Craftable armor dye kits.

[WaliceDrel]

care to show the ways it will actually help the economy? selling crafted dye kits would boost the economy cause honestly it causes MUCH more harm than good. as it is right now there are many niches with appearance vs utility in regards to crafted gear, most notably with orange gear. even with blues and purples there are ways you can sell, and do it justifiably with how itmezation works. adding an appearance tab destroys every one of those niches since it completely destoys the appearance angle of the gear itself. False. Have you ever played a game with euip apperance or a apperance tab? the few additional niches that are opened for crafted gear that is currently "unwearable" then have to compete with other green drops and general quest rewards. overall this means my profits get considerably slashed.False. just lol

 

beyond that, dye systems have only worked well in 1 game.False again I can think of 4 off the top of my head. eq, swg, gw2,lotro, tera ect ect. that game had gear specifically designed with that system in mindFalse. to redo that kind of system here would require a complete retexturing of all gear currently in gameFalse programing 101. If you knew anything about programing you would realize how ridiculous that statement is. If you have used the unify colors button in swtor you have in essence used a dye kit. You just didn't get to pick the color or trim. I estimate 23 lines of code a few tweaks and the creation of a dye kit icon then implement it in the game, simple .. otherwise you end up with things like white and black showing as shades of grey, and other colors showing as varying shades due to how texture actually effects appearance. rift especially had this issue. running through the different color options available to attempt to match colors on various outfits was an exercise in frustration. This is not the pos rift engine

 

so before blatantly saying im wrong, please show me how i am? i will more than gladly support you if you can convince me otherwise.

Dude you not even worth replying to. You just make things up and hope ppl believe you. This is a important issue. If you have some real fact then fine post them. But I nor anyone else is going to waste our time replying to false statements.

Edited May 12, 2012 by WaliceDrel

[Aram_Darksun]

adding an appearance tab destroys every one of those niches since it completely destoys the appearance angle of the gear itself. the few additional niches that are opened for crafted gear that is currently "unwearable" then have to compete with other green drops and general quest rewards. overall this means my profits get considerably slashed.

 

Just responding to that one point. Appearance tabs also open up a second set of gear people can wear at any one time. It also opens up the possibility of people collecting multiple sets for different looks. It also frees up people to select different and more armour that they may have liked the appearance of but declined to obtain because of the stats. This includes recipes for items you make.

 

In all those cases appearance slots are creating more demand for more items.

 

It also livens the market for those loot drops.

 

That being said I do see where you are coming from and I think consideration should be shown to crafters, giving them the lions share of appearance options to craft. This is another way appearance slots are good because crafters can compete for appearance instead of competing with the stats of raid and operations gear.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Aram_Darksun

[MaximusRex]

No they wouldn't. Dye systems never work properly.

 

They only game I have ever played with armor dye, LOTRO, they work exactly as you would expect, making your statement untrue.

[Havokk]

They only game I have ever played with armor dye, LOTRO, they work exactly as you would expect, making your statement untrue.

I'm going to disagree slightly with you there. The dye kits were pretty good but did some bizarre things. For example, I had a nice set of chainmail armour I dyed blue. It came out striped! I looked like Wally! Since there was no dye preview at that time, my money (dark blue dye was expensive) was wasted.

 

Now, with that out of the way, yes, I agree with the OP. Bioware, please add a dye system.

[mattgyver]

/agree to adding. At least for chest piece.

[livnthedream]

Dude you not even worth replying to. You just make things up and hope ppl believe you. This is a important issue. If you have some real fact then fine post them. But I nor anyone else is going to waste our time replying to false statements.

 

like what exactly you mean like

 

False programing 101. If you knew anything about programing you would realize how ridiculous that statement is. If you have used the unify colors button in swtor you have in essence used a dye kit. You just didn't get to pick the color or trim. I estimate 23 lines of code a few tweaks and the creation of a dye kit icon then implement it in the game, simple

 

you know the art director actually explained at the guild summit (the actual panel escaped me at the moment) of how they actually went back through the different color schemes to actually match colors after texture mesh. its not the same thing at all. or maybe

 

selling crafted dye kits would boost the economy

 

which would "boost" the economy after destroying the rest of it. personally i would like to be able to sell more than just dye kits. right now i can sell a plethora of different orange appearances, for both sides, because i have access to the patterns and the mats. while this may be an improvement for you, because you dont, this would hurt a large number of crafters. it would also completely invalidate a number of orange recipes, as making anything past the level 11 and 23 sets would be cost prohibitive.

 

False. just lol

 

really? with an appearance tab there is 0 reason to purchase a blue or purple for appearance. the majority of green items also being available as drops (either random, or quest) would mean that if i wanted to actually fill the appearance niche as a crafter, i then have to directly compare with the green looks currently available on the gtn. besides the fact that greens in general arent posted high enough to be able to cover most mats, not to mention actually making profit.

 

False again I can think of 4 off the top of my head. eq, swg, gw2,lotro, tera ect ect

 

eq, had shade issues. gw2 has the armor directly designed for the system, lotro, no first hand experience but i have heard repeatedly that it suffers from the same shading issues, tera, havent seen of head anything of this feature. rift suffers badly from the shading issue, and it is the one that i have the most experience with.

 

This is not the pos rift engine

 

so gambryo is pos now? last i checked its pretty damn good (you should look at its content and game lists before you pronounce it pos) and has stood up under better scrutiny than hero has. even without that, these are the very same issues that this games art director brought up when the idea of dye kits was asked at guild summit. perhaps you should get off your high horse just a bit and actually challenge him on the issue, because im pretty sure he knows the games and systems much better than both of us.

 

Just responding to that one point. Appearance tabs also open up a second set of gear people can wear at any one time. It also opens up the possibility of people collecting multiple sets for different looks. It also frees up people to select different and more armour that they may have liked the appearance of but declined to obtain because of the stats. This includes recipes for items you make.

 

the only items that dont serve a "purpose" that are craftable are the poorly statted suffix items. the rest, appearance aside, have mechanical reasons to grab them. even with how the game currently is you can pick up multiple sets for looks. i know i have a bank full of them on my warrior. i really need to go through and get rid of some but i havent found the time. they have stated that they are working on getting all of the existing gear skins available as orange pieces, which solves this issue, and keeps the existing economy intact.

 

In all those cases appearance slots are creating more demand for more items.

It also livens the market for those loot drops.

 

a demand for appearance at the cost of mechanics. as stated above, most of the looks exist in multiple places. if this goes forward the craftable ones would then have to compete with them, which would be a major swing in the existing economy, making all orange items universal, therefore invalidating a large number of items.

 

That being said I do see where you are coming from and I think consideration should be shown to crafters, giving them the lions share of appearance options to craft. This is another way appearance slots are good because crafters can compete for appearance instead of competing with the stats of raid and operations gear.

 

thats what the orange system is already achieving. you want to change up the entire system for no real reason.

Edited May 14, 2012 by livnthedream

[HeavensAgent]

They only game I have ever played with armor dye, LOTRO, they work exactly as you would expect, making your statement untrue.

There has never been a game that successfully implemented a dye system that functioned as intended or desired. LOTRO included, as was pointed out.

[wargonglok]

only one negative

 

war hero normal, and uber version is just different colors

 

but i would love to see this

 

purple and yellow trooper!!!!!!!!:):):):):)

[wargonglok]

There has never been a game that successfully implemented a dye system that functioned as intended or desired. LOTRO included, as was pointed out.

 

lotros dye system was perfect, i really have never encountered the issues that you are talking about

 

and why would someone be against this? people who are against this are the same fun haters that got rid of my smugglers laugh

[HeavensAgent]

lotros dye system was perfect, i really have never encountered the issues that you are talking about

You should note I was not the one speaking about them.

 

Of course, that you never encountered said issues obviously means they never really existed. Everyone else must simply be lying.

[livnthedream]

lotros dye system was perfect, i really have never encountered the issues that you are talking about

 

and why would someone be against this? people who are against this are the same fun haters that got rid of my smugglers laugh

 

really? you can look at this wki page on it

 

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Dyes

 

where if you look at colors (especially the lighter ones, like turquoise, yellow, white) the texture of the cloth effects what the color looks like. that white especially being grey looks terrible. the only way you can get a "set" to look the same, is if all of the pieces have the same texture. in other words, only sets that were designed to be sets would be able to all have the same shade, unless you went shade by shade and specifically matched each and every piece. even then you will have differences based on lighting etc. its far from "perfect" as you like to put it, and one of the major reasons why dye systems dont work correctly, or even well.

[WaliceDrel]

Just out of curiosity. heavensagent and livingthedream are you the same person on 2 different accounts? Your post and phrasing and quote style and points are VERY VERY similar on several armor dye and equip appearance, custom sabers threads. And usually right after each other. Just wondering. Edited May 17, 2012 by WaliceDrel

[HeavensAgent]

Just out of curiosity. heavensagent and living the dream are you the same person on 2 different accounts? Your post and phrasing and quote style and points are VERY VERY similar.

Nope, we're not.

[WaliceDrel]

Must just be a coincidence how on almost all of your crafting posts livingthedreamm chimes in right after you. My mistake just thought I would ask. Edited May 17, 2012 by WaliceDrel

[livnthedream]

Just out of curiosity. heavensagent and livingthedream are you the same person on 2 different accounts? Your post and phrasing and quote style and points are VERY VERY similar on several armor dye and equip appearance threads. And usually right after each other. Just wondering.

 

we both spend a chunk of time on this forum. i personally pop into the tradeskills and pve forums from time to time but got really tired of telling people immutable facts based on game mechanics and then being told i was wrong by morons. here atleast its more of a general debate of principles rather than quantifiable numbers.

 

while heaven and i do share many viewpoints we have clashed in the past on a few.

[HeavensAgent]

while heaven and i do share many viewpoints we have clashed in the past on a few.

Hehe, indeed. We're both fairly passionate about our respective opinions as well. When we do butt heads, we tend to go at it for a while.

[Aram_Darksun]

 

the only items that dont serve a "purpose" that are craftable are the poorly statted suffix items. the rest, appearance aside, have mechanical reasons to grab them. even with how the game currently is you can pick up multiple sets for looks. i know i have a bank full of them on my warrior. i really need to go through and get rid of some but i havent found the time. they have stated that they are working on getting all of the existing gear skins available as orange pieces, which solves this issue, and keeps the existing economy intact.

 

a demand for appearance at the cost of mechanics. as stated above, most of the looks exist in multiple places. if this goes forward the craftable ones would then have to compete with them, which would be a major swing in the existing economy, making all orange items universal, therefore invalidating a large number of items.

 

thats what the orange system is already achieving. you want to change up the entire system for no real reason.

 

Agree on the horrible suffix items.

 

I have many sets of armour stashed in my bank too, this includes crafted ones that I won't use because the stats.

Having appearance slots would free me up to change my appearance at will without effecting my stats which as I raid I can't compromise on at the moment. It isn't even really an option to use un-augmented custom. Yes this would free all those loot drops to compete for appearance but it also frees up every crafted item to do the same.

 

Would you mind linking the quote about 'gear skins'?

 

How does it cost mechanics? What mechanics? You still need all mechanics as your 'stat' gear. Appearance slots only add the choice to obtain multiple new sets merely for a change in appearance. These are all sets in addition to what players currently have.

 

Yes it opens up all those loot drops, 'as stated above' but all the crafted items that may have been disregarded because of it's stats or because of it's appearance are also made equally valid options.

 

The custom gear still has many unique (textures if not models). Any shift would not move from custom to loot exclusively, it would also move to all of your crafted pieces.

 

If there is a drop in custom demand at all it would be swallowed by the combination of demand for the other crafted items and for the fact that people will get multiple MORE sets, over and beyond the one stat/appearance compromise they currently have.

 

The custom system isn't achieving it. It gives you some measure of choice yes but your still limited to those custom looks, and choosing to apply or not, a texture defined by an often questionable match to the chest. That is a very real reason, suffice to say, I am going to ignore your attempt to belittle my reasoning.

[Pyrocan]

Can we add hair dye too and allow the weird colors like Hot pink, purple, and neon green

i like it! aha aha

/signed

[SentinelDranoel]

If they do then I rather it be in-game vendor prices or I would not be for it.

1. Players will increase the price of certain colors.

2. If craftable then it has to be able to be attainable by everyone and not just for those that play for example Operations.

3. Rather pay for it with real money then rely on the community like in Guild Wars. Never got in that game black because I had to grind and hope it drops or grind for money to purchase it.

[livnthedream]

Agree on the horrible suffix items.

 

I have many sets of armour stashed in my bank too, this includes crafted ones that I won't use because the stats.

Having appearance slots would free me up to change my appearance at will without effecting my stats which as I raid I can't compromise on at the moment. It isn't even really an option to use un-augmented custom. Yes this would free all those loot drops to compete for appearance but it also frees up every crafted item to do the same.

 

Would you mind linking the quote about 'gear skins'?

 

first, if you "cant compromise" your aug slots you need to play better. aug slots both put you above the gear curve, and increase your survivability MUCH faster and better than they increase dps. considering that even the survival aspect is minor, and very easily mitigated by paying attention, you can easily skip them without issue,

 

that said, its touched on

at the 24min mark. actual dye kits are touched on in that same vid at 29:30. i know they went into better detail on another panel, i believe it was the "all the rest panel" but i dont have time to go through all of the videos to pull out the exact timestamp. you can find a list of all of the panels here http://toroz.com.au/2012/04/2012-guild-summit-videos-now-available/

 

How does it cost mechanics? What mechanics? You still need all mechanics as your 'stat' gear. Appearance slots only add the choice to obtain multiple new sets merely for a change in appearance. These are all sets in addition to what players currently have.

 

Yes it opens up all those loot drops, 'as stated above' but all the crafted items that may have been disregarded because of it's stats or because of it's appearance are also made equally valid options.

 

because value wise, especially for appearance, it equates all items to greens, as they are the easiest to acquire and produce. it terms of mechanics it equates them to the lvl 11 and 23 patterns in terms of mechanics, as those are generally the cheapest oranges to produce, especially in a crit crafted fashion. generally, and its especially true while leveling, oranges are better than purple recipes. with the purples only beating them with a t2 prefix and correct itemization, when its much easier, and likely, to find the mods for those levels instead.

 

a tabs would be a GREAT change for the consumer, in the short term, because it would drops existing prices. however, in the long term it would destroy the sconomy. once prices drop to the point that crafters CANT compete and make a decent percentage of profit, they wont craft. when crafters stop crafting, you wont be able to easily find any of those patterns that you desire.

 

The custom gear still has many unique (textures if not models). Any shift would not move from custom to loot exclusively, it would also move to all of your crafted pieces.

 

except there are few to zero patterns that are currently crafter exclusive. i havent found any atleast.

 

If there is a drop in custom demand at all it would be swallowed by the combination of demand for the other crafted items and for the fact that people will get multiple MORE sets, over and beyond the one stat/appearance compromise they currently have.

 

thats actually not true. why would you buy from a crafter if you can get it for free, or cheaper, as a drop? why as a crafter would i make items that i cant make a decent percentage return on?

 

The custom system isn't achieving it. It gives you some measure of choice yes but your still limited to those custom looks, and choosing to apply or not, a texture defined by an often questionable match to the chest. That is a very real reason, suffice to say, I am going to ignore your attempt to belittle my reasoning.

 

see, this is where we disagree. the custom system is working as intended. what it needs, and what bioware has repeatedly stated they will give "soon", is more options. after playing with the orange system i really cant see how solid statted gear will have a place going forward, and in point of fact its the next logical step from wow with its reforge system. the existing crafting system in tsw is also very similar, though they go about it in a very different way.

[Aram_Darksun]

disregard. Edited May 22, 2012 by Aram_Darksun

[Compuneek]

It would be nice to have a craftable dye system to accompany match to chest. As in, you match items to the chest plate and then you can choose a main/secondary colour theme. For instance, my Jedi Guardian Columi War Leader set is generally a yellow colour. You can then apply red, [yellow], green, blue, white, grey and black colour schemes to it. You aren't choosing an exact colour - the crafting skill only allows you to apply one of the above seven colours to your armour set, and you will get a colour that was pre-designed for that particular chestpiece. This way, you don't get colours that 'don't work' because they were all pre-selected. You only choose a colour 'category'. Because of the existing database that has been done on other armour pieces to allow them to match to chestpiece colour, this would just be an extension of the existing system. Therefore, if I dyed my Columi chestpiece black, then my rakatas and black holes would adjust their colour match to that of a black chestpiece. There's backwards compatibility with added functionality. The skill could go to synthweaving and armormech, since they make armour in the first place.

 

It keeps most people happy, since 'pro-dye' people get their customization options, and 'anti-dye' people don't have to worry about people looking completely ridiculous in bright pink Sith armour or something. It also keeps BioWare's existing work relevant, and it stimulates the economy through crew skills. If I've missed something, please let me know

 

Anyway, just my thoughts.