Undying Rage is Fine the problem is...

[Gomex]

Marauder, they can leap just the same but also have UR that lets them run through fire like its nothing and a speed boost, already covered that tanks have less survivabilitty then Maras - so I'd pick a Mara.

 

Leap the same....are you serious? We have to rely on the other team's positioning to move foward, not only that deal with a knockback that almost everyone uses after getting charged. That's your team's fault and completely avoidable. Guardians can rely on their own teammates to get to point A to B as well as mitigating damage...oh did I mention they can't be CC'ed after a charge to set the momentum going?

 

Either one will do the job, again marauder is capable of lasting as long if not longer while waiting for help. Higher DR CDs and a mini vanish.

yes

 

That's why marauders solo one side of voidstar and novare's coast right? Ops ALONE can bring a marauder down to 30-50% just on the opener...also without the ability to pop any defensive cd in the meantime I should add...trinket you say? ya I'll do that as he flashbang/caps right in front of my face giving me the only time to call for incoming.

 

 

They never go immune to damage or invisible and can be focused easily and are interruptible themselves - point being with all their burst, they die just as easily as they kill.

 

You're wrong, They can be rooted/stunned for the duration of their UR...That alone pretty much nullifies the whole point of the cd and left with even less hp than before when used. Sins can also walk through fire literally without any worries of being CCed or knock backed. Guess I should start crying about sorcs because they can kite me all day while being in the same state as immune to your melee damage

 

 

I said Marauders do highest dps in the game, so yes, by extension that includes assassin tanks and Dec / Inf spec which is a glass cannon - unlike marauderss

 

Pure dps class that has highest damage in melee range? You're a genius to figure that out...especially comparing to sin tanks. Did you know sins can remove dots as well as take less than 2k damage from our hardest hitting attack with considerable cd(massacre)? You mention later in the post I am not a stealth class....who is contradicting themselves again? Oh I might add infil gets the opener, they also have the luxury to pick their targets from stealth....oh did I mention they have 2 stuns?

 

 

Lol ***, everyone can do it, as long as you're not in combat. Assassin has to use two long CD - longer then UR to 100% gt out of combat and not repop due to a dot. What's your point?

 

Everyone can do it? There's a huge difference in getting out of stealth and dropping combat than a mini vanish and waiting to drop combat after dots are ticking....huuuuuge difference. Also stating it's a 1v1 cause that's all marauders look for in WZs right? Where did you get the idea marauders get out of combat after using UR?, are the teams your playing with really that bad they won't notice a red glowing marauder with 1-2k hp left to finish him off?

 

You're not a stealth class, you shouldn't even have that to begin with, and you're contradicting your previous question about assassin vanish.

 

I was making a point about nerfing marauders because I'm not a stealth class. Thanks for proving my point

 

Play OP or sin if you think it's that awesome, though I will warn you - stealth in ToR doesn't matter from closer then 20m.

 

I have, and you're wrong. Not only do you get a stealth talent to increase stealth, but you also get blackout to increase stealth even more. Also Vanish increases stealth largely. Just because you get brought out by being in the most obvious spot doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Don't compare your awareness to mine and especially have the right to speak for the rest of sin/shadows out there. I might add they also have the advantage of attacking points with openers and delayed incoming calls with their openers from the opponent teams. Where as a marauder can be seen across the map. Add another stealth to the stealth class and you have a game changing comp that can easily turn the tides of the game.

 

Look at coefficients exp gives to Damage and the to dr and healing, if you have to ask again, you need to go read a book or 100.

 

Ya, you're right for once, except the part where you left out Sorcs/Ops/Guardians/Sins got this buff

 

Anything else?

 

Ya, every point you made was countered because you didn't know the other person's class

 

"I just don't know how you want it sliced so that you get it."

 

You couldn't have said it better

[mjohnsonfhk]

oh i like this... trying to deflect how overpowered undying rage is by comparing it to another ability that isnt nearly as OP in hopes of getting that nerfed.

 

I like your strategy good sir

[Uchoo]

I would like the ability more on my Jugg personally. Straight DR and backlash damage. It's powerful, but it falls off after 8 seconds if you don't take damage.

[DarthChosen]

Lots of people have been complaining about the Undying Rage ability on the marauder when all you have to do is cc them when they use it and then use a ranged ability and kill them as soon as the cc is over...really not that bad.

 

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

Please feel free to Rate this so it can get more attention from Bioware.

Post your thoughts here.

 

Any sentence that beings with any ability is a moronic statement in my opinion. Lets address powertechs or the tanks with guard automatically getting 16 medals in winning game without trying. Before the hate comes I am not a 13 year old Marauder fanboy. Sorc Heals is my main, Operative deeps secondary, and lastly yes a marauder. But I will be honest I take down Marauders quite easily and "kiting them" on my sorc is not that bad if your team as a whole plays decent pvp Marauders are actually weak sauce having medium armor allows them to melt like butter. Take their healer down first then them CC undying rage boom done. I can tell you from experience only 1 marauder can take me down and granted he's in full war hero. So instead of telling devs what they need to do to fix marauders learn to play the game or complain about a class that is actually op PT. Getting slowed, stunned, and stunned again in fire and taking 0 dmg is a bit ridiculous to me. Even then PT are not that bad because from every MMO including EQ-WoW has had a class someone considers OP its called being your counter in this case a Marauder can be a bucketload of peoples counter. But crazy thing is a Marauder can destroy another marauder crazy world isnt it.

[SinnedWill]

Give marauders some talents for passive survivability, remove cloak of pain and undying rage activated abilities and guess what, marauders/sents will cause even MORE issues than before. I'd certainly prefer passive (less significant, mind you) on my marauder (carnage) compared to the activated abilities despite less significant values. Activated abilities require activation, and all of them are only used situationally (can't pre-cast them like many other classes for much -if any- effect) - furthermore, activating these abilities causes brief moments (many of which might be key moments where we could have been dishing out significant DPS if we didn't have to stop to activate them).

 

Not every marauder/sent happens to be annihilation/watchman spec, so we don't all benefit from them as significantly due to self-heals. Something I can agree to is the suggested reduction in healing received when Undying Rage and Force Camo are active (99% and 50% respectively) since we can receive significant healing when they are activated - and annihilation/watchmen specs currently reap the most significant boosts to their survivability due to self-healing with them.

[SinnedWill]

I would like the ability more on my Jugg personally. Straight DR and backlash damage. It's powerful, but it falls off after 8 seconds if you don't take damage.

 

Falls off after 6 seconds (if you aren't struck) and Juggs have more effective means of survivability as Vengeance and Immortal specs even without their activated defensives (vengeance's comes from talents tied in to abilities, Immortal gets the flat innate damage reduction from stance, more/improved CC, and a nice activated). Rage Juggs are squishy, yes, but they certainly don't lack survivability with proper application of abilities (particularly charge-push-charges and intercede - which every jugg can do, but certainly needs to rely on them with more effective application for survivability).

 

Only tank class that lacks SOME survivability via passives/actives happens to be pyro powertechs (which can still get enough via talents - i.e. extra armor from 7 points in tank spec, and energy shield cooldown reductions from pyro spec) - Advanced Prototype specs are lacking in the "face-tanking" department, but their survivability comes from mobility - which they excel at).

 

Marauders/Sents are not god-mode - even with all of their defensives off cooldown, and usually a mara/sent DPS is poor when they don't have them since they'll die before they can actually unleash their best cycles - maras/sents DO excel against teams that lack dps and happen to be healer heavy - these teams are rather infrequent (in my experience), however, and these are the only times maras/sents should top the damage charts in a WZ - (and that's only if the enemy team has bad tank classes that aren't throwing out taunts every cooldown).

[dcgregorya]

Can they spam an attack at greater than 4m melee range = Ranged.

 

Pure win. Wish you were on my server.

[anarchythreeotwo]

I won't get into the overpoweredness of any abilities here, but I have always felt that Cloak of Pain is a more powerful cooldown than Undying Rage.

 

In a big brawl it's pretty hard to get it to drop off your potential enemy marauder target. You can personally leave them alone for 6 secs and attack someone else for a bit, hoping it drops, but someone else touching them will refresh it too. All the scattered AOE damage classes throw around regularly can make it pretty fruitless.

 

Agreed with what is being said here by Shadow.

 

Aside from that, Mara has the most OP Defensive cooldowns in game lol.

 

• Cloak of pain (Basically 20% damage reduction every 30 sec)
  
• Obfuscate -- I believe 90% accuracy reduction on target
  
• Undying Rage (Unkillable for 5 sec, every 45 sec)
  
• Saber Ward - 50% ranged/melee reduction 25% tech/force for 12 secs
  

 

Seriously, what other class in the game gets these cooldowns? No tanks get these type of cooldowns, Tankasin gets similar OP CD's, but they also dont have THE BEST DPS IN Game.

 

Mara's get it all. The best Defensive CDs in game, The best DPS In game (Single Target with DOTs), Unkillable for 5sec. List goes on and on.

[Daecollo]

Oh so most of their abilties are at 4m???

 

Sorry to break it to you, 4m is melee.... 10m to 30m is ranged...

 

Stealth Operative Abilities are all 4 meters, except rifle shot.

Stealth Operatives do not have any healing abilities/must be behind the target or stealthed to use most of their abilities.

Stealth Operatives do not have anything keeping them alive.

 

There IS no Team of Stealth Operatives.

 

 

Stealth Operatives

- Rifle Shot (Never ever use this on Marauders, it will kill you.)

 

Marauders have more Ranged Abilities then Stealth Operatives do.

- Force Leap x2

- Saber Throw

- Force Choke

- Scream

- Reflecting Attacks back.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Daecollo

[SinnedWill]

Agreed with what is being said here by Shadow.

 

Aside from that, Mara has the most OP Defensive cooldowns in game lol.

 

• Cloak of pain (Basically 20% damage reduction every 30 sec)
  
• Obfuscate -- I believe 90% accuracy reduction on target
  
• Undying Rage (Unkillable for 5 sec, every 45 sec)
  
• Saber Ward - 50% ranged/melee reduction 25% tech/force for 12 secs
  

 

Seriously, what other class in the game gets these cooldowns? No tanks get these type of cooldowns, Tankasin gets similar OP CD's, but they also dont have THE BEST DPS IN Game.

 

Mara's get it all. The best Defensive CDs in game, The best DPS In game (Single Target with DOTs), Unkillable for 5sec. List goes on and on.

 

Cloak of Pain CD = 60s (30s of off-time if you could keep it up the entire time - usually only happens when a long duration DoT is put on you)

Obfuscate is short range single target (good luck getting it on a sniper/slinger that has you pinned at long range).

Undying Rage - 5s 99% damage reduction, costs 1/2 current health, so it typically gets saved for <30% HP, which results in people that know what they're doing simply saving a stun until they can burst the mara dead thus effectively ignoring it - 1m15s CD (with gear set bonus to reduced its CD) Undying Rage can be talented to 45s cooldown if you're Rage spec (and have gear set bonus), but rage is the easiest spec to counter now - should only get 1 empowered smash off per life.

Saber Ward - M/R dodge + 50%, force/tech damage -25% 12s, 3 minute CD - always off cooldown, and should only be used when you have snipers/slingers/maras/sents on you - the damage mitigation alone isn't worth wasting it and even used properly still typically results in death.

Force Camo - You forgot this one - Easily the best CD we have.

 

Give maras/sents some passibe survival abilities and take our active abilities - I'll happily trade them - passives (even at lower values) > active abilities. Activating passives delays our damage-dealing, and none of mara/sent activaded defensives should be pre-cast. Outside of Force camo, they're all used situationally (retroactive, typically, based on situation and/or discovery of every enemy class you're facing). We benefit significantly from healing during force camo/undying rage (including self-healing if annihilation specced, so I and others have suggested healing received reductions during those).

 

-Combination of 45s Undying Rage + DoT's alone makes this poster use a 31/31/31 build as reference.

And Tankassins/shadowtanks have passive defenses maras don't even come close to matching (even with half our activateds up) and arguably better (again situational). Lastly, their burst dps is actually close to that of a marauder (recklessness consumed energized shocks, maul procs, etc, harnessed darkness FL, damage procs, etc. and many other things like taunts, guard, self-healing -which annihilation/watchman has- debuffs attached to abilities, etc.).

Edited May 21, 2012 by SinnedWill

[dcgregorya]

Agreed with what is being said here by Shadow.

 

Aside from that, Mara has the most OP Defensive cooldowns in game lol.

 

• Cloak of pain (Basically 20% damage reduction every 30 sec)
  
• Obfuscate -- I believe 90% accuracy reduction on target
  
• Undying Rage (Unkillable for 5 sec, every 45 sec)
  
• Saber Ward - 50% ranged/melee reduction 25% tech/force for 12 secs
  

 

Seriously, what other class in the game gets these cooldowns? No tanks get these type of cooldowns, Tankasin gets similar OP CD's, but they also dont have THE BEST DPS IN Game.

 

Mara's get it all. The best Defensive CDs in game, The best DPS In game (Single Target with DOTs), Unkillable for 5sec. List goes on and on.

 

1) Assuming you're continually attacked. 6 seconds of downtime (like between every fight or after stealthing, etc) removes it. In the best possible scenario this puts them on par with having heavy armor (extra 5% passive defense).

2) For 6 seconds, assuming they even care about accuracy, which many classes do not.

3) Losing half your health. Also, it is 60 seconds for pure focus build, 90 seconds for everyone else. Not 45 seconds. I forgot about the famous 31/31/31 marauders out there. They're tough to fight.

4) 3 minute cooldown. You can use this maybe 3 times in a warzone.

 

Honestly, posts like yours make me want to smack all the people who complain about FOTM rerollers. Please, roll a sentinel or marauder to 50 and try it out. I have, I die just as often with them as I do my assault spec vanguard or gunslinger. I put out the same amount of damage, same amount of kills. I'm significantly better at some things and worse at others. Their cooldowns make up for the fact that they soak a lot of AOE damage and fire from the sidelines when attacking people. But feel free to prove me wrong by playing it yourself.

[SinnedWill]

Stealth Operative Abilities are all 4 meters, except rifle shot.

Stealth Operatives do not have any healing abilities/must be behind the target or stealthed to use most of their abilities.

Stealth Operatives do not have anything keeping them alive.

 

There IS no Team of Stealth Operatives.

 

 

Stealth Operatives

- Rifle Shot (Never ever use this on Marauders, it will kill you.)

 

Marauders have more Ranged Abilities then Stealth Operatives do.

- Force Leap x2

- Saber Throw

- Force Choke

- Scream

- Reflecting Attacks back.

 

Force leap x2? ***? Obliterate is a Rage specced ability, which I assume you might believe to be the 2nd force charge - it's a <10m range, so it's medium range at best - only charge/leap have 30m range.

Saber throw, scream, choke are all 10m.

Reflected attacks (while cloak of pain is up) - this damage is pitiful.

 

Ops/Scounds have 10m slow, 30m mez, 30m auto-attacks, a 30m DoT, 30m explosive probe, 30m AoE (best IMO - despite the activation time - should use it while in cover if you're in the open), and yes, 30m abilities that SHOULDN'T be used due to damage values per energy cost, so we can exclude those (though snipe can be useful on occasion) - furthermore, you can take cover and do all this if you have a mara/sent is DoT'd up and slowed while you wait for your melee range window to return. Yeah, ops/scounds (lethality) still have more (effective and ineffective) ranged attacks compared to maras/sents - mara/sent has force charge/leap ONLY at 30m - and if you use cover effectively, they can't charge you.

[Anishor]

Lots of people have been complaining about the Undying Rage ability on the marauder when all you have to do is cc them when they use it and then use a ranged ability and kill them as soon as the cc is over...really not that bad.

 

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

Please feel free to Rate this so it can get more attention from Bioware.

Post your thoughts here.

I was in beta when we didn't have this, they added it for a reason both in PVE and PVP.

[SinnedWill]

I was in beta when we didn't have this, they added it for a reason both in PVE and PVP.

 

Again, the only things I can suggest with any viability to counter the complaints about mara/sent activated defenses is:

1.) Give us talents for Passive survivability (less significant compared to the values of our actives) and remove SOME of our activated defensives.

and/or

2.) Reduce healing received during undying rage and/or force camo (though this will significantly hurt annihilation/watchman survivability in groups without healers - it IS a bit much how effective these are when we have a good healer in the group with us, since both abilities can bring a marauder back to full health with proper timing on the healer's behalf).

[Uchoo]

2.) Reduce healing received during undying rage and/or force camo (though this will significantly hurt annihilation/watchman survivability in groups without healers - it IS a bit much how effective these are when we have a good healer in the group with us, since both abilities can bring a marauder back to full health with proper timing on the healer's behalf).

 

Just for Watchman/Annihilation? It hurts all specs equally. Annihilation has self-heals for passive survivability, the other specs don't have anything. There's a tiny amount of flat DR in Rage and a move speed increase/aoe damage reduc in Carnage, but the aoe reduc is very accessible for any spec.

[EnddGame]

 

They might be the most annoying class to play against, but that is not a valid reason for a nerf.

 

.

 

^^ this made me laugh. isnt that the exact reason they nerfed ops to the ground?

[TexasJediKnight]

I'm pretty sure Camo dumps aggro back to 0 in pve anyways so in pve it'd just make the healer have to wait 4 seconds... which he could die in that time or when it wears off he could die.

 

 

 

Everything is fine with marauders. If i have to react to your skills and things you do to beat your class you should have to react to mine and yes that does include blowing cooldowns and cc's.

 

Whenever a marauder uses ravage on me i camo it.

Whenever a marauder pops undying rage on me I choke him through it.

 

^that stuff isn't hard to do. How any ranged class lets anyone get ravage/master strike off on them is just stupid because as melee i can get around it 100% of the time.

 

Why would you have aggro the TANK would.

[TexasJediKnight]

oh i like this... trying to deflect how overpowered undying rage is by comparing it to another ability that isnt nearly as OP in hopes of getting that nerfed.

 

I like your strategy good sir

 

So a Def cooldown that reduces ALL damage taken by 20% and does damage every 1.5 secs while active and can pretty much be 30 secs long making it half the cooldown which is already low, so they have that pretty much the whole game. The way to counter UR is to CC and EXACTLY after you use a ability and BAM he's dead he has No time to camo away.

[TexasJediKnight]

Any sentence that beings with any ability is a moronic statement in my opinion. Lets address powertechs or the tanks with guard automatically getting 16 medals in winning game without trying. Before the hate comes I am not a 13 year old Marauder fanboy. Sorc Heals is my main, Operative deeps secondary, and lastly yes a marauder. But I will be honest I take down Marauders quite easily and "kiting them" on my sorc is not that bad if your team as a whole plays decent pvp Marauders are actually weak sauce having medium armor allows them to melt like butter. Take their healer down first then them CC undying rage boom done. I can tell you from experience only 1 marauder can take me down and granted he's in full war hero. So instead of telling devs what they need to do to fix marauders learn to play the game or complain about a class that is actually op PT. Getting slowed, stunned, and stunned again in fire and taking 0 dmg is a bit ridiculous to me. Even then PT are not that bad because from every MMO including EQ-WoW has had a class someone considers OP its called being your counter in this case a Marauder can be a bucketload of peoples counter. But crazy thing is a Marauder can destroy another marauder crazy world isnt it.

It's funny how every marauder says L2P acting like nobody knows how to play. Ya okay we get on each other I KITE AS A JUGG to get his CoP to wear off OH BUT WAIT some AoE damage or some idiot refreshed it, so it finally wears off, then we both get low because by now we should both be low...and he pops UR and Saber Ward thats what I've been saving my CC for and he Reflects my vicious throw camo's away, I lose target and then I die. I'm sorry but we have to start somewhere and CoP is the worst because no DPS melee class should that many and good Defensive CD's.

[TexasJediKnight]

Cloak of Pain CD = 60s (30s of off-time if you could keep it up the entire time - usually only happens when a long duration DoT is put on you)

Obfuscate is short range single target (good luck getting it on a sniper/slinger that has you pinned at long range).

Undying Rage - 5s 99% damage reduction, costs 1/2 current health, so it typically gets saved for <30% HP, which results in people that know what they're doing simply saving a stun until they can burst the mara dead thus effectively ignoring it - 1m15s CD (with gear set bonus to reduced its CD) Undying Rage can be talented to 45s cooldown if you're Rage spec (and have gear set bonus), but rage is the easiest spec to counter now - should only get 1 empowered smash off per life.

Saber Ward - M/R dodge + 50%, force/tech damage -25% 12s, 3 minute CD - always off cooldown, and should only be used when you have snipers/slingers/maras/sents on you - the damage mitigation alone isn't worth wasting it and even used properly still typically results in death.

Force Camo - You forgot this one - Easily the best CD we have.

 

Give maras/sents some passibe survival abilities and take our active abilities - I'll happily trade them - passives (even at lower values) > active abilities. Activating passives delays our damage-dealing, and none of mara/sent activaded defensives should be pre-cast. Outside of Force camo, they're all used situationally (retroactive, typically, based on situation and/or discovery of every enemy class you're facing). We benefit significantly from healing during force camo/undying rage (including self-healing if annihilation specced, so I and others have suggested healing received reductions during those).

 

-Combination of 45s Undying Rage + DoT's alone makes this poster use a 31/31/31 build as reference.

And Tankassins/shadowtanks have passive defenses maras don't even come close to matching (even with half our activateds up) and arguably better (again situational). Lastly, their burst dps is actually close to that of a marauder (recklessness consumed energized shocks, maul procs, etc, harnessed darkness FL, damage procs, etc. and many other things like taunts, guard, self-healing -which annihilation/watchman has- debuffs attached to abilities, etc.).

 

Don't try to relate that ability to a class like that to make it not seem as good.

[TexasJediKnight]

1) Assuming you're continually attacked. 6 seconds of downtime (like between every fight or after stealthing, etc) removes it. In the best possible scenario this puts them on par with having heavy armor (extra 5% passive defense).

2) For 6 seconds, assuming they even care about accuracy, which many classes do not.

3) Losing half your health. Also, it is 60 seconds for pure focus build, 90 seconds for everyone else. Not 45 seconds. I forgot about the famous 31/31/31 marauders out there. They're tough to fight.

4) 3 minute cooldown. You can use this maybe 3 times in a warzone.

 

Honestly, posts like yours make me want to smack all the people who complain about FOTM rerollers. Please, roll a sentinel or marauder to 50 and try it out. I have, I die just as often with them as I do my assault spec vanguard or gunslinger. I put out the same amount of damage, same amount of kills. I'm significantly better at some things and worse at others. Their cooldowns make up for the fact that they soak a lot of AOE damage and fire from the sidelines when attacking people. But feel free to prove me wrong by playing it yourself.

 

Most Mara's use it under like 30% so it just takes them to One hp so for 6 secs they can maul longer and camo away, because if they wouldnt have used that at 30% they would have been dead way faster.

[TexasJediKnight]

I was in beta when we didn't have this, they added it for a reason both in PVE and PVP.

 

I didn't say to remove it.

[criminalheretic]

It's funny how every marauder says L2P acting like nobody knows how to play. Ya okay we get on each other I KITE AS A JUGG to get his CoP to wear off OH BUT WAIT some AoE damage or some idiot refreshed it, so it finally wears off, then we both get low because by now we should both be low...and he pops UR and Saber Ward thats what I've been saving my CC for and he Reflects my vicious throw camo's away, I lose target and then I die. I'm sorry but we have to start somewhere and CoP is the worst because no DPS melee class should that many and good Defensive CD's.

 

I don't tell people L2P, in fact that is something of a rule of mine, never to use that term, because I think it is douchey, and doesn't actually support whatever point you are trying to make.

 

I tell people learn your class role. And if your class has a role or duty to fulfill beyond winning 1v1 fights, don't get mad when you lose a 1v1 fight against a class that has no other role or duty than winning 1v1 fights.

 

You have an ability to protect someone other than yourself. We only have abilities to protect ourselves.

 

You have an ability to heal yourself and a bunch of other people. We are built to damage 1 person.

 

You have an ability to spam AOE. We are built to damage 1 person.

 

You can attack from far away. We have to be up in a single enemies face.

 

People don't seem to get the idea that if you want to do something other than kill individual people, you have to give something up in return.

 

Why do Marauders have better defensive CDs than a healer? Because we traded them for the ability to heal.

 

Why do Marauders have better defensive CDs than a PT? Because we gave up heavy armor and the ability to spam AOE.

 

Why do Marauders have better defensive CD's than a Tank? Because we gave up the ability to protect, taunt etc.

 

Why do Marauders have better defensive CD's than a Sniper? Because we gave up the ability to attack people who can't hit us back.

 

Why does a Marauder have better defensive CD's than an Op? Because we gave up the ability to chain stun or hang out in stealth guarding or even capping objectives. (I know they can't cap while stealthed, but the ability to get all the way to the obj without being seen is a pretty big deal)

 

When you lose a fight to a Marauder, it's not because he is OP, it's because he is fulfilling his basic responsibility, and he gave up the ability to do any/all of those other things, for 3 defensive cds and an escape, just to be able to kill you, or give up on killing you. That's balance.

Edited May 22, 2012 by criminalheretic

[Temeluchus]

All the Sent/Mara hate, tears and cries about how OP we are, will probably result in us being nerfed and broken from the nerfs. Don't think Maras can be broken? Ask a long term beta tester what life as a Mara was like when we didn't have Fury,Berserk,Predation and Bloodthirst. Don't think a class can be broken by nerfs? Go talk to an Operative/Scoundrel.

 

I'll be disappointed if we get nerfed into obscurity since I have had a Mara as a main since long term beta, but I'll just quietly go about doing ridiculous amounts of burst and overall damage in pvp on my PT since barely anyone on the forums says boo about them.

 

Bandwagon mentality in MMOs is getting tiresome, I'm convinced half the people posting in threads like these have no idea what they are talking about but decide to complain about Maras/Sents because their friends, guildmates or some random dude on their server they respect is complaining about Maras/Sents.

[Tatebomb]

Still think you guys are QQing over nothing really. Sometimes my sent or vanguard feels like the ultimate power in the universe and other times it's a faceroll. It all depends on your TEAM! You may be the best sent in the game but if you got 7 noobs with you none of the "OP" matters. PvP isn't a 1v1 affair and classes reflect that. Edited May 22, 2012 by Tatebomb