Lheim Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'm just thinking, here. I seriously don't think any game based on the same model - subscription fees, with gameplay padded out by the hunt for low-drop rate character power that is continually devalued even as you receive it .. can compete with WoW. WoW's got that market cornered, and let's face it, I think any new MMO that is going to come out has to consider how to woo the people who are disaffected with that model, instead of trying to reach the loyal WoWers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voriand Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'm just thinking, here. I seriously don't think any game based on the same model - subscription fees, with gameplay padded out by the hunt for low-drop rate character power that is continually devalued even as you receive it .. can compete with EQ. EQ's got that market cornered, and let's face it, I think any new MMO that is going to come out has to consider how to woo the people who are disaffected with that model, instead of trying to reach the loyal EQers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spellegren Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'm just thinking, here. I seriously don't think any game based on the same model - subscription fees, with gameplay padded out by the hunt for low-drop rate character power that is continually devalued even as you receive it .. can compete with EQ. EQ's got that market cornered, and let's face it, I think any new MMO that is going to come out has to consider how to woo the people who are disaffected with that model, instead of trying to reach the loyal EQers. I see what you did there, but have to point out that no other MMO has had comparable commercial success, in the North American market, since WoW. Probably a few have in the Asian market, but that playerbase is quite different from ours. SWTOR is failing faster then Warhammer did, and that isn't a coincidence. Fluff games with little true challenge or depth will continue to fail, players really do want meat if they are expected to pay a monthly fee to play. They don't even need to do weekly maintenance, the servers aren't even getting a work out with active player numbers down so low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lheim Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) I see what you did there, but have to point out that no other MMO has had comparable commercial success, in the North American market, since WoW. Probably a few have in the Asian market, but that playerbase is quite different from ours. Well, this is the thing. I've got no compunction admitting the gear-grind model has been valid for a very long time - but it is showing signs of weakness, first in WoW's own lessening user base, and in the failure of MMOs that have tried to ape the model. But seriously, let's face it. Even WoW - with the introduction of LFR in particular, is taking a huge step away from the 'grind' model. It'll survive by transforming .. starting, dare I say it, with.. the addition of pokemon? I mean, non-grindy things to do. Edited May 22, 2012 by Lheim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tloops Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 i would say that they are dead, i grinded gear for 4 years in WoW,and cant bring myself to do that same grind in this game. its just not fun anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The only end game model worth the name is that of a large three faction open field faction versus faction pvp model where you have actual consequences to what happens. The MMO genre needs a game that is a spiritual sequel to Daoc. Elder Scrolls Online sounds like it is trending that way with ex-Daoc dev Matt Firor heading it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyla Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Not being able to compete with WoW numbers doesn't mean this kind of MMOs is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lheim Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Not being able to compete with WoW numbers doesn't mean this kind of MMOs is dead. No, but the failure of every MMO launched since WoW to hold users.. Edited May 22, 2012 by Lheim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyla Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) No, but the failure of every MMO launched since WoW to hold users.. The problem imo isn't that genre of MMO but the bad implementation of the said genre by all thoses MMOs. I like TOR, I won't leave soon but they failed on some many things, it's normal many people left or aren't happy. Edited May 22, 2012 by Nyla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spellegren Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The MMO genre needs a game that is a spiritual sequel to Daoc. Elder Scrolls Online sounds like it is trending that way with ex-Daoc dev Matt Firor heading it up. From your lips to the MMO deities ears. Give me meaningful, open world, 3 faction PVP and I'll give you my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lheim Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) The problem imo isn't that genre of MMO but the bad implementation of the said genre by all thoses MMOs. I like TOR, I won't leave soon but they failed on some many things, it's normal many people left or aren't happy. It's true, MMOs released in the last .. lord, 8 years? Have been lacking on some pretty basic user-friendly features. Even WoW had a basic LFG channel to start. However, TOR is .. shall we say, an order of magnitude more visible. If it fails to be profitable on a huge scale, we won't see another based on the same idea. Edited May 22, 2012 by Lheim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyla Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 It's true, MMOs released in the last .. lord, 8 years? Have been lacking on some pretty basic user-friendly features. Even WoW had a basic LFG channel to start. However, TOR is .. shall we say, an order of magnitude more visible. If it fails to be profitable on a huge scale, we won't see another based on the same idea. I'm not sure because we, players, see the default but devs and designers too and btw, the big one is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) I see what you did there, but have to point out that no other MMO has had comparable commercial success, in the North American market, since WoW. Probably a few have in the Asian market, but that playerbase is quite different from ours. SWTOR is failing faster then Warhammer did, and that isn't a coincidence. Fluff games with little true challenge or depth will continue to fail, players really do want meat if they are expected to pay a monthly fee to play. They don't even need to do weekly maintenance, the servers aren't even getting a work out with active player numbers down so low. That is a LIE. War lost 40% by the end of month 1 and 75% by month 4 Swtor lost 25% by month 4. Huge difference. Also Warhammer even with its low pop ( under 10k) still isnt f2p. Also swtor still has 1 million players 4 months. ,WAR never had even 1 million Edited May 22, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddzball Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 That is a LIE. War lost 40% by the end of month 1 and 75% by month 4 Swtor lost 25% by month 4. Huge difference. Also Warhammer even with its low pop ( under 10k) still isnt f2p. Also swtor still has 1 million players 4 months. ,WAR never had even 1 million Um No, thats is a lie. SWTOR lost 40% by the end of month 4. 2.4 million sold, only ~1.3 million still subbed. It lost 25% in quarter 2 and ~15% didnt resub from free 30 days. People need to learn to read past the spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Um No, thats is a lie. SWTOR lost 40% by the end of month 4. 2.4 million sold, only ~1.3 million still subbed. It lost 25% in quarter 2 and ~15% didnt resub from free 30 days. People need to learn to read past the spin. that would be a correction not a lie still it has the best retention rate of any post wow mmo and still much better then war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Um No, thats is a lie. SWTOR lost 40% by the end of month 4. 2.4 million sold, only ~1.3 million still subbed. It lost 25% in quarter 2 and ~15% didnt resub from free 30 days. People need to learn to read past the spin. source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 They sold 2.4 million boxes. 2.4 million box sales does not equal 2.4 million subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 That is a LIE. War lost 40% by the end of month 1 and 75% by month 4 Swtor lost 25% by month 4. Huge difference. Also Warhammer even with its low pop ( under 10k) still isnt f2p. Also swtor still has 1 million players 4 months. ,WAR never had even 1 million I concur with this statement and some people love to twist the truth. Doesn't make you wonder who some of these people work for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I concur with this statement and some people love to twist the truth. Doesn't make you wonder who some of these people work for Funy how they stop posting once they get called on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criosdh Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The only end game model worth the name is that of a large three faction open field faction versus faction pvp model where you have actual consequences to what happens. The MMO genre needs a game that is a spiritual sequel to Daoc. Elder Scrolls Online sounds like it is trending that way with ex-Daoc dev Matt Firor heading it up. COULD NOT FRIGGIN' AGREE MORE. Why DAoC is the one uber successful old school MMO that HAS NOT been ripped off yet is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 From your lips to the MMO deities ears. Give me meaningful, open world, 3 faction PVP and I'll give you my money. Except many MMO players don't care much for PVP. For the MMO player base, PVP is considered the minority compared to PVE. So PVP'ers saying that PVE gear-grinding is dead is a little hollow. If one of these companies figures out how to make a MMO that effectively incorporates PVE and PVP, then they'll make a killing. Most of the time, the two groups seem to be at odds and changes to address PVE or PVP gameplay always seem to negatively impact the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediZenn Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Blizzard just released D3. While not a "MMO" (basically is IMO), and with no sub fees. its still a generic "gear grind" game. Boardlands - Just another gear grind game. Gear grind games have been around a LONG time, they aren't gonna disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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