I think SWTOR just had bad luck with its timing

[WickedDjinn]

Oh no the rushed Christmas release was perfect timing for maximum sales.

 

It was. As far as maxing sales and initial subs.

[SerikFox]

It seems to me that many of the watermarks of MMORPGs are on their way out as we transition into a new era. Basically, I would liken SWTOR to a game released at the end of a console's lifespan.

The genre is moving in a direction of doing away with the monthly sub model, the traditional hotkey based combat, the strict class roles.

I think SWTOR just got caught in a bad time. The game comes out with a lot of stuff that's about to be on its way out. It's not like back in 2007 they should have been out to reinvent the wheel. What had worked was working, and it didn't make sense to think to completely uproot everything that is an MMORPG. But by release that wasn't the case, obviously.

 

I mean, at the end of the day, I unsubbed because I empathized with the sentiment that this game feels incomplete.

I do feel like with the videos that came out in the 3 years before launch, our minds built up or were built up to an image of a 2012 Lamborghini, and when the game launched we realized it was a 1995 Ford Explorer. I also feel like they tried to release this game with a "Minecraft" production model- but without telling us. The game does feel like a paid alpha to me, and even a die hard follower (and CE owner) of this game like me can only buy into "It'll be complete and good, just keep paying us and wait" for so long.

 

But I'm diverting topic. What do you think about the timing? The game has a lot of problems, I could go on forever. But what I think is that the big problem with SWTOR is that it was released too incomplete in a time where its format was about to become obsolete. It just doesn't have much going for it.

 

Anyway I want to hear your thoughts..

 

I'll say this; I really don't know who thinks the format is obsolete. A few people do it seems, but most of the people I've spoken to don't. I still go and play Mario Kart '64 when I get a chance and so does almost everyone I know - I don't feel that this "old format" is a problem for the game. People like me very much enjoy the "old formats". I still like most Xbox and PS2 games more than I like 360 and PS3 games. Hell, I still even have a Sega Genesis. There is a sizable market for games like this. I like this style of game a great deal. The game itself has flaws, there are bugs, but the foundation is solid and they can make it work if they do their jobs well. I don't think most of my guild would go to a "newer" format for a mmo. After so many years on games like this it's hard not to like the format. The newer formats will win out eventually, but for the time being, there are a lot of people who enjoy this type of game. Specifically, I see a lot of potential in this game and I think it can easily be a success. (unless swg was to somehow restart; my entire guild would be headed back "home" then lol. I would kill for a version of swg with this game engine. So few bugs in comparison).

[Tuscad]

The only thing bad about its timing was releasing it when it wasn't ready and not updating it in a timely manner.

[Aerevan]

The game was outdated by the time they released it. They were too late on that aspect and too soon in terms of their development progress.

[Beermefatty]

First, SWG had a better Star Wars Universe (in my opinion), if one wants to talk about MMOs.

 

Second, it's not clear at all that the poster you are responding to has unrealistic expectations. What is clear is that most complaints, suggestions, and criticisms of and about the game aren't derived from unrealistic expectations. Several threads and hundreds of posts have clarified that expectations for this game are grounded in MMO precedent, previously honed game-play design, adequate customer service experiences, and efficient and effective implementation of features.

 

Perhaps you simply don't expect anything, and are thus constantly pleased. That's a good way to be, I'll admit.

 

^ This Cerion. You keep responding to my posts with abstract questions and providing nothing to support your argument. I could not have said it better than the poster above.

 

SWG had the best Star Wars universe in my opinion, and KOTOR was even better ( although not an MMO ) than SWTOR .

 

You mention the release of WoW. Yes, it had lots of problems, but at the time, the genre was in its infancy. What could you compare it too at the time? UO, SWG, EQ, maybe even Neverwinter Nights? Since then many MMO's have been developed. WoW was the first to pull so many subscribers because they delivered a quality product. They really set a standard for what MMO's should be in terms of level of service, performance, and fun.

 

When a game like SWTOR comes around with all of its bugs, poor customer service, and lack of forsight. . . yes people are going to leave. A paying customer has every right to have high expectations, especially when you look at the players involved.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Beermefatty

[reaperkeepet]

If this game came out 3 or 4 years ago, it probably could have and would have been doing much better then it is now - if they changed some of their archaic design philosophies it might have been a smash hit.

 

 

Unfortunately, it didn't, and here we are.

Ifs, buts, if if if, but, if buts, if, but but but if if if... Seriously...

[SerikFox]

^ This Cerion. You keep responding to my posts with abstract questions and providing nothing to support your argument. I could not have said it better than the poster above.

 

SWG had the best Star Wars universe in my opinion, and KOTOR was even better ( although not an MMO ) than SWTOR .

 

You mention the release of WoW. Yes, it had lots of problems, but at the time, the genre was in its infancy. What could you compare it too at the time? UO, SWG, EQ, maybe even Neverwinter Nights? Since then many MMO's have been developed. WoW was the first to pull so many subscribers because they delivered a quality product. They really set a standard for what MMO's should be in terms of level of service, performance, and fun.

 

When a game like SWTOR comes around with all of its bugs, poor customer service, and lack of forsight. . . yes people are going to leave. A paying customer has every right to have high expectations, especially when you look at the players involved.

 

I disagree on swg; it had the worst star wars universe. I loved the game, it was a great game, but things like "death troopers" and the stupid holiday celebrations along with the fat stormtrooper (I will never forgive SOE for that) and the whole "anyone can be a jedi in a time that jedi are totally illegal part" killed it as far as how good of a star wars universe it was. I liked Kotor's universe the best. SWTOR is up there on my list though; it's after Kotor 2 for me. Swg hit he bottom of the list. For death troopers and the fat stormtrooper, it is forever banished to the bottom of that list. It was not really Star Wars.

 

Don't get me wrong though, if swg were to somehow restart I'd be back on it hugging my ship and kissing my mando armor while crying like a 13 year old girl at a Justin Bieber concert.

[Goretzu]

Not sure how the bar has been set with past games? The bar for what? By all reasonable accounts the launch of SWTOR has been one of the most successful in MMO history. People enjoyed the content so much, they became addicted to it and flew through the content at lightning speed (only to complain about it later). So again, what bar? Is it the bar in which 1.3 million subs gives SWTOR the second highest subscription rate in NA/EU? That's a pretty impressive bar. Is it the bar that realizes SWTOR as one of the most impressive Star Wars universes created?

 

Granted, people aren't willing to pay for a game that hasn't met their unreasonable expectations. That much is clear. But you can't say 'most' people see SWTOR as not delivering. You have no factual evidence for that statement, no data to back that up. The best you can say is 'many'.

 

 

 

It's not unreasonable to expect a game advertise to have RvR to have RvR.

 

The problem is then after people realise what it hasn't got, the staticness really shines through.

 

And I'm not sure SWTOR is one of the most impressive SW universes ever created, I've played several single player SW games where the world felt at least as alive and considerably less static.

 

Compared to SWG, it does feel like a series on unconnected movie sets, rather than worlds or a living galaxy.

[Beermefatty]

I disagree on swg; it had the worst star wars universe. I loved the game, it was a great game, but things like "death troopers" and the stupid holiday celebrations along with the fat stormtrooper (I will never forgive SOE for that) and the whole "anyone can be a jedi in a time that jedi are totally illegal part" killed it as far as how good of a star wars universe it was. I liked Kotor's universe the best. SWTOR is up there on my list though; it's after Kotor 2 for me. Swg hit he bottom of the list. For death troopers and the fat stormtrooper, it is forever banished to the bottom of that list. It was not really Star Wars.

 

Don't get me wrong though, if swg were to somehow restart I'd be back on it hugging my ship and kissing my mando armor while crying like a 13 year old girl at a Justin Bieber concert.

 

I stopped playing SWG before "death troopers" and fat storm troopers. I think I was around to see the first jedi's start popping up around the world. So my experience was up to that point, and I enjoyed that universe far more than SWTORs.

[SerikFox]

I stopped playing SWG before "death troopers" and fat storm troopers. I think I was around to see the first jedi's start popping up around the world. So my experience was up to that point, and I enjoyed that universe far more than SWTORs.

 

Oh yeah; before NGE it had an awesome universe. I was thinking of the game by the time it ended.

[Ashu-ri]

Wrong.

 

The game has failed. Not just some "people" its more than 50% of game population. The servers are completely empty unless you re-roll on fatman chances are you will never experience Heroics, Operations and Flashpoints.

 

The servers need to merge asap. If servers are not merged asap this game is dead.

 

Not on Fatman, and my server certainly isn't dead. Also have a robust guild that does plenty of raiding. I don't see this as fail.

[Chiramu]

If SWTOR was released in a patch of bad luck, then the new Elder Scrolls Online will be released in an ocean of bad luck considering how far the MMO community has evolved and how late they will be releasing it...

[Nyoro]

TOR released with no pollish and missing key features, that's why people are leaving.

 

If they add the key features quickly then the game will stabalise and might even grow again. They better do it quick though before it's too late.

[JeramieCrowe]

If this game came out 3 or 4 years ago, it probably could have and would have been doing much better then it is now - if they changed some of their archaic design philosophies it might have been a smash hit.

 

 

Unfortunately, it didn't, and here we are.

 

That can still change, though.

[AshlaBoga]

The reall issue is that SWTOR is too similar to WoW. I bought SWTOR because it was Star Wars, but this feels too much like Warcraft: the Old Republic. If I wanted a WoW clone I could have gone the F2P route, there's still time to turn this around but they need to accept that you can't keep 1.3 million subs by copying WoW. They need to make the game ORIGINAL, I liked Guild Wars Prophecies and Factions (never played NIghtfall or GW:EN) because it was a fantastic game that wasn't a WoW clone. Come on BW, clearly you can see that the only thing worse than a WoW clone would be a Champions/DCU Online clone.

[Fyrsong]

I'm still at a loss why servers haven't been merged. It's what the customers wanted. It's what is needed. Yet it hasn't happened. People unsubscribed by the hundreds and thousands, and it still doesn't happen.

 

Developers keep working to add more content, which is great, but at the end of the day, if there aren't people with you when you're online, it should be revamped to be a single player game. Then and only then will it be successful. On new terms.

[Squatdog_nz]

SWTOR could have been released 2 years ago and it would have been a big success. But since that was not possible, they had to release it at the end of 2011.

 

-Monthly subs are going the way of a dinosaur. Of course, they won't suddenly disappear, but this change will be gradual.

 

-Hotkey based combat, a sign of the technical limitations of the past years, is also going the way of T-Rex, making way for more action-oriented combat (see Tera, the only redeeming feature of that game imho).

 

-Small game worlds existed for a reason back in the day, due to tech limitations of the time, but TOR did not advance, did not improve.

 

-The lack of diversity was not such a big problem a few years back, because people were not yet bored with the simplistic combat and standard gameplay (do missions, level up only). Times change, and TOR had the intention to bring something new to the table with space combat. It failed since it was not a good implementation.

 

These are just a few reasons why I feel that SWTOR is a ~2008 quality game.

 

LOL@all of this...

 

SWTOR is going to fail because it was a WoW clone released in an unfinished state by a company inexperienced in MMOs (with several developers head-hunted from the Warhammer Online disaster), with a huge number of game features either missing or poorly implemented.

 

The last three months has been Bioware frantically flailing in an effort to rectify it's mistakes, but it's all too little, too late.

[JeramieCrowe]

Not on Fatman, and my server certainly isn't dead. Also have a robust guild that does plenty of raiding. I don't see this as fail.

 

Agree. Just did a /who on my 15th place TORstatus server: over 200 50s online. Over 60 are in various Operations including Karragga's Palace, Denova, and Eternity Vault, and another 40+ are in various endgame Flashpoints such as Kaon Under Siege.

 

Did a search of 1-49's too. Hundreds. Stopped counting. The Ebon Hawk. 9:35pm CDT.

 

That's in 15th place according to TORstatus.net, that means that at least 14 more servers are better, and reasonably 10 more servers are close.

 

Consolidate all the LIGHT servers, I see at least 50 servers, easy, will be well-populated after transfers, which will improve morale, which will improve some of the "blowing out of proportion" the issues TOR currently has. If people are grouping for content, be it heroics, flashpoints, HMs, Ops, WZ's, what have you, the issues just don't seem as big.

 

Please understand this is all based on my observations over the last few months, so it's anecdotal. This is what I see with my own eyes. I have no agenda, I have no desire to mislead or falsify.

 

In my family, especially my brother and I, we have a saying: "It is what it is." That's it. It is what it is.