Ratajack Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Blizzard never tried to fix their populations. Like I said, fix the populations first and cross server will not be needed. This isn't wow, and this isn't rift, don't need to do it how they do it. Be a first mmo to close down servers to fix a problem instead of ignoring it and applying a bandaid. And the incentives for wow were added way after cross server was added. The point of this is to fix deserted servers. Do that and there is no need for cross server. Perhaps you don't remember or you weren't there for all the free server transfers that Blizzard offered from low pop servers to higher pop servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Since it hasn't even been implemented yet, a little hard to say one way or the other. That being said, since single server is not what the whiners want, it will not even be given a chance to succeed. I hope I am wrong, but I seriously doubt that I am. I would bet that the first "We told you so, BW" post hits the forums within an hour of the LFD tool going live. Any takers? I'm going by experience here. Two other MMO's have tried the single-server idea, it failed and so they went cross-server. They had better populations than this game does currently. Nothing is stopping you from playing the game for which you pay. There are solutions to every problem. Look at the solution, not the problem. You're on a low populated server? Reroll to a higher populated one. You're not sure which server on which to reroll? Make toons on several and get an idea of the average population during the times you generally play, and choose the most populated server. You want to just log in and get an instant group? Try joining a guild or make some friends and form a new guild. If the only effort you choose to make to solve any problems you may perceive with this game is to come to the forums and whine about how this or that is needed, then expect to get no sympathy from those that chose to solve those same problems. Your solutions have one issue to them. Telling someone who has a level 50 character to simply 'start again' somewhere else is not encouraging in the slightest. "Well done for spending weeks/months grinding up your character to the top level and spending as long as you can trying to gear him. Now abandon all that and start again!" no they'll just quit. Which is what a very large amount of people have done. Your suggestions, I'm afraid, are not solutions. They are to some players a large middle finger. A 'not my problem deal with it' style response that you may think sounds helpful, but it really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 You hope. But hey...time proves all things. If they add it before my sub runs out this Aug..then I can see for sure. But I have this feeling..... And for another thing..I am not transfering. I like my server and am going to stay because I will not change my char's names. Right now the game only lacks one thing for me and that is the lack of a timely tool to get into end game content. And if BioWare wants to keep me as a paying sub, then they need to provide me with that tool or it is adios. Don't let the logout screen hit in the rear on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Except it is an automatic queue system that greatly helps instance group finding, thereby helping people see the content built for them. Nobody is forced to be a part of the community and I never suggested they should be. Community was such a minor part of my post that I'm very confused on how you misconstrued it so badly. You are also greatly underestimating the usefulness of a same server lfg system. No idea what youre trying to say in your first sentance, but it sounds like support for cross server lfg. And im really confused when you say "Community was such a minor part of my post that I'm very confused on how you misconstrued it so badly" the only arguement i saw you make against a cross server tool was about wrecking the community. And if i am greatly under estimating the usefulness of a same server tool, why has it never worked in any game before? I have pointed out 5 very obvious reasons why it wont work and ive yet to see one person point out a hard fact about swtor that would suggest a same server tool will work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Perhaps you don't remember or you weren't there for all the free server transfers that Blizzard offered from low pop servers to higher pop servers. I remember Blizzard offering transfers off overflowing servers to low pop servers. I moved from a high pop server to a new server to help with balance. Then my server became a low population server down the road, and the only way for me to move off was to pay to transfer. Transfers off low-pop servers without closing those low pop servers isn't a fix, because people will still play on those low pop servers. If they want to transfer people off low pop servers to higher population servers, power to em. But close down the low pop servers so that people are FORCED to move off to a place with more population, to fix the population problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 One of you anti cross server people just give me one fact about swtor that makes it possible for a same server lfg tool to work here when it hasnt worked in any other mmos before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Since it hasn't even been implemented yet, a little hard to say one way or the other. That being said, since single server is not what the whiners want, it will not even be given a chance to succeed. I hope I am wrong, but I seriously doubt that I am. I would bet that the first "We told you so, BW" post hits the forums within an hour of the LFD tool going live. Any takers? How many examples of it failing in other games that were more same server lfg friendly do you need until you would say, yeah lets not bother trying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Well i will give you props, atleast you tried to come up with reason, better than anyone else has done. But the facts are they went to cross server because the time to find a group in game was taking too long. not going to search it out but i played both games when they went cross server and that was the reason they gave. And i have no idea how cross server lfg is going to affect world pvp, ignoring the fact that there really isnt any in this game anyway and hasnt been, the best way they can fix that is with cross server zone instancing, which will also fix empty leveling zones. First, define "too long". Second, WHY did it take too long? What was the root cause, not the symptom? Was it because WOW was in it's third expansion? If so, then maybe a single server tool along with server transfers, for those willing to transfer, might work. Why not wait and see? Of course, those that choose not to transfer and to remain on a low pop server, may find a single server tool less effective. That does not mean that a cross server tool is needed, only that some may choose not to utilize an effective solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgoldsack Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 One of you anti cross server people just give me one fact about swtor that makes it possible for a same server lfg tool to work here when it hasnt worked in any other mmos before. What makes you think it won't work? No company has tried to do with in combination with transfers and merges. That is what I am asking them to try first before they put in cross server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 A simple fact...SINCE WOW INTRODUCED LFD IT HAS LOST 2.2 MILLION SUBS...FACT:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 First, define "too long". Second, WHY did it take too long? What was the root cause, not the symptom? Was it because WOW was in it's third expansion? If so, then maybe a single server tool along with server transfers, for those willing to transfer, might work. Why not wait and see? Of course, those that choose not to transfer and to remain on a low pop server, may find a single server tool less effective. That does not mean that a cross server tool is needed, only that some may choose not to utilize an effective solution. We are waiting to see, they are not releasing a cross server tool. Rift waited and tried a same server tool first, everyone left, then they came out with same server tool that works very well, its till alive but not as alive as it was when they missed the boat with the cross server tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 In what game with cross server lfg can you not put people on /ignore and never group with them again? And its just my opinion too but ive never seen a wow server with a real community, maybe its because i have seen old games before wow that had communities and i actualy know what they are. If community to you is endless chuck norris spam and putting (anal) in front of random pieces of linked gear, then you can keep it. Like the majority of people in mmos since large guiilds destroyed the server communties in eq1 my guild is my community. I don't know how long you played WOW, but if it was for any time prior to WOTLK, then you had a much different community experience than I did. I played on several servers on both factions from launch date up to now. I have been on both ends of the raiding spectrum, as well. I was a raid member of one of the top two or three progression guilds on one server, and have been in small casual guilds on others. I can definitely tell you that prior to LFG and especially LFG, there was a strong community on every server I played on, regardless of the faction. People knew who the good people to group with were, and those that were not. If you were on the "do not group with" list, then yes, finding a group was nigh on impossible. On the other hand, if you weren't on that list, then finding a group was much easier, especially if you had friends, or your friends had friends. That is not to say a person could always find a spot in the latest tier raids, or newest dungeons. But finding a group for a dungeon was by no means impossible or even difficult at that time, which was prior to the LFG tool. This was also before paid server transfers, and paid name changes. Those paid services also had a detrimental effect on server communities, as it became possible hide your past, either by name changing or server transferring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) What makes you think it won't work? No company has tried to do with in combination with transfers and merges. That is what I am asking them to try first before they put in cross server. Im only making the list again because i can just copy and paste it: Wow and rift both have much higher server population caps than swtor does and they still had to go to cross server. Wow and rift both have room in groups for one more dps than swtor does and they still had to go to cross server. Wow and rift both have multiple spec features and they still had to go to cross server. Wow and rift both have significant incentives for people to do the lfg content and they still had to go cross server. And yes im sorry but the other companies did try it with server transfers and merges. Edited May 18, 2012 by Mallorik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegedeluxe Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) We are waiting to see, they are not releasing a cross server tool. Rift waited and tried a same server tool first, everyone left, then they came out with same server tool that works very well, its till alive but not as alive as it was when they missed the boat with the cross server tool. Same server simply will not work and I hope BioWare realizes it and delays the patch to make the lfd cross-server. But looking at how bioware has implemented changes to their game, it looks like are dead-set on repeating every mistake done in the mmo scene. Edited May 18, 2012 by siegedeluxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 A simple fact...SINCE WOW INTRODUCED LFD IT HAS LOST 2.2 MILLION SUBS...FACT:D Really? so you think that the burning crussade (same server lfg tool) or at any time before had moire subs than wrath of the litch king (cross server lfg) or cataclysm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Same server simply will not work and I hope BioWare realizes it and delays the patch to make the lfd cross-server. But looking at how bioware has implemented changes to their game, it looks like are dead-set on repeating every mistake done in the mmo scene. Yeah i really hope they do too. its kind of fun arguing with these people and try to find out what mystical place they get their beleifs from but in the end i hope the devs dont get their ideas from that same place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Don't let the logout screen hit in the rear on the way out. This is why the so called " community " in TOR is no different than any other MMO. You are going to have those who donot care about others no matter what. But with a cross server LFG tool, I can continue to play the game in spite of them. I have found the ignore list to work very well in WoW. It is one less jerk to worry about running with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Really? so you think that the burning crussade (same server lfg tool) or at any time before had moire subs than wrath of the litch king (cross server lfg) or cataclysm? Change the argument all you like Fact is: Since WoW launched it's Looking for Dungeon tool...it has lost 2.2 Million subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegedeluxe Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Change the argument all you like Fact is: Since WoW launched it's Looking for Dungeon tool...it has lost 2.2 Million subs. Which has nothing to do with the LFD in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Which has nothing to do with the LFD in itself. You have proof it didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Thank you for your response. I see your point. I am going to respond to what you said but this in no way directed at you. I am just curious. If there was an "option" to be Single Server Search or Cross Server Search, wouldn't the people that want to form a community be more likely to just use the Single Server Search option and those that just want to group no matter who is in the group just natureally divide? Wouln't those that wanted a community to form just naturally gravitate together? If this isn't the case and those that claim to want a community would just use the cross server option to get a group regardless of who they are playing with, can they make the argument that it must be single server only because hey, the option to cross server was there and I was sooooo tempted ... Darn you BW you tempted me away from forming a community? I still don't see why there couldn't be an option to use both. Lazy players are lazy, right? If those that claim to want community but are too lazy to use the single server option or are too weak willed to avoid the temptation of using the cross server option why should BW be the police to manage their predilictions? Kinda a nanny state mentality if you think about it. IMHO in MMORPGs options are better than no options. That would depend on how the option would be implemented. If it groups within server first, so that the people who queue cross server are more likely to be grouped with people from the same server, then that might be an acceptable compromise. If, on the other hand, the system creates two pools, one single server and one cross server, that would more than likely effectively remove single server as an option. Knowing how prevalent the instant gratification crowd is, why would I queue single server when I know that the vast majority are going to be queued cross server, thereby removing them from the pool I could be grouped with? IMO, a single server tool offers the best solution. It allows for groups to randomly assembled from all those on the server who are queued while not forcing players who wish to group only with those from their own server to group with other servers, either by design or accidental consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Change the argument all you like Fact is: Since WoW launched it's Looking for Dungeon tool...it has lost 2.2 Million subs. Changing what arguement? youre either rmisinformed or just flat out lying. it had what? 8 million? when burning crusade released with a same server lfg tool. went up to 12 million before cata released and cross server had been in for a year or more? now its down to 10.2 million Please point out where they lost numbers when they introduced the cross server tool. Edited May 18, 2012 by Mallorik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Its a wee lil thing called quarterly reports. WotLK did no release with LFD...came months after it released. If you look at those reports...Since the LFD was released... WoW lost 2.2 million subs. Edited May 18, 2012 by Taorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 IMO, a single server tool offers the best solution. It allows for groups to randomly assembled from all those on the server who are queued while not forcing players who wish to group only with those from their own server to group with other servers, either by design or accidental consequence. And if you can point out to me when and where they have worked before or why they would work in swtor when they dont in others, ill agree. And btw id be really happy to be proven wrong about the same server lfg tool not working, all i care about is that people get groups and stay happy to pay for a game that i want to see alot of content and expansions from. And im sure it will work ok during prime time for a couple of weeks after its released, I just dont want to see another too little too late story like Rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Its a wee lil thing called quarterly reports. WotLK did no release with LFD...came months after it released. If you look at those reports...Since the LFD was released... WoW lost 2.2 million subs. If you look at the subscription graphs WoW didn't start losing 2million subscribers until 1 year after LFD was released. Get your facts straight, you're embarrassing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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