Elmiond Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I've had this discussion so many times Ninja and I'm gonna keep asking those who question the fact that the game is not supposed to be performing this bad; Why is every other game working as intended, giving the exact performance you expect from your computer, except SWTOR which gives you so much less performance than expected. Please answer this question with a good answer and maybe you'll surely understand. Oh yeah, I'm not the only one with the problem, check "Horrid FPS" thread. It's dead though, people unsubbed/gave up because Bioware denied the facts and ignored all the questions instead of communicating. Optimizing for every single hardware combination out there is insanely difficult, especially the new pieces that few know the quirks of yet. Firmware and drivers for the newest harware also still hasn't been optimized. Hero engine, at the time of purchase, was little more than a content creation kit in late alpha/early beta and was mostly unoptimized. BW has historically used engines that others had optimized before purchase and therefore don't really have all that much experience in doing that themselves. My rig runs swtor fine even on fleet or in pvp managing 45-70 fps without sudden dips in performance. The only thing I've noticed to tank my system is excessive smoke, and that has gotten better. So why does my 3-4 year old system handle it about as well as your really new highend one? Growing pains. TLDR: Computers, hardware and software are incredibly complex systems and so many different parts of them can be the culprit, none of them may be untill put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hattertea Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 There is far more to what goes into a game than the engine. The amount of textures, lights, network code and the various additional technical designs that overlay the core of the game (which is the hero engine) create overhead that can lead to problems and performance issues. MMOs are massive beasts of web of code, assets, and libraries. Don't blame the engine entirely, that is what the unenlightened would do.. Research, understand, decipher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valperion Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 There is far more to what goes into a game than the engine. The amount of textures, lights, network code and the various additional technical designs that overlay the core of the game (which is the hero engine) create overhead that can lead to problems and performance issues. MMOs are massive beasts of web of code, assets, and libraries. Don't blame the engine entirely, that is what the unenlightened would do.. Research, understand, decipher. New mmo titles are using the "Unreal 3 engine & Cryengine 3" * Please enlighten me how advanced the "Hero engine" is, since I've experienced this amazing engine in swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hattertea Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 New mmo titles are using the "Unreal 3 engine & Cryengine 3" * Please enlighten me how advanced the "Hero engine" is, since I've experienced this amazing engine in swtor. Name these MMOs? Don't just leave us all in suspense on what titles are using these without supporting evidence. As for Hero Engine advantages. (taken from the Hero Engine website) Live Collaborative Development — From one or many geographic locations – everyone works online, live on the server so you can share your work instantly. No Nightly Builds — Create your game in real-time and get instant feedback on your work. No Assumptions or Restrictions — HeroEngine lets you build your game in your own style and we provide the core technology so you don’t need to reinvent it. Reference Worlds — Access to reference worlds of typical online games (social, FPS ect), complete with example code. Integrated World-Class Middleware — SpeedTree®, Umbra dPVS, FaceGen, FMOD® and more world-class tools and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Is this one of them constructive criticism threads I hear so much about? Perhaps you should visit the forums a bit more OP if you haven't seen all the hero engine is **** threads that have already been posted. Here is a link to many of them http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=2213856 here are some of those positive thread titles. Hero Engine: why? So, Lets Say The Hero Engine IS Broken... Hero Engine: Has It Sealed The Game's Fate Already? How hard would it be to leave the Hero engine? Hero Engine Particle System...FPS KILLER TOR Hero Engine development log found in dumpster HERO engine. ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) & Why it's slower than my grandma. Hero engine? more like zero engine ..pig snort, pig snort Wait what? Hero Engine. The Hero Engine is single threaded only (Why SWTOR has performance issues) Is the Hero engine fixable? Will Re-sub when Hero Engine is optimized Bioware using the Hero engine was their biggest mistake FFS will people stop with the praise of the hero engine already Edited May 13, 2012 by corbanite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomstarPrime Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Is this one of them constructive criticism threads I hear so much about? Perhaps you should visit the forums a bit more OP if you haven't seen all the hero engine is **** threads that have already been posted. Here is a link to many of them http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=2213856 Hopefully it will scare developers away from using the engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Hopefully it will scare developers away from using the engine? But SWTOR is already using hero engine. If you meant for other MMO's then this topic is off topic and should be posted on MMORPG.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthZaul Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Well you don't need to be a programming/software/coding/designer to know that 3 minute loading screens are outrageous. Edited May 13, 2012 by DarthZaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerDseven Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 ...they didn't spend 300 million. it has been officially released that the budget was closer to 100million. i agree though, Hero Engine is probably the most pathetic engine i've seen used in a commercial release like this. if you made a failed game you would probably hide how much you are going to lose publicly so that your image isnt damaged further even if bioware ended up spending only 100-150 million, ea spent a ton on advertising which could arguably be considered start-up costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerandar Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Apparently Elder Scrolls Online will be using the Hero Engine. The Finished version of it, and they have the people who made it helping them optimize it for there game. if theres any game that will redeem the hero engine it will be The Elder Scrolls. or it will flop and be a performance hazard like this joke, in witch case I hope developers smarten up and never touch such a crappy engine again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lulzbot Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 The Hero engine is a FANTASTIC engine. If you understood anything about programming or how engines actually worked you'd understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samvan Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 The Hero engine is a FANTASTIC engine. If you understood anything about programming or how engines actually worked you'd understand it. It's a fantastic engine if it's coded/optimized properly. Bioware screwed up and therefore TORtanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnduane Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:59 pm Well, here's the known games using or working on using Hero engine so far: Released Faxion Online (2011) - UTV Ignition Entertainment Star Wars: The Old Republic (2011) - BioWare[11] Unreleased Hero's Journey - company's game the engine was developed for Dominus - PitchBlack Games[12] The Repopulation - Above and Beyond Technologies Visions of Zosimos - Forever Interactive Seems like there aren't any other Triple A's on the list. My guess is they don't consider this to be the engine to power anything other than Indie games. Unreal's engine is the best on the market. Blizzard actually writes their own, but hey they actually have real devs over there. Ones that just introduced 64 bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damican Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I've had this discussion so many times Ninja and I'm gonna keep asking those who question the fact that the game is not supposed to be performing this bad; Why is every other game working as intended, giving the exact performance you expect from your computer, except SWTOR which gives you so much less performance than expected. Please answer this question with a good answer and maybe you'll surely understand. Oh yeah, I'm not the only one with the problem, check "Horrid FPS" thread. It's dead though, people unsubbed/gave up because Bioware denied the facts and ignored all the questions instead of communicating. Heres the thing. It isnt. This game is working EXACTLY as I expected. Must be you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valperion Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Name these MMOs? Don't just leave us all in suspense on what titles are using these without supporting evidence. As for Hero Engine advantages. (taken from the Hero Engine website) Sure thing bro. Unreal Engine 3 MMOs * Tera Online * Blade & Soul Cryengine 3 MMO * Archeage - Its a sandbox mmo, some vid demos of the game. Archeage Cryengine 3 demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv5862eaGPM Archeage physics engine : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5E7OcHr2RU&feature=relmfu Archeage gameplay : A mmorpg with a destructible physics engine... So back to the main topic, how advanced is the "hero engine"?! Edited May 13, 2012 by Valperion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samvan Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Heres the thing. It isnt. This game is working EXACTLY as I expected. Must be you. Nope, it's not me. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tloops Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Apparently Elder Scrolls Online will be using the Hero Engine. they probably wont mess it up as bad as bioware did Edited May 13, 2012 by tloops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I don't mean for this to come off as rude or condescending, but ugh I wish I had seen this a year ago . See my sig. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valperion Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) this is innacurrate..here is info on thier new engine http://www.gamespot.com/news/elder-scrolls-v-will-use-all-new-game-engine-6285304 That is an article about "Skyrim" * LOL Google next time "Elder Scrolls Online" On the "Hero Engine" main site. https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?topic=2620.0 Edited May 13, 2012 by Valperion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixxathon Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have yet to experience any of those issues alot of you have. I cannot say I have a very fast system, an I5 K2500K with 8gigs and HD6970. My FPS is perfectly good on high settings, no drops ever in WZ. The only thing I could whine about would be slow loadingtime on some planets - but I fixed that quite easily by placing my OS on a SSD and te game on a second SSD - and just to get more speed I placed the windows swapfile on the same SSD as the game. This in effect lowered my initial loadingtime well within acceptable boundaries. So, all this hate towards Hero engine... sure it is quirky but so are most engines, and this particular engine is easily fixed from a users end with just a little bit of effort. SSD expensive just to run SWTOR? Well, you COULD use them for more that that actually so it is really just a matter of quality of life bought with a little money. Given time, the engine will be optimized. Just sit back and make the best of it til then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valperion Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have yet to experience any of those issues alot of you have. I cannot say I have a very fast system, an I5 K2500K with 8gigs and HD6970. My FPS is perfectly good on high settings, no drops ever in WZ. The only thing I could whine about would be slow loadingtime on some planets - but I fixed that quite easily by placing my OS on a SSD and te game on a second SSD - and just to get more speed I placed the windows swapfile on the same SSD as the game. This in effect lowered my initial loadingtime well within acceptable boundaries. So, all this hate towards Hero engine... sure it is quirky but so are most engines, and this particular engine is easily fixed from a users end with just a little bit of effort. SSD expensive just to run SWTOR? Well, you COULD use them for more that that actually so it is really just a matter of quality of life bought with a little money. Given time, the engine will be optimized. Just sit back and make the best of it til then. Unless you "FRAPS or record your fps", in showing the community how stable your fps is. * Your words really don't mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvnStrSlm Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I've had this discussion so many times Ninja and I'm gonna keep asking those who question the fact that the game is not supposed to be performing this bad; Why is every other game working as intended, giving the exact performance you expect from your computer, except SWTOR which gives you so much less performance than expected. Please answer this question with a good answer and maybe you'll surely understand. Oh yeah, I'm not the only one with the problem, check "Horrid FPS" thread. It's dead though, people unsubbed/gave up because Bioware denied the facts and ignored all the questions instead of communicating. I can't speak for everyone but 30-50FPS is pretty good in my book. Also, My computer is specc'ed below yours and my game runs perfectly smooth. For me "horrid" FPS is less than 15 to me, maybe 20 if i had a bad day at work. The thing alot of people tend to forget is that there are so many different components working together in the computer. Different brands with different drivers can cause problems that are only fixed through new hardware. Small glitches in RAM or even the MoBo are damn near undetectable by the average user/ home builder. Apples are so expensive because the OS is built on specific hardware to avoid these types of glitches. Windows is built to work as best as it can with everything. I tend to find this to be the biggest problem with the newest tech compaired to slightly older tech that has had many revisions behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Unless you "FRAPS or record your fps", in showing the community how stable your fps is. * Your words really don't mean anything. ^^This pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xQuicksilverx Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Considering how much TOR taxes your computer, we should be getting a lot more than the hero engine provides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zocat Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Sure thing bro. Unreal Engine 3 MMOs * Tera Online * Blade & Soul Cryengine 3 MMO * Archeage I'd say Cry3 was released too late for SWTOR and wasnt available for it. U3 would be okay though. The advantage of Hero Engine is fast & efficient prototyping. Which in the end should lead to very fast content creation. Future will tell if BW can do this when they fixed the current issues. The problem is: (from http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/ ): "“It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.” He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”" BW bought an unfinished engine and decided they could do a better job of finishing & optimizing it than the original devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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