1.2 PvP Patch is a Disaster - How to fix it

[Stovokor]

I think that we can all agree that the 1.2 PvP changes have caused a mass exodous of PvP players from SWTOR.

 

What went wrong with the 1.2 PvP patch:

 

• Healing was overnerfed - expertise healing nerf and nerfs to healing classes/specs was just too much. Healers can no longer keep themselves alive in pvp, much less anyone else.
  

 

Listen to the PvP community.

 

Mass exodus was mainly due to failure to implement ranked warzone and poor server populations. Players left from all archtypes, by your logic DPS should be loving expertise changes yet many top DPS players also left. Its less to do with the PvP stat ( expertise ) compared with failure to deliver ranked.

 

Basing your arguments of recruits gear is pointless cause there is a gear mismatch. Once you get into BM / Warhero it is fine versus DPS players in similar gear. It trivial to acquire BM gear these days compared to a few months back.

 

Playing as Commando Medic ( supposed worst healer post 1.2 ) I feel healing is fine. Perhaps some minor tweaking but no where are dire as you make it out to be. Currently there are still healers that have significant impact on warzones. If its evenly matched teams, I have a very decent chance to stay alive for long periods and keep many other's alive. Ultimately I do whatever is needed to win the skirmishes and indirectly the objectives. Unfortunately it seems many healers are fixated on raw stats which lead them to make poor decisions in warzones.

[Vales]

Game is stupid easy, gear up, team up and gib everyone.

 

The problem is its not worth the effort, its way too easy, and its not fun or challenging in the slightest. Lowest skill capped pvp ever, with not enough content to justify call this an mmo.

 

Most of the servers now are half dead, yes we know fatman has people and you don't have to wait for 2 hours to get a pop. If Bioware expects to be around they need to merge servers, so people can atleast play the little content they have.

 

Tell me, which MMO is harder and which MMO had more content than SWTOr 6 months after release. I am waiting.

[tynt]

Most people like the changes and are telling you it is a L2P issue. Also, you need better gear which BM is not that hard to get ...

 

In addition to this, just like dps and tanks need healers, well healers need tanks. WIth guard and taunt you are taking 80% less damage.... again 80% less damage.... one more time so hopefully you understand ... 80% less damage....

 

My honest opinion is that you are not playing very well, used to pve, and in some recruit gear with mostly quest gear because you do not want to buy the full recruit set.

[Vales]

Most people like the changes and are telling you it is a L2P issue. Also, you need better gear which BM is not that hard to get ...

 

In addition to this, just like dps and tanks need healers, well healers need tanks. WIth guard and taunt you are taking 80% less damage.... again 80% less damage.... one more time so hopefully you understand ... 80% less damage....

 

My honest opinion is that you are not playing very well, used to pve, and in some recruit gear with mostly quest gear because you do not want to buy the full recruit set.

 

This is something which annoys me the most. It was the first thing after my break to get the full Recruit gear because it gives you a decent starting point and costs only about 250k which is pretty cheap for a complete set of gear. I feel no sympathy for people who are even too cheap to get the easy to buy recruit gear and then complain they get stomped in PvP.

 

I also do not ask top raiding guilds to let me participate while having 0 PvE gear I'd first go some Flashpoints to start getting a decent set together before doing OPs.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Vales

[Oscibi]

Healers are fine?

 

> That must be why they stopped queueing, including me.

 

Pre 1.2 pvp was dominated by pve gear

 

> My healing is vastly superior in pve gear now compared to recruit gear compared to what it was pre-1.2. 1.2 has made pve gear more not less useful in pvp, at least for healers. Recruit healing gear is absolutely useless. In full columi/rakata I can crank out a lot of healing in a short amount of time. In full pve gear I have 18000 hp. In full recruit gear I have 13000 hp.

 

This is why you fail. pvp isnt just about how much Healing you can crank out!

Expertise reduces incoming damage. see if you can figure out the rest.

[Odahviin]

<3 1.2, no more facetanking healers with 3 - 4 dps playing tickle me elmo. Edited May 13, 2012 by Odahviin

[Dooger]

Tell me, which MMO is harder and which MMO had more content than SWTOr 6 months after release. I am waiting.

 

Warhammer by miles, and it was run into ground by same EA/Bioware/mythic team.

Heck even DaoC had more to do as it had RvR that was fun.

 

its 2012 even the most retarded fanboi should know by now you don't get to go back to compare to games that got launched 8+ years ago.

 

"Hey, guys swtor is better than pong, and has more content!"

[blackadda]

Actually i was testing with an actually GOOD Sorc healer a few days back... we decided to test with him cranking out heals and self shielding and me doing DPS/stuns to see how long ittd take to kill him

 

It took 93k damage dealt to finally drop him (i have parses to prove it)... nuff said , thats a lot more than 2-3 globals and he didnt even kite or LOS

Edited May 13, 2012 by blackadda

[Vales]

Warhammer by miles, and it was run into ground by same EA/Bioware/mythic team.

Heck even DaoC had more to do as it had RvR that was fun.

 

its 2012 even the most retarded fanboi should know by now you don't get to go back to compare to games that got launched 8+ years ago.

 

"Hey, guys swtor is better than pong, and has more content!"

 

Never played Warhammer and I found DaoC boring as hell.

 

Even in 2012 you still need time to get content desigend, polished and fixed in and SWTOR has more content now than many MMOs had after a year.

[Dooger]

Never played Warhammer and I found DaoC boring as hell.

 

Even in 2012 you still need time to get content desigend, polished and fixed in and SWTOR has more content now than many MMOs had after a year.

 

No, no it does not roflmao. Poor quality, lack of polish, lack of content, lack of understanding in design are all the core issues in this mess. The devs are jsut trying to copy wow, but they are doing it poorly and really did not add anything new to a tired wow clone market. Top it off with bad service and not merging the servers into playable numbers...

 

No other major mmo has had to hand out a free month of play because they had nothing for players to do..

 

It matters not what you think, the colapse has started

[GeckoOBac]

No, no it does not roflmao. Poor quality, lack of polish, lack of content, lack of understanding in design are all the core issues in this mess. The devs are jsut trying to copy wow, but they are doing it poorly and really did not add anything new to a tired wow clone market. Top it off with bad service and not merging the servers into playable numbers...

 

No other major mmo has had to hand out a free month of play because they had nothing for players to do..

 

It matters not what you think, the colapse has started

 

The Sky is Falling!

 

Nobody appears to remember that it was like this in the wow forums as well.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Warhammer by miles, and it was run into ground by same EA/Bioware/mythic team.

Heck even DaoC had more to do as it had RvR that was fun.

 

its 2012 even the most retarded fanboi should know by now you don't get to go back to compare to games that got launched 8+ years ago.

 

"Hey, guys swtor is better than pong, and has more content!"

 

A big reason Warhammer failed is because it was based on a garbage IP that appealed only to a very, very limited group of people.

[Dooger]

The Sky is Falling!

 

Nobody appears to remember that it was like this in the wow forums as well.

 

This is not WoW, the warhammer fanbois talked much of the same.

 

And the devs delayed things that could have saved the game like merging servers to keep sandbox content like pvp alive.

 

Warhammer is down to like 1 server now, and its a much better pvp game than this.

[Samaul]

The Sky is Falling!

 

Nobody appears to remember that it was like this in the wow forums as well.

 

In pvp terms, the sky has already fallen. You just seem oblivious to it. Only 5-6 pvp servers are viable out of how many? Yup, that qualifies as the sky falling.

[GeckoOBac]

In pvp terms, the sky has already fallen. You just seem oblivious to it. Only 5-6 pvp servers are viable out of how many? Yup, that qualifies as the sky falling.

 

My server is perfectly fine, thank you, it's not even a pvp server and I get wzs all the time in both the 50 and the under 50 level brackets. So... Cut the horsecrap please. This mmo had the biggest opening influx ever, it's natural that they had to create a lot of servers because we had 2+ h queues even before the official launch, just from the preorders.

[Samaul]

My server is perfectly fine, thank you, it's not even a pvp server and I get wzs all the time in both the 50 and the under 50 level brackets. So... Cut the horsecrap please. This mmo had the biggest opening influx ever, it's natural that they had to create a lot of servers because we had 2+ h queues even before the official launch, just from the preorders.

 

No, you cut the bs. My server and my guild are filled with refugees from empty pvp servers. Its time to deal with reality.

[blackadda]

Healers are fine?

 

I die in less than 5 seconds in recruit gear as a healer. I dont get a chance to heal myself much less anyone else. I die so fast and so often that at my current pace of earning commendations, I can get one piece of BM a week.

 

If SWTOR pvp is fine, why have so many pvpers quit the game?

 

You just need to learn to play your class better. Sorc healers stay up extremely well

 

Heres a parse vs a PVP geared sorc (champ/BM mix with ~16k hp and 800 expertise)who sat still and shielded + healed while i poured DPS into him, avg 1100 dps vs his ~17% resist from gear and his resists from armor and buffs. Which is in line with the 1500 ish i see on the dummy as a pyro merc. Admit my crits were a bit low (yay RNG) given my tech is listed as 42% with ~73% surge and ranged is around 37% with same surge... but the point stands...he stayed up for a bit over 90 seconds or around 60 global cooldowns

 

My spike is typically 2400 dps over 1st 10 seconds and he EASILY stayed alive for that , he lasted a bit over 90 seconds WITH stuns etc to slow his heals but no interrupt, he didnt *need* to kite to live for a long time.... he only died when his force eventually ran out.

 

TYPE              DAMAGE   ENCDPS    AVERAGE  MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  SWINGS  CRIT%  
Damage Done       93,128   1,103.20  392.95   0       3,369   237   237     30%    
Healing Done      0        0.00      0.00     0       0       0     0       0%     
Threat Done       93,165   1,103.64  371.18   0       3,369   251   251     28%    
All Outgoing      186,293  2,206.84  381.75   0       3,369   488   488     29%    
Damage Recieved   0        0.00      0.00     0       0       0     0       0%     
Healing Recieved  0        0.00      0.00     0       0       0     0       0%     
Threat Recieved   0        0.00      0.00     0       0       0     0       0%     
All Incoming      0        0.00      0.00     0       0       0     0       0%     

Edited May 13, 2012 by blackadda

[looneybinjim]

i heal fine in pvp as a bm geared smuggler. sure if i get focused by two or more geared players and have no CC's up i possibly wont last long. but generally speaking i run rings round most enemy players. healing is fine (at least as op/smuggler) and is well balanced as it is imo.

[WaywardOne]

One or two people whining that they die in recruit gear doesn't mean much to me. It is much easier than it has ever been to get full BM. Recruit gear is much better than what was available to fresh 50s pre 1.2. If you bothered to save points before hitting 50 you can (I think) buy a WH piece or two and a few BM pieces as well as recruit gear to fill in the gaps; all of that was obvious to me when I read 1.2's first patch notes. If you can't be bothered to plan ahead a little or do a little research I don't think you have much business posting while expecting me to not laugh.

 

Dieing in 10 seconds in 1v1 happens (1.5k+ dps) vs very geared, very good players if you stand still like a target dummy and don't fight back, use ccs or heal (and you don't have at least a full set of recruit gear).

Edited May 13, 2012 by WaywardOne

[blackadda]

Dieing in 10 seconds in 1v1 happens (1.5k+ dps) vs very geared, very good players if you stand still like a target dummy and don't fight back, use ccs or heal (and you don't have at least a full set of recruit gear).

 

That exactly...if the guy i was fighting in the parse above hadnt healed and bubbled he would have comfortably been popped inside the 1st 10 second burst ... which is what i see a lot of players do. If he'd kited and interrupted/stunned/slept...which he is a master of.. he simply wouldnt have died to my merc...despite the spike damage.

My marauder is a different story simply because of the heal debuff and interrupt + snares, its *made* to hunt and kill healers. even then because of his skill hes no easy target.

 

I guarantee there also not a DPS or tank anywhere in the game that can take 93k damage from self buffs/self powers and not die... without heals most dps will die inside the first 15 seconds, with ease...but only bad healers will do the same, gear or not.

[syntxerr]

All but 5 or 6 of the pvp servers in SWTOR are light population. Most pvp servers in SWTOR are dead or dying. I mean 5-10 people in Carrick Station, empty leveling zones and therefore empty servers. My own server has lost over 60% of its population since patch 1.2. The pvp player base has overwhelmingly rejected patch 1.2. Players that are new to the game stop queing for Warzones when they hit level 50 because the gear gap is just too large.

 

What went wrong with the 1.2 PvP patch:

 

• Damage was overbuffed - expertise damage buff and damage buffs to some dps classes/specs was just too much. Players in full Recruit gear are dying in under 5 seconds.
  
• Healing was overnerfed - expertise healing nerf and nerfs to healing classes/specs was just too much. Healers can no longer keep themselves alive in pvp, much less anyone else.
  
• The new PvP gear system has huge holes in it - the gap between recruit and battlemaster is too large. The gap between battlemaster and war hero is too small.
  

 

How to fix SWTOR pvp:

 

• Do a complete rollback to the pre-1.2 pvp system.
  
• Roll back the expertise change.
  
• Bring back the Centurion/Champion/Battlemaster pvp gear progression.
  
• Put whoever is responsible for the SWTOR 1.2 PvP changes on help desk where they can never ever come up with a set of pvp changes like 1.2 again.
  

 

How to get it right next time:

 

Listen to the PvP community.

 

Amen to that.

 

And nope, healers are not fine at all.

[Dooger]

My server is perfectly fine, thank you, it's not even a pvp server and I get wzs all the time in both the 50 and the under 50 level brackets. So... Cut the horsecrap please. This mmo had the biggest opening influx ever, it's natural that they had to create a lot of servers because we had 2+ h queues even before the official launch, just from the preorders.

 

No more excuses for Bioware, its a business. Merge servers or die, nobody cares your server is OK, while a bulk of the players are fed up on dead servers.

 

The "my server is fine" and "WoW did not have a lot of pvp content at launch" as clear signs everything is OK by fan bois is a joke at this point.

[adrockcafe]

The pvp player base has overwhelmingly rejected patch 1.2

 

This is fact.

 

Server pops didn't take their dive based on PvE.

[LiveandDieinLA]

No more excuses for Bioware, its a business. Merge servers or die, nobody cares your server is OK, while a bulk of the players are fed up on dead servers.

 

The "my server is fine" and "WoW did not have a lot of pvp content at launch" as clear signs everything is OK by fan bois is a joke at this point.

 

I have to agree with you Tang. WitF kind of sucks now. Im still entertaining myself, but I find that I am playing less and watching G1 Transformers on Netflix more.

[Tiresias]

Healing was overnerfed... that's a good one.

 

In a game where it takes 20 seconds to kill someone, but a healer can patch them up from nearly-dead to full health in 6 seconds... you would buff healing more? The way it is right now it is nearly impossible to kill someone who is receiving healing unless you stop the healer somehow -- trying to outDPS their heals takes 3 or more players.