PVE Tree, Which One?

[Zaragosa]

Hello, new Sentinel here. If anyone is able to shed a little light on which is best spec for leveling PVE, in addition Post-50 PVE ?

 

Will be mostly solo questing, with not much in the way of flashpoints, but possibly an heroic2 here and there.

 

Please no PVP responses.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Veniras]

Assuming you play the spec correctly with somewhat proper rotation

 

Watchman: Takes things down using DOT's combined with minor self (and party) heal. Usable in all encounters.

 

Combat: Burst. Takes things down fast in a fluid fashion and relies on speed. No healing. Draws aggro like a champ, so be ready to use your aggro dump.

 

I like 'em both and had no problems levelling as combat with T7 as tank. Combat is a bit easier IMO.

 

I currently use watchman as I PVP and feel I need the self-heals.

 

Edit: No knowledge of Focus

Edited May 11, 2012 by Veniras

[SteveGarbage]

Watchman is currently regarded as the best spec for both PvE and PvP and is currently preferred for endgame content as well. It has the highest sustained damage of the three specs as well as offering some self-healing which helps keep you in the battle longer.

[thepilk]

Watchman is pretty much the "go to". Somuch so that when someone says "Sentinel" they are typically presuming a watchman build. It also has the fewest pvp-specific abilties such as extra snares, roots, longer ranged pacify, extra gap closers, etc. Both Combat and Focus have a handful of boxes that wouldnt be strong investments for PVE specific play. Edited May 11, 2012 by thepilk

[AidanLightwalker]

Watchman is currently regarded as the best spec for both PvE and PvP and is currently preferred for endgame content as well. It has the highest sustained damage of the three specs as well as offering some self-healing which helps keep you in the battle longer.

 

This an opinion and not fact. There are people out there burning through mobs with combat. Combat is easier shut down in pvp but is asking for pve and in pve when played right , they put up damn good numbers. Ops groups tend to like them because of the little healing they offer and wide use of interrupts. With good healers and other interupts in your group, play combat if you like. The ability to put up solid dps with on command burst makes the spec no slouch.

[Spungey]

why do people give bad information?

 

Watchman > Combat.....PvE and PvP

 

Watchman has the higher burst and pulls higher sustained dps. Combat is still lackluster in every part of the game. With that being said, if you like the combat play style then by all means, but you are gimping yourself in both aspects of the game.

[conundrumx]

This an opinion and not fact. There are people out there burning through mobs with combat. Combat is easier shut down in pvp but is asking for pve and in pve when played right , they put up damn good numbers. Ops groups tend to like them because of the little healing they offer and wide use of interrupts. With good healers and other interupts in your group, play combat if you like. The ability to put up solid dps with on command burst makes the spec no slouch.

 

Sorry, as of 1.2 it's a fact. See my DPS tests here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=436294

[Elear]

Sorry, as of 1.2 it's a fact.

 

It's also a fact that most people that post those comparisions play Watchman and don't know how to play Combat properly. And do those tests without armor debuff, that despite Precision benefits combat more.

[Zaragosa]

Watchman is pretty much the "go to". Somuch so that when someone says "Sentinel" they are typically presuming a watchman build. It also has the fewest pvp-specific abilties such as extra snares, roots, longer ranged pacify, extra gap closers, etc. Both Combat and Focus have a handful of boxes that wouldnt be strong investments for PVE specific play.

 

But is this true for LEVELING? Which is what I am looking for...

[Veniras]

But is this true for LEVELING? Which is what I am looking for...

 

For leveling combat is easy. Most monsters don't move when fighting so your rotation is pretty stable and not so situational.

 

My advice is to read up on and try each tree for a couple of days. You can always respec.

 

I would not classify one build as better than the other.

[conundrumx]

It's also a fact that most people that post those comparisions play Watchman and don't know how to play Combat properly. And do those tests without armor debuff, that despite Precision benefits combat more.

 

I played Combat from 10 to Infernal. I know how to play Combat, and I played it pretty well. While your suggestion that Combat benefits more from armor debuffs has some merit, without hard data it's just that - a suggestion. I invested some time and effort to come to the conclusion I did, and all my data and testing suggests Watchman is better than Combat for single target DPS.

 

Whine about it all you like, unless you have data to back up your claims no one will listen to you.

[thepilk]

But is this true for LEVELING? Which is what I am looking for...

 

Having done 2 Sentinels and a Maurader 1-50 in each spec I can easily say levelling Watchman is the strongest way to go for a few reasons.

 

Combat is my favorite all around spec to play, but itd be ignoring math to say Watchman doesnt outperform it in sustained and burst damage (though in my opinion its because Watchman at current OVER performs and needs to be tweaked down, its structure seems to me like its not supposed to be quite as potent in its burst as it is). Combat's edges are in mobility and target control via roots, and slightly longer range effectivness which are mainly pvp concerns

 

That said, strictly speaking in terms of leveling Watchman has many of its key abilities lower in the tree, such as overload saber, burn heals, leap perks and juyo improvments. as you level up watchman has fewer mandatory boxes that have minimal pvp effect, or even minimal effect (such as the roots/pacify range boost/early versions of combat trance). So watchman at level 20 is already a budding version of its endgame self, and only gets stronger and tighter.

 

Now, with Combat you run into an issue at level 20 of your damage actually going DOWN. When you get the Ataru stance, you no longer get the passive +10% damage to all attacks from Juyo. Instead you get a low damage proc that only occurs on 20% of attacks, and none of the combos and abilities that make them worth the trade. So, basically at level 20, the combat spec is back at level 1 so to speak, its only just now getting the groundwork set for its tree, whereas Watchman is now taking stride at level 20. Combat just doesnt really come together until level 40, when you can control your procs and combat trances.

 

Thats not to say you cant level as combat, or that combat sucks... but simply speaking its the least efficent for leveling.

Edited May 11, 2012 by thepilk

[AidanLightwalker]

I played Combat from 10 to Infernal. I know how to play Combat, and I played it pretty well. While your suggestion that Combat benefits more from armor debuffs has some merit, without hard data it's just that - a suggestion. I invested some time and effort to come to the conclusion I did, and all my data and testing suggests Watchman is better than Combat for single target DPS.

 

Whine about it all you like, unless you have data to back up your claims no one will listen to you.

 

I'm sorry dude, but I've looked over your data and its not complete. You clearly state that you used the same gear for each test. Clearly, your a watchmen fan so it s understandable that your gear is itemized for watchmen and not the other 2 specs. This is your flaw. If your combat dps is within 100 of your watchmen with watchmen itemized gear, then it is safe to assume that combat would be right there if the gear was itemized properly.

 

And if you even so much come back with "The gear for combat and watchmen are the same itemization requirements" , you will loose all creditability.

 

So you whine about it all you want. My math is just fine, and I like my numbers thank you very much.

Edited May 11, 2012 by AidanLightwalker

[conundrumx]

I'm sorry dude, but I've looked over your data and its not complete. You clearly state that you used the same gear for each test. Clearly, your a watchmen fan so it s understandable that your gear is itemized for watchmen and not the other 2 specs. This is your flaw. If your combat dps is within 100 of your watchmen with watchmen itemized gear, then it is safe to assume that combat would be right there if the gear was itemized properly.

 

What needs changing? What is improper? I don't care what spec is the highest DPS, I just want to determine for certain and use it. As I said - I played (and enjoyed) Combat thoroughly until 1.2. In the gear I was using right when 1.2 hit Watchman was still higher DPS than Combat.

 

So you whine about it all you want. My math is just fine, and I like my numbers thank you very much.

 

What math? What numbers? You're stating opinions with zero data or explanation. I'm making assertions based on research which I have posted for anyone to see and make corrections.

Edited May 12, 2012 by conundrumx

[AidanLightwalker]

What needs changing? What is improper? I don't care what spec is the highest DPS, I just want to determine for certain and use it. As I said - I played (and enjoyed) Combat thoroughly until 1.2. In the gear I was using right when 1.2 hit Watchman was still higher DPS than Combat.

 

 

 

What math? What numbers? You're stating opinions with zero data or explanation. I'm making assertions based on research which I have posted for anyone to see and make corrections.

 

For combat, you don't have enough accuracy or surge rating. Fair enough, I haven't posted any numbers because I haven't felt compelled too. I have ran my own test and have found the two specs, with proper gearing are very close. RNG - is enough to rule out the possibility of one over the other.

 

I was little to harsh on you with my comment. All i meant to point out was that your numbers are so close, that better itemized gear for each spec would put the two specs at the same place i found them as well. To close to call in a perfect world after you factor in RNG.

[conundrumx]

For combat, you don't have enough accuracy or surge rating.

 

As I understand it the benefits of accuracy cap out around 100%, and surge around 75%. I'd be very curious to see your data, what percentages (or rating totals) would you suggest accuracy and surge be at to be considered optimal for Combat?

[AidanLightwalker]

As I understand it the benefits of accuracy cap out around 100%, and surge around 75%. I'd be very curious to see your data, what percentages (or rating totals) would you suggest accuracy and surge be at to be considered optimal for Combat?

 

I try to maintain 105 accuracy and 76 - 78% surge but not at the expense of power of coarse. Crit i like to keep close to 30% and these are all without stims and such. In my test, BR makes up between 35 - 38% of my damage and Ataru ~ 22%

 

Getting BR to consistently hit and crit often makes up the majority of our sustained dps, after you factor in atura procs of coarse. Those two usually put up ~ 60% of my damage. With BS coming in around 15 - 18% and MS around 10 - 12%. The rest is just small filler junk. But getting BR to hit consistently and crit as often with a good chunk of surge - there's our sustained damage as Combat. We just have to stay on them, easier done in pve then pvp by a long shot.

[-Jodea-]

As I understand it the benefits of accuracy cap out around 100%, and surge around 75%. I'd be very curious to see your data, what percentages (or rating totals) would you suggest accuracy and surge be at to be considered optimal for Combat?

 

Agreed, the poster is getting confused by the accuracy number for combat associated with PvP X>107%, not ops or flash points where there is NO benefit for any specs to have over 100% accuracy.

[Spungey]

I try to maintain 105 accuracy and 76 - 78% surge but not at the expense of power of coarse. Crit i like to keep close to 30% and these are all without stims and such. In my test, BR makes up between 35 - 38% of my damage and Ataru ~ 22%

 

Getting BR to consistently hit and crit often makes up the majority of our sustained dps, after you factor in atura procs of coarse. Those two usually put up ~ 60% of my damage. With BS coming in around 15 - 18% and MS around 10 - 12%. The rest is just small filler junk. But getting BR to hit consistently and crit as often with a good chunk of surge - there's our sustained damage as Combat. We just have to stay on them, easier done in pve then pvp by a long shot.

 

 

wow, why are you maintaining 105% accuracy? *** for? You don't gain really anything from it. I know combat comes with alot of accuracy but there is no reason to have an accuracy enhancement in your gear if you a combat spec. It does not give Armor Penetration so why stack so much. All it does it reduce the targets chance to dodge, deflect, parry or resist your attack. The gain from placing other stats in there would make up for the extra 1 or 2 hits you will get during an encounter.

 

I don't even play Combat and I know how to play it better than most Combat sents do. The difference in itemization between the 3 specs are minimal. All specs have a built in auto crit. All specs use both force and melee attacks.. All specs gain 30% Critical Multiplier to there main dps abilities. So honestly...How is his gear not optimized.

 

The thing that gets me is that I've shown it, and a few others have shown HARD DATA on this redundant argument. Watchman is and will always be the best spec just because of how burns hardly get mitigated by anything. I've played both specs, tested both spec...Shown dps data on both spec...Watchman wins hands down.

[conundrumx]

I try to maintain 105 accuracy and 76 - 78% surge but not at the expense of power of coarse.

 

Keep in mind, the screenshots I took of stats were with no forms active. When Combat spec'd my accuracy would be 6% higher, or 107.98%. My surge was lower than you'd like (you want the exact DR point, I was slightly below it), and my crit was right on target.

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I really do just want to have and share accurate information. I have addressed each and every one of your concerns as a non issue, or a mistake on your part, and I still feel confident that my data is accurate. There is no way 5% surge would somehow add 100 DPS to Combat and none to Watchman.

Edited May 12, 2012 by conundrumx

[Ainianu]

I swap and change between all specs fairly often and i really enjoy the playing of all 3 spec's and they all have their merit. It is not my place to tell someone what to play just because i prefer it.

 

The fact is.. all solo PvE content is completely trivial in any of the 3 spec's all the way to 50, and even at 50 i can solo all the heroic daily quests also in any of the 3 spec's.

I really do not understand why people ask for spec's rather than experiment themselves. This is why you get so many watchman spec sentinels who play it because they was told it was the best... by others who told them it was the best... and so on. With tons of sentinels who have never even played combat or focus spec or even give it enough time to fully 'understand' it or get used to it when they do try it. (And yet they will freely tell you their spec is the best. This can also apply to players of combat spec also i guess who may not have tried watchman)

 

In a static environment such as a lot of PvE encounters which are predictable and you can essentially perform your abilities without interruption i would rate the spec's as follows:

 

Combat spec: is your glass cannon dps, its lowest in survivability, highest in raw dps (assuming no lag) with no real extra utility of worth for PvE. (most of its frills are pvp specific). Its only drawback for PvE is as stated its lowest survivability of all spec's (it has other PvP related advantages and drawbacks that i wont go into though)

 

Watchman spec: is the all-round spec. It is good survivability, not really much of a drop in dps compared to Combat. It has a bit of a build up to get the most out of its dps but its got fast interrupts, 0 range leap and some nice healing built in. This spec is really 'good' at everything and has no real drawback.

 

Focus spec: Is really an AoE spec and despite this, its single target dps is really not that bad at all. It is a lot of fun in solo PvE content as you will generally be fighting more than 1 opponent most of the time so will for that reason alone outdamage both other specs by a long way, and even on a single target its not 'that' far behind the other two. Its main drawback is it cannot be used too much around CC'd targets which can limit its use in group-PvE content.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Ainianu

[conundrumx]

Combat spec: is your glass cannon dps, its lowest in survivability, highest in raw dps (assuming no lag)

 

This is wrong. It may have been the design intent, but it is not the reality.

Edited May 12, 2012 by conundrumx

[AidanLightwalker]

Agreed, the poster is getting confused by the accuracy number for combat associated with PvP X>107%, not ops or flash points where there is NO benefit for any specs to have over 100% accuracy.

 

Not entirely true dude. As others have posted before, i have logs that show that atura has double proc-ed, be it a bug or not. Specially on attacks thst strike with both weapons. Taking time on dummy, and the number of atura hits, the resulting math shows some atura hits coming in before the 1.5 icd. And even with 105% accuracy, ill still miss 38 BR in a 6 min window. I'm not the only combat sentinel that has observed this. That off hand hitting increasing the proc chance helps. I did some tests tonight again already, will post in the am, where combat for me was 120 dps higher., granted my gear is combat optimized

[AidanLightwalker]

Keep in mind, the screenshots I took of stats were with no forms active. When Combat spec'd my accuracy would be 6% higher, or 107.98%. My surge was lower than you'd like (you want the exact DR point, I was slightly below it), and my crit was right on target.

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I really do just want to have and share accurate information. I have addressed each and every one of your concerns as a non issue, or a mistake on your part, and I still feel confident that my data is accurate. There is no way 5% surge would somehow add 100 DPS to Combat and none to Watchman.

 

Atura form gives ya 3% accuracy, unless you are counting another 3% from talents, which you should has as watchmen anyways as well.

[conundrumx]

Atura form gives ya 3% accuracy, unless you are counting another 3% from talents, which you should has as watchmen anyways as well.

 

In Rakata gear or better your accuracy will easily break 100%, better to invest those 3 skill points elsewhere as Watchman.