No Gear Check in the LFG tool?

[vojinsa]

**EDIT: Now that 1.3 is on PTS, looking for conformation one way or the other on this**

The pictures Bioware released of the LFG tool didn't seem to include a gear check of any kind. What is preventing a level 50 in all green gear from queuing up for Devona or HM Lost Island?

 

The last thing we need is spending an hour in a queue for a group only to get stuck in a group that doesn't even have the gear required to complete it and having to start over.

 

A gear check is very important or you will have many frustrated and annoyed players.

 

Clarification: I want a built in feature incorporated into the LFG tool that restricts what you can queue for based on level and gear rating. I do NOT want the restrictions players generated (like they CURRENTLY are in the game). Since the devs have created a gear gated game (enrage timers, tiered content, etc...) then it is obvious to me that they need a way to enforce such gating, which the preview of the LFG tool failed to show.

 

Clarification 2: THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GEAR SCORE. IF YOU THINK IT DOES PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS NEEDED TO CLEAR AN INSTANCE, DETERMINED BY DEVELOERS, NOT PLAYERS.

 

 

minimum requirements provided by BW that players will use to exclude other players from joining (lfg tool included) an instance to get gear. word it anyway you want BUT THE END RESULT WILL BE THE SAME. i heard the same lame argument in WoW and its starting here too.

Edited June 6, 2012 by vojinsa

[bbbricksquad]

minimum requirements provided by BW that players will use to exclude other players from joining (lfg tool included) an instance to get gear. word it anyway you want AND THE END RESULT WILL BE THE SAME. i heard the same lame argument in WoW and its starting here too.

 

I'm up for letting anyone in the normal 50 FPs but I am also up for a gear check in HMs and OPs. People in greens shouldn't being doing that content because they are causing the rest of the group to lag behind.

[Ganrax]

I just can't stand by and let people make these ignorant comments. How is a gear check for content that is tuned with a certain gear expectation feeding elitism?

 

Its so frustrating to me to constantly see people refer to gear gating as elitism. It isnt! It is just another way of measuring your characters level! You wouldn't claim that Hard Mode flashpoints requiring level 50 to join is elitism would you? SO SILLY!

 

Honestly man just give up, 99% of them just cant grasp this concept. In their minds they pay the same subscription you do so they are entitled to skip through the same work that you did, often throwing excuses out like "I have a life", and expect other players to carry them through the content. Without a built in gear check set by the developers to the LFG tool you will just see players inspect everyone that joins their group and remove the players they deem under geared or simply drop group and re-queue(either way making the LFG Tool take longer to form a viable group and defeating the purpose of it in the first place). Then you will see the same people that were against the gear check come back on here whining about how everyone is an elitist and kicking people from groups based on lack of gear and expecting the developers to do something about it even though they were against them doing anything in the first place. They'll just have to learn the hard way.

[Ganrax]

minimum requirements provided by BW that players will use to exclude other players from joining (lfg tool included) an instance to get gear. word it anyway you want BUT THE END RESULT WILL BE THE SAME. i heard the same lame argument in WoW and its starting here too.

 

Learn. To. Read. He is NOT talking about a GEAR SCORE or any related tool in any way shape or form so get off the conspiracy train. Players will not use anything in this system to exclude other players because IT IS NOT IN THE PLAYERS HANDS. It is a simple gear check when a player goes to queue for a flashpoint. If they do not meet the set requirements for the flashpoint, they are barred from queuing and told what the minimum requirements are so that they can work towards it. In no way can anyone see this except the player looking to queue so it can in no way be used by other players to exclude other players from queuing for flashpoints that they should be queuing for. This will only prevent players from queuing for flashpoints that they are under geared for(like a player in all green level 40 gear queuing for a Hardmode Lost Island or a Story Mode EC).

[vojinsa]

Learn. To. Read. He is NOT talking about a GEAR SCORE or any related tool in any way shape or form so get off the conspiracy train. Players will not use anything in this system to exclude other players because IT IS NOT IN THE PLAYERS HANDS. It is a simple gear check when a player goes to queue for a flashpoint. If they do not meet the set requirements for the flashpoint, they are barred from queuing and told what the minimum requirements are so that they can work towards it. In no way can anyone see this except the player looking to queue so it can in no way be used by other players to exclude other players from queuing for flashpoints that they should be queuing for. This will only prevent players from queuing for flashpoints that they are under geared for(like a player in all green level 40 gear queuing for a Hardmode Lost Island or a Story Mode EC).

 

i read it and understand but read what i said also. I PUT IT IN () TO AVOID COMMENTS LIKE THIS. ill post what i said again for those who have reading issues.

 

minimum requirements provided by BW that players will use to exclude other players from joining (lfg tool included) an instance to get gear. word it anyway you want BUT THE END RESULT WILL BE THE SAME. i heard the same lame argument in WoW and its starting here too.

 

now before you post read what i wrote and count to 20 to understand what was said.

Edited June 6, 2012 by vojinsa

[DarthTHC]

I just can't stand by and let people make these ignorant comments. How is a gear check for content that is tuned with a certain gear expectation feeding elitism?

 

Its so frustrating to me to constantly see people refer to gear gating as elitism. It isnt! It is just another way of measuring your characters level! You wouldn't claim that Hard Mode flashpoints requiring level 50 to join is elitism would you? SO SILLY!

 

They're the same kids who got trophies for coming in dead nuts last place all their lives. They don't understand how to pull their own weight. They think they should be carried by those of us who do know how to and commit to pulling our own weight.

 

That simple.

[RachelAnne]

That elitism which the OP and others provide in that threat is the reason why LFG tools fail.

 

You expect everyone to be at your lvl, nobody is allowed to have less gear than you. Nobody is allowed to be new, nobody is allowed to just do good enough - no it must be a hardcore performance.

 

All that gearscore crap of wow destroyed a lot over there, people who dont wear BOA´s are kicked and insulted by elitist´s, just like you get kicked in the LFG if you dont have raid gear.

 

 

Reading this thread BW hopefully realises that by implementing the LFG they killed their great game.

[Zmidponk]

They're the same kids who got trophies for coming in dead nuts last place all their lives. They don't understand how to pull their own weight. They think they should be carried by those of us who do know how to and commit to pulling our own weight.

 

That simple.

 

Or, you know, realise that SWTOR is a frigging GAME. So, if you go in with gear that means you wipe a few times, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't actually matter. At all. Hell, some of the most fun and memorable times I had in WoW is when me and a bunch of just dinged 60 (this was vanilla) players trying out Molten Core. Not knowing a damn thing about the instance, plus being in greens/blues, meant we were getting our arses kicked every which way possible. But we found it fun, mostly because of the hilarity of it, and, when we went back with better gear, some of what we learned whilst getting our arses kicked actually turned out to be useful.

[DarthTHC]

That elitism which the OP and others provide in that threat is the reason why LFG tools fail.

 

You expect everyone to be at your lvl, nobody is allowed to have less gear than you. Nobody is allowed to be new, nobody is allowed to just do good enough - no it must be a hardcore performance.

 

All that gearscore crap of wow destroyed a lot over there, people who dont wear BOA´s are kicked and insulted by elitist´s, just like you get kicked in the LFG if you dont have raid gear.

 

Reading this thread BW hopefully realises that by implementing the LFG they killed their great game.

 

You're not reading the intelligent posts on the thread.

 

I don't expect everyone to be at MY level. I'm in a raiding guild and have access to Rakata gear. You don't need Rakata gear to complete HM flashpoints. But...

 

I DO expect everyone to be at the RIGHT LEVEL FOR THE CONTENT. If they are not, the group WILL FAIL because the game IS GATED ON GEAR.

 

Get it?

[DarthTHC]

Or, you know, realise that SWTOR is a frigging GAME. So, if you go in with gear that means you wipe a few times, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't actually matter. At all. Hell, some of the most fun and memorable times I had in WoW is when me and a bunch of just dinged 60 (this was vanilla) players trying out Molten Core. Not knowing a damn thing about the instance, plus being in greens/blues, meant we were getting our arses kicked every which way possible. But we found it fun, mostly because of the hilarity of it, and, when we went back with better gear, some of what we learned whilst getting our arses kicked actually turned out to be useful.

 

If you want that sort of "fun", please unleash that upon your friends in a planned group. Please have the courtesy and common decency to be prepared for the content you're taking on when you use the groupfinder. Some people won't be quite so amused by constantly wiping because someone thought it might be fun to try content they weren't nearly ready for yet.

[Tahana]

That elitism which the OP and others provide in that threat is the reason why LFG tools fail.

 

You expect everyone to be at your lvl, nobody is allowed to have less gear than you. Nobody is allowed to be new, nobody is allowed to just do good enough - no it must be a hardcore performance.

 

All that gearscore crap of wow destroyed a lot over there, people who dont wear BOA´s are kicked and insulted by elitist´s, just like you get kicked in the LFG if you dont have raid gear.

 

 

Reading this thread BW hopefully realises that by implementing the LFG they killed their great game.

 

another person that doesn't comprehend that bioware designed a gear gated game. bioware is the one excluding people from the content as it sits right now. all we are asking for is that the gear gating is programmed into the LFG tool.

 

If you want to call me an elitest to make your 'everyone is a winner' self feel better so be it. All we want is the system to be done the way bioware has already designed the game. There is no way a fresh 50 in greens or blues has any of the required stats to complete Lost Island, Denova or any of the other 1.2 released content.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Tahana

[Gungan]

I would hope that the gear check is just invisible.

[Gungan]

That elitism which the OP and others provide in that threat is the reason why LFG tools fail.

 

You expect everyone to be at your lvl, nobody is allowed to have less gear than you. Nobody is allowed to be new, nobody is allowed to just do good enough - no it must be a hardcore performance.

 

All that gearscore crap of wow destroyed a lot over there, people who dont wear BOA´s are kicked and insulted by elitist´s, just like you get kicked in the LFG if you dont have raid gear.

 

 

Reading this thread BW hopefully realises that by implementing the LFG they killed their great game.

 

There is a minimum level of gearing needed to complete certain content. You should not be allowed to queue to a level 50 hard mode wearing level 40 epics.

 

My hope is that the gear check is hidden, or simply greys out flashpoints you're not geared enough to attempt. If you want to get carried through it by a buddy, group manually.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Gungan

[Tahana]

There is a minimum level of gearing needed to complete certain content. You should not be allowed to do a level 50 hard mode wearing level 40 epics.

 

My hope is that the gear check is hidden, or simply greys out flashpoints you're not geared enough to attempt.

 

That is all I'm asking for. I'll help people with fight mechanics, I'll explain things, I'll even wipe with you while you learn.. But I hope that Bioware puts in their own minimums into the LFG tool.

[mothear]

minimum requirements provided by BW that players will use to exclude other players from joining (lfg tool included) an instance to get gear. word it anyway you want BUT THE END RESULT WILL BE THE SAME. i heard the same lame argument in WoW and its starting here too.

 

Sorry but this makes no sense to me. In one breath you seem to be saying that Bioware will set the requirement for a gear level (through LFG) but then you say players will use this to exclude others - how, can you explain please because I just don't get it.

 

The way I see it is Bioware should set the minimum gear that is required to complete their instance so if you pass that then you can queue. How does this follow that people can exclude others when Bioware are allowing them to queue? Obviously it won't prevent people from being kicked due to a poor performance, or will it? Perhaps Bioware could put in a set number of wipes before anyone can be kicked, if that's what people want.

[shadowrouge]

having run a few HM's gear is important. It does help you clear the content. My only concern with a gear check is some not all for not every one does it but a few do, start to use it as a measuring stick. I know for certain that there will be someone somewhere on a server that will want you to be OVER geared for the content.

 

lets say your doing a HM of Taral V. There is no need for you to be in Tionesse or better to do this hard mode. My Guild has been easily clearing it in mostly dailies and good blues. Now you take Eseless or say Lost Island yeah lets pump up the gear but you don't have to be in complete raid gear for it either.

Edited June 6, 2012 by shadowrouge
spelling

[Zmidponk]

If you want that sort of "fun", please unleash that upon your friends in a planned group. Please have the courtesy and common decency to be prepared for the content you're taking on when you use the groupfinder. Some people won't be quite so amused by constantly wiping because someone thought it might be fun to try content they weren't nearly ready for yet.

 

So the wants of 'some people', which, by the sounds of it, includes you, should be forced on everyone? If I join a group, and the group, as a whole, thinks I'm undergeared and kicks me, that's one thing. If a feature is implemented that means I can't even join in the first place, even though some, like me, like the challenge and adversity of trying more difficult content that, by design, is considered above my gear level, even if that risks (gasp!) wiping a few times, that's quite another.

[mavsynchroid]

Lol are you kidding me?

 

Won't be that hard to ask the person "Are you geared for LI"? Most people who are lvl 50 know what they're doing. This isn't remotely close to a big deal, and wont be once it's in all the servers.

[Ratajack]

If you want that sort of "fun", please unleash that upon your friends in a planned group. Please have the courtesy and common decency to be prepared for the content you're taking on when you use the groupfinder. Some people won't be quite so amused by constantly wiping because someone thought it might be fun to try content they weren't nearly ready for yet.

 

If you are going to form your own group, then feel free to set any requirements you wish for that group. However, if you are going to use an LFD tool to PUG, you give up the right to set requirements, in my opinion.

 

This does not mean that I am against a standard for minimum level of gear to be able to queue for certain instances. I just think this should be set by BW, and if a player meets those requirements, that should be the end of it, no option to vote kick or remove a player who met the BW set minimum standards. If a player or players feel that one or more members of their group is not as geared or skilled as they wish, they are free to drop group and requeue, but they should not be able to just remove a player at whim.

[Tahana]

So the wants of 'some people', which, by the sounds of it, includes you, should be forced on everyone? If I join a group, and the group, as a whole, thinks I'm undergeared and kicks me, that's one thing. If a feature is implemented that means I can't even join in the first place, even though some, like me, like the challenge and adversity of trying more difficult content that, by design, is considered above my gear level, even if that risks (gasp!) wiping a few times, that's quite another.

 

I have no problem facing challenging content under geared. I raid, I do that weekly with my guild. But when the game is gear dependent it shouldn't be released on others who have gone through the trouble of getting the appropriate gear to face the content.

 

You want to face harder content under geared, simple create your own premade, then they have a choice. In a random group tool I don't have a choice with whom I group so it should be checking for the requirements that Bioware has already created int he game.

[Zmidponk]

I have no problem facing challenging content under geared. I raid, I do that weekly with my guild. But when the game is gear dependent it shouldn't be released on others who have gone through the trouble of getting the appropriate gear to face the content.

 

You want to face harder content under geared, simple create your own premade, then they have a choice. In a random group tool I don't have a choice with whom I group so it should be checking for the requirements that Bioware has already created int he game.

 

You do have a choice. I've not used the LFG tool yet, so I don't know if there's some kind of votekick mechanic. If there is, you can use that. If there isn't, you can drop group yourself.

[Mallorik]

Lol are you kidding me?

 

Won't be that hard to ask the person "Are you geared for LI"? Most people who are lvl 50 know what they're doing. This isn't remotely close to a big deal, and wont be once it's in all the servers.

 

You dont have the option to ask someone if they are geared for it if they use the lfg tool.

 

And if you allow undergeared players to enter an fp they arent geared for, many will try it. You can just look through this thread and see dozens of people who dont have a clue that most content is gated with gear checks. They all think "well i know how to play ill be fine".

 

A gear check on the tool just avoids the unpleasant task of figuring out who shouldnt be in there and vote kicking them.

[RachelAnne]

You're not reading the intelligent posts on the thread.

 

I don't expect everyone to be at MY level. I'm in a raiding guild and have access to Rakata gear. You don't need Rakata gear to complete HM flashpoints. But...

 

I DO expect everyone to be at the RIGHT LEVEL FOR THE CONTENT. If they are not, the group WILL FAIL because the game IS GATED ON GEAR.

 

Get it?

 

Your mistake is, that you have no right to say who is ready and who not.

 

You were unable to finish dungeons, fine. But to think everyone is so "bad" is wrong. There are people who can play very well and better than you, just with worse gear.

 

There is a good example of wow,

 

we did clear all 5men hc´s and the first raid Tier 1 month after cata release and this without full epics or whatever gear is accesible today. We even used pvp gear, for instance I was tanking with a few pieces.

Still if you want to do those dungeons today, people request full pve epics because they are badly skilled and must cover this by overgearing content.

 

I dont see why I should overgear my chars, why my alts should have higher gear than what drops just because people like you demand it to cover their bad performance.

 

At wow its usually those in full epics who wipe a group and not those in greens btw.

 

I have more raiding and dungeon experience in MMO´s than you might ever achieve and I can tell you that gear is not the reason why wipes happen, its bad gameplay and the lack of skill.

 

If you use the LFG you must accept that players are not like you and are able to play just fine with worse gear than yours or are the first time in that dungeon.

 

If you want to play with people who have high end gear, high dps or whatever make a premade - the LFG is the wrong place for you.

 

Things like LFG´s are in place to open a gate to those that were unable to group before. I know that opening gates would lead to building walls by the community itself.

 

First you guys demand a specific Ilvl, later achivements and then DPS test´s at the first trash.... All that kills MMO`s, I dont understand why some people must exclude others all the time.

 

 

You peeps complain that others want to be carried but in the end its you that are carried. Carried by gear that is not necessary, by dps numbers or experience that is not necessary. We are talking about a random group and not about a tournament where every bit matters.

Edited June 6, 2012 by RachelAnne

[mothear]

So the wants of 'some people', which, by the sounds of it, includes you, should be forced on everyone? If I join a group, and the group, as a whole, thinks I'm undergeared and kicks me, that's one thing. If a feature is implemented that means I can't even join in the first place, even though some, like me, like the challenge and adversity of trying more difficult content that, by design, is considered above my gear level, even if that risks (gasp!) wiping a few times, that's quite another.

 

Is this an e-peen thing so you can slam Bioware and say 'Your content is rubbish see I can do hard modes in 4X greens'? Of course you will omit the fact that you only did it because the other three in Rakata gear carried you through it!

 

If you want a specific challenge you should at least have the decency for other players and ensure you do it with your own group. It was the same in WoW where people would complain because an LFG group didn't want to run certain hardmode achievements.

 

If peoples think it is so important that they require an automated LFG (due to their limited play time) it is certainly equally important to have people with the appropriate (as decided by Bioware) gear for the instance. I've already seen threads here about people complaining that they have just hit 50 and decided to try hard modes and don't seem to understand the concept of having to gear up a wee bit first.

[JD_Kidd]

Hmm, that's strange..

All these threads from people saying that a LFG tool would make everyone more social and build up the overall SWTOR community because it would allow *all* players to group up and enjoy the game in an atmosphere where you didn't need to spend forever looking for specific people in order to do FPs.

 

Now we see that it's yet another way to shun players who aren't up to whatever arbitrary standards set by a minority.

 

What do you want next? A mandatory upload of each potential group member's latest combat log so you can scrutinize it before they join? Maybe a checkbox for only those with Bio? Maybe a Founder's only option so those newer players who aren't worthy of you can't participate?

 

Lol you want to know something funny? If you don't have good enough gear you can PvP and grind out some good gear, or craft and sell for cash, or even do solo missions and buy your gear! As for what follows, its basically a guy ranting on extremes that would never happen because the game would have to many upset people.