Thanks for the apology

[Leskit]

All of you need a serious life. Getting butthurt over something so simple is really stupid. Play the game or don't doesn't make a difference to the rest of us.

[Quikfox]

All of you need a serious life. Getting butthurt over something so simple is really stupid. Play the game or don't doesn't make a difference to the rest of us.

 

 

It'll make a difference when EA forces BioWare to shut down SWTOR if they lose countless subs over this and are unable to recover, word of mouth goes a long way these days.

 

And I wouldn't call this "simple" it's actually quite major in terms of Public Relations.

 

In terms of PR, for any company, you never make a statement about something being a fact and then retract it afterwards. When you do such things it makes you and your company look incompetent in the eyes of the consumer and thus costs you business and possibly your job. Yes you admitted you're wrong and how you will fix it but does that change the fact that you originally reported something as a fact without all of the information?

 

Another issue with the statement by the Developer is that they had another "Internal" investigation. As most know a lot a Customer Service jobs are outsourced, not anything new. However from what I gather from that wording is that the outsourced company also handles investigations, which is just outright wrong.

 

The reason it is wrong is because the investigation team on the contracted side will not risk giving information out that could possibly cause the loss of their contract, and put them out of a job they would likely lie and handle it internally. That should effectively mean that no investigation team should be outsourced due to the risk of possible corruption with requested information.

 

Who is to say that this isn't the only issue that was caused by some random CS but were never made as public as this one. There could actually be quite a bit more, but we may never know as it could have been covered up.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Quikfox

[onfireguy]

All of you need a serious life. Getting butthurt over something so simple is really stupid. Play the game or don't doesn't make a difference to the rest of us.

So, getting "butthurt" over something = need a serious life? lol, aren't you, in fact, butthurt that we are butthurt? And isn't your serious life posting comments in these butthurt threads that don't make a difference to you? Seriously?

[Oscibi]

So, getting "butthurt" over something = need a serious life? lol, aren't you, in fact, butthurt that we are butthurt? And isn't your serious life posting comments in these butthurt threads that don't make a difference to you? Seriously?

 

This......is just so win

[Gomex]

So, getting "butthurt" over something = need a serious life? lol, aren't you, in fact, butthurt that we are butthurt? And isn't your serious life posting comments in these butthurt threads that don't make a difference to you? Seriously?

 

Damn he just butthurted the butthurter

[maxetius]

So when the waiter at the eatery is rude and gives crappy service, once you complain and he's get fired, do you go back to the eatery and gloat to everyone in earshot?

 

lol internet.

[Quikfox]

So when the waiter at the eatery is rude and gives crappy service, once you complain and he's get fired, do you go back to the eatery and gloat to everyone in earshot?

 

lol internet.

 

You're example is a bit off so I'll fix it to make actual sense of the situation.

 

When a waiter at the eatery is rude and tells you that if you don't stop eating the way you are you're not allowed to be served there anymore. You complain to the manager and he tells you that no waiter said anything along that line and you can't eat there anymore because you've accused his staff of things they didn't do. A few days later the manager calls you up and says that after speaking with "other people" he was informed that the waiter did in fact mistreat you and you can now eat there again.

 

That is more along the lines of what happened using your eatery example.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Quikfox

[Timadan]

Damn I'm running out of popcorn!

[Niil]

They investigated, found no evidence to support the claim, and responded appropriately. We have no idea what they did or did not do in this regard, just that they investigated and found nothing to support the claim. They did mention logs in the post they made so obviously they did try to determine the truth in the matter.

 

They continued to investigate the matter and ultimately did find something, again what it was or what steps they took we have no idea. After finding evidence to support the claim they made a public post stating as such, made no effort to hide the fact, stated they would resolve the matter with the CS rep or GM that instigated the incident on their side. Then they publicly apologized, stating they were incorrect on their first search, then made the point they would be contacting those involved in the matter directly for further remediation.

 

What, exactly, is wrong with this situation? Aside from just trying to stir the pot that is.

[Talarchy]

I know people are worked up about this but it isn't totally unreasonable that:

 

-A Bioware CS rep made a judgement call and made the wrong one.

 

-The guy who had the job of parsing through all of the logs initially failed at his job.

 

I say this in part because I work for a software hosting company. ****'s complicated, people make mistakes. We have to give apologizes all the time for stuff we swore wasn't our fault and it turns out someone internally gave a bad analysis.

 

there is making mistakes, and there is "no we are not discussing this any further"

 

Power tripping much GM?

 

If a GM ever tells me I can't be somewhere on a PVP server, I will unsub my account before he finishes his sentence. I play SWTOR for open world PVP, simple as that. The second you take the open world part of it out, I have no reason to play this game.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Talarchy

[Niil]

there is making mistakes, and there is "no we are not discussing this any further"

 

Power tripping much GM?

 

Their forums, their call. Letting a discussion occur that they (incorrectly determined to be false) that directly slanders the company and one of their GM's on their forums is not something they should let happen, especially if they've (incorrectly) determined that claim to be false. They did the right thing here. They admitted they were wrong. They didn't try to cover up the truth after they determined the claim to be true. Not having further discussion on the topic is, again, expected per their TOS.

[kninekaji]

They investigated, found no evidence to support the claim, and responded appropriately. We have no idea what they did or did not do in this regard, just that they investigated and found nothing to support the claim. They did mention logs in the post they made so obviously they did try to determine the truth in the matter..

 

So breaking your own TOS and discussing actions taken against players on a open forum is "responding appropriately"? BW in no way shape or form handled this properly, and anyone with any business sense agrees with this. You never ever slander customers (or partners or whatever) unless you are 110% sure you are correct, unless you enjoy being viewed as incompetent .

 

They continued to investigate the matter and ultimately did find something, again what it was or what steps they took we have no idea. After finding evidence to support the claim they made a public post stating as such, made no effort to hide the fact, stated they would resolve the matter with the CS rep or GM that instigated the incident on their side. Then they publicly apologized, stating they were incorrect on their first search, then made the point they would be contacting those involved in the matter directly for further remediation.

 

They continued to investigate the matter because more and more people surfaced with raw images of the occurance, not because they were trying to be thorough or provide some kind of service, it was a reactive response to cover there butts incase more additional information surfaced. What happens if a video popped up before their secondary and tertiary "investigation" found the event to be true?

 

What, exactly, is wrong with this situation? Aside from just trying to stir the pot that is.

 

Learn to read without your BW blinders on. See below.

 

Well they're well on their way lol. Just looking at this it is just an all around fail and a PR nightmare for Bioware/EA just when I thought they couldn't surprise me and come off as any more unprofessional and inexperienced than they were before. First you have an incompetent GM that has no idea what he is doing making threats against players accounts for playing the game how it was meant to be played. Then you have an incompetent forum moderator breaking their own rules(when it is their job to enforce them ironically) by talking about actions taken against players, in a public forum at that, as well as publicly naming and incidentally slandering certain players in the process. Then you have the incompetence of the "investigation teams" that took multiple investigations(and multiple teams?) to simply find out what a SINGLE GM was up to? What if he had banned the players involved? That would have been even worse because they would then have to compensate the players effected that couldn't log in after being wrongfully banned all while Bioware fumbles around trying to find out what their own people are doing.

 

Now can you please keep your biased opinions out of this thread, it only makes the BW Cool Aid ring around your lips more obvious.

Edited May 29, 2012 by kninekaji

[Quikfox]

Their forums, their call.

 

You clearly haven't read the entire issue at hand base on that statement have you?

Edited May 29, 2012 by Quikfox

[kninekaji]

Their forums, their call. Letting a discussion occur that they (incorrectly determined to be false) that directly slanders the company and one of their GM's on their forums is not something they should let happen, especially if they've (incorrectly) determined that claim to be false. They did the right thing here. They admitted they were wrong. They didn't try to cover up the truth after they determined the claim to be true. Not having further discussion on the topic is, again, expected per their TOS.

 

So gathering more information is a bad thing? Closing the original thread was the worst thing they did as it limited the amount of information they could get on the issue (and also made it appear they were trying to hide soemthing to those involved since we KNEW the event occured as we were there), which probably could of helped the investigation of the issue.

 

You seem to think they did everything they could once they were aware of the issue, but I digress as I actually sent private messages to the GM while he was on line telling us to leave. I used this information when I opened a trouble ticket right after it happened. I then told the CS rep that picked up my trouble ticket the exact time and message that I sent to the GM when he was online. A simple search of my chat log would of proved the event factual. Glad they put so much effort into the matter.

 

There are other factors that played into the way the moderator responded that I will not discuss.

Edited May 29, 2012 by kninekaji

[Niil]

So breaking your own TOS and discussing actions taken against players on a open forum is "responding appropriately"? BW in no way shape or form handled this properly, and anyone with any business sense agrees with this. You never ever slander customers (or partners or whatever) unless you are 110% sure you are correct.

 

They didn't state what action was being taken against those people. They just said they were being actioned against. Stating the name of the person wasn't revealing anything new as the person in question was the OP in the thread. Their policy is that they won't reveal what action is being taken. They didn't do that.

 

They continued to investigate the matter because more and more people surfaced with raw images of the occurance, not because they were trying to be thorough or provide some kind of service, it was a reactive response to cover there butts incase more additional information surfaced. What happens if a video popped up before their secondary and tertiary "investigation" found the event to be true?

 

You assume why they continued to look into the matter, when the reality is you have no idea. I have no idea. And to be completely honest it doesn't make any difference why they continued to look into it. They did. If you believe they did it to cover themselves, that's your prerogative to believe. Your opinion of why they did what they did isn't relevant.

 

Learn to read without your BW blinders on. See below.

 

Now can you please keep your biased opinions out of this thread, it only makes the BW Cool Aid ring around your lips more obvious.

 

Obviously you're on the Bioware hate train rampaging through here. Nothing in the quote had any bearing on my opinion of the matter. I've read it all before. And this is a forum where I'm free to share my opinions. You are not a moderator. I will post where and when I please.

 

You clearly haven't read the entire issue at hand base on that statement have you?

 

There were people complaining about a variety of places they wanted to discuss the matter, whether it be in game or on the forums. We already know the GM in question was not acting on behalf of Bioware, or should I say he was acting in their name against their own policies. Of course he wasn't going to discuss the matter with them. To think your opinion holds any water whatsoever in this thread is silly. My comment very explicitly discussed their actions stamping out continued discussion over the incident here....on the forums...where people were crying about threads getting closed and additional discussion shut down.

[OpenSorce]

I hope all the members of that OPs group are seeking legal advice. I STRONGLY recommend it!

[Niil]

So gathering more information is a bad thing? Closing the original thread was the worst thing they did as it limited the amount of information they could get on the issue (and also made it appear they were trying to hide soemthing to those involved since we KNEW the event occured as we were there), which probably could of helped the investigation of the issue.

 

You seem to think they did everything they could once they were aware of the issue, but I digress as I actually sent private messages to the GM while he was on line telling us to leave. I used this information when I opened a trouble ticket right after it happened. I then told the CS rep that picked up my trouble ticket the exact time and message that I sent to the GM when he was online. A simple search of my chat log would of proved the event factual. Glad they put so much effort into the matter.

 

There are other factors that played into the way the moderator responded that I will not discuss.

 

Forum threads on the matter are absolutely a bad thing. As in any real life investigation of events that go wrong, looking into events such as that are not done in the public eye. Those events occur behind closed doors with the parties involved, not in a public forum. You presume they tried to hide something, when they could have very easily denied everything and let things as they stood when they did find the truth of the matter. You and your friends are a miniscule drop in the bucket that 99.9% of people probably wouldn't care about or even know existed if they chose to follow this route. They did not. This is simply the way adults/businesses handle delicate matters that could result in PR disasters. There's absolutely nothing a public forum thread could add to things that they didn't already have from the content of the thread and what their own continued internal investigation eventually revealed. It could, however, turn into an even worse public debacle for them than it did. It's simply damage control.

 

You did the right thing in putting in a ticket. But the reality is the GM probably escalated the issue to his boss, and his boss probably escalated it further up the chain. That takes time. We don't actually have the information that lead them to believing the claim was false or even the person that decided to make that final determination. We also don't know if the GM tried to cover his tracks in any way and whether he/she could alter the logs. There's simply too much we don't know about what happened behind the scenes, and to be fair it's none of our business. We have the name of the person who posted their first incorrect conclusion on the forums. Nothing more. Considering it's a holiday weekend, they probably called people in to make the final call on the matter. I don't have the information at hand to ascertain what they could and couldn't do at each step of the investigation. Neither do you. I get you're upset. But this thread serves no purpose at all, other than to draw attention to something that' cannot be changed. As a company they've admitted the actions of one of their employees was out of line. They've stated their intent to resolve the issue with people involved. The reality is anything more than a public apology and whoever that guy is that abused his GM power getting reprimanded or potentially terminated is just bonus.

[Niil]

<edited out because a moderator removed the post>

 

Whether you agree with me or not isn't important. They did so for the reasons I stated, similar to the way any other business handles issues like these including every other mmo I've ever played and every other business I've dealt with in my life when issues happen with employees who do not act appropriately on behalf of their company. And you could get hundreds of emails and it would still be an insignificant number of players in the overall. It doesn't change the fact that Bioware did shut the thread down and the expectation that they were going to leave it open was naive at best. Whether you approve of me posting here is, again, not relevant.

 

Edit: Not sure if the post was removed or you chose to remove it. Either way, I'm not begrudging you that you're upset about the situation. You have a right to be. I'm not condoning what happened to you. I'm simply objectively looking at the situation. I honestly can't see a situation where you're going to be happy with the way things have been done, and that's expected. I'm not telling you that you're wrong to be upset.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Niil

[filipesantana]

lol...

[Aurrelio]

Hi.

 

A number of posts have been removed from this thread because the rudeness and hostility was getting a bit out of control. Please maintain a civil and respectful tone when participating in discussions on this forum.

 

If you feel like another community member is being disrespectful or disruptive, please remember to flag that user's posts, rather than fighting with them.

 

Thanks.

[kiroshei]

Whether you agree with me or not isn't important. They did so for the reasons I stated, similar to the way any other business handles issues like these including every other mmo I've ever played and every other business I've dealt with in my life when issues happen with employees who do not act appropriately on behalf of their company. And you could get hundreds of emails and it would still be an insignificant number of players in the overall. It doesn't change the fact that Bioware did shut the thread down and the expectation that they were going to leave it open was naive at best. Whether you approve of me posting here is, again, not relevant.

 

I think Bioware should hire you since you seem to know everything they do and why they do it. I'll be sure to send an email in for you. Brush up your resume and thank you for your contributions.

 

Hi.

 

A number of posts have been removed from this thread because the rudeness and hostility was getting a bit out of control. Please maintain a civil and respectful tone when participating in discussions on this forum.

 

If you feel like another community member is being disrespectful or disruptive, please remember to flag that user's posts, rather than fighting with them.

 

Thanks.

 

Thank you Aurrelio. I'll try to refrain from responding to that specific person in the future.

Edited May 29, 2012 by kiroshei

[nonoffensivename]

Had to reply to this thread,

 

first off kiroshei and other members of your affected team I know they called you and apologized but seemingly how blatantly they disregarded your problem and how well and respectful you are with them I want to know what did you get as compensation?

 

I think I know who got the real life sized Malgus :}

 

nah all serious... what did you get as compensation? Your tones on your emails changed 180 degrees and I dont think a phonecall did it.

Edited May 29, 2012 by nonoffensivename

[Niil]

I think Bioware should hire you since you seem to know everything they do and why they do it. I'll be sure to send an email in for you. Brush up your resume and thank you for your contributions.

 

Thank you Aurrelio. I'll try to refrain from responding to that specific person in the future.

 

It's not specific to Bioware, as I mentioned. Most businesses in general will handle things like this behind closed doors. They're certainly not going to deal with things like this publicly, nor will they make details of the incident public after the fact. It's just a common business practice.

 

I guess I just don't get what the point of this thread is. Obviously you're venting, it's expected. But aside from that where do you expect to go with it?

[aspectre]

I like how the guys who were actually put out by this are completely satisfied with the outcome, yet people are still complaining.

 

I guess a CS rep should be calling everyone who subscribes to the game to apologize? Would that make everyone happy?

[kninekaji]

It's not specific to Bioware, as I mentioned. Most businesses in general will handle things like this behind closed doors. They're certainly not going to deal with things like this publicly, nor will they make details of the incident public after the fact. It's just a common business practice.

 

I guess I just don't get what the point of this thread is. Obviously you're venting, it's expected. But aside from that where do you expect to go with it?

 

So my analysis was assumptions, but yours is spot on? I'm sure BW would of liked to handle this "behind closed doors" which is why they ended up closing all the threads opened about it. However, they should of made absolutely sure they were in the right before doing so and calling customers frauds.

 

I made this thread prior to getting a personal apology from BW, and the reason I made it is so that others are aware of what happened, sorry it threatens the game you seem to want to protect.