Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Lord_Itharius]

I don't because I'd rather see it available as an addon. That way BioWare doesn't have to be put in the position of alienating their ultra vocal casual players.

 

The people, like me, who want it can use it and those that don't won't even have to deal with it, and it won't be BioWare's baby. They'll continue to direct their inane hatred at the tool.

 

Yep. Also, community interfaces ALWAYS end up better than developer interfaces. Look at an interface in WoW with the default UI, and then look at that same interface with xperl and bartender4. The community just does these things better because there's so many modders out there with fresh GUI ideas.

[huyrawr]

I support/hate meters.

 

Why? Because you have those people who are "ELITEST" who will talk down on you if they are doing higher dps than you.

 

You even have those high ego people who usually are in better gear "PRETEND" they dont have meters and ask for it after every boss fights.

 

Then you have those annoying people who always link meters, to show off etc.

 

---------

 

Then again meters can be a very good thing.

 

Say if your doing a Flashpoint or raid of some sort and you are having problems with the boss. You know your doing it right but it seems that your dps is lacking; so you know who is lacking in dps, and hopefully ask them nicely to leave or fix there spec etc.

 

DPS Meters are also a good way to know if "YOU" yourself is doing good. So if your doing low dps you know that you need to work on your char gear or rotation better.

 

In all i SUPPORT having meters; no matter what people are people... they can only grow... HOPEFULLY

[Docfranz]

I'm willing to bet that most people that hate the idea of a recount system are the ones that show up to raids 15 min late, in green gear, with no raid potions. At the end of the raid when everyone is mad that it took three hours to down the boss with the 5 min enrage timer because the dps was bad, these are the people that also say "It's just a game why are you so mad at a video game nerd"...

 

In short, DPS meters are good if used properly. If your idea of fun is wiping over and over because of lack of damage, then skip normal difficultly and go straight to nightmare mode =O

[Jest]

Cuz raid leaders have an inbuilt fail warning the activates when they ook at a player right?

 

Cuz wearing a guilds tag by your name magically imbues you with all the skill of the best players right? Being in a guilad automatically makes you pro.

 

Lead something. Then come at me bro.

 

If the player is in your guild, you should have played with them enough to gauge their skill level. If you're randomly selecting people from your Guild's pool of 500 players.. sorry but you're doing it wrong. If they're in another guild, then you're PUGing them.

[Lord_Itharius]

Meh, all this arguing is moot anyways. They aren't allowed, and supposedly they aren't going to be allowed.

 

If they do make it part of the game, then I'll just hop, jump and skip back over to EVE. If I'm going to use a spreadsheet and calculator all day, then it's gonna for more than a pair of ridiculously ugly shoulder pads.

 

I want to play SWTOR, not some Star Wars spreadsheet.

So you want the game to be dumbed down and overly easy with no ability to improve our characters' playstyles past getting better gear just so that you don't have to think about your game as you play it?

 

You say "ridiculously ugly shoulder pads" as if you're mocking the very genre of the game you're about to play. In which case I'd reply that this game may not be for you, because it IS a game about stats and spreadsheets, whether you want those stats blackboxed or not. Personally, I like transparency in game mechanics rather than having to deal with cryptic work-arounds to figure out how my gear helps or hinders my damage-dealing ability.

[ForceCowboy]

I'm willing to bet that most people that hate the idea of a recount system are the ones that show up to raids 15 min late, in green gear, with no raid potions. At the end of the raid when everyone is mad that it took three hours to down the boss with the 5 min enrage timer because the dps was bad, these are the people that also say "It's just a game why are you so mad at a video game nerd"...

 

In short, DPS meters are good if used properly. If your idea of fun is wiping over and over because of lack of damage, then skip normal difficultly and go straight to nightmare mode =O

 

Back to what I said earlier. This only happens if your Guild/Raid leader is weak. If he's a strong leader then you'll only show up late maybe twice, then you'll be looking for another guild.

[Remidi]

If the player is in your guild, you should have played with them enough to gauge their skill level. If you're randomly selecting people from your Guild's pool of 500 players.. sorry but you're doing it wrong. If they're in another guild, then you're PUGing them.

 

How do you determine if that person is good? A hunch? The red bar went down faster?

[Antifaith]

Actually I'd run with them in High Level Dungeons/Flashpoints first. See how they play their role there.

 

Or you could run then in an Ops/Raid and simply pay attention to their performance. Seems like that would be the duty of a Raid Leader right? Not just issuing commands and repeating fight mechanics.

 

Or since im usualy either tanking or healing, a job that requires a fair amount of you know...watching what IM doing i could refer to a tool , check deaths, damage taken , damage out , healing recieved so on and so forth. You're making my point for me. Recount makes things like that much easier. On top of that i'd ask my officers , especialy his class/role officer how he/she went ect , i'd have a more complete picture.

[Colobulous]

Meh, all this arguing is moot anyways. They aren't allowed, and supposedly they aren't going to be allowed.

 

Source?

 

Because the OP contradicts you.

 

I want to play SWTOR, not some Star Wars spreadsheet.

 

And other people want to play too...but they may not want to drag you along and not have a way to be sure you're performing.

[Remidi]

Or since im usualy either tanking or healing, a job that requires a fair amount of you know...watching what IM doing i could refer to a tool , check deaths, damage taken , damage out , healing recieved so on and so forth. You're making my point for me. Recount makes things like that much easier. On top of that i'd ask my officers , especialy his class/role officer how he/she went ect , i'd have a more complete picture.

 

Exactly. Every rebuttal is either "elitism" or lets do the same exact thing, but lets do it the long way. Oh or buy a 2nd PC as one poster has stated twice.

[GalacticKegger]

LOL... not again.

[Colobulous]

I would prefer to not have it. I know it is supposed to help you become a better player and to push yourself a bit harder, but all I ever see from it was bickering, insulting and gloating.

 

How much do you expect to notice the quiet proddings and suggestions that do not blow up into flame wars?

 

I play with a close group of friends and we prefer to not worry about the numbers, just have fun and as long as our group / raid is working as a team.

 

My close group of friends does it, and we don't worry about the numbers, because we realize they are important and work as a team to improve them.

[Remidi]

LOL... not again.

 

That's a damn good quote from Ozzy. Surprising. He rocks

[Colobulous]

The issue I have with this example is that it only takes into account a Time Limit. An "Enrage Timer" if you will.

 

If an encounter does not have a time limit.. then there's no need for Recount.

 

You can use other mechanics to create difficulty. It doesn't always have to be dodge this, dodge that, and race against a clock.

 

But...we're not talking about excluding those mechanics, just reflecting one important game system by including challenges relevant to it, whether it be bomb mobs, interrupt shields, swarming mobs, or simple enrage timers, they're part of the challenge for DPS.

 

Do you want the DPS to not have a challenge that reflects their performance?

[Tinkizzle]

recount and omen would be very beneficial to the raiding aspect of the game in my opinion. They were always helpful in WoW.

[ForceCowboy]

So you want the game to be dumbed down and overly easy with no ability to improve our characters' playstyles past getting better gear just so that you don't have to think about your game as you play it?

 

You say "ridiculously ugly shoulder pads" as if you're mocking the very genre of the game you're about to play. In which case I'd reply that this game may not be for you, because it IS a game about stats and spreadsheets, whether you want those stats blackboxed or not. Personally, I like transparency in game mechanics rather than having to deal with cryptic work-arounds to figure out how my gear helps or hinders my damage-dealing ability.

 

The game is what it is.. it has no parser already. I'm not asking for it to be dumbed down at all. I'm asking for it to stay exactly how it is and if people want parsers.... then WoW is ----> thataway.

[Remidi]

The game is what it is.. it has no parser already. I'm not asking for it to be dumbed down at all. I'm asking for it to stay exactly how it is and if people want parsers.... then WoW is ----> thataway.

 

What does WoW have to do with parsers? You are just a WoW hater which is fine.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi

[FerrusPA]

How do you determine if that person is good? A hunch? The red bar went down faster?

 

Quality of character since anyone who doesn't use a meter is obviously a better person.

[navycrow]

I am still a NO for dps meters you didnt need the becuase when "you are the Bomb" you got away from your group dpsing the boss not stand there and blow everyone up cause your dps would go down

[Antifaith]

The game is what it is.. it has no parser already. I'm not asking for it to be dumbed down at all. I'm asking for it to stay exactly how it is and if people want parsers.... then WoW is ----> thataway.

 

It does have a combat log that can be used for parse sites actualy. Sorry to rain on your parade.

[Remidi]

I am still a NO for dps meters you didnt need the becuase when "you are the Bomb" you got away from your group dpsing the boss not stand there and blow everyone up cause your dps would go down

 

So that person is bad. What doe s a meter have to do with it?

[Antifaith]

I am still a NO for dps meters you didnt need the becuase when "you are the Bomb" you got away from your group dpsing the boss not stand there and blow everyone up cause your dps would go down

 

That doesnt really have anything to do with...anything. This "point" has been adressed numerous times in this thread.

[Remidi]

It does have a combat log that can be used for parse sites actualy. Sorry to rain on your parade.

 

lol thats awesome. I did not know that. Good. If there are logs it can be parsed.

[EltronBWL]

I did not sift through 27 pages of divided opinions and uninformed babble, however I read the OP and thought I'd voice my opinion on the subject.

 

I played WoW for about 4 years, however I seem to have found a solution to a large portion of the issues people have with recount and other mods that are widespread in WoW and create problems with the general community, like gearscore. I joined a guild. I worked my way up from bad guilds to the best PvE guild on my server, which maintained top 200 world rankings from mid BC to the end of Wrath. Any end game focused guild that isn't terrible, however, would work.

 

Pug groups use recount in a bad way. The same way they abuse any gearscore-esque system/achievements, and other mods. They create arbitrary numbers that they feel are necessary to complete content. Anyone who does not meet that sometimes ridiculous demand is ignored. If you join a guild however, this is no longer a problem.

 

Anyone that has been in a competitive PvE guild will tell you; for top tier, endgame raid encounters, recount is an absolute necessity. Much more so for progression fights where a certain level of performance is expected. Not just in regards to potentially imbalanced damage done, but things like damage taken, dispels, and other possibly critical information related to the fight. If you took avoidable damage, it's important to know where it came from, and how much.

 

The only thing recount does is analyze the combat log, and present the information in an easy to use interface. It adds absolutely nothing to the game or interface, it simply compiles the data that is already there. The actions pug groups take with it are unfortunate, but joining a guild eliminates dealing with randoms.

 

If mod support is never implemented, it should definitely be added to the stock ui in some way. Blizzard can shove the gearscores/"average item level," but I feel this will be a necessity for later tier operation encounters.

[jaiAtillar]

No, never liked recount.

 

The problem is it leads to stupidity, people not following instructions or burning at the wrong times and then using their numbers to justify it not realizing that their miniscule gain over the rest of the DPS is actually a detriment to the rest of the group/raid.

 

It's the same problem you get with standardized tests. Just like how in the end, all it does is force teachers to teach how to take the test, not the true knowledge that is supposed to be being tested, in the end all recount does is train you to play the numbers, not the game.