Shield, IM, Grapple, EF, KO, TSO, Ven Heat, Stealth Scan, Determination, adrenals, relics. Yea they are not all used in a dps rotation, but all used during a game, some more often than others. You're telling me, I am doing it all wrong, and could just spam 2 buttons? lol

 

Exaggerated arguments never amount to much. In fact, they often backfire.

[Gidoru]

Sniper stay in cover to do 30 meters attacks, merc stay also 1.5 sec for tracers and powershots, sages have to stay on throw and turbulence, why powertech is an exception?

 

To be balanced in line PT needs serious reduction in armor penetration and 1.5 sec cast times at least on half of its 30 meters ranged abilities. If 4 meters abilities is instant it is ok, 10 meters instant is probably ok, but all 30 meters is instant is way OP. The same with armor penetration, if you look at marauder or dps guardian they have some armor penetration on close 4 meters abilities, but 100% armor penetration from 30 meters is also OP.

 

Let's look at dps guard it has 100% armor penetration on plasma brand with 9 sec cd and 4 meters range, but bladestorms with 10 meters range doesn't have armor penetration - this is balanced. But PT has 100% armor penetration on all abilities from 10 to 30 meters range.

 

lol im all for nerfing powertechs, but what you're proposing basically guts the class to the point its worse than almost every class in the game and invites trolls to pick apart your posts.

Just moving that one talent in advanced prototype up 2 tiers would reduce the armor pen on railshot from 90% to 30%. Which is probably good for a couple hundred damage reduction per railshot.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Gidoru

[xBloodcrazed]

Sticky grenade isn't used: replaced by assault plastique because of shared cooldown.

 

Explosive surge isn't used because it has very high ammo cost and little damage return, it is only used to prevent people from capping doors / points etc.

(Same with explosive round btw)

 

But yeah, all by all, troopers in general have pretty good aoe, mortar volley deals good damage, so does pulse cannon.

 

if you think a pyro wont use sticky when people are grouped up then you dont know much about the class.

hitting 5 people for 2k each is much better then 1 person for 4k.

 

its true a dps wont use explosive surge but any tank will cause it applies static field

[xBloodcrazed]

lol im all for nerfing powertechs, but what you're proposing basically guts the class to the point its worse than almost every class in the game and invites trolls to pick apart your posts.

Just moving that one talent in advanced prototype up 2 tiers would reduce the armor pen on railshot from 90% to 30%. Which is probably good for a couple hundred damage reduction per railshot.

 

the problem with that is the base damage of RS is balanced around armor pen and the 60% pen talent is used in every possible viable builds for this class. If we look at Mercs with high velocity cylinder it just reinforces the idea that its balanced around armor pen.

 

by moving the talent higher it makes it out of reach for all but an advanced prototype which very few people use and its not viable for pve or pvp. Therefore i feel that any changes to the 60% armor pen talent without a direct dmg buff to hib would prove to be too great of a change.

Edited June 3, 2012 by xBloodcrazed

[Retro_Chrome]

That would be an interesting way to go with Powertech. Keeping the damage output the same, but toning down the range would solve the problem.

 

i personally wouldnt mind this at all since i am 98% of the time within 4-10 meters of my target anyhow, although would make targeting mortar volley a bit tough since it has to be at least 3 meters away from me, aside from that id really wouldnt mind it although if they did that id like Gut from the tactics tree and stock strike to be increased to 10 meters that way we can really be the mid ranged class you want us to be

[Fdzzaigl]

if you think a pyro wont use sticky when people are grouped up then you dont know much about the class.

hitting 5 people for 2k each is much better then 1 person for 4k.

 

its true a dps wont use explosive surge but any tank will cause it applies static field

 

Yes, sticky grenade possibly has higher damage potential than assault plastique, though as an assault your job is to burst people down first and foremost. There are builds that forgo assault plastique for it however.

Personally, if I want an aoe build, I go for tactics anyhow, which I run most of the time now.

 

Don't try to berate me on a class that I play since day 1, you know full well assault doesn't use sticky grenade often, that's the spec we're talking about here.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Gidoru]

What the frak are you on about now... seriously...

 

First off, for the love of god, stop thinking you know stuff about our class better than people who have been playing it since launch.

1. So no one who has played a Bounty Hunter or Commando has ever suggested they are overpowered in any way or that they know how to play one? Pretty big assumption you have there.

2. So he should stop thinking he knows better because you're obviously the greatest player ever and an authority on BH and Commando? It doesnt take 6 months to learn to a class. It doesnt even take 1 week, so i fail to see how it matters that you have been playing since launch.

3. Congrats on accusing the OP of something you're doing yourself, thinking you know better. You could play 6 months and be the worst Powertech in this game, it doesnt mean you know better than someone who has been playing the class for a week and is infinitely better than you.

[Zunayson]

I don't know if this is trolling or people are absolutley that clueless. Railshot is weapon damage, subject to defense, shield and accuracy rating. Against a Jugg, tank assassin or even a Sentinel when he pops saber ward, my damage gets completely negated. Even snipers under cover will sometimes negate the damage completely from a railshot. For me to refresh my Railshot, I need to be within 10m of the target via flame burst and rocket punch. So the arguement that I can simply blow you up from a distance is invalid. People complaining about the dot refresh about flame burst and its damage, flame burst/ion pulse hits for at 50 and in full WH around 950-1k damage, crit for 1.5k. Anyone who dies to flameburst spam needs to stop pvping, because you are doing something quite wrong.

 

Energy shield is on a 2 minute cooldown, reduces damage by 25 percent. There is a talent that lowers the CD everytime you get attacked, but the drop is marginal. That's all the defensive capability we have. Kolto overload is a ~2kish heal over ten seconds.

 

Yes we wear heavy armor and with full WH I have 31 percent flat damage reduction. An operative in my guild has 29.51 percent. So that is really a tiny difference for an entire level of armor difference. We are one of the most squishy classes in the game.

 

And going back to reading other peoples posts, they are very ill informed about the class. Saying stick grenade/explosive dart can be used in tandem with thermal detenator/plastique, that's funny. Having flame burst be channeled, that was amusing as well.

 

It's marginal, is it? Every 1.5s, it's an additional 3 seconds (Assuming you're getting attacked, so in a 1v1, you would be getting attacked every gcd), so for every 1.5s normally it's actually 4.5. Its basically going on cooldown 3 times its normal speed, which is 40 seconds (Down from 120).

 

Tell me if I'm doing something wrong (I probably am), but if you're always getting attacked, that's a 40 second CD shield, but a normal 1v1 will be over by 6 seconds

[Gidoru]

It's marginal, is it? Every 1.5s, it's an additional 3 seconds (Assuming you're getting attacked, so in a 1v1, you would be getting attacked every gcd), so for every 1.5s normally it's actually 4.5. Its basically going on cooldown 3 times its normal speed, which is 40 seconds (Down from 120).

 

Tell me if I'm doing something wrong (I probably am), but if you're always getting attacked, that's a 40 second CD shield, but a normal 1v1 will be over by 6 seconds

 

Obviously Powertechs need energy shield to reset its cooldown every 6 seconds so that they can just run around 4 shotting everyone back to back and not dying.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Gidoru