Subs down 25%

[Dezzi]

You are in no objective position to state why various players leave this game or any other game. You can objectively comment about why you leave the game, but that's it.

 

So basically, you are just making sweeping generalizations, based on your opinion, and calling them fact.

 

Wait a minute. Woah woah...

 

Don't you spend just about every minute of your forum-posting time generalizing about the motives of players and their reasons for leaving the game? A short romp through your posting history speaks volumes to that end.

[DarthVindictus]

Brainwashed!?... Wow, it's seriously only a matter of time before the conspiracy theories start rolling out.

 

Did you know Blizzard was part of the Illuminati?

 

By the way, Monthly pay is necessary in MMO's to pay for servers and for developers to create content and yes SOME money goes to pockets because games are not Non-profit. When you get older you'll learn about these things in school.

 

Uh, no, see the servers, are the cheapest part of MMO monthly expenditures now. They may not have been at the start of the genre, but they are now.

 

New content? Admittingly free new content comes slower in a game that does not have a subscription cost, normally limited to balancing, bug fixes, and things that were already in development but didn't make it for launch

 

What happens in a game that has no subscription fee or item mall business model (say Guild Wars before Eye of the North when they decided to work on GW2 rather than continuing to make expansions for GW)? They make new content, but focus it all in expansions.

 

Now you might say, AHA! See! My subscription money goes to making FREE content in between expansions! Meanwhile you pay for expansions!

 

But see.. subscription MMO's still have paid expansions. So they get you twice. They push out a piece of content here or there in between, while still focusing most of their development on content for the next paid expansion.

 

Not to mention, do you really think that what we've gotten in 4 months since release constitutes enough to be a full priced game? because that's how much you paid. (well, barring the free months they give out)

 

What I mean by brainwashing is that you've been led to believe that the subscriptions are necessary for servers to stay up.

 

They're not. First Person Shooters, games on battle.net like starcraft, or diablo, or Guild Wars, none of them have subscriptions, the servers for them stay up for years and years after the game is not even on the shelves anymore in many cases. It was only recently that like, Capcom started pulling the plug on games for the Gamecube and PS2 and xbox that they decided no longer to support. The servers are a miniscule part of their operating cost.

 

What subscriptions do, is allow developers to essentially kick off their shoes and lighten their workload.

 

If it wasn't for a subscription, they'd have to be hard at work back developing, either a new game, or an exapnsion, or DLC, with subscriptions they can wait on that for awhile, doing smaller amounts of work for free content patches (a lot of it having been in development before launch)

 

Though I think a lot of people truly still believe subscriptions are necessary. Look at Bobby Kotick now trying to push for subscription rates on FPS's.... MATCHMAKING based FPS's at that. Call of Duty Elite. If he has his way, gamers will start thinking FPS's need to have a subscription too.

[Andryah]

I'm a "hard core" MMO player. I bought their CE edition. I wanted this game to last.

 

Too bad, patch after patch, step after step, they have totally ruined the game.

 

The lack of communication and follow through is infuriating.

 

Then they post their POD CAST in which they sit around congratulating themselves on what a good job they did?

 

This game deserves to burn in flames for their hubris.

 

That is a giant big bottle of bitter you have there.

[Andryah]

Its not the 1.2 million players that makes people worry, it is the alarming rate of subs lost that concerns people.

 

NO, actually what really concerns people most is that they do not have enough other players on their server in some cases, and no way to remedy that until server transfers are live. It is the current complaint de jour.

 

The subscription numbers being down in the latest earnings report would mean nothing to anyone who actually likes the game IF there were not population issues on some servers. Only the real game haters care.... the ones that love to jump into thread and lace it up with snark like "FAIL", and "GAME OVER" not to mention the very popular one of the haters back in January "FREE 2 PLAY BY APRIL".

 

Seriously, most people really could care less, as long as their server is healthy and they can find plenty of people to play with in game. Fatman rerolls is example proof of that, as are others who have re-rolled.

[DarthVindictus]

You are in no objective position to state why various players leave this game or any other game. You can objectively comment about why you leave the game, but that's it.

 

So basically, you are just making sweeping generalizations, based on your opinion, and calling them fact.

 

But listen to why people are leaving.

 

"No endgame" when a matter of fact there is end game, it's just mediocre endgame compared to what is in other games that focus on gameplay rather than drama filled dialogue.

 

"Fail PVP"

 

Again.

 

People are leaving because it's a mediocre MMO.

[Andryah]

Wait a minute. Woah woah...

 

Don't you spend just about every minute of your forum-posting time generalizing about the motives of players and their reasons for leaving the game? A short romp through your posting history speaks volumes to that end.

 

What's your point? I rarely make sweeping generalizations. Just because my views about the game are so different then yours does not mean I am making sweeping generalizations that cannot be proven. When I have an opinion with supporting fact I say so. When I have an opinion, but have nothing to base it on other then my own view of things, I actually make a point of saying so, unlike the person I responded to. AND I reverse the process when I see such sweeping generalizations as the one I responded to.

 

Now, since you opened it up.....a short romp through your posting history would find many statements that are opinion, sometimes with sweeping generalizations, but more often you (like me) keep it reasonablly close to the ground rather then up in hyperbole at 50K ft. . So while we don't often agree in forum discussion, I don't attack you with " woah, woah, wait a minute... yada yada" when I disagree with you. An apology is in order IMO.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Andryah

[PepinoCantador]

But listen to why people are leaving.

 

"No endgame" when a matter of fact there is end game, it's just mediocre endgame compared to what is in other games that focus on gameplay rather than drama filled dialogue.

 

"Fail PVP"

 

Again.

 

People are leaving because it's a mediocre MMO.

 

Yeah! They're leaving because there is only 1 raid people do anyway, and even it is just paint by numbers rote memorization at this point.

 

Good thing other games are much more robust in that regard!

[Haeso]

Second, because of how popular it was at launch, they had to expand servers.. unfortunately.. the third point happened and the game was going to go downhill.

 

Logical fallacy, they did not have to expand servers. Queue times for the first month indicate a healthy server for the foreseeable future of the game barring game-wide desertion.

 

Subscriber numbers drop after the free month and the first paid month, these are observable facts about MMO launches - furthermore, playtime per subscriber also drops.

 

Protip: The number of accounts active per server is anywhere from 3-5 times the total number of players the server can handle at any given time in an MMO, this is a staple of the industry. Furthermore, after the first month playtime per subscriber drops quite a bit, 50% is a conservative estimate. You want queue times and full servers for the first two months - that's how you know your server will be healthy in the long term, now if the developers were competent and immediately merged servers after the second or third month, we'd all be fine. But they didn't. And they won't be any time soon. They shot themselves in the foot then they poured lemon juice and salt all over the wound. Before cutting off the leg in order to save the foot.

[Dezzi]

What's your point? I rarely make sweeping generalizations. Just because my views about the game are so different then yours does not mean I am making sweeping generalizations that cannot be proven. When I have an opinion with supporting fact I say so. When I have an opinion, but have nothing to base it on other then my own view of things, I actually make a point of saying so, unlike the person I responded to.

 

Now, since you opened it up.....a short romp through your posting history would find many statements that are opinion, sometimes with sweeping generalizations, but more often you like me keep it reasonablly close to the ground rather then up in hyperbole at 50K ft. .

 

Generalizations are a great tool in rhetoric to highlight fallacies and occasional idiocy. I use them frequently to make points, and they have their place in reasoned discussion; however, thank the Maker this isn't the debate team. That said, I'm not the one who called someone out for using them while I myself use them.

 

You do make generalizations, Andryah; you frequently generalize the attitudes and frames of mind of the player base when it suits your argument. There's nothing wrong with that (when kept reasonable), but don't pretend to have the moral high ground by pointing the proverbial finger at others.

[Frostvein]

People are leaving because it's a mediocre MMO.

 

Mediocre is generous, but basically this.

[PepinoCantador]

Mediocre is generous, but basically this.

 

Oh yeah, there is definitely no irony in calling this mediocre while playing Tera.

 

None at all.

[evildestroyer]

I find it sad that its prime time and we have

 

1 Server full

1 Very heavy

55 Standard

And the rest light

 

I remember back in January there would be 10-20 light servers during prime time with like 20-30 Heavy/Full and rest standard. Now look at it, Light servers are now the majority. Sure we have 25% decease in subs but it sure feels like a higher decrease in actual people playing.

Just about everyone i know quit the game cause of dead servers and its getting worse. Bioware brought this upon themselves.

[Andryah]

Generalizations are a great tool in rhetoric to highlight fallacies and occasional idiocy. I use them frequently to make points, and they have their place in reasoned discussion; however, thank the Maker this isn't the debate team. That said, I'm not the one who called someone out for using them while I myself use them.

 

Funny, because you just attacked me on the very grounds you claim you don't do.

 

Generalizations are a great tool in rhetoric to highlight fallacies and occasional idiocy. I use them frequently to make points, and they have their place in reasoned discussion; however, thank the Maker this isn't the debate team. That said, I'm not the one who called someone out for using them while I myself use them.

 

You do make generalizations, Andryah; you frequently generalize the attitudes and frames of mind of the player base when it suits your argument. There's nothing wrong with that (when kept reasonable), but don't pretend to have the moral high ground by pointing the proverbial finger at others.

 

 

There is no moral highground in a game forum, give it a rest. This passive aggressive method of attacking me is getting old.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Andryah

[DarthVindictus]

Mediocre is generous, but basically this.

 

I say Mediocre because I've seen worse, and I've seen better (and I mean medocre for the PVE. the PVP is downright terrible)

 

to give you an idea, I downloaded Age of Conan and tried that out.

 

What a mess.

 

I can't believe people are excited for TSW.

 

I wouldn't trust Funcom to do anything wright after Anarchy Online and Age of Conan. That's a track record you just don't want.

[Dezzi]

Funny, because you just attacked me on the very grounds you claim you don't do.

 

There is no moral highground in a game forum, give it a rest. This passive aggressive method of attacking me is getting old.

 

I didn't attack you. I pointed out--using your own standard--how silly it was for you to call someone out for generalizing; you were the one getting on that poster for generalizing--you made it the issue.

 

Don't be so defensive. We were finally getting along.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Dezzi

[Wolfeisberg]

Logical fallacy, they did not have to expand servers. Queue times for the first month indicate a healthy server for the foreseeable future of the game barring game-wide desertion.

 

Subscriber numbers drop after the free month and the first paid month, these are observable facts about MMO launches - furthermore, playtime per subscriber also drops.

 

Protip: The number of accounts active per server is anywhere from 3-5 times the total number of players the server can handle at any given time in an MMO, this is a staple of the industry. Furthermore, after the first month playtime per subscriber drops quite a bit, 50% is a conservative estimate. You want queue times and full servers for the first two months - that's how you know your server will be healthy in the long term, now if the developers were competent and immediately merged servers after the second or third month, we'd all be fine. But they didn't. And they won't be any time soon. They shot themselves in the foot then they poured lemon juice and salt all over the wound. Before cutting off the leg in order to save the foot.

 

You know how upset people would be if they couldn't really play the game the first couple months because the queue times took up most of their play time? Queue times don't effect people who have a lot of time, but can be detrimental to those who don't have a lot of time.

[DarthVindictus]

Funny, because you just attacked me on the very grounds you claim you don't do.

 

 

 

 

There is no moral highground in a game forum, give it a rest. This passive aggressive method of attacking me is getting old.

 

There is a moral highground to arguing on a game forum, you just argue against the points that other people make, rather than argue against the poster.

 

Though admittingly, everyone argues ad hominem at some point or another.

Edited May 11, 2012 by DarthVindictus

[Frostvein]

Oh yeah, there is definitely no irony in calling this mediocre while playing Tera.

 

None at all.

 

Tera has more MMO features then TOR. Yea, the IP sucks.

[DarthVindictus]

Tera has more MMO features then TOR. Yea, the IP sucks.

 

TERA is still a one trick pony though. It's sticking with the tired old MMO mechanics in every way, its just utilizing a different combat mechanic.

 

GW2 has.. many tricks in comparison, including a different combat system.

[dankat]

This is sad and all but...my server is still standard and my guild is growing so...I don't really give a damn. Good day ! Edited May 11, 2012 by dankat

[Aurrelio]

Hi.

 

Please note that this discussion is quickly becoming off-topic.

 

Please keep in mind the original topic of this thread and try to keep the discussion relevant to that topic.

 

Thanks.

[DarthVindictus]

Hi.

 

Please note that this discussion is quickly becoming off-topic.

 

Please keep in mind the original topic of this thread and try to keep the discussion relevant to that topic.

 

Thanks.

 

Well the on topic discussion can be summed up nicely.

 

The game is losing subscribers, with a lot of people feeling they are on "dead" servers.

 

What is Bioware going to do to stem the loss of subscriptions and in fact potentially reverse the trend into growth?

 

Hint: Keep on doing what you're already doing is not working.

[Nyteblades]

Well the on topic discussion can be summed up nicely.

 

The game is losing subscribers, with a lot of people feeling they are on "dead" servers.

 

What is Bioware going to do to stem the loss of subscriptions and in fact potentially reverse the trend into growth?

 

Hint: Keep on doing what you're already doing is not working.

 

Your right its sad but true. They are to busy getting lost in thier own fluff and flash to realy give a dam about what we need to keep the game viable to those of us on a dead server.

 

And for those who say well they said early summer or they working on it.. Thats complete bull.... It should not take 3 or more months to implement something that should be operating in a months time at the most. And if it does its for 1 of 2 reasons ...Either they are incompetent or holding it back intentionaly. Theres no other reason than those 2 for it to take that long.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Nyteblades

[Zsavooz]

TERA is still a one trick pony though. It's sticking with the tired old MMO mechanics in every way, its just utilizing a different combat mechanic.

 

GW2 has.. many tricks in comparison, including a different combat system.

 

disagree, The political system will make this game very interesting. It's got a very active Dev team that actually communicates with its users, and best part, you actually see people playing.

[Stalkobot]

 

The game is losing subscribers, with a lot of people feeling they are on "dead" servers.

 

Haha, you and the investors report should stop trolling, after all Daniel Erickson, (Lead Game Designer apparantly) clearly stated just over a week before this smear document emerged, that subscriptions had not dropped......

Edited May 11, 2012 by Stalkobot