The Point of Qui-Gon Jinn

[chiefdano]

I disagree. Qui Gon dieing was integral in the Obi Wan story of the movie. All of a sudden, Obi Wan is thrust into the leader/master/father role in mere seconds. When Qui Gon died, Obi Wan became a Jedi Knight and took Anakin as his padawan.

 

 

If Obi Wan was just another Jedi they stuck Anakin with, the whole story behind Obi Wan would be bland.

[Slowpokeking]

Your post doesn't even make sense... OF COURSE Obi-Wan could play a father figure and they become enemies, in fact in episode 2 the dialogue as they enter the cantina on Coruscant is:

 

"Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?"

"Don't say that, master, you're like a father to me."

"Then why don't you listen to me?"

"I try, master."

 

And point out one problem with Obi-wan in the OT. I'd love to see that.

 

He lied to Luke? He lied in hopes of shielding Luke from the truth long enough, and if he found out, say, the moment he stepped on the Millenium Falcon, it could have lead to his corruption and conversion to the darkside. erroneous? arguably, but it was done with reason and good intention as luke understood when he spoke with Obi-Wan on Dagobah.

 

He was a crazy old wizard that disabled the death star's tractor beam and sacrificed himself so that the others may escape? He championed Luke to Yoda the same way he could have championed Anakin had they not wasted their time with Qui-derp? Those aren't character flaws, BUT

 

I suppose qui-gon's championing of Anakin to the Jedi order is an important part that would teach obi-wan something, but other than raising the age limit for exceptional force adepts, I'm not sure what flaw Qui-Gon served to repair in the jedi order... in fact, i'm pretty sure it wouldn't have mattered since they were all wiped out. still, 30 seconds of the entire movie does not justify Qui-Gon being the more prominent jedi in the episode.

 

And if an entire episode of Qui-gon drinksalotandhasbrilliantplans wasn't bad enough, he's mentioned again at the end of episode 3... WHY? Like his entire role, there was no reason for it.

 

like RLM said, you COULD have qui-gon in there and it work... you know... if he were quiet and in the backround the way Obi-Wan was the entire movie.

 

However that's not the case, you can look at the novels and descriptions, Obi Wan was more like a brother to him, they have a lot in different, but they stayed together for more than 10 years. Qui Gon Jinn was totally different, Anakin kept his respect to Qui Gon Jinn even after he became Vader.

 

Well, Obi Wan's problem in the OT was obvious.

 

Sure he didn't have to to tell Luke Vader was his father, but why did he have to lie to Luke that Vader murdered his father? That obviously, let Luke hate his father without knowing the truth.

 

And his death didn't help Luke escape, Luke was furious and wanted to avenge for him after his death. He surely could try to run away with them rather than stop fighting and let Vader kill him, at least in Luke's eyes which made Luke's hatred toward his father to grow stronger.

 

And he still didn't tell Luke the truth when he went to face Vader in EP V, what would happen if Luke really killed Vader, then the Emperor came out to tell him the truth? Can you imagine what would Luke feel? Surely he would fall to the Dark Side. There is no way Luke would spare Vader without knowing that Vader was his father.

[Wolfninjajedi]

However that's not the case, you can look at the novels and descriptions, Obi Wan was more like a brother to him, they have a lot in different, but they stayed together for more than 10 years. Qui Gon Jinn was totally different, Anakin kept his respect to Qui Gon Jinn even after he became Vader.

 

Well, Obi Wan's problem in the OT was obvious.

 

Sure he didn't have to to tell Luke Vader was his father, but why did he have to lie to Luke that Vader murdered his father? That obviously, let Luke hate his father without knowing the truth.

 

And his death didn't help Luke escape, Luke was furious and wanted to avenge for him after his death. He surely could try to run away with them rather than stop fighting and let Vader kill him, at least in Luke's eyes which made Luke's hatred toward his father to grow stronger.

 

And he still didn't tell Luke the truth when he went to face Vader in EP V, what would happen if Luke really killed Vader, then the Emperor came out to tell him the truth? Can you imagine what would Luke feel? Surely he would fall to the Dark Side. There is no way Luke would spare Vader without knowing that Vader was his father.

 

If Luke had killed Vader in EP V, why would he believe the Emperor in saying he had killed his own father? Luke didn't really believe that Vader was his father until Yoda told him in ROTJ.

 

Luke: "Master Yoda is Darth Vader my father?"

 

Yoda: "Rest, i need, yes, rest."

 

Luke: "Yoda I must know.."

 

Yoda: "Your father he is."

 

Then later on Luke says he admits that Vader is his rather.

 

Vader: "So you have accepted the truth."

 

Luke: "I've accepted the truth, that you were once Anakin Skywalker my father."

Edited May 13, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Slowpokeking]

If Luke had killed Vader in EP V, why would he believe the Emperor in saying he had killed his own father? Luke didn't really believe that Vader was his father until Yoda told him in ROTJ.

 

Luke: "Master Yoda is Darth Vader my father?"

 

Yoda: "Rest, i need, yes, rest."

 

Luke: "Yoda I must know.."

 

Yoda: "Your father he is."

 

Then later on Luke says he admits that Vader is his rather.

 

Vader: "So you've accepted the truth."

 

Luke: "I've accepted the truth, that you were once Anakin Skywalker my father."

 

They have the genetic way to prove it. SW's technology is much more advanced than real life. And even in real life we can prove it. Also more than 1 people know about Anakin Skywalker was Vader.

 

When Luke heard the word in EP V, his mind already started to shake.

 

Luke's mind whirled with those words. Everything was finally beginning to

coalesce in his brain. Or was it? He wondered if Vader were telling him the

truth - if the training of Yoda, the teaching of saintly old Ben, his own

strivings for good and his abhorrence of evil, if everything he had fought for

were no more than a lie.

 

He didn't want to believe Vader, tried convincing himself that it was Vader

who lied to him - but somehow he could feel the truth in the Dark Lord's

words. But, if Darth Vader did speak the truth, why, he wondered, had Ben

Kenobi lied to him? Why? His mind screamed louder than any wind the

Dark Lord could ever summon against him.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[Lewisgil]

Your post doesn't even make sense... OF COURSE Obi-Wan could play a father figure and they become enemies, in fact in episode 2 the dialogue as they enter the cantina on Coruscant is:

 

"Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?"

"Don't say that, master, you're like a father to me."

"Then why don't you listen to me?"

"I try, master."

 

And point out one problem with Obi-wan in the OT. I'd love to see that.

 

He lied to Luke? He lied in hopes of shielding Luke from the truth long enough, and if he found out, say, the moment he stepped on the Millenium Falcon, it could have lead to his corruption and conversion to the darkside. erroneous? arguably, but it was done with reason and good intention as luke understood when he spoke with Obi-Wan on Dagobah.

 

He was a crazy old wizard that disabled the death star's tractor beam and sacrificed himself so that the others may escape? He championed Luke to Yoda the same way he could have championed Anakin had they not wasted their time with Qui-derp? Those aren't character flaws, BUT

 

I suppose qui-gon's championing of Anakin to the Jedi order is an important part that would teach obi-wan something, but other than raising the age limit for exceptional force adepts, I'm not sure what flaw Qui-Gon served to repair in the jedi order... in fact, i'm pretty sure it wouldn't have mattered since they were all wiped out. still, 30 seconds of the entire movie does not justify Qui-Gon being the more prominent jedi in the episode.

 

And if an entire episode of Qui-gon drinksalotandhasbrilliantplans wasn't bad enough, he's mentioned again at the end of episode 3... WHY? Like his entire role, there was no reason for it.

 

like RLM said, you COULD have qui-gon in there and it work... you know... if he were quiet and in the backround the way Obi-Wan was the entire movie.

 

I agree with you points about Obi-Wan from the Original Trilogy. However, your opinions regarding Qui-Gon don't take into consideration that he was the catalyst for accepting Anakin. Both for the Jedi Order and for Obi-Wan. Had Qui-Gon not advocated for Anakin's acceptance so vehemently, he could have been found by Sidious without the benefit of Jedi Training, he would have been turned into a much more fearsome opponent, especially considering that may have afforded him the opportunity to avoid being dismembered and being trapped in his life support suit for the rest of his life. Point is, there are so many possibilities that may have been avoided by the mere addition of Qui-Gon's character. Granted, there would have been someone or something that provided the same result as Qui-Gon but, to say that he is useless is the same as saying Jar-Jar was useless in the formation of the Galactic Empire. We all now know that he was the catalyst for that but, before the Prequels, he did not exist.

[Lewisgil]

They have the genetic way to prove it. SW's technology is much more advanced than real life. And even in real life we can prove it. Also more than 1 people know about Anakin Skywalker was Vader.

 

When Luke heard the word in EP V, his mind already started to shake.

 

You also have to take into consideration Obi-Wan's words when Luke confronted him about lying about Vader's identity. What he said was true from a certain point of view. Obi-Wan and Anakin were like Brothers, or in Japanese terms, Sempai and Kohai. Obi-Wan loved Anakin as if they actually were brothers. When Anakin turned on him, the Anakin that he knew ceased to exist, in his eyes, murdered by this new Darth Vader persona.

[Slowpokeking]

You also have to take into consideration Obi-Wan's words when Luke confronted him about lying about Vader's identity. What he said was true from a certain point of view. Obi-Wan and Anakin were like Brothers, or in Japanese terms, Sempai and Kohai. Obi-Wan loved Anakin as if they actually were brothers. When Anakin turned on him, the Anakin that he knew ceased to exist, in his eyes, murdered by this new Darth Vader persona.

 

He should not think about his view, but Luke's view. Luke didn't know the truth at all, he would only consider Vader as a super evil villain and want to strike him down for good because he murdered both his father and his mentor. If he really did, then the Emperor would have to thank Obi Wan a lot.

[Lewisgil]

He should not think about his view, but Luke's view. Luke didn't know the truth at all, he would only consider Vader as a super evil villain and want to strike him down for good because he murdered both his father and his mentor. If he really did, then the Emperor would have to thank Obi Wan a lot.

 

If you recall, Luke's trial to become a Jedi was to defeat Vader. It was always known that Luke would have to be the one to do that. Obi-Wan made a judgment call, the wrong one maybe, to spare Luke the conflict of having to deal with rushing off to confront his own father. Obi-Wan figured he could curb any thoughts of vengeance in Luke and make it just something that had to be done. He figured if he knew Vader was actually his father Luke wouldn't be able to face him.

 

Nobody is saying Obi-Wan made the correct choice, he just made the choice that made the most sense to him at the time.

[Slowpokeking]

If you recall, Luke's trial to become a Jedi was to defeat Vader. It was always known that Luke would have to be the one to do that. Obi-Wan made a judgment call, the wrong one maybe, to spare Luke the conflict of having to deal with rushing off to confront his own father. Obi-Wan figured he could curb any thoughts of vengeance in Luke and make it just something that had to be done. He figured if he knew Vader was actually his father Luke wouldn't be able to face him.

 

Nobody is saying Obi-Wan made the correct choice, he just made the choice that made the most sense to him at the time.

 

More likely, to defeat the call of the Dark Side, not defeat someone.

 

Vader already made the same mistake, as Anakin he defeated and killed Dooku, then later replaced Dooku's position as the Sith Lord.

 

Obi Wan knew that, saw that. Why should he give Luke the motive to kill Vader? Even if it was too early to let Luke know Vader was his father, why lied to him about Vader killed his father?

Edited May 14, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[Lewisgil]

More likely, to defeat the call of the Dark Side, not defeat someone.

 

Vader already made the same mistake, as Anakin he defeated and killed Dooku, then later replaced Dooku's position as the Sith Lord.

 

Obi Wan knew that, saw that. Why should he give Luke the motive to kill Vader? Even if it was too early to let Luke know Vader was his father, why lied to him about Vader killed his father?

 

He was painting the picture of how Vader came into being while trying to still use as many facts as possible. He couldn't just create an entire story to explain how he knew Vader so, he just used the facts surrounding Anakin's turn to Vader to illustrate what happened to turn Vader to the Dark Side. He was one, trying to preserve Luke's opinion of his father and two, illustrate how big a threat Vader was. As I said, he thought he might be able to curb any desire Luke might have had to go after Vader strictly for vengeance better than he could mitigate any doubts Luke might have had about facing his own father.

 

In American Pop Culture, it is far easier to let go of the desire to kill for revenge than it is to harbor the desire to kill one's own father. Those that wish to kill their own father have come to this desire by living a life of constant abuse or neglect by said father. The hero of these stories is always depicted as either regretting having followed through with their revenge or letting go of those desires.

[Slowpokeking]

He was painting the picture of how Vader came into being while trying to still use as many facts as possible. He couldn't just create an entire story to explain how he knew Vader so, he just used the facts surrounding Anakin's turn to Vader to illustrate what happened to turn Vader to the Dark Side. He was one, trying to preserve Luke's opinion of his father and two, illustrate how big a threat Vader was. As I said, he thought he might be able to curb any desire Luke might have had to go after Vader strictly for vengeance better than he could mitigate any doubts Luke might have had about facing his own father.

 

In American Pop Culture, it is far easier to let go of the desire to kill for revenge than it is to harbor the desire to kill one's own father. Those that wish to kill their own father have come to this desire by living a life of constant abuse or neglect by said father. The hero of these stories is always depicted as either regretting having followed through with their revenge or letting go of those desires.

 

However it's not really the Jedi way and it's not wise. Just leave Vader there, tells Luke that he once was a Jedi knight, and use him to warn Luke not fall to the Dark Side. Vader, as a high rank member of the Empire already gave Luke reason to go after him.

 

Vader was not the biggest threat, Sidious was. Sure Luke wouldn't struggle against Vader if he didn't know the truth. But what would happen after he took down Vader? When he learned the truth from Sidious, he would surely think the Jedi were evil because they lied to him and let him kill his own father. Then it's gonna be Anakin's fall all over again. The Empire would become even stronger with a new Sith Lord.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[Aedey]

The Jedi Order then was weaker than I thought. Being killed by an apprentice just makes it hard to remember him seriously.

 

Yes. However to my knowledge Qui-gon never faced a proper Sith Lord, just a fallen apprentice or two. The Jedi in that era where not trained to deal with a Sith. & my common sense tells me that if someone has been trained by the most powerful sith in the last however many years, it does make sense for him to strike someone like Qui-gon down. Qui-gon, to me, didn't seem to be a fighting type. Arrogant yes, but not real fighter. Backing up what other people have said he seemed more of a Consular type, determining the will of the force.

[Slowpokeking]

Yes. However to my knowledge Qui-gon never faced a proper Sith Lord, just a fallen apprentice or two. The Jedi in that era where not trained to deal with a Sith. & my common sense tells me that if someone has been trained by the most powerful sith in the last however many years, it does make sense for him to strike someone like Qui-gon down. Qui-gon, to me, didn't seem to be a fighting type. Arrogant yes, but not real fighter. Backing up what other people have said he seemed more of a Consular type, determining the will of the force.

 

Maul wasn't trained to be a real Sith Lord, but his fighting skill is very incredible. Qui Gon lost because he was over 60 at that time(Liam was young on the screen sure) and that place was too small, not good for his Ataru form.

[brodymac]

That's cuz there is no Jedi apprentice, they're called Padawans.

 

Maul was a Darth, but there was only ever one DLS & that was Sidious. Maul was the apprentice. Trained well? Enough to kill a Jedi Master yea, but still inexperienced/young enough to show such reckless arrogance, which got em killed.

 

There were also 3 Sith in that time, Sidious, Tyrannus, & Maul. So the RO2 was void?

 

Tyrannus didnt become a sith until after mauls death, the three sith during at that time were plageus, sidious and maul

[GhostDrone]

I have yet to see any Jinn defenders here (makes sense), soooo I'll say it again. Worst. Jedi. Ever. Almost pointless, boring character.

 

His dueling skills as a Master were also apparently sub par. He was cut down by an apprentice. Yes the apprentice of Sidious, & a Darth, but an apprentice nonetheless.

 

His only redeeming quality for me is that he appeared to be a Grey Jedi who trolled the council.

 

He's Liam bloody Neeson Isn't that enough of a redeeming quality?

[Aurbere]

He's Liam bloody Neeson Isn't that enough of a redeeming quality?

 

^This. If these people could just see this point, then Liam Neeson wouldn't have to use his particular set of skills to find them and make life a nightmare for them.

[Slowpokeking]

Obi Wan in his mid 30s, still got his *** kicked by Maul when he lost half of his body, that's a lot of midi-chlorians. Edited May 14, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[RDeanOU]

Qui-Gon Jinn ruined the entire prequel series.

 

Think about it. The real problem with the prequels is that we never care about Anakin. We aren't upset, surprised, or shocked when he falls to the dark side. Our only reaction is to roll our eyes and scream, "Finally!!" We aren't upset when Obi Wan hacks him to pieces either. How would we have felt if Luke had fallen to the dark side at the end of Return of the Jedi and Han had ended up being forced to maim him and leave him for dead? We would have been heartbroken. Kids would have cried in the theater and we would all have been angry. No one had that reaction watching episode 3. No one cared. That's a huge problem.

 

The reason we never cared about him is because we never get to see him truly be the good guy. He is a d-bag throughout the series. We never get to see Obi Wan and him developing this bond of brotherhood. They talk about the bond in Episode 3, but we don't see it happen like we see Han and Luke become best friends in the original trilogy. This is something the Plinkett review points out very correctly. Why was it necessary for Obi Wan and him to have a conversation where Obi Wan talks about Anakin saving his butt multiple times? It's because they didn't have time to show us any of that. Now, why didn't they have time to show us any of that? It's because instead of using the first two movies to show us Anakin as hero and he and Obi Wan as brothers and then turning episode 3 into the story of a hero's great fall we spend the first episode getting to know an annoying kid and a cartoon rabbit and the second episode being bored to death by some of the most poorly written romance dialogue in the history of cinema.

 

Why was it necessary to show Qui-Gon discovering Anakin on Tatooine? Why was it necessary for us to get to know his mother? Why was it necessary to get to know a flying blue racial caricature of a covetous Jew? Why must we know Qui-Gon at all? What does it contribute to the story?

 

Here is what the first two episodes should have been instead. Episode 1 should have started with a crawl that introduced the Clone Wars. Something like, "It is a dark time for the Galactic Republic. Despite generations of peace the Clone Wars have engulfed the galaxy and threaten to undo everything the Republic stands for..." Then you spend that first episode seeing Obi Wan and his padawan Anakin fighting the clone wars. Perhaps they are trying to save the planet Naboo (which definitely doesn't have any cartoon rabbits living on it) from the Separatists and Anakin and Obi Wan befriend a lovely noblewoman played by Natalie Portman (who is just a nobelwoman and not a child that was elected to run a planet for some reason even though she's only like 10 and that makes zero sense.) They save the day and become heroes. Episode 2 takes us to a darker place as Anakin and Obi Wan continue to fight the clone wars and begin to uncover a dark conspiracy within the Republic. We see them fighting side by side and constantly saving each other and having one another's back. Episode 2 ends with the discovery that the Supreme Chancellor has engineered the Clone Wars as a power grab and Anakin and Obi Wan become fugitives. Episode 3 is Anakin and Obi Wan being forced to fight their way to an eventual confrontation with the supreme chancellor.

 

That would have given us the opportunity to like Anakin. No Qui-Gon Jinn character is necessary. He isn't important to the story and so we spend time developing the characters that are instead.

[Xatasha]

Qui-Gon Jinn ruined the entire prequel series.

 

Think about it. The real problem with the prequels is that we never care about Anakin. We aren't upset, surprised, or shocked when he falls to the dark side. Our only reaction is to roll our eyes and scream, "Finally!!" We aren't upset when Obi Wan hacks him to pieces either. How would we have felt if Luke had fallen to the dark side at the end of Return of the Jedi and Han had ended up being forced to maim him and leave him for dead? We would have been heartbroken. Kids would have cried in the theater and we would all have been angry. No one had that reaction watching episode 3. No one cared. That's a huge problem.

 

The reason we never cared about him is because we never get to see him truly be the good guy. He is a d-bag throughout the series. We never get to see Obi Wan and him developing this bond of brotherhood. They talk about the bond in Episode 3, but we don't see it happen like we see Han and Luke become best friends in the original trilogy. This is something the Plinkett review points out very correctly. Why was it necessary for Obi Wan and him to have a conversation where Obi Wan talks about Anakin saving his butt multiple times? It's because they didn't have time to show us any of that. Now, why didn't they have time to show us any of that? It's because instead of using the first two movies to show us Anakin as hero and he and Obi Wan as brothers and then turning episode 3 into the story of a hero's great fall we spend the first episode getting to know an annoying kid and a cartoon rabbit and the second episode being bored to death by some of the most poorly written romance dialogue in the history of cinema.

 

Why was it necessary to show Qui-Gon discovering Anakin on Tatooine? Why was it necessary for us to get to know his mother? Why was it necessary to get to know a flying blue racial caricature of a covetous Jew? Why must we know Qui-Gon at all? What does it contribute to the story?

 

Here is what the first two episodes should have been instead. Episode 1 should have started with a crawl that introduced the Clone Wars. Something like, "It is a dark time for the Galactic Republic. Despite generations of peace the Clone Wars have engulfed the galaxy and threaten to undo everything the Republic stands for..." Then you spend that first episode seeing Obi Wan and his padawan Anakin fighting the clone wars. Perhaps they are trying to save the planet Naboo (which definitely doesn't have any cartoon rabbits living on it) from the Separatists and Anakin and Obi Wan befriend a lovely noblewoman played by Natalie Portman (who is just a nobelwoman and not a child that was elected to run a planet for some reason even though she's only like 10 and that makes zero sense.) They save the day and become heroes. Episode 2 takes us to a darker place as Anakin and Obi Wan continue to fight the clone wars and begin to uncover a dark conspiracy within the Republic. We see them fighting side by side and constantly saving each other and having one another's back. Episode 2 ends with the discovery that the Supreme Chancellor has engineered the Clone Wars as a power grab and Anakin and Obi Wan become fugitives. Episode 3 is Anakin and Obi Wan being forced to fight their way to an eventual confrontation with the supreme chancellor.

 

That would have given us the opportunity to like Anakin. No Qui-Gon Jinn character is necessary. He isn't important to the story and so we spend time developing the characters that are instead.

 

The real problem with the prequel is that it was a prequel. You already know what is going to happen and it is really hard to the emotions out of the fan base. It was also a prequel to an epic three movies. No matter how well written it was doomed never to be as good as the 1st three.

[Captain_Zone]

He's Liam bloody Neeson Isn't that enough of a redeeming quality?

 

That's basically what I said. Liam Neeson MADE the character cooler than he was supposed to be. Reading the novelization, Qui-Gon was a doofus.

[Lewisgil]

Qui-Gon Jinn ruined the entire prequel series.

 

We have Episode I because without it, we don't see where Anakin was found, what his situation was, or what the root cause was of his fall to the Dark Side. Could it have been a Prologue? Sure. Is that what we got? No. Instead of railing on and on about what we were given thirteen years ago, maybe you should think about the novels that were written that fill in the gaps.

 

There is virtually nothing known of the three years between Episode IV and Episode V. Sure, there are some comic books but, nothing substantial. The only bit of the six months between Episode V and Episode Vi we see is what was described in the novel Shadows of the Empire.

 

Do you see people railing on and on about those missed parts? No.

 

The addition of Qui-Gon gives us the explanation of how Anakin was found and why he ended up with Obi-Wan as his Master. If we didn't get that, there would be different unanswered questions than what you perceive as such currently.

[Slowpokeking]

Qui-Gon Jinn ruined the entire prequel series.

 

Think about it. The real problem with the prequels is that we never care about Anakin. We aren't upset, surprised, or shocked when he falls to the dark side. Our only reaction is to roll our eyes and scream, "Finally!!" We aren't upset when Obi Wan hacks him to pieces either. How would we have felt if Luke had fallen to the dark side at the end of Return of the Jedi and Han had ended up being forced to maim him and leave him for dead? We would have been heartbroken. Kids would have cried in the theater and we would all have been angry. No one had that reaction watching episode 3. No one cared. That's a huge problem.

 

The reason we never cared about him is because we never get to see him truly be the good guy. He is a d-bag throughout the series. We never get to see Obi Wan and him developing this bond of brotherhood. They talk about the bond in Episode 3, but we don't see it happen like we see Han and Luke become best friends in the original trilogy. This is something the Plinkett review points out very correctly. Why was it necessary for Obi Wan and him to have a conversation where Obi Wan talks about Anakin saving his butt multiple times? It's because they didn't have time to show us any of that. Now, why didn't they have time to show us any of that? It's because instead of using the first two movies to show us Anakin as hero and he and Obi Wan as brothers and then turning episode 3 into the story of a hero's great fall we spend the first episode getting to know an annoying kid and a cartoon rabbit and the second episode being bored to death by some of the most poorly written romance dialogue in the history of cinema.

 

Why was it necessary to show Qui-Gon discovering Anakin on Tatooine? Why was it necessary for us to get to know his mother? Why was it necessary to get to know a flying blue racial caricature of a covetous Jew? Why must we know Qui-Gon at all? What does it contribute to the story?

 

Here is what the first two episodes should have been instead. Episode 1 should have started with a crawl that introduced the Clone Wars. Something like, "It is a dark time for the Galactic Republic. Despite generations of peace the Clone Wars have engulfed the galaxy and threaten to undo everything the Republic stands for..." Then you spend that first episode seeing Obi Wan and his padawan Anakin fighting the clone wars. Perhaps they are trying to save the planet Naboo (which definitely doesn't have any cartoon rabbits living on it) from the Separatists and Anakin and Obi Wan befriend a lovely noblewoman played by Natalie Portman (who is just a nobelwoman and not a child that was elected to run a planet for some reason even though she's only like 10 and that makes zero sense.) They save the day and become heroes. Episode 2 takes us to a darker place as Anakin and Obi Wan continue to fight the clone wars and begin to uncover a dark conspiracy within the Republic. We see them fighting side by side and constantly saving each other and having one another's back. Episode 2 ends with the discovery that the Supreme Chancellor has engineered the Clone Wars as a power grab and Anakin and Obi Wan become fugitives. Episode 3 is Anakin and Obi Wan being forced to fight their way to an eventual confrontation with the supreme chancellor.

 

That would have given us the opportunity to like Anakin. No Qui-Gon Jinn character is necessary. He isn't important to the story and so we spend time developing the characters that are instead.

 

So you want to see Anakin kicked Palpatine's ***, saved the Republic and became the Grand Master of the Jedi?

 

Actually Obi Wan and Anakin are different kind of people, that's why they finally parted away. In EP I you can see Anakin didn't have much connection with him. Obi Wan even said "The boy is dangerous" before young Anakin.

[Slowpokeking]

I don't get it, these people hate Qui Gon Jinn so much because they thought Obi Wan could take the role. But did they really take a closer look to the OT? You can see even in the OT, evidence could show that Obi Wan and Anakin were not once good friends like Obi Wan claimed they were.

 

Qui Gon Jinn was a father figure to Anakin, he discovered his potential, helped him to fulfill his dream when nobody except his mother took him as more than a little slave boy.

 

Obi Wan was his master, they spent more than 10 years together, fought together so many times, while they got little in common.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[Matth_Stil]

the point of RLM's review was that Qui-Gon Jinn served NO role that couldn't be served by just Obi-wan. IE Obi-wan could have been the only jedi and the movie would have had more thorough character development.

 

The Jinn role is that of 'willing tutor'. For me, the foundation of Anakin's fall was placement with a master (purely titular until Episode III, by the way) just going through the motions; unlike Qui-Gon, Kenobi didn't want him, thus didn't keep as close an eye on a certain befriending as he should've...

 

"I have failed you, Anakin. I have failed you."

Edited May 14, 2012 by Matth_Stil

[Velaran]

There is virtually nothing known of the three years between Episode IV and Episode V. Sure, there are some comic books but, nothing substantial. The only bit of the six months between Episode V and Episode Vi we see is what was described in the novel Shadows of the Empire.

 

What, seriously? I'd thought every ounce of lore between the movies would have been covered by this point.

 

 

On topic.

 

Here's something: Perhaps young Obi-Wan should have wanted Anakin to be trained as much as Qui-Gon, but only so Qui-Gon would take on a new padawan and Obi-Wan could move on to knighthood. Obi-Wan feigns interests and enthusiasm, and when Qui-Gon is killed the council saddles the responsability of training Anakin with Obi-Wan, believing that he would want to train him just like Qui-Gon.

 

This sets up a bad master-padawan relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and Anakin never really accepts the Jedi Code or Way fully, allowing for Palpatine to have an easier time luring him to the Dark Side. It also shows that the sage-like wisdom and competence shown in old Obi-Wan was something that developed over time, and not some kind of inborn trait.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Velaran