Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[FarVision]

Nope. Here's why:

 

This game is fun.

 

You have to think, and pay attention to what's going on around you.

 

You have to watch the boss for his Specials, and block them.

 

You have to pay attention to the battle, and watch for adds.

 

You have to heal your player and NPC companions.

 

You have to communicate with your team, and decide who's going to CC what, and use the Mark system.

 

In short, situation awareness.

 

 

I do NOT want to see the words HEAL NOW or DO THIS, or LOOK HERE and have the game on auto-play. That ruins for experience for everyone. I want smart people playing my game with me. If that means half the subscriber base, then so be it.

 

I'm greedy and demanding with my entertainment time. I dumped the CoD series and went with BF2/3 because of this. "You much be this smart to play with me" (like the sign on the roller coaster)

 

Our guild uses Ventrillo, and we are mostly smart people.

 

I don't want dumb people coming into my house.

 

Any addons or combat logging for the purpose of created an out-of-band analyzer is working towards the end of making my entertainment dumber, and I do not care for that.

 

If the battle is won, congrats. You did it right. If you lost, then try something different. You don't need five megs of text files per fight.

[Kabjat]

This should only be available once a player hits max level. Before that, it would only cause problems. Let me explain.

 

the use of any damage meters before max level is worthless. Recount in wow was ridiculous and out of control with every egotistical player either spamming their misleading numbers or spamming the log only to use it to humiliate who ever came in 'last'. Everyone puts WAY too much emphasis and importance on being FIRST on the dps meters when in reality, there are many factors that determine the success or failure of an encounter. Like....did people stay out of the fire? did the right mobs get CC'd? Did the tank communicate effectively with the group which mobs he wanted killed first and did he mark them accordingly?

 

All the clueless big mouths out there who love to throw around their damage numbers like it matters need to learn some of the basic tenets of teamwork and CROWD CONTROL before they start worrying so much about who got top dps. And they need to STOP blaming the darn healer when they die from standing in the bad stuff.

 

Keep in mind, I am only referring to players who are NOT max level. Max level and all that entails beyond is a whole different story and I think these tools are necessary for higher level game play like raiding. Leveling? Don't need it.

 

TL;DR -- This feature should only be available once a player hits 50. And I am referring to a Bioware developed, built-in 'recount'

Edited January 7, 2012 by Kabjat

[KerinKor]

Yes because I want to know if the DPSers are doing 1 ability a minute or doing their job properly.

Because playing an MMO is a JOB.

 

/rolleyes

[Chosenxeno]

I totally agree with combat logs and DPS meters.

 

Also, once the optimal spec and damage rotation has been identified using these, can we just have a mod which presses the keys in order for you? Perhaps one big macro to do it. Since everyone will have the same optimal spec it should be a very simple to accomplish.

 

I am currently reading this big 600 page book, and would love to get my epic operations gear while reading it. This way I wouldn't have to touch the keyboard for a few hours, except maybe to dodge out of "the fire" in boss battles. But the trash mobs would all be autopilot.

 

To all those people who want to go "freestyle" and "think for themselves", well, you clearly missed the point of the game. It is to get all purple gear and be the best MMO player ever, not to have fun.

 

Another one of those people that don't realize that you don't have to use addons or join a guild that requires you to have them. You can do both of these things:)

 

If you don't wanna run the Optimal spec as u called you can *gasp* find a guild that doesn't require you to have it. Shocking Right?!!!

[Phadian_gess]

Because playing an MMO is a JOB.

 

/rolleyes

 

^this

[Chosenxeno]

Nope. Here's why:

 

This game is fun.

 

You have to think, and pay attention to what's going on around you.

 

You have to watch the boss for his Specials, and block them.

 

You have to pay attention to the battle, and watch for adds.

 

You have to heal your player and NPC companions.

 

You have to communicate with your team, and decide who's going to CC what, and use the Mark system.

 

In short, situation awareness.

 

 

 

All the stuff you listed except for heal companion, is stuff I did raiding for 6 years in a game that allows addons. Your Argument is moot.

 

Shocking News: You don't have to install addons or join a guild that requires you to use them. More at 11.

 

Edit: Why the heck would anyone play a Brain Dead FPS like COD. BF3 is a heck of a lot more skill based. (Off topic I know but i'll take any chance I can get to bash CoD lol)

Edited January 7, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[Klarick]

Because playing an MMO is a JOB.

 

/rolleyes

 

No. Because what this dude said ^^

[Irishbrewed]

Keep your petty care bear ui cluttering meta games out of the old republic. Read a tool tip = profit.

[Chosenxeno]

Keep your petty care bear ui cluttering meta games out of the old republic. Read a tool tip = profit.

 

Meters are coming whether you like it or not lol. This game belongs to the people of Azeroth. If EA wants to profit the they had better start getting the Ex-WOW and current WOW that will largely make up the Population of this game comfy.

 

That's the way it goes. Sure a lot of butthurt people will leave, but the population will grow.

There will be people that disagree and they are wrong. The longterm money is in the WOW Raider base. There was never any real money to be made from these "MMO of the Month" casuals. A lot of them are going to be gone once Tera or GW2 or(random MMO) is released. They will repeat the cycle as new MMOs are released to. Why invest in them?

 

Now a lot of you will say i'm wrong but, EA and Bioware know that i'm right. Addons are coming. Get over it.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[DaxRendar]

Meters are coming whether you like it or not lol. This game belongs to the people of Azeroth. If EA wants to profit the they had better start getting the Ex-WOW and current WOW that will largely make up the Population of this game comfy.

 

That's the way it goes. Sure a lot of butthurt people will leave, but the population will grow.

There will be people that disagree and they are wrong. The longterm money is in the WOW Raider base. There was never any real money to be made from these "MMO of the Month" casuals. A lot of them are going to be gone once Tera or GW2 or(random MMO) is released.

 

Now a lot of you will say i'm wrong but, EA and Bioware know that i'm right. Addons are coming. Get over it.

 

I wouldn't bet on that

[Hairless]

If the battle is won, congrats. You did it right. If you lost, then try something different. You don't need five megs of text files per fight.

 

Please, just please, answer this.

How do you plan on figuring out what to do different?

 

It's funny how they can never answer that.

[Kabjat]

Now a lot of you will say i'm wrong but, EA and Bioware know that i'm right. Addons are coming. Get over it.

 

 

You are wrong. I don't care if Level 50s can use their precious addons in their uber raids. As a matter of fact, I think they would be FINE for level 50s because it's a higher level of gameplay and such features would be beneficial. But leave them out of my leveling. They aren't needed for under level 50.

[Khechari]

I support 3rd party addons

[Kabjat]

Please, just please, answer this.

How do you plan on figuring out what to do different?

 

It's funny how they can never answer that.

 

 

A group of level 23s doesn't need it. At all. Level 50s probably do, but stop assuming this person is coming from YOUR perspective of wanting spend 12 hours a day perfecting a character. Maybe he just wants to play for a bit after work and wants to have a good time with his guild without the stress of being Mr. Perfect Gamer.

 

Your way of playing isn't wrong. Neither is his. But the max level min/maxers should realize this and stop foisting their expectations and elitism on everyone else like it was even asked for.

[Pinely]

Not knowing the damage and healing of your group is difficulty through obscurity. The content isn't challenging because it's mechanically difficult, it's challenging because someone isn't playing at the level required of him or her and you don't know who it is. That kind of difficulty doesn't hold up long term. Given enough time, the raid will figure out who the problem person is, likely with a healthy dose of drama. Once the problem is corrected, that difficulty is gone entirely, making it worthless as a tool to encourage challenging content.

 

And if any of you actually played WoW instead of inventing fantasies about how bad it is, you'd know that Recount goes virtually unused outside of Raiding. It simply isn't worth the effort to link Recount in Heroic Dungeons and it is rare to have someone do so. So, this argument that people will go nuts and post their damage everywhere is largely nonsense.

 

I can't help but feel that the people in opposition to this have never played an MMO PvE endgame for more than a week. Recount is an incredibly useful tool and Bioware would be foolish to omit it to cater to people that aren't the tool's target audience in the first place.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Pinely

[Dorkfrey]

A group of level 23s doesn't need it. At all. Level 50s probably do, but stop assuming this person is coming from YOUR perspective of wanting spend 12 hours a day perfecting a character. Maybe he just wants to play for a bit after work and wants to have a good time with his guild without the stress of being Mr. Perfect Gamer.

 

Your way of playing isn't wrong. Neither is his. But the max level min/maxers should realize this and stop foisting their expectations and elitism on everyone else like it was even asked for.

 

Seconded.

 

To be honest - I'll be glad to be playing sans damage meters for a while. I truly grew sick of them in WoW, especially when they were used inappropriately or just badly. Of which most uses I ever saw, were.

 

The fact that most dungeons/raids these numbers were bandied around like they were pro's - when they were still standing in the effing fire, not CC'ing things they should be etc... means - for now - I'm happier without than with. The role of pew pewer, isn't just to top the charts. And I'll be glad for as long as it stays out of TOR.

 

I don't need to know how much damage you are doing, or that I'm lagging behind you. So long as what's supposed to be happening in the fight *IS* happening, and what's supposed to be avoided *IS* being avoided. If a fight goes smoothly, I don't care if someone's higher or lower than me.

 

And to the poster above me, I did high end WoW raiding, strict 10 man stuff in hardmode fights, 25 HC, etc.. I also did high end FFXI raiding. What I learned there - was it was always less about doing the MOST damage, but doing it right. Doing it at the right time, and getting the teamwork aspect right. We *knew* who our top DD's were, we knew who our best healers were. Never flung it in their face if they weren't, because you could *always* tell when people weren't doing their job "right". And no - I rarely used recount as a raid leader. I did use the tool that told me when people were doing things WRONG, that I can't remember the name of, but rarely was DPS meter ever required. Some of the other functions - yes - they were useful. But - to be truthful, the deathcount/decurse/etc counts - were of far higher value than any DPS meter ever was.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Dorkfrey

[Hairless]

A group of level 23s doesn't need it. At all. Level 50s probably do, but stop assuming this person is coming from YOUR perspective of wanting spend 12 hours a day perfecting a character. Maybe he just wants to play for a bit after work and wants to have a good time with his guild without the stress of being Mr. Perfect Gamer.

 

Your way of playing isn't wrong. Neither is his. But the max level min/maxers should realize this and stop foisting their expectations and elitism on everyone else like it was even asked for.

 

That isn't my perspective. Nobody needs to spend 12 hours a day to perfect their character, wut? Not in this kind of MMORPG. Takes 5 minutes to look up the optimal spec and rotation that someone else already figured out.

I do play only a bit after work, I am a casual. I am playing a game, I am having a good time.

Don't you assume that I am having less fun just because I would rather be good than bad.

 

You have to ask yourself, are you really having a "good time" when you and your guild is constantly wiping over and over and over and can't figure out what is wrong?

It must get old after a while especially if you can only play it a couple hours a night.

[Uruare]

I'd laugh hysterically if they never let people have their "R U BAD' meters on here.

 

The legitimate uses and legitimate users of those tools...well, I've been one too many times not to know that there are legitimate uses for them. They can help you put the polish on your own performance by seeing hard data reflecting what you're doing/how; they can help serious raid guilds do the same on their core teams, and give them a good toolbox to help rawer, more entry-level guildies see what the benchmark for success reduces into kinda looking like.

 

Still, I'm gonna laugh if the trolls weeping for not having something to spam after every flashpoint while going 'lol lol lol' never get their mallets. R U MAD?

 

O'zing.

 

 

That said, yeah, things like Recount would be good. I'd get good use out of it here just like I did in WoW, though I'm too old and tired of pretending any of it matters to get worked up about it either way.

[Chosenxeno]

I wouldn't bet on that

 

We will see. EA won't settle for less than 1st. They aren't an upstart. They will need WOW players. I have a level 50 in Rift. Rift was slow to add Addons and Macros too. They went from 100+ servers to something in the 20's.

 

WOW has the largest MMO player base(yes there are F2Ps that have more "registered") in order for this game to be successful it has to make sure that the people that come from that playerbase are comfortable here so they do more than visit(a la what happened in Rift).

 

The state it's in right now won't really affect me because even though I like my macros and addons I can remember playing without and raiding without them. There are just too many players in the MMO pool that can't imagine not having:

 

The ability to customize their UI as they see fit(Rift got this somewhat right).

 

The ability to monitor performance.

 

The ability to see numbers on my CDs and Over Time spells(The fading bar thing is archaic).

 

Macros (Espescially Mouseover Macros)

 

LFD tools.

 

None of those things hamper "The Challenge" as people put it. It's stuff that really should be an MMO standard imo.

 

If SW:TOR starts merging servers next month the lack of the things above will be why.

This is stuff that should have been in out of the box.

 

That having been said. I love SW:TOR:) because I loved the KOTOR games. I want it to succeed.

[a_Stalker]

Recount, or any combat log parsing system, helps the individual player fine-tune their talents, abilities, rotations etc.

 

In addition yes, it helps analyse a fight and reliably show which player is doing what.

 

Now, there are very few situations where you will be underperforming on Recount AND be useful to the group. In most cases if you are not DPSing or Healing properly then you are a detriment to the group.

 

Since with new content a raid group usually JUST manage to kill a boss, there is no much room to spare for underperformers.

 

If however the content is so easy that a boss can die with a lot of room to spare, then you can easily have underperformers.

[Chosenxeno]

Not knowing the damage and healing of your group is difficulty through obscurity. The content isn't challenging because it's mechanically difficult, it's challenging because someone isn't playing at the level required of him or her and you don't know who it is. That kind of difficulty doesn't hold up long term. Given enough time, the raid will figure out who the problem person is, likely with a healthy dose of drama. Once the problem is corrected, that difficulty is gone entirely, making it worthless as a tool to encourage challenging content.

 

And if any of you actually played WoW instead of inventing fantasies about how bad it is, you'd know that Recount goes virtually unused outside of Raiding. It simply isn't worth the effort to link Recount in Heroic Dungeons and it is rare to have someone do so. So, this argument that people will go nuts and post their damage everywhere is largely nonsense.

 

I can't help but feel that the people in opposition to this have never played an MMO PvE endgame for more than a week. Recount is an incredibly useful tool and Bioware would be foolish to omit it to cater to people that aren't the tool's target audience in the first place.

 

This^. That's what I say too. There is no way these people have Raided. Maybe a few EQ here and there but, the game that allows Addons all but killed it. So it would seem thayt Addons are the way to go from that rationale lol(I wish I could have played EQ when it mattered though tbh hehe).

[Kabjat]

That isn't my perspective. Nobody needs to spend 12 hours a day to perfect their character, wut? Not in this kind of MMORPG. Takes 5 minutes to look up the optimal spec and rotation that someone else already figured out.

I do play only a bit after work, I am a casual. I am playing a game, I am having a good time.

Don't you assume that I am having less fun just because I would rather be good than bad.

 

You have to ask yourself, are you really having a "good time" when you and your guild is constantly wiping over and over and over and can't figure out what is wrong?

It must get old after a while especially if you can only play it a couple hours a night.

 

 

Casual? Ok fair enough. Looking up a spec on the internet and using ones own common sense has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I giggle at how you automatically assume I am 'BAD' (i love how that word is so carelessly thrown around) or that my guild constantly WIPES on flashpoints or whatever. Again, I haven't had that problem and frankly I haven't had a problem 'figuring out what is wrong' as you keep repeating. Nothing has been wrong. xD And I have done it ALL WITHOUT RECOUNT or ADDONS. Shocking, I know. I am simply saying, for the reading comprehension impaired, that I DO NOT support allowing anything LIKE this for NON MAX LEVEL PLAYERS.

 

If you would read what I posted earlier on this thread, you would know I stated that I believe these add ons would be beneficial for LEVEL 50 PLAYERS who are tackling more challenging content.

 

If you feel like you NEED such things to handle PRE max-level encounters, I'm not sure what to tell you, as I have yet to encounter ANYTHING insurmountable in a group setting in the mid-levels.

 

Oh, and don't YOU assume I am BAD simply because I don't want Recount. If you knew anything about these types of games, (and I'm assuming you do) you would know that such addons are not useful or even NEEDED unless you are level capped.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Kabjat

[a_Stalker]

It all depends on the content, if the content is very hard and requires optimisation AND top performance then you need it, if the content is a walk in the park then you probably not need it.

 

Recount is a diagnostic tool. We all use tools to do our work, and it is very rare we do it by "gut feeling".

[Hairless]

If you feel like you NEED such things to handle PRE max-level encounters, I'm not sure what to tell you, as I have yet to encounter ANYTHING insurmountable in a group setting.

 

lol. Nobody said they needed damage meters for pre level 50 crap.

I was obviously talking about max level raiding like any reasonable person here would.

[Kabjat]

Not knowing the damage and healing of your group is difficulty through obscurity. The content isn't challenging because it's mechanically difficult, it's challenging because someone isn't playing at the level required of him or her and you don't know who it is. That kind of difficulty doesn't hold up long term. Given enough time, the raid will figure out who the problem person is, likely with a healthy dose of drama. Once the problem is corrected, that difficulty is gone entirely, making it worthless as a tool to encourage challenging content.

 

And if any of you actually played WoW instead of inventing fantasies about how bad it is, you'd know that Recount goes virtually unused outside of Raiding. It simply isn't worth the effort to link Recount in Heroic Dungeons and it is rare to have someone do so. So, this argument that people will go nuts and post their damage everywhere is largely nonsense.

 

I can't help but feel that the people in opposition to this have never played an MMO PvE endgame for more than a week. Recount is an incredibly useful tool and Bioware would be foolish to omit it to cater to people that aren't the tool's target audience in the first place.

 

 

I agree with you that this is a very useful tool in a raiding environment. I am in favor of it being implemented for that purpose. However, contrary to what you are saying about Recount being largely ignored in WoW OUTSIDE of raiding, well, I just need to flatly disagree with you.

 

I played wow since Burning Crusade and raided as a healer all through Wrath. I don't know what server you played on, but Recount was bandied about ALL OVER the place by EVERY level, no matter the setting, in random dungeons. It was used to kick people unfairly from groups. In heroics there is ALWAYS that guy spamming the dps, like it even mattered. If you can sit there and tell me this wasn't a problem in WoW, then let me express my envy that you resided on a server free from it.

 

Bottom line: a tool like Recount is very useful...but only to a select demographic of players. Level capped, raiding players. The problem I have with it being implemented is that it will be abused by those who would abuse it to wrongfully kick people from groups. That's a big problem.