lxlPaniklxl Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 It's not an "exploit" for someone to comprimise their own enjoyment of the game in order to insure a team objective. If there weren't players willing to sit and guard the "home" points then they'd just get stealthed and you'd lose even faster. Those players that choose to guard safer objectives deserve the medals/rewards they get, because they're performing a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Ya, they should take medals away from defending points so everyone abandons them and the other team can easily cap it. That makes sense. This isn't death match- it's objective based, so you reward based on objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciferhawke Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 heh I feel ya. Sometimes I wonder why I even try to do something in CW when I get more medals/rewards just standing at empty objective. Usually I run to mid, kill something for fun, get killed then run on owned objective and get rewards. But it is only CW. Other WZs are not that easy. uhhhg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supafreak Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 You did a good thing. It sucks to not see action sometimes but if you didnt get rewarded for defending a node, nobody would do it. Only capped nodes get you points and they deprive the enemy of those same points, and you made sure your team was constantly outputting damage on the enemy ship when noone else would And you were rewarded for it GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Man you guys are just bad, I am the one in my guild that takes and holds the first node. I stand there and hold it the whole game and call incs to my team. Is it boring sometimes? Yes. But my team wins civil war 99%. Pull the goalie strat is ftw this way as well because we have a well geared player to pull when its time. Break 2000 objective points and you tell me we arent earning our medals, ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 cant say go fox trot over lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think people that do defend should be rewarded well, even if no one ever comes to take their turret and they just stand there the entire match. In most warzones I get more than 6 medals, so me just standing there would result in less PVP progression for me. Not something I particularly want, but if I'm needed to defend then I'll do it. Obviously you run the risk of too many people just sitting there instead of helping, but there is always going to be a risk of that no matter what. Also isn't that kick feature in the game? Just do that. I don't know what the OP is complaining about. You did your job, you got a reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatkillz Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 And if you think this game has a lot of CC try WoW. You will come back here and be relieved that this game has relativvely few CC here. It's not that this game has a lot of CC, it's that the resolve system is a steaming pile of poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Not intentionally. But I just finished a Civil War warzone. I was one of two players that ran to 'snow' side. Everyone else zerged middle. The other guy with me capped 'snow' then ran to middle leaving me alone to defend. And thats how it played out. I 'defended' the area the whole match. Zero kills. Zero damage. Zero healing. Yes I was completing objectives and should be rewarded but it doesn't somehow feel right. No enemies came and we ended up losing. They had 3 healers we had none. Thats a position you cannot win from. Hell, I didn't even move entire match once positioned. I finished up with 6 medals from defender points, 76 coms, nearly 3k credits and over 2k Valor. All without pressing a single key in anger (or defense). Halfway through the match I was joined by 6 more team mates who thought I might be getting lonely and they all /sit near me to keep me company. Awwwww. And thats what is happening in PvP. Defender Point Grinders. They are a bad as Quitters. This is another nail in the coffin for SWTOR PvP. It is plain stupid to get that number of rewards for doing nothing. You know some matches I play as a healer or some I go on the skirmish and dont always get 6 medals. This is encouraging me to just cap 1 and camp the rest of the match for defender point medals. With the daft reward system, the TTK problem (which is huge), class imbalance, the insane number of knockbacks, mezzes and stuns that keep you from operating your character for far too long, the unfair class advantages some classes have in certain Warzones and the daft gear tiers, SWTOR PvP is the worst MMO PvP I have ever experienced. It needs some serious work. You realize if you got nothing for defending an objective, NO ONE would ever defend an objective? Why is this such a hard concept to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yun-law Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have been in this exact situation many times. I used to stay to the bitter end defending even if we were losing. Now I wait until it is apparent we are going to lose if we don't take another turret and then do the equivalent of taking the goalie out in a hockey game and join the battle at one of the other nodes. I have actually been flamed in chat for doing this and leaving the node undefended. But it seems to me it is worth the risk to provide a chance for a turn around victory. Almost never works....but the other team almost never tries to cap that node anyway if they are too busy defending the two they have. And it's more fun for me. I'm glad you do it. The flamers are not thinking big picture. I do the same thing, but usually I'll tell them in chat I'm doing it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxrynn Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) No enemies came and we ended up losing. They had 3 healers we had none. Thats a position you cannot win from. Hell, I didn't even move entire match once positioned. I finished up with 6 medals from defender points, 76 coms, nearly 3k credits and over 2k Valor. All without pressing a single key in anger (or defense). Halfway through the match I was joined by 6 more team mates who thought I might be getting lonely and they all /sit near me to keep me company. Awwwww. And thats what is happening in PvP. Defender Point Grinders. They are a bad as Quitters. You call them quitters for sitting at the node and racking up defender points yet you just stood there doing the same. Hypocrisy is frowned upon in complaints. It's also the smart thing to do when you don't have enough time for a three cap... I always tell my team to go to the single node we control when I know we won't be able to make a comeback, it's not a matter about quitting but adapting and improvising... Edited May 13, 2012 by Foxrynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrackenOne Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) And thats what is happening in PvP. Defender Point Grinders. They are a bad as Quitters. . To me it's just as bad as sages damaging themselves in a corner then healin' themselves to get 300K+ healing and getting MVP votes, which has been going on since launch. Don't care. Lame players are lame players. Just like the healer that gets shielded thinking they are epic for out healing a non-shiled healer by 100k. All perspective. To me the only thing that needs tweaked is overall damage it's too high. Edited May 13, 2012 by KrackenOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroecon Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 You realize if you got nothing for defending an objective, NO ONE would ever defend an objective? Why is this such a hard concept to understand? Definitely not true. People defended turrets fine prior to 1.1.5. The problem now is that the rewards for defending a turret that is not being attacked are higher than the rewards for attacking a turret being defended by the enemy. It is a frequent occurrance now that team members on a side which is losing will not be rousted/pursuaded to attack and try to win the match. I don't think they need to remove rewards for defending a turret. But they need to be reduced dramatically unless the turret is actually being attacked. Teams can always rotate defenders with newly spawned teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearch Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Simple fix is to split up the defender points at a node. 6 people sitting on a turret wouldn't earn jack crap if split 6 ways Edited May 13, 2012 by Clearch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawfox Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I feel it is a pretty hard task, to be a single defender on a single node, that never ever something to kill comes by. It is a hard task, not to get into the teams facemelting excercises and just sit there and hope, something red comes by. After 5 minutes you already accept 2 or 3 Red's to drop by, just to actually "do" something. No, you are doing infact a nice and hard job, defending one turret against the nothing. That needs to be rewarded in my book .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanoth Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) You call them quitters for sitting at the node and racking up defender points yet you just stood there doing the same. Hypocrisy is frowned upon in complaints. It's also the smart thing to do when you don't have enough time for a three cap... I always tell my team to go to the single node we control when I know we won't be able to make a comeback, it's not a matter about quitting but adapting and improvising... Wrong. And slightly taken out of context. Yes I just stood there. I defended nothing because nobody came to take it away from me. I was, hmmmm, on guard. Yes I was Guarding the node. Defending to me implies some kind of combat, beating back the trespassers. You dont [shouldn't] get anythign for merely guarding. Now if the enemy comes and I fight there, thats a whole new ball game. That is Defending. I did zero defending yet at the end came away with more medals, credits and coms then I sometimes get when I am healing but zerged constantly with no support from my team mates. I was stationery at my node from the start of the match. The other player with me left as soon as he capped, so I stayed and defended, you know out of team spirit and all that. Not because I wanted to grind Defender Point Medals. My comments were intended as slightly sarcastic. But the real thrust of my argument is that SWTOR PvP is seriously flawed in all aspects of it. Its become a right pigs dinner. Okay give a player something for 'Guarding' if thats whats intended but don't make it the free giveaway its become. Players don't co-ordinate, communicate, and are not inspired to try to win because its so damn easy to cap 1 node and then just camp it the rest of the match, go make a coffee, take a pee, check emails, while the medals, coms and creds keep rattling in. Do people actually get where I'm coming from now? I want PvP be great, I really do, but PvP in SWTOR is a shambles in its entirety. Edited May 13, 2012 by Malanoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 If you don't understand why you contributed, you still don't understand objective-based PvP. And you'll continue to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoslion Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Not intentionally. But I just finished a Civil War warzone. I was one of two players that ran to 'snow' side. Everyone else zerged middle. The other guy with me capped 'snow' then ran to middle leaving me alone to defend. And thats how it played out. I 'defended' the area the whole match. Zero kills. Zero damage. Zero healing. Yes I was completing objectives and should be rewarded but it doesn't somehow feel right. No enemies came and we ended up losing. They had 3 healers we had none. Thats a position you cannot win from. Hell, I didn't even move entire match once positioned. I finished up with 6 medals from defender points, 76 coms, nearly 3k credits and over 2k Valor. All without pressing a single key in anger (or defense). Halfway through the match I was joined by 6 more team mates who thought I might be getting lonely and they all /sit near me to keep me company. Awwwww. And thats what is happening in PvP. Defender Point Grinders. They are a bad as Quitters. This is another nail in the coffin for SWTOR PvP. It is plain stupid to get that number of rewards for doing nothing. You know some matches I play as a healer or some I go on the skirmish and dont always get 6 medals. This is encouraging me to just cap 1 and camp the rest of the match for defender point medals. With the daft reward system, the TTK problem (which is huge), class imbalance, the insane number of knockbacks, mezzes and stuns that keep you from operating your character for far too long, the unfair class advantages some classes have in certain Warzones and the daft gear tiers, SWTOR PvP is the worst MMO PvP I have ever experienced. It needs some serious work. Maybe you should have went and helped guarding a turret when your losing like that does nothing to help the team. You could have backed up middle and still kept an eye on the turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elear Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 To counterbalance the "lets all defend then" guys they should up the attacking rewards. Fighting OVER a point should be rewarded as well. Not only capping it. It is. If node is neutral, you get defender points, otherwise attacker points. But is seems to work just like regular defender points at your tower, so you have to stay alive in heat of battle for some time before getting any. I feel it is a pretty hard task, to be a single defender on a single node, that never ever something to kill comes by. It is a hard task, not to get into the teams facemelting excercises and just sit there and hope, something red comes by. After 5 minutes you already accept 2 or 3 Red's to drop by, just to actually "do" something. And if those 2-3 Reds came by stealth, node is as good as lost. So because noone else want to defend against 'nothing', games are lost and won by stealthy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxrynn Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Wrong. And slightly taken out of context. Yes I just stood there. I defended nothing because nobody came to take it away from me. I was, hmmmm, on guard. Yes I was Guarding the node. Defending to me implies some kind of combat, beating back the trespassers. You dont [shouldn't] get anythign for merely guarding. Now if the enemy comes and I fight there, thats a whole new ball game. That is Defending. I did zero defending yet at the end came away with more medals, credits and coms then I sometimes get when I am healing but zerged constantly with no support from my team mates. I was stationery at my node from the start of the match. The other player with me left as soon as he capped, so I stayed and defended, you know out of team spirit and all that. Not because I wanted to grind Defender Point Medals. My comments were intended as slightly sarcastic. But the real thrust of my argument is that SWTOR PvP is seriously flawed in all aspects of it. Its become a right pigs dinner. Okay give a player something for 'Guarding' if thats whats intended but don't make it the free giveaway its become. Players don't co-ordinate, communicate, and are not inspired to try to win because its so damn easy to cap 1 node and then just camp it the rest of the match, go make a coffee, take a pee, check emails, while the medals, coms and creds keep rattling in. Do people actually get where I'm coming from now? I want PvP be great, I really do, but PvP in SWTOR is a shambles in its entirety. Then replace the word defending in with guarding and what do you get? Roughly the exact.same.thing. You said they came half way through the war zone, that gave you the other half to do anything but sit there and "guard". You say SWTOR's PVP is in shambles, well that's your opinion and I respect that but no one is forcing you to PVP. You're pretty much saying that people who "guard" deserve nothing, when in reality they deserve what they're getting. The people guarding are generally the last line of defense for that node, it doesn't matter if you go through the war zone without killing anyone, you're doing a job and you deserve compensation. For all you of known, you probably scared off stealthies thinking they could get an easy cap! It all really boils down to that if you don't like how being rewarded for doing nothing then continue to do something and earn that reward, don't worry about how the game plays out for everyone else, worry about yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 You did more than "sod all". You resisted the urge to kill and sate your boredom, to behave in a manner that put your team in the best position to win the WZ. You played smart, at the expense of fun, and deserve to be rewarded. WZs are objecive based, and you played the objective. Well done, enjoy the comms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIackDynamite Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 When a game is getting out of hand and no1 is attacking the turret you are defending and you know the other team is happy keeping what they have you need to have.... 0 DEFENSE. If you are going to lose whats the point in guarding a node? all your OP said is you afk'd half the match. You have to play risky but most of the time being risky pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 When a game is getting out of hand and no1 is attacking the turret you are defending and you know the other team is happy keeping what they have you need to have.... 0 DEFENSE. If you are going to lose whats the point in guarding a node? all your OP said is you afk'd half the match. You have to play risky but most of the time being risky pays off. True, but you should at least try to guard it until you start nearing that "need 3 to win" point. And I would agree that obviously once you've passed that point, get your booty in the fight. Conversely, "Playing risky" is all too often an excuse people use to avoid doing something boring like guarding a turret and being ready to call incs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TulliusHostilliu Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 If you don't like it maybe we can just all go back to how it was before they increased rewards...atleast that time you would only get like 16 comms, along with the rest of your team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lugh Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Show me a 1v1 that lasts 30 seconds that isn't two tanks, two healers, or a tank vs. a healer and I'll promise to fix the TTK shorter. That's just it genius. It's not a 1 v 1. It's a 1 damaging another and evading damage to keep them from capping. And you wonder why you lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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