1.2 PvP Patch is a Disaster - How to fix it

[Samaul]

All but 5 or 6 of the pvp servers in SWTOR are light population. Most pvp servers in SWTOR are dead or dying. I mean 5-10 people in Carrick Station, empty leveling zones and therefore empty servers. My own server has lost over 60% of its population since patch 1.2. The pvp player base has overwhelmingly rejected patch 1.2. Players that are new to the game stop queing for Warzones when they hit level 50 because the gear gap is just too large.

 

What went wrong with the 1.2 PvP patch:

 

• Damage was overbuffed - expertise damage buff and damage buffs to some dps classes/specs was just too much. Players in full Recruit gear are dying in under 5 seconds.
  
• Healing was overnerfed - expertise healing nerf and nerfs to healing classes/specs was just too much. Healers can no longer keep themselves alive in pvp, much less anyone else.
  
• The new PvP gear system has huge holes in it - the gap between recruit and battlemaster is too large. The gap between battlemaster and war hero is too small.
  

 

How to fix SWTOR pvp:

 

• Do a complete rollback to the pre-1.2 pvp system.
  
• Roll back the expertise change.
  
• Bring back the Centurion/Champion/Battlemaster pvp gear progression.
  
• Put whoever is responsible for the SWTOR 1.2 PvP changes on help desk where they can never ever come up with a set of pvp changes like 1.2 again.
  

 

How to get it right next time:

 

Listen to the PvP community.

 

Edit:

 

The key issue for BioWares SWTOR business model at this time is retention of new players. SWTOR continues to attract a lot of new players. When fresh 50s buy a full set of recruit gear and queue up for warzones and repeatedly die in 2-3 GCDs, most of them stop queueing. Many new players just quit the game after such a "miserable" gaming experience.

 

The issues I listed above affect fresh 50s the most. If BioWare wants pvp server populations to recover, they must provide a smoother transition to end game pvp for new players.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Samaul
BioWare please listen

[Bazzoong]

I am part of the "pvp community" they are supposed to "listen to "as well, I almost completely disagree with what you wrote.

 

What we need is more expertise on pvp gear, especially on recruit gear (infact bm and recruit gear should have the same expertise budget, recruit has lesser stat they do not need to be punished twice).

 

Healers are fine.

 

The gap between optimized wh and optimized bm gear is huge, bm gear as it comes of the shelf is bad and lacks certain mods. Gear gaps need to be reduced between pvp sets.

 

 

Pre 1.2 pvp was dominated by pve gear that was not acceptable, pre 1.2 was way less balanced than 1.2.

 

Listen to this...

[Samaul]

I am part of the "pvp community" they are supposed to "listen to "as well, I almost completely disagree with what you wrote.

 

What we need is more expertise on pvp gear, especially on recruit gear (infact bm and recruit gear should have the same expertise budget, recruit has lesser stat they do not need to be punished twice).

 

Healers are fine.

 

The gap between optimized wh and optimized bm gear is huge, bm gear as it comes of the shelf is bad and lacks certain mods. Gear gaps need to be reduced between pvp sets.

 

 

Pre 1.2 pvp was dominated by pve gear that was not acceptable, pre 1.2 was way less balanced than 1.2.

 

Listen to this...

 

Healers are fine?

 

> That must be why they stopped queueing, including me.

 

Pre 1.2 pvp was dominated by pve gear

 

> My healing is vastly superior in pve gear now compared to recruit gear compared to what it was pre-1.2. 1.2 has made pve gear more not less useful in pvp, at least for healers. Recruit healing gear is absolutely useless. In full columi/rakata I can crank out a lot of healing in a short amount of time. In full pve gear I have 18000 hp. In full recruit gear I have 13000 hp.

[GeckoOBac]

> My healing is vastly superior in pve gear now compared to recruit gear compared to what it was pre-1.2. 1.2 has made pve gear more not less useful in pvp, at least for healers. Recruit healing gear is absolutely useless. In full columi/rakata I can crank out a lot of healing in a short amount of time. In full pve gear I have 18000 hp. In full recruit gear I have 13000 hp.

 

A dead healer is a useless healer. Recruit gear means you get at least 15% less damage, and you heal for about 12% more (IIRC).

 

Sure, if you are in full rakata gear the stat gap is big, but I doubt it's going to be enough to replace expertise. If you really want to pvp, get battlemaster gear. It's WAY better than rakata for pvp, and fast to acquire too.

Edited May 13, 2012 by GeckoOBac

[Isislol]

Healers are fine, I see plenty of healers q'ing all the time and if theres more than 2 on a team nothing dies. It's just bad healers used to standing and spamming 2 abilities that complain about nerfs.

 

Same with gear, I can't believe you actually want centurion/champion back when it takes few days to get full BM now. The recruit gear is good enough to survive and if you still dying in seconds it's you not the gear. Learn to play your class correctly.

[Samaul]

A dead healer is a useless healer. Recruit gear means you get at least 15% less damage, and you heal for about 12% more (IIRC).

 

Sure, if you are in full rakata gear the stat gap is big, but I doubt it's going to be enough to replace expertise. If you really want to pvp, get battlemaster gear. It's WAY better than rakata for pvp, and fast to acquire too.

 

I die in less than 5 seconds in recruit gear as a healer. How does that make recruit gear better?

[Samaul]

Healers are fine, I see plenty of healers q'ing all the time and if theres more than 2 on a team nothing dies. It's just bad healers used to standing and spamming 2 abilities that complain about nerfs.

 

Same with gear, I can't believe you actually want centurion/champion back when it takes few days to get full BM now. The recruit gear is good enough to survive and if you still dying in seconds it's you not the gear. Learn to play your class correctly.

 

Healers are fine?

 

I die in less than 5 seconds in recruit gear as a healer. I dont get a chance to heal myself much less anyone else. I die so fast and so often that at my current pace of earning commendations, I can get one piece of BM a week.

 

If SWTOR pvp is fine, why have so many pvpers quit the game?

[Lithy]

Expertese is in a good place, however I agree with you about the recruit gear. Its garbage. The implants/earing and generator are only things worth picking up.

 

It's not my main but I play a sorc in PvP a fair amount as well. I've DPSed on it and I've healed and I've done both at once when situations call for it. And yes, in different specs before someone mentions that. Does expertese make a difference. Yes it does. Is it broken? Definitely not. The only time I die in 5 seconds on my Sorc, who has less than 900 expertese atm is when I'm focused fired. Which is how it should be. Do you stand there and take it? Because if you do...well theirs your answer. Gotta time CC proper. Have to know how to kite. Even unspeced i can still crit heal for 3.5-4k and imo my Sorc has pretty bad gear progression atm.

 

Expertese differences are more noticeable when DPSing than healing. A healer should prioritize primary stat over recruit gear imo to be most effective while gearing up in PvP gear.

[Samaul]

Expertese is in a good place, however I agree with you about the recruit gear.

 

A healer should prioritize primary stat over recruit gear imo to be most effective while gearing up in PvP gear.

 

Expertise is in a good place? It buffs damage twice as much as healing. That is in addition to the nerfs to healers. I am personally boycotting healing in pvp until this issue is adressed. All the other healers in my guild (a very large guild) are doing the same.

 

So what you are saying is that I should heal in pvp in pve gear because that is the only way I can maximize my primary stat, willpower.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Samaul

[GeckoOBac]

I die in less than 5 seconds in recruit gear as a healer. How does that make recruit gear better?

 

I die in less than 5 seconds in war hero gear as a dps. Your point?

 

In pvp you WILL die. You are now squishier than before, but it's manageable. Recruit gear helps to make you heal more and survive bursts, but it's only a stepping stone to battlemaster gear. Just one or two pieces (which are VERY fast to obtain) and you're already in a much better position than before.

[Samaul]

I die in less than 5 seconds in war hero gear as a dps. Your point?

 

In pvp you WILL die. You are now squishier than before, but it's manageable. Recruit gear helps to make you heal more and survive bursts, but it's only a stepping stone to battlemaster gear. Just one or two pieces (which are VERY fast to obtain) and you're already in a much better position than before.

 

Dying in 2-3 GCDs is not managable, its unplayable.

[Bazzoong]

Healers are fine?

 

I die in less than 5 seconds in recruit gear as a healer. I dont get a chance to heal myself much less anyone else. I die so fast and so often that at my current pace of earning commendations, I can get one piece of BM a week.

 

If SWTOR pvp is fine, why have so many pvpers quit the game?

 

Basically, you and the team you play with are bad that`s the reason (accepting that is the ONLY way to progress), the healers I usually play with do fine, I do fine when healing (which I usually do not because I know more good healers than good damage dealers).

 

PvE gear is suicide in PvP now, the fact that you argue against that illustrates only one thing: you do not even have a basic understanding about the stats. So take this piece of advice and get pvp gear get expertise JUST DO IT don`t argue.

 

The sorc healers I tend to play with lately put out way more raw healing in pvp gear than pre 1.2 in pvp gear, they do not die because they get peeled, they get peeled because people like me think they are worth those peels, if you do not get peeled either your team is dismal or thinks you are not worth those peels, personally I would NEVER even try to help someone who enters a wz in pve gear as a healer, it`s a waste of time and effort.

 

Sorry, but as the game is now you need pvp gear to do pvp (especially as a healer, hard fact to accept?), as someone said in a previous post a dead healer is worth nothing.

[GeckoOBac]

Dying in 2-3 GCDs is not managable, its unplayable.

 

Look, focused everybody dies. That's the gist of it. If you die in less than 5 seconds 1 on 1 then you have OTHER problems.

[Samaul]

Basically, you and the team you play with are bad that`s the reason (accepting that is the ONLY way to progress), the healers I usually play with do fine, I do fine when healing (which I usually do not because I know more good healers than good damage dealers).

 

This post sounds like a joke but this guy is serious. You actually believe what you are selling?

 

Tell me, what does skill have to do with dying in 2-3 GCDs?

[Samaul]

Look, focused everybody dies. That's the gist of it. If you die in less than 5 seconds 1 on 1 then you have OTHER problems.

 

I die in less than 10 seconds 1v1 vs geared players. I have no chance to use abilities or to escape. DPS is just too much in 1.2.

[Lithy]

Expertise is in a good place? It buffs damage twice as much as healing. That is in addition to the nerfs to healers. I am personally boycotting healing in pvp until this issue is adressed. All the other healers in my guild (a very large guild) are doing the same.

 

So what you are saying is that I should heal in pvp in pve gear because that is the only way I can maximize my primary stat, willpower.

 

No, what I said is over recruit gear it's more effective. Once you can get battlemaster and warhero that's obvious. Yes, expertese buffs damage. But it also lower incoming damage as well. Yes you get more of a boost to dmg than -incoming dmg.

 

I can get 5k crit heals regularly when speced for healing, 3.5k-4k when not specced. I knew a bunch of people that did just what you're guild is doing. Stopped PvP healing. Then guess what. They adapted to the changes, they learned the changes to the trees and they do their job just fine. Their survivability is fine in 1v1, in 1v2 it's tedious but if they can hold out they can live. If they get jumped by over 3 yeah they will die without help as it should be.

 

Use line of sight. Kite. Know when to use your CCs. Take a look at your stats. Maybe you need to change your build to more power oriented. Maybe you are way past Diminishing returns on some stats and not making full use.

 

I'm trying to be helpful because if you're dying so fast your under geared or trying to heal through 8 guys on you. And honestly, if you expect to be able to live with 3-4 people constantly attacking you... thats never gonna happen.

[Samaul]

No, what I said is over recruit gear it's more effective. Once you can get battlemaster and warhero that's obvious. Yes, expertese buffs damage. But it also lower incoming damage as well. Yes you get more of a boost to dmg than -incoming dmg.

 

I can get 5k crit heals regularly when speced for healing, 3.5k-4k when not specced. I knew a bunch of people that did just what you're guild is doing. Stopped PvP healing. Then guess what. They adapted to the changes, they learned the changes to the trees and they do their job just fine. Their survivability is fine in 1v1, in 1v2 it's tedious but if they can hold out they can live. If they get jumped by over 3 yeah they will die without help as it should be.

 

Use line of sight. Kite. Know when to use your CCs. Take a look at your stats. Maybe you need to change your build to more power oriented. Maybe you are way past Diminishing returns on some stats and not making full use.

 

I'm trying to be helpful because if you're dying so fast your under geared or trying to heal through 8 guys on you. And honestly, if you expect to be able to live with 3-4 people constantly attacking you... thats never gonna happen.

 

The 1.2 changes to pvp healing cannot be "helped". There is no issue with my skill as a healer. I am not asking for nor do I want your advice. I will not be healing in pvp until these issues are addressed, period, end of story.

[GeckoOBac]

No, what I said is over recruit gear it's more effective. Once you can get battlemaster and warhero that's obvious. Yes, expertese buffs damage. But it also lower incoming damage as well. Yes you get more of a boost to dmg than -incoming dmg.

 

I can get 5k crit heals regularly when speced for healing, 3.5k-4k when not specced. I knew a bunch of people that did just what you're guild is doing. Stopped PvP healing. Then guess what. They adapted to the changes, they learned the changes to the trees and they do their job just fine. Their survivability is fine in 1v1, in 1v2 it's tedious but if they can hold out they can live. If they get jumped by over 3 yeah they will die without help as it should be.

 

Use line of sight. Kite. Know when to use your CCs. Take a look at your stats. Maybe you need to change your build to more power oriented. Maybe you are way past Diminishing returns on some stats and not making full use.

 

I'm trying to be helpful because if you're dying so fast your under geared or trying to heal through 8 guys on you. And honestly, if you expect to be able to live with 3-4 people constantly attacking you... thats never gonna happen.

 

Can only QFT.

 

If you can't bear to die continuosly in pvp then probably pvp is not for you, not this kind of pvp.

[Bazzoong]

This post sounds like a joke but this guy is serious. You actually believe what you are selling?

 

Tell me, what does skill have to do with dying in 2-3 GCDs?

 

It takes 3 players to do that, if 3 players focus you YOU ARE SUPPOSED to die in 3 gcds, only coordinated team effort is supposed to save you there, if less than 3 players kill you in 3 gcds the problem is you and your (pve) gear.

 

I will stop posting here, it is pointless anyway...

[Lithy]

The 1.2 changes to pvp healing cannot be "helped". There is no issue with my skill as a healer. I am not asking for nor do I want your advice. I will not be healing in pvp until these issues are addressed, period, end of story.

 

Those are contradictory statements. But its your choice not to heal.

[Hediori]

I die in less than 10 seconds 1v1 vs geared players. I have no chance to use abilities or to escape. DPS is just too much in 1.2.

 

You are bad. The only plausible scenario I can see this happening in is if you're caught out in the open against a Pyrotech with cooldowns up, where you have no means of LoSing.

 

I'm also going to play the "This isn't a 1v1 game" card. Do you have guard on you? Do your team mates know that you're a healer, and focus on peeling players off you? Do you actually LoS, kite and CC?

[Bazzoong]

The 1.2 changes to pvp healing cannot be "helped". There is no issue with my skill as a healer. I am not asking for nor do I want your advice. I will not be healing in pvp until these issues are addressed, period, end of story.

 

Haha, on the bold part.

[tynt]

I am part of the "pvp community" they are supposed to "listen to "as well, I almost completely disagree with what you wrote.

 

What we need is more expertise on pvp gear, especially on recruit gear (infact bm and recruit gear should have the same expertise budget, recruit has lesser stat they do not need to be punished twice).

 

Healers are fine.

 

The gap between optimized wh and optimized bm gear is huge, bm gear as it comes of the shelf is bad and lacks certain mods. Gear gaps need to be reduced between pvp sets.

 

 

Pre 1.2 pvp was dominated by pve gear that was not acceptable, pre 1.2 was way less balanced than 1.2.

 

Listen to this...

 

I agree with this, i do not agree with the original poster... do not revert the expertise change or damage / heal.

 

We are sorry the OP wants to be in godmode while solo, maybe one day he'll learn how hard he is to down with a tank guarding him and taunting (80% damage mitigation).... until that day comes just ignore him.

[LiveandDieinLA]

I disagree with everything the OP says.

 

OP just wants god mode healing again.

[Samaul]

You are bad. The only plausible scenario I can see this happening in is if you're caught out in the open against a Pyrotech with cooldowns up, where you have no means of LoSing.

 

I'm also going to play the "This isn't a 1v1 game" card. Do you have guard on you? Do your team mates know that you're a healer, and focus on peeling players off you? Do you actually LoS, kite and CC?

 

LoS doesnt work. Kiting doesnt work. I am being crit for more than half my health by marauders, sentinels, assassins and shadows 1v1, its not like they have to be on me for long to kill me. The damage cannot be healed through. I have 927 expertise.

 

I die so fast that tanks dont even bother putting gaurd on me.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Samaul