Kourage Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 That's just what we need. Bounty Hunters rolling need on Inquisitor gear so they can boost their item level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandax Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I wonder - what's the mechanic today that prevents somebody from being invited and why the same can't be done with a LFG tool? Don't like somebody or their equipment - then kick them from the group. Or try to form up the old fashioned way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fomore Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Where is the info on the no gear check. Cause i could not make out of watching the vid if gear would be checked or not. so link pls else just some unguided negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuzt Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Does it matter ? you can do pretty much anything in this game naked. Besides if you tell BW you know damn well its going to set the patch back 4 month just for the gear check option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) That's just what we need. Bounty Hunters rolling need on Inquisitor gear so they can boost their item level. Maybe they could code it to match your AC? Edited May 22, 2012 by Galbatorrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 You are just LOOKING for this avenue to open up so you can unload with all your irrational stereotypes and setup you strawmen to brow beat anyone who disagrees with you. The fact is there are gear gates in this game. Its a design choice that was made by the developers. You and others chose to play a game that has this as a core design principle yet look to bash players who are worried that a LFG tool might no take into consideration said gear gates. This isnt "Elitist". This isnt anti social. This is the way the game is designed. Really? Please Bioware don't make the fatal mistake of trying to make the bads happy. Sounds pretty "Elitist" to me. Implying that the "bads" will have bad gear and ruin all the groups sounds suspiciously "Eliteist" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I wonder - what's the mechanic today that prevents somebody from being invited and why the same can't be done with a LFG tool? Don't like somebody or their equipment - then kick them from the group. Or try to form up the old fashioned way. Thats the thing. If the LFG tool screens, then its NOT arbitrary. The developers would know better than anyone else what gear requirements are need to complete content at the set tuning. Either you meet x requirement or you dont. Its really a simple concept and I just cant understand why some argue against something that is inherent to the core design and progression in the game. There is no logic here on the part of those speaking out against standardized gear checks by the LFG tool. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyr Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) without a gear check, the LFG just simply won't be used, because LFG-made groups won't complete any of the content and people will quickly tire of wasting their time with it. we don't know what the final product will be like, but given past examples of half-measures and shortcuts that this dev team takes for literally everything, i would be very very surprised if the tool somehow knew that a fresh 50 with level 45 blues and greens is not ready to tackle KP. and to the people that say it's elitest to suggest that anyone isn't ready for the content, grow up. if you weren't ready at level 45 to beat Soa, you're not ready at level 50 wearing level 45 gear. it's the way videogames work - you don't get to skip to the end before you're ready. and in an mmo, "ready" means you have the appropriate gear. but by all means, form your LFG groups with everyone wearing greens and go smash your faces into the Rancor for several hours without coming close to beating him. i suppose it'd be elitest to do otherwise, because it's all about skill right? enrage timers are a myth! or maybe they're a mechanic specifically designed to prevent undergeared people from completing the end-game content... Edited May 22, 2012 by codyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Really? Sounds pretty "Elitist" to me. Implying that the "bads" will have bad gear and ruin all the groups sounds suspiciously "Eliteist" to me. Its pretty elitist to assume someone is being elitist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Really? Sounds pretty "Elitist" to me. Implying that the "bads" will have bad gear and ruin all the groups sounds suspiciously "Eliteist" to me. Its a strawman. You are just waiting to make this about some random "elitist" and not about what the discussion is really about. You are no better then the idiots running around calliung people "bads" Its has no bearing on the legitimacy of the reasoning behind making sure people in a random group that are grouped by a tool meet a basic minimum requirement to complete the content. It fly's in the face of the very reasoning for having the tool in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 without a gear check, the LFG just simply won't be used, because LFG-made groups won't complete any of the content and people will quickly tire of wasting their time with it. we don't know what the final product will be like, but given past examples of half-measures and shortcuts that this dev team takes for literally everything, i would be very very surprised if the tool somehow knew that a fresh 50 with level 45 blues and greens is not ready to tackle KP. and to the people that say it's elitest to suggest that anyone isn't ready for the content, grow up. if you weren't ready at level 45 to beat Soa, you're not ready at level 50 wearing level 45 gear. it's the way videogames work - you don't get to skip to the end before you're ready. and in an mmo, "ready" means you have the appropriate gear. but by all means, form your LFG groups with everyone wearing greens and go smash your faces into the Rancor for several hours without coming close to beating him. i suppose it'd be elitest to do otherwise, because it's all about skill right? enrage timers are a myth! or maybe they're a mechanic specifically designed to prevent undergeared people from completing the end-game content... Exactly. The people arguing against it just look silly. Its the way the game is designed. The casual/bad elitist/hardcore nonsense is just a crutch and strawman. Anyone bringing that up as a legit point in this conversation is full of doo doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchied Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Interesting thread so far.... i do have a suggestion though for anyone looking for groups... Once in a while, I grab 3 or 4 guildies, we are all gear and cleared all the content... then grab 4 Pugs... and take them thru story EV/KP to get them some gear! Ya, there is wipes, and ya sometimes you dont finish the run... but god forbid you make some new friends helping the fresh 50's gear up! Maybe it'sjust me, but Id rather wipe a few times being constructive, than sitting on fleet complaining I can't find a group in Rakata to do Black Talon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Its a strawman. You are just waiting to make this about some random "elitist" and not about what the discussion is really about. You are no better then the idiots running around calliung people "bads" Its has no bearing on the legitimacy of the reasoning behind making sure people in a random group that are grouped by a tool meet a basic minimum requirement to complete the content. It fly's in the face of the very reasoning for having the tool in the first place. I see, so what is the discussion really about? Is it about how if there was an automated aspect to the new LFG tool that kept ill-equipped players from queuing up for groups they're not ready for and how nobody would really have a problem with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Interesting thread so far.... i do have a suggestion though for anyone looking for groups... Once in a while, I grab 3 or 4 guildies, we are all gear and cleared all the content... then grab 4 Pugs... and take them thru story EV/KP to get them some gear! Ya, there is wipes, and ya sometimes you dont finish the run... but god forbid you make some new friends helping the fresh 50's gear up! Maybe it'sjust me, but Id rather wipe a few times being constructive, than sitting on fleet complaining I can't find a group in Rakata to do Black Talon Agree with this. It, however, has nothing to do with whether this tool should have a minimum gear requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchied Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Agree with this. It, however, has nothing to do with whether this tool should have a minimum gear requirement. True...... and my apologies..... but think if people helped out the fresh 50's just a little more... LFG tool would not need to be so full of features... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Some people might truly be elitist and shun the less geared. However, I am not elitist but I only have a few hours every couple of days to play and would love to use the LFG tool when quildies aren't available. I also don't want to bang my head against the wall wasting time because someone grouped for content that they don't have the gear for. I'm not saying they are bad but they need to grind the dailies and taral V and possibly story EV before trying to do the harder FPs and OPs. Its the same thing that I and many others had to do. I have helped gear many players in my guild and server and dont mind helping anyone who asks and would never turn away a group from the LFG tool however, I would try to get the group to do something else to help the less geared player. Now that is asking alot from potentially 2 others that dont want/need whatever lower level FP we would need to run and I would understand if they dropped. You cant hate on players just because they dont want to waste time doing something that even if they can complete it will take twice as long and be twice as expensive (repair bills). A logical post.. something I could support. I am no Elitist.. quite the opposite, but I like to try things out on my toons and I like to run all content where and when its possible. That said I know my limitations and dont just blindly apply to join any grp unless I am confident I am up for the challenge.. if not I simply take time to correct dificiencies whether it be in my build, my gear or even my playstyle for a particular raid..... however I think that players applying to join a HM .. especially ones generally reagrded as NO GO ZONES for the feint heared, need to take a long look at what it is they are hoping to achieve from the experiende and.. what they expect to do to achieve it.. there wont be any hiding places so if your not ready why apply, do you want - a - high repetition of the quest / raid , getting no where each time - not sure others will thank you for this! b - just using the LFM tool to have casual gameplay in a high if not highest level quest/ raid.... hmmm c - testing your build, even though your still wearing standard coloured modded gear... reality check may be reqd. d - Completion is A MUST!.... then you seriously need to plan for it.. otherwise your wasting other players time and effort... they are not there to hand hold anybody and why should they. If you want to learn it, get a few friends, guildies or randoms and explain its purely a trial run or runs to see what's need! LFM's are imo a good community tool though I am not all for the gear check option, but understand that in SWTOR the end game is tiered in such a way that it really becomes more about your gear you have accumulated along the way as a reward for your time and effort getting prepared for future content... Lets be honest there is no ENDGAME as such more a staging area where players are shttled in order to prepare for the next release of contnet - its actually a MEANS TO AN ENDGAME... and its your responsibility to aquire the MEANS to get to play in the ENDGAMES. In case some players didnt know there is already a gear checking tool in game and the higher up your levels you go and the more Heroic 4's and Fp'S you run, the likelyhood is you have probably already been scanned by unpteen players... it does not mean they are ELITISTS or jerks, though both are possibilities in any MMO tbh, it simply means they are trying to achieve a goal in asdrama free way possible and maybe in a timeframe they have allowed. But like any tool, whether it be LFM's / LFG, X-Server tooling etc etc.. there will always be some that want to prove their E-Peen granted... but that is why you have/ignore or even a friends list.. simiilarly if there is no gear check and players dont want to use the one already in game, they will gradually weed out players who repeatedly mess their raids up de poor gearing choices , jerkish behavior from the Pugger side. Of course there is other options.. guild only runs, chanel runs etc.. then the LFM becomes undervalued anyway. Edited May 22, 2012 by Bloodstealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I see, so what is the discussion really about? Is it about how if there was an automated aspect to the new LFG tool that kept ill-equipped players from queuing up for groups they're not ready for and how nobody would really have a problem with that? You have no problem with level gating. You are just bringing some tired arguments over elitists vs bads. You have been ryting to steer this thread down that path from its inception because that strawman is the only thing you have. The game is full of gates. Level gates. Crafting Gates. Pvp Gates Gear Gates Hell, even social points are a gate. Thats how these games are developed yet some of you dont like them. The gorup that follows along and understands said gates are somehow elitist and selfish yet the person who doesnt want to follow the principles of the game is somehow this righteous players who is being picked on by the big bad meanie elitists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 You have no problem with level gating. You are just bringing some tired arguments over elitists vs bads. You have been ryting to steer this thread down that path from its inception because that strawman is the only thing you have. The game is full of gates. Level gates. Crafting Gates. Pvp Gates Gear Gates Hell, even social points are a gate. Thats how these games are developed yet some of you dont like them. The gorup that follows along and understands said gates are somehow elitist and selfish yet the person who doesnt want to follow the principles of the game is somehow this righteous players who is being picked on by the big bad meanie elitists. I was actually the first one in the thread to mention level gating and that I'd have no problem with it.. I was still attacked by elitists who proceeded to tell me that since they couldn't do EV storymode in green gear that it was impossible to do and groups shouldn't let players in green gear hold them back. That's elitism. It's also incredibly incorrect, but that's a different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimixes Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Lmao...see..see This is what you get. Whats next? Gearscore? DBM? Threat meter? bla bla oh...achievements.. Only things to exclude people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 "There are no bad characters, only bad players." A player who knows how to play is far more important, effective, and fun than an idiot spec'd to the latest flavor of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDcaptain Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 forget gear check, bolster the stats like its done in WZs, the lfg tool shud do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) You have no problem with level gating. You are just bringing some tired arguments over elitists vs bads. You have been ryting to steer this thread down that path from its inception because that strawman is the only thing you have. The game is full of gates. Level gates. Crafting Gates. Pvp Gates Gear Gates Hell, even social points are a gate. Thats how these games are developed yet some of you dont like them. The gorup that follows along and understands said gates are somehow elitist and selfish yet the person who doesnt want to follow the principles of the game is somehow this righteous players who is being picked on by the big bad meanie elitists. To be fair those kind of players exist and others may have fallen foul of that behavioural trait before so they see anything high level/ endgame etc as ELITIST only territory... in SWTOR I think the way the quests/raids are tiered around gearing requirements will soon open those players eyes to how it becomes a nesessity .. that unfortunately often takes many failed runs and question marks before they too start to be more picky about who or what is required in their make up. Bottom line is simple though... if you choose to advertise and take it on, then you have the right to accept or refuse any who apply.... if they are unhappy about being refused its simple... set your own LFM up and run it... then maybe they will understand its not so much the jerks that are cruel, but actually the game itself can be cruel Then again... no PAIN, no GAIN ! Edited May 22, 2012 by Bloodstealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 forget gear check, bolster the stats like its done in WZs, the lfg tool shud do that Or better yet, just get rid of gear all together. Then we won't have to run instances or ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilosoldier Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I was actually the first one in the thread to mention level gating and that I'd have no problem with it.. I was still attacked by elitists who proceeded to tell me that since they couldn't do EV storymode in green gear that it was impossible to do and groups shouldn't let players in green gear hold them back. That's elitism. It's also incredibly incorrect, but that's a different issue. You are still making this about elitists vs casuals. Its so transparent. Elitists and your perception of them have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with this. Bioware developed and tuned the content with minimum gear requirements for completion. Thats how a level based gear progression designed and developed game works. Having a tool, designed by the same developers, set the standard actually REMOVES the human aspects of players policing the gear gate them selves thus avoiding much of the drama and hard feelings. The requirement is there for anyone to see. Want to do "X" content, this is what you need to do gear wise to run said content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 forget gear check, bolster the stats like its done in WZs, the lfg tool shud do that I hope this was a joke.. You really want to trivialise endgame content just so you can avoid building your toon up and gearing it appropriately... okies... any more EZ modes or buttons you care to request! Please say this was a joke... otherwise toon names and server please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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