>> How To Nerf Marauders Without Losing Subscriber Base

[Xerain]

I do need that too, but i have neither your burst, nor your survivability, nor your get out of jail card, nor your over the top cooldowns.

 

You have the same burst potential (rage spec)

You have the option to become more tanky (immortal)

^ so you can do those two things just as good or better.

 

I can't taunt, I can't guard, I can't use a shield, I don't have a charge to friendly target, I don't have heavy armor.

 

And I don't want any of those things, they're great for your class and op'ed in the right situations. If you want to play a marauder play a marauder and if you want the abilities a marauder has play one. The things you have for yourself and your team are pretty ridic but I'm not calling nerf for those (like guarding a healer and spreading damage across two people).

[alcek]

You have the same burst potential (rage spec)

Nope. I dont have your offensive cds.

You have the option to become more tanky (immortal)

More tanky? You mean, 1 cooldown on 3 min cd? Traded for being totally harmless to the point of just ignored otherwise?

^ so you can do those two things just as good or better.

Wrong. You have better burst, and you are never harmless.

I can't taunt, I can't guard,

Team play? When i taunt, swap to me and kill me, very fast, the way only your class does. But this is what only good players do.

I can't use a shield

Because shield means sooooo much in pvp, but how are you to know...

 

I don't have a charge to friendly target

You have camo, use it defensively. But anyway, here you have a point to some extent.

I don't have heavy armor.

5-6% difference with me? That's huge.

 

I don't think my class is bad. I even think at times it is a bit too good. But all these doesn't justify YOUR class, which is way over the top.

[mikedee]

Before 1.2 we can blame ops for stun locking and killing people for losing subs. Post 1.2 you can switch that to maras ravaging people for losing subs....

[GrumpySwe]

You have the same burst potential (rage spec)

You have the option to become more tanky (immortal)

^ so you can do those two things just as good or better.

.

 

Ridiculous rage spec is crap, easily ignored by someone that knows how it works. And it still doesn't have your burst apart from not having anywhere close to your survivability. Rage spec juggs die like flies.

 

Immortal is great, but the only reason you survive longer is that you have far more group control, if your focused your dead all the same. When focused a marauder can easily survive longer than even a tank specced jugg.

[Xerain]

Ridiculous rage spec is crap, easily ignored by someone that knows how it works. And it still doesn't have your burst apart from not having anywhere close to your survivability. Rage spec juggs die like flies.

 

Immortal is great, but the only reason you survive longer is that you have far more group control, if your focused your dead all the same. When focused a marauder can easily survive longer than even a tank specced jugg.

 

hey it offers the same burst potential that rage spec marauder does. That's what i was saying.

[Xerain]

Nope. I dont have your offensive cds.

 

What offensive CD's do i have? i wish i had 6 rage instantly on a 1 minute cd again, or saber throw back on a 30 second cool down >.<

 

More tanky? You mean, 1 cooldown on 3 min cd? Traded for being totally harmless to the point of just ignored otherwise?

 

Pretty sure you get more mitigation in the tree too and another stun and a choke that you no longer have to channel. Both help keep damage off of you.

 

Wrong. You have better burst, and you are never harmless.

 

you're only harmless when you're dead or CC'ed. Doing damage is doing damage.

 

Team play? When i taunt, swap to me and kill me, very fast, the way only your class does. But this is what only good players do.

 

Because shield means sooooo much in pvp, but how are you to know...

 

Well with the current influx of marauders your shield should actually mean a lot now since most of our damage is weapon damage and Tanks, no matter the spec, are never quick kills. Like I don't see the small damage numbers i'm doing to an immortal jugg, shield tech vanguard, or darkness assassin compared to everyone else. C'mon now you act like you just get shredded in the 6 seconds your taunt is up but hey if your'e taunting to pull damage away from someone you're doing your job because it's most likely a healer or a ball carrier and then that means they're free to gain ground and or heal. I'm not sure why you're crying here.

 

 

You have camo, use it defensively. But anyway, here you have a point to some extent.

 

5-6% difference with me? That's huge.

 

I don't think my class is bad. I even think at times it is a bit too good. But all these doesn't justify YOUR class, which is way over the top.

 

I do use camo defensively and offensively...

 

Isn't it more if you're tank spec? and 5-6% difference... damage reduction is damage reduction.

 

Marauders aren't and never have been over the top. Well let me rephrase that. Against bad players a good player is always over the top.

[alcek]

Xerain, i did play about 1-1,5 months as pure tank. There wasn't much difference in my survivability, because the spec itself doesnt give a lot. Yes, there comes something like 10% damage mitigation, and the armor bonus of being in soresu. I fact, the only good thing that keeps you alive longer is 1 talented 3 min cd, and your hard cc's, these are the hilt strike, and the unchanneled force stasis. Also, keep in mind, that being in tank spec+soresu form, while being in dps gear, makes you very weak offensively, to the point of being harmless as i said previously. My biggest crits were reaching ~2-2.2k, with most attacks non-crit doing around 1.2-1.6k. Yes, being a tank doesnt mean that you also hit like truck, but the survivability you gain, and the utility you gain aren't a good trade-off. Been there, seen it. You are a cc-bot walking punching bag. Yes, a bit durable and annoying, but that's it.

If you spec correctly as a guardian, you will be more mobile than a tank build one /mobility can be used defensively too, like slow-zealous leap run away, or even zealous leap- fear - run away/, you can also guard and taunt, and you are a threat to the enemy. Being dps spec as a guardian gives you a versatility that a pure tank build doesn't have.

Also, when a marauder fights a tank, he has something to bypass the defenses and the armor - his dots. And they do quite some damage by themselves, don't forget that.

 

The 5-6% difference in dmg taken between a mara and a guardian armor is if the guardian is in either shii-cho or shien form. Only when he is in soresu the armor goes up, and if the guardian uses a shield, but not a focus /shield gives ~200 power less i think, and adds shield chance+absorb, considered quite useless, because they activate only on white damage/.

Edited May 18, 2012 by alcek

[Xerain]

Xerain, i did play about 1-1,5 months as pure tank. There wasn't much difference in my survivability, because the spec itself doesnt give a lot. Yes, there comes something like 10% damage mitigation, and the armor bonus of being in soresu. I fact, the only good thing that keeps you alive longer is 1 talented 3 min cd, and your hard cc's, these are the hilt strike, and the unchanneled force stasis. Also, keep in mind, that being in tank spec+soresu form, while being in dps gear, makes you very weak offensively, to the point of being harmless as i said previously. My biggest crits were reaching ~2-2.2k, with most attacks non-crit doing around 1.2-1.6k. Yes, being a tank doesnt mean that you also hit like truck, but the survivability you gain, and the utility you gain aren't a good trade-off. Been there, seen it. You are a cc-bot walking punching bag. Yes, a bit durable and annoying, but that's it.

If you spec correctly as a guardian, you will be more mobile than a tank build one /mobility can be used defensively too, like slow-zealous leap run away, or even zealous leap- fear - run away/, you can also guard and taunt, and you are a threat to the enemy. Being dps spec as a guardian gives you a versatility that a pure tank build doesn't have.

Also, when a marauder fights a tank, he has something to bypass the defenses and the armor - his dots. And they do quite some damage by themselves, don't forget that.

 

The 5-6% difference in dmg taken between a mara and a guardian armor is if the guardian is in either shii-cho or shien form. Only when he is in soresu the armor goes up, and if the guardian uses a shield, but not a focus /shield gives ~200 power less i think, and adds shield chance+absorb, considered quite useless, because they activate only on white damage/.

 

Orly?

 

and if you're shii-cho form you get another 5% damage reduction for using the stance...

 

Oh and you're def sitting at if not more than 40% armor in your tank

 

Also it looks to me that all the jugg tank gear and dps gear have the same armoring stats so even in the dps gear with a tank spec you're going to have stupid high amounts of damage mitigation from your armor all the time, so don't tell me armor doesn't matter when you're hitting high enough levels like that.

[DarthChosen]

1. Redesign Undeying Rage / Guarded By The Force:

• Reduce All Damage Taken -AND- Healing Received by 99%
  or
  
• Reduce Damage Done by 50% for it's duration
  or
  
• Deflect Either White -OR- Yellow damage abilities for the duration, Not Both[/u].
  or
  
• Make it a guaranteed death at the end of the duration
  

 

2. Redesign rage cost of interrupt and duration of 20% healing debuff

• Make Marauders interrupt ability cost 2 rage & decrease the duration of the 20% heal debuff. As it stands now, these 2 abilities are far to easy to use and don't require any skill to coordinate. You can keep the 20% heal debuff on a player indefinitely, instead of timing it precisely when you need to burn your target down. The interrupt feels like a free lol @ casters ability and costs no talent points or rage to use, which means a Mara can just hit any buttons they want and not have to worry about having enough resources to be able to lockout another class.
  

 

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A marauder at say 2k health that uses this cooldown feels like there is no risk involved in the 50% health sacrifice (ok I am at 2k, so I am going to die anyway, lets sacrifice 1k health which is irrelevant at this point) and then is healed to or above 50% or has about 3 extra globals to finish off their target whom cannot do damage to them and has to sit through it. There is no other class in this game that has an almost 99% immunity cooldown to both White & Yellow Damage attacks.

 

Examples:

Assassin Defensive Cooldown Force Shroud - Only stops Yellow Damage (Tech) for a few seconds

 

Imperial Agent Defensive Cooldown Evasion - Dodges all White Damage (Melee/Ranged) for a few seconds

 

The Marauder cooldown should mimic one of the above so that they are still killable just like everyonebody else. As it stands now, you can beat a marauder 1v1 by LOSing during their defensive cooldowns and or CCing them during it. However, a team of say 6marauders and 2healers vs 6ranged and 2healers will present a significant problem due to the 20% healing reduction, multiple defensive cooldowns, and everytime they vanish, your target becomes another marauder with the same defensive cooldowns up, and they can interrupt and lockout ranged classes from doing their damage. Obviously, 6 of any class will be hard to go against, but especially classes with multiple defensive cooldowns to delay death. 6marauders on a team might be an extreme case, but I imagine seeing 3-4 on many teams.

 

I do believe that making some of these changes will not drop your marauder subscription numbers and should prevent a larger group of subscribers from canceling their subscriptions from Marauder QQ.

 

Im sorry any person that begins a thread with "how to nerf" is trash in my eyes. I am not doubting your skills as a player because I have not seen you in action but obviously you are sub-par. A marauder is easy to take down if you know how just being honest they are the one class w/out a stun or cc making it easy to avoid the Undying Rage. They may take down their opponent on occasion but most of the time they don't. Also what lvl is your Mara bc if your taking pre 50 into account thats irrelavant they are not going to balance this game around a bolster mechanic. On another note unless you have designed MMO's or a seriously successful video game you should not be on the forums telling devs how to improve this game through your eyes. Crying for nerfs is not the solution to any game.

"There will always be a class you consider OP bc it is your counter so stop crying"

[V-Serp]

I do use camo defensively and offensively...

 

Isn't it more if you're tank spec? and 5-6% difference... damage reduction is damage reduction.

 

Marauders aren't and never have been over the top. Well let me rephrase that. Against bad players a good player is always over the top.

 

lol it's funny you say that now, because I remember arguing with you about how effective that ability is offensively. I'm just going to chalk that up to us just misunderstanding each other in the past though.

 

Marauders are unquestionably a strong class and allow skilled players to perform better. Some people call that a higher skill cap. I consider the skill cap for this game low across the board so I look at it more as versatility and having options to use. Maybe it's the same thing to people, I just know I can do more with a Marauder than I can with a Sage or a Commando or even a Vanguard. I'm still working on my Operative so I have no opinion on that really, but right now I still feel like my Operative does have some nice options too.

 

You give good players options and they will find a way to make them work, and they'll perform well. You take those options away and it's harder to really out perform because you just can't really do anything differently than everyone else. The game is simple enough as it is, so what little complexity there is to some classes really makes a big difference.

 

Bioware's current design philosophy appears to be to REMOVE options and make all the classes homogenous. Not only is that boring, but it removes what little skill there is more and more. Hence why, although I do think Marauders are one of the stronger classes, I have no faith in Bioware actually bringing classes to tighter balance because I know their solution will be to just destroy the class.

 

TLDR: Marauders are strong because they have options, where other classes do not. Whether it's OPed or not is moot because Bioware's "balancing" would just make the game more boring, rather than improving other classes to make them more fun, so crying for a nerf probably wouldn't even help.

[UGLYMRJ]

Marauders serve their purpose... as a marauder I have ONE stun which I can't even call a stun and ONE break. My stun leaves me in place and vulnerable making it pretty much only good for my cooldowns to catch up. 1v1 I'm beast... but squishy if targeted by 2-3 or more. I can't even count how many times I've been damn near shut down by a smart team that stuns me over and over. With the proper team work and coordination... we can be shut down. Stun me once... wait for me to break. stun me again... I'm done for the duration of your stun. Not going to say marauders aren't beast... but so are the other classes when used PROPERLY. We have our weaknesses and until you use one most probably won't recognize those weaknesses.

[Gomex]

You realize guardians are more role players than marauders right?

 

They're tank class, don't even know why you mention their dps...that's like trying to compare an hybrid sorc heals/dps with full madness.

 

They are also more of a game changer. Guard on ball carriers or healers makes a huge difference. Being able to withstand a cap long enough for teammates to come also makes a huge difference. Leaping after getting knockbacked off a ledge with immunity to snares/roots/ccs is huge in huttball.

 

Pretty sure healers appreciate tank guard more than marauders tunneling dps on somebody who is usually isn't even on him.

 

With a healer dispelling dots(which will be very easy to call out comes rated...when pvp matters) you you can /lol at a marauder anytime you want.

 

My marauder who has both wh weapons+ 3-4 pieces hit a guardian last night for 800 massacre..he didn't even have any cds popped(stacking power and surge to 75%)....I wonder how he did it.

 

Just because you played guardian as pure tank for a month doesn't qualify you to speak for the rest of tanks out there. I've seen plenty of tanks that forces me to avoid them and go on their healer(which is usually positioning well and makes me los my own healer and get nuked to death or pop valuable cds...they're unkillable when they're surrounded by their team(which will be normal for rated as well).

 

You ever watch hoodrych play warrior in WoW arenas? Tanks should take notes and use leap to a healer to get topped off by a pillar I might add (slow/forcepushing any inc charge from marauders does wonders)

 

The worst thing about guardians in this game is the ones who complain the most are the ones who go out in the open thinking OK I'M A TANK, I CAN SURVIVE A WHOLE TEAM ATTACKING ME RIGHT?

 

Just like every good pvper knows...positioning and awareness is what separates good from bads.

 

In conclusion, a objectively played guardian (especially rated) will win more games than a marauder who only had high dps. Should add that marauders will even do less dps if they actually play more objectively. Why? They actually have to move around and tunnel objective points. For example, hutball will require more dealing with knockbacks off ledges and chasing ballcarriers(which has a lot of defensive cds usually) around and peeling players off your ball carrier. Novares requires a lot of running from A to B...if you tunnel dps you're losing valuable dps that's needed elsewhere to defend a cap or assault. Civil war is the same. Just about the only zone that marauders stand out is voidstar and that's where UR can buy that extra time for soloing that last defender on a side or come out of stealth to interrupt 5 guys trying to cap while the team is waiting to respawn.

 

I'm pretty sure UR hasn't saved as many games as guard...50% dmg reduc flat aside from expertise dmg reduc..not even going to include the other variables.

 

Like I said before, UR is a defensive cd that enables us to give us a 5 sec extra dps window to make a kill or interrupt objective caps(trinket needed considering all the inc stuns). It doesn't clear dots as well. It only saves you for that 5 second so vanishing after can easily result in death with dots ticking.

 

So why is it surprising that marauders whose only role is entirely dps gets an extra 5 second window to dps?

 

Any of you who mention WHAT IF THERE IS A POCKET HEALER NEARBY THAN IT'S TOO OP

 

Well ya, just like guardians are able to give 50% dmg reduc to anybody and have the highest mitigation with their role of lasting longer. Or ops able to shut down player with a stun/flashbang assuming he trinkets then vanish with the role of CC and strong single target burst. Or Sorcs able to do dmg while completely LoS of you mitigating ALL dmg aside from dots ticking on him/her and even knocking you back when you finally can touch him while slowed with the role of making you say THAT ******E.

 

Marauders have the least amount of control of any class and rely purely on dps to get the job done. One defensive cd that enables them to put out 5 sec window of extra dps doesn't make the class broken.

 

Jeezus people cried less about cloak of shadows in WoW and it even clears dots+plus no health loss with a class that has most control lol.

[DkSharktooth]

If a Marauder is using Undying Rage, they were already about to die, because it removes 50% of their HP and is normally used at low HP. This means the healers would be scrambling to get them topped off. If the healers can no longer heal the marauder during this emergency, the healers have wasted their resources on the Marauder, when healing resources are at a prime in endgame fights. It would make Marauders undesirable in PvE, because of the risk that he will be a bad player and pop Undying Rage at all. It's difficult to tell when a Marauder is using Undying Rage when you are a healer, and even if you wait the 6s like you should, that marauder might now die from a random AoE, meaning you couldn't have saved them unless you were a Sorc.

 

Thank you for pointing this flaw out. I have updated the original post to omit this specific suggestion. Please check out page 1 again.

[Xerain]

lol it's funny you say that now, because I remember arguing with you about how effective that ability is offensively. I'm just going to chalk that up to us just misunderstanding each other in the past though.

 

Marauders are unquestionably a strong class and allow skilled players to perform better. Some people call that a higher skill cap. I consider the skill cap for this game low across the board so I look at it more as versatility and having options to use. Maybe it's the same thing to people, I just know I can do more with a Marauder than I can with a Sage or a Commando or even a Vanguard. I'm still working on my Operative so I have no opinion on that really, but right now I still feel like my Operative does have some nice options too.

 

You give good players options and they will find a way to make them work, and they'll perform well. You take those options away and it's harder to really out perform because you just can't really do anything differently than everyone else. The game is simple enough as it is, so what little complexity there is to some classes really makes a big difference.

 

Bioware's current design philosophy appears to be to REMOVE options and make all the classes homogenous. Not only is that boring, but it removes what little skill there is more and more. Hence why, although I do think Marauders are one of the stronger classes, I have no faith in Bioware actually bringing classes to tighter balance because I know their solution will be to just destroy the class.

 

TLDR: Marauders are strong because they have options, where other classes do not. Whether it's OPed or not is moot because Bioware's "balancing" would just make the game more boring, rather than improving other classes to make them more fun, so crying for a nerf probably wouldn't even help.

 

The skill is better saved to use defensively then offensively and if it's used offensively, like to close a gap on a target it's usually a sniper but that's also kind of a defensive move also.

 

Every class is strong in the hands of a good player. You play your class well, you play well with your team, and you focus on winning objectives and you can show how a class shines and sure not all classes shine in the same way but they all shine (even grimped dps commandos).

 

And you can do a lot with a sage that you can't with a marauder and things that can help a team out massively.

[HurricaneXXIV]

Because people can't figure out how to handle a 5 second buble they need to be nerfed? I can leg shot a sent/mara and take two steps back and be healed to full. Is that game breaking?

[mikedee]

Because people can't figure out how to handle a 5 second buble they need to be nerfed? I can leg shot a sent/mara and take two steps back and be healed to full. Is that game breaking?

 

Back pedal much? I heard all the pros do it!

[alcek]

Xerain, i will explain about the armor once more, because i am a nice guy.

We are talking about the armor and only it. Not stance bonuses.

If a guardian ISN'T in soresu, the difference between his armor and marauder's armor in mitigation is 6.5% /using same lvl of gear, this was calculated somewhere in the forum, too lazy to search it/.

Other forms DO NOT INCREASE ARMOR. They have other benefits. And SHORTCOMINGS too.

Or shall i cry about your talent, the 30% aoe-reductor, that makes my sweeps from 6k to 4k, and this is my biggest hitter, which needs set-up + relic + adrenal, that can reqire quite a preparation to execute.

[LiveandDieinLA]

SOme classes in this game are, what military strategists refer to as "force multipliers". Tanks and healers especially fill this role, as their group synergy makes them much stronger in a group setting than alone. This is a fact, and the game has to be balanced around this.

[Derian]

You realize guardians are more role players than marauders right?

 

They're tank class, don't even know why you mention their dps...that's like trying to compare an hybrid sorc heals/dps with full madness.

 

They are also more of a game changer. Guard on ball carriers or healers makes a huge difference. Being able to withstand a cap long enough for teammates to come also makes a huge difference. Leaping after getting knockbacked off a ledge with immunity to snares/roots/ccs is huge in huttball.

 

Pretty sure healers appreciate tank guard more than marauders tunneling dps on somebody who is usually isn't even on him.

 

With a healer dispelling dots(which will be very easy to call out comes rated...when pvp matters) you you can /lol at a marauder anytime you want.

 

My marauder who has both wh weapons+ 3-4 pieces hit a guardian last night for 800 massacre..he didn't even have any cds popped(stacking power and surge to 75%)....I wonder how he did it.

 

Just because you played guardian as pure tank for a month doesn't qualify you to speak for the rest of tanks out there. I've seen plenty of tanks that forces me to avoid them and go on their healer(which is usually positioning well and makes me los my own healer and get nuked to death or pop valuable cds...they're unkillable when they're surrounded by their team(which will be normal for rated as well).

 

You ever watch hoodrych play warrior in WoW arenas? Tanks should take notes and use leap to a healer to get topped off by a pillar I might add (slow/forcepushing any inc charge from marauders does wonders)

 

The worst thing about guardians in this game is the ones who complain the most are the ones who go out in the open thinking OK I'M A TANK, I CAN SURVIVE A WHOLE TEAM ATTACKING ME RIGHT?

 

Just like every good pvper knows...positioning and awareness is what separates good from bads.

 

In conclusion, a objectively played guardian (especially rated) will win more games than a marauder who only had high dps. Should add that marauders will even do less dps if they actually play more objectively. Why? They actually have to move around and tunnel objective points. For example, hutball will require more dealing with knockbacks off ledges and chasing ballcarriers(which has a lot of defensive cds usually) around and peeling players off your ball carrier. Novares requires a lot of running from A to B...if you tunnel dps you're losing valuable dps that's needed elsewhere to defend a cap or assault. Civil war is the same. Just about the only zone that marauders stand out is voidstar and that's where UR can buy that extra time for soloing that last defender on a side or come out of stealth to interrupt 5 guys trying to cap while the team is waiting to respawn.

 

I'm pretty sure UR hasn't saved as many games as guard...50% dmg reduc flat aside from expertise dmg reduc..not even going to include the other variables.

 

Like I said before, UR is a defensive cd that enables us to give us a 5 sec extra dps window to make a kill or interrupt objective caps(trinket needed considering all the inc stuns). It doesn't clear dots as well. It only saves you for that 5 second so vanishing after can easily result in death with dots ticking.

 

So why is it surprising that marauders whose only role is entirely dps gets an extra 5 second window to dps?

 

Any of you who mention WHAT IF THERE IS A POCKET HEALER NEARBY THAN IT'S TOO OP

 

Well ya, just like guardians are able to give 50% dmg reduc to anybody and have the highest mitigation with their role of lasting longer. Or ops able to shut down player with a stun/flashbang assuming he trinkets then vanish with the role of CC and strong single target burst. Or Sorcs able to do dmg while completely LoS of you mitigating ALL dmg aside from dots ticking on him/her and even knocking you back when you finally can touch him while slowed with the role of making you say THAT ******E.

 

Marauders have the least amount of control of any class and rely purely on dps to get the job done. One defensive cd that enables them to put out 5 sec window of extra dps doesn't make the class broken.

 

Jeezus people cried less about cloak of shadows in WoW and it even clears dots+plus no health loss with a class that has most control lol.

 

Best post ever. I have a tank as well I last ridiculously longer than my Sent.

[Adzzy]

reduce undying rage to 3 seconds, put an increased duration talent in carnage, return force camo to 100% damage reduction...then put camo and undying rage on a shared cooldown.

 

Then it becomes about "do i want to go from A to B with my survivability cooldown" or "do i want to be able to output damage with my survivability cooldown"

 

8 to 10 second extension on TTK with the burst windows in this game is just plain silly.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Adzzy

[Xerain]

reduce undying rage to 3 seconds, put an increased duration talent in carnage, return force camo to 100% damage reduction...then put camo and undying rage on a shared cooldown.

 

Then it becomes about "do i want to go from A to B with my survivability cooldown" or "do i want to be able to output damage with my survivability cooldown"

 

8 to 10 second extension on TTK with the burst windows in this game is just plain silly.

 

not how camo is always used but ok... and why nerf the duration on ud and put their cd's shared, thats just dumb.

[Adzzy]

not how camo is always used but ok... and why nerf the duration on ud and put their cd's shared, thats just dumb.

 

no its not how its used, but that's the point....if you want to use it offensively, you lose your defensive option and vice versa (as much fun as divine shield -> BoP was, having the option to follow into the other was always dumb), the way those cooldowns can be and are used is the problem.

 

When you have maps like void star (45s assault with 8s channel cap), one class being able to string out the whole team for 10 seconds plus is the design equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Then there's those rage guys, both classes, they need something like a talent that gives 10/20% defense, 5/10% force/tech resist and reduces cooldown of Saber Ward by 1.5s 50/100% of the time you deal damage (Saber Ward being a flat 3 min cooldown is pretty terrible)

Edited May 19, 2012 by Adzzy

[TexasJediKnight]

Nope. I dont have your offensive cds.

 

More tanky? You mean, 1 cooldown on 3 min cd? Traded for being totally harmless to the point of just ignored otherwise?

 

Wrong. You have better burst, and you are never harmless.

 

Team play? When i taunt, swap to me and kill me, very fast, the way only your class does. But this is what only good players do.

 

Because shield means sooooo much in pvp, but how are you to know...

 

 

You have camo, use it defensively. But anyway, here you have a point to some extent.

 

5-6% difference with me? That's huge.

 

I don't think my class is bad. I even think at times it is a bit too good. But all these doesn't justify YOUR class, which is way over the top.

 

What this guy said, I agree.

[ehtom]

These posts have gotten completely out of control. You guys may as well just say "DELETE MARAUDERS OMG!!!1111".

[V-Serp]

You are all over these forums dude so its what like Pretty much the rest of the pop. in SWTOR against the maraduer class that doesn't want a nerf...sorry man its already been confirmed that your class is gettiing a nerf and if you can't see why by now then well there's no hope for you and you have 2, and I repeat 2 of the same class!

 

Not anytime soon, no. They only nerf operatives every patch. They've stated they like where PVP balance is right now and that they don't see any problems with it. The last time they said that, it was about Sorc/Sage, and we all know that nerf didn't come until 1.2, a good 5-6 months after launch (more time if you count beta testing).

 

If Marauders will be nerfed, I wouldn't expect it until maybe the end of the year, at the earliest. By then though this game will likely be F2P so it probably won't be a big deal.