Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

[TapSumBatt]

I'll give you the reason why Pyro PT has no activation (not cast time, thats WoW) time. Unlike other classes (except SW and Assassin, who guess what, have no activation times either) we need to be in 4-10 m range to be able to dish out any decent damage. Sniper has activation times because they have a 35m range. Merc has activation times because it has a 30m range.

 

Just because you had "cast times" in WoW doesn't mean PT needs to get them.

 

You don't really make a point. You can clearly see the difference between a good SW and a bad one, just as you can with a good SI and a bad one.

 

Your whining of WoW terminology doesn't really make a point against the fact that PT / Vanguard is by far the easiest class in the game to shine with. Thanks to their run & spam plays-style which is rewarded way too much.

 

Anyone can shine with a PT, I do it all the time

[JeffrenBrek]

You don't really make a point. You can clearly see the difference between a good SW and a bad one, just as you can with a good SI and a bad one.

 

Your whining of WoW terminology doesn't really make a point against the fact that PT / Vanguard is by far the easiest class in the game to shine with. Thanks to their run & spam plays-style which is rewarded way too much.

 

Anyone can shine with a PT, I do it all the time

 

You clearly did not read my post. Also you're saying Marauder is harder to play than PT, which is not factual.

[TapSumBatt]

You clearly did not read my post. Also you're saying Marauder is harder to play than PT, which is not factual.

 

I read your post alright, you just made a lousy point. I'm pretty sure that you just want to live in your tower of delusions that people who rolled PT / VG are simply the better players. I rolled a PT, clearly I'm better than the others... right?

 

That is clearly not case. In fact, it's obvious that the class is way too simple when anyone can roll it and outperform on damage with an insane ratio, using no timings, spamming until full of heat while hoping that Rail gun procs as often as humanly possible.

 

You can debate that all you want, I can throw out a challenge for those who wants to investigate to roll a PT themselves and see how long it takes them to maul every other class in damage. That PT's outperform EVERY other class for the regular guy is a fact. And lol, throw out a poll for people who play both Marauder and PT and ask them which one is harder... You wont be happy, that I can bet on.

[Dirtysolutions]

You clearly did not read my post. Also you're saying Marauder is harder to play than PT, which is not factual.

 

Well I Certainly think my Mara is a lot harder to paly and do good with than my PT.. wich really uses like what ...5 buttons?

[Twor]

Actually stock strike is the equivalent of Rocket Punch, which I accounted for. So your argument is invalid. As far as needing to close the gap to use your interrupt, that is also something you will do against a ranged class (excluding snipers of course) and not a melee class as most of the abilities of a melee class cannot be interrupted. So my argument that PT Pyro is a mid ranged class that will move in and out of all ranges and is not only a melee class remains valid.

 

*shrug* If you wish to take it that way and also ignore that every melee class has the means to keep you (as a pyro) in melee range once you are in it your theorycrafting (and its nothing more than that, try staying between 4 and 10meters for some time) is partially valid. You also asked in your original post explicitly if we used stockstrike so you didn't account for anything. I just answered your question.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Twor

[JeffrenBrek]

Well I Certainly think my Mara is a lot harder to paly and do good with than my PT.. wich really uses like what ...5 buttons?

 

Charge, Deadly Sabers, Battering Assault, Rupture, Annihilation, Basic Attack, Rupture - 6 Abilities.

 

IM, Rail Shot, Flame Burst, Rail Shot, TD, Unload, Rocket Punch, Rail Shot - 6 Abilities

 

Yours rotation is not that much longer. And don't start saying you forgot Ravage, Choke etc.

I did not include DFA, Flamethrower or anything else I frequently use. I'm talking about the usual rotation.

[Hethroin]

My Sentinel has 3 more buttons bound to the same 4 hotbars than my Vanguard. Those buttons are all defensive abilities that he Vanguard does not have an equivalent to.

 

Resource management on the vanguard is much harder and mistakes in management are much more costly. The sentinel is easier to frustrate using CC, but I would not call it "harder to play" because of this.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Qishari
quoted/replied to rude comment

[TapSumBatt]

That's all fine and dandy guys, still doesn't explain why any decent PT/VG will - if he's/she's trying - outperform other classes with hundreds of thousands damage.

 

But hey, that's just because they're much better players right? Guess I should go pro then since you obviously think I'm so awesome.

[Ewgal]

I agree actually, but they'll nerf it anyways due to all the bads (just read this thread) who don't understand the game, so I'd prefer they nerf it moderately rather than making us completely useless.

 

You're actually wrong. Instant cast plays with the global cool down rule. Adding a cast time, just reduces the dps by making it GCD plus whatever cast time.

 

Adding cast time to some Pyro abilities would be a great way to tone them down and would make them interruptible. Another option would be to make one of their core rotation abilities a channeled ability.

[Twor]

That's all fine and dandy guys, still doesn't explain why any decent PT/VG will - if he's/she's trying - outperform other classes with hundreds of thousands damage.

 

But hey, that's just because they're much better players right? Guess I should go pro then since you obviously think I'm so awesome.

 

Nope thats due to the fact that they are left alone so long and often. There are also enough threads with screenies where you have virtually any class outperforming the others. If you're a sorc and just tab dotting everything or spamming AoE near chokepoints you will also have huge numbers.

 

Tracer Mercs were outperforming everyone till players learned how easily they are countered. If you leave one alone he will still put out great damage as well.

[Twor]

You're actually wrong. Instant cast plays with the global cool down rule. Adding a cast time, just reduces the dps by making it GCD plus whatever cast time.

 

Adding cast time to some Pyro abilities would be a great way to tone them down and would make them interruptible. Another option would be to make one of their core rotation abilities a channeled ability.

 

Pyros are designed to not have many channeled abilities. Thats the whole point of the class. You might as well ask to remove stealth from ops.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Twor

[Hethroin]

That's all fine and dandy guys, still doesn't explain why any decent PT/VG will - if he's/she's trying - outperform other classes with hundreds of thousands damage.

 

But hey, that's just because they're much better players right? Guess I should go pro then since you obviously think I'm so awesome.

 

A pyro is a dps spec. It does damage. The same player on an equally geared sniper, or marauder, or concealment op will do similarly well. Minor point of note is that the pyro, by design, performs better than the other DPS against heavy armor and shields, so in a side by side comparison in a warzone full of heavy targets the pyro will out damage other DPS. The marauder (or sniper) , in turn, will out damage the pyro agaist a light-armor group.

 

Perhaps the "other classes" in your example should stop hybridizing defense and offense and maybe they too would do good damage.

[Roiz]

You're actually wrong. Instant cast plays with the global cool down rule. Adding a cast time, just reduces the dps by making it GCD plus whatever cast time.

 

Adding cast time to some Pyro abilities would be a great way to tone them down and would make them interruptible. Another option would be to make one of their core rotation abilities a channeled ability.

 

Cast time on rail shot and channeling on flame burst is great idea.

[LiveandDieinLA]

PTs are fine.

GIving them cast times like that goes against the way they are designed to function.

[Varicite]

If pyro is able to use strafe buttons and flame burst with auto slow to kite a marauder, PT always win. From my experience 90% of powertechs do not use strafe to kite mele they just stay in front trying to outdps marauder in 4 meter range and they loose. If marauder and PT played on skilled level PT win 90% of time.

 

This doesn't even make sense. A PYRO PT cannot kite a Marauder if he knows what he is doing. Same strength snare, but the Mara's is better uptime. Mara has a leap, and a PT can do NOTHING about it every 12 seconds. Period.

 

Then you add in cds like Obfuscate, Force Camo, Saber Ward, Cloak of Pain, and Undying Rage and this is a no-contest.

 

If they're missing cds, however, it's a pretty even fight. : )

[LiveandDieinLA]

This doesn't even make sense. A PYRO PT cannot kite a Marauder if he knows what he is doing. Same strength snare, but the Mara's is better uptime. Mara has a leap, and a PT can do NOTHING about it every 12 seconds. Period.

 

Then you add in cds like Obfuscate, Force Camo, Saber Ward, Cloak of Pain, and Undying Rage and this is a no-contest.

 

If they're missing cds, however, it's a pretty even fight. : )

 

Marauders are the counter to PT.

[TapSumBatt]

People saying adding any sort of activation to PT abilities are just defending bad game play (Most likely because they are very bad themselves and want to continue to live in the illusion that they are actually good.)

 

I suggested adding a new ability with activation and spread their damage there after. Mainly because I think none of their current core abilities are really suited for it.

 

* No way to interrupt = less skill.

 

* Cant be interrupted = less skill.

 

* LoS plays a minimal factor for PT/VG.

 

* They can kite any melee who doesn't have a gap closer ready while they can stay close to any range just due to nature of Combust Gas, which is something they don't have to apply, it will come automatically.

 

All this promotes bad game play and a very low skill cap.

 

PS. I'm not a hater of the class, I do however like when skilled players can be sorted out from the rubbish ones. Sure, rubbish will be rubbish, but mediocre and elite is the same thing when it comes to PT/VG.

Edited May 30, 2012 by TapSumBatt

[Varicite]

Marauders are the counter to PT.

 

Oh, I know, I was just stating that. : )

 

Definitely not complaining.

 

Besides, MY PT actually does kite Marauders, and kills them all day long because they have no clue how to fight me.

[Varicite]

People saying adding any sort of activation to PT abilities are just defending bad game play (Most likely because they are very bad themselves and want to continue to live in the illusion that they are actually good.)

 

I suggested adding a new ability with activation and spread their damage there after. Mainly because I think none of their current core abilities are really suited for it.

 

* No way to interrupt = less skill.

 

* Cant be interrupted = less skill.

 

* LoS plays a minimal factor for PT/VG.

 

* They can kite any melee who doesn't have a gap closer ready while they can stay close to any range just due to nature of Combust Gas, which is something they don't have to apply, it will come automatically.

 

All this promotes bad game play and a very low skill cap.

 

PS. I'm not a hater of the class, I do however like when skilled players can be sorted out from the rubbish ones. Sure, rubbish will be rubbish, but mediocre and elite is the same thing when it comes to PT/VG.

 

You do realize that NONE of the melee ACs are able to be interrupted during their main channels?

 

Warriors can't be interrupted from Ravage anymore.

 

Assassins can protect their Force Lightning channel.

 

Powertechs can protect their Flamethrower channel.

 

I don't think that Bioware would suddenly change their design philosophy and make PT depend on an interruptable channel for a main ability.

 

BTW, Pyro still uses Unload, which can be interrupted, as well as Death From Above.

[Roiz]

Oh, I know, I was just stating that. : )

 

Definitely not complaining.

 

Besides, MY PT actually does kite Marauders, and kills them all day long because they have no clue how to fight me.

 

Good testimony from PT player about how PT is overpowered, people have no clue how to beat it, let's BW make a nerf.

[Nemmar]

How are they immobile?

 

They have no cast attacks!

 

Hint: They need to be in melee range.

 

otherwise they cant reset the cd on rail shot

 

ranged abilities are only unload wich require them to stand still, one dot with weak upfront damage and rail shot wich does good damage but has a 15 sec cooldown. Rest is auto attack. If someone is dieing to this then perhaps they should be dieing. Marauders and their loads of damage are much worse imo.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Nemmar

[Twor]

People saying adding any sort of activation to PT abilities are just defending bad game play (Most likely because they are very bad themselves and want to continue to live in the illusion that they are actually good.)

 

I suggested adding a new ability with activation and spread their damage there after. Mainly because I think none of their current core abilities are really suited for it.

 

* No way to interrupt = less skill.

 

* Cant be interrupted = less skill.

 

* LoS plays a minimal factor for PT/VG.

 

* They can kite any melee who doesn't have a gap closer ready while they can stay close to any range just due to nature of Combust Gas, which is something they don't have to apply, it will come automatically.

 

All this promotes bad game play and a very low skill cap.

 

PS. I'm not a hater of the class, I do however like when skilled players can be sorted out from the rubbish ones. Sure, rubbish will be rubbish, but mediocre and elite is the same thing when it comes to PT/VG.

 

Maybe you should try and play a class that has no defenses to speak of before calling all players of it skilless.

 

Once you time your skills so that you have the 6 seconds internal CD memorized in your blood you will see it a bit different maybe. And don't use any of the skills that can trigger the internal reset even when HIP is available already. Its not atom physics but what you are saying is insulting and wrong.

[Varicite]

Good testimony from PT player about how PT is overpowered, people have no clue how to beat it, let's BW make a nerf.

 

Yeah, good testimony from a NON-PYRO Powertech. Keep trying.

 

I don't have 5k Rail Shots, or back-to-back Rail Shots, or Thermal Detonator, or any of the stuff that you people are complaining about, lol.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Varicite

[Osskscosco]

Pyros are designed to not have many channeled abilities. Thats the whole point of the class. You might as well ask to remove stealth from ops.

 

You know that merc can be pyro too, right?

 

1,5 secs power shot, channeled unload, 1,5 secs fusion missile.

[Hethroin]

Good testimony from PT player about how PT is overpowered, people have no clue how to beat it, let's BW make a nerf.

 

So Sorcs that die face tanking melees should be buffed due to their under performance?

 

I don't think BW will be changing PTs based on l2p issues with the marauder player base.

 

You know that merc can be pyro too, right?

1,5 secs power shot, channeled unload, 1,5 secs fusion missile.

Different classes are different. Merc's Rail--proc abilities are 30m range.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Hethroin