Nerf Jedi Sentinel

[iheartnyc]

here's my line of thinking: Aren't Sentinals/Marauders SUPPOSED to DPS way better than everyone else? That's how the class was marketed, in-game and out. Every other class can fill two roles, whether it is DPS, or Tanking or Healing, or a hybrid. But our dual lightsaber wielding friends? Not so much. Their only role is DPS. I deleted my sentinal about a month ago, but at the time, sentinals and marauders were almost useless, between all the stuns and slows they could be hit with, and frankly, they had defense that seemed only slightly better than a Sage or Sorcorer. Mercs and Vanguards and Sorcs and Guardians ruled PVP. Sorcs more so than others, but that has since been addressed.

 

Granted, I think what BioWare should have done was bring Sents/Mara's up to the point of everyone else, instead off nerfing every other class, but my main point is that Sents and Maras are SUPPOSED to deal a high amount of damage very quickly. In a situation where everyone is in a timed zone, like a Huttball or another Warzone, the faster you can deal your damage, the higher it will show at the end of the match, especially in comparison to some classes that are a bit slower at DPS.

 

TL;DR: Sents and Maras are supposed to deal more damage in a shorter time frame. They don't really have any other benefits. Get over it.

 

I agree that the BH and Sorcs were OP prior to 1.2. What I don't agree with is what utility BH and Sorcs play now in PVP? (those are actually my two main PVP toons). Aside from doing DPS, what else are we supposed to be doing?

 

Anyways I'm going to have to reroll either an Assasin or Marauder...still haven't decided.

[OmegaLantern]

I agree that the BH and Sorcs were OP prior to 1.2. What I don't agree with is what utility BH and Sorcs play now in PVP? (those are actually my two main PVP toons). Aside from doing DPS, what else are we supposed to be doing?

 

Anyways I'm going to have to reroll either an Assasin or Marauder...still haven't decided.

 

I'm actually having a pretty good time doing ranged DPS and Healing with my Sorc. And that alt is only at level 21. Since Bounty Hunter is a mirror of Trooper, he can also tank or heal in addition to DPS.

[iheartnyc]

I'm actually having a pretty good time doing ranged DPS and Healing with my Sorc. And that alt is only at level 21. Since Bounty Hunter is a mirror of Trooper, he can also tank or heal in addition to DPS.

 

My focus is and always has been on doing max DPS. I enjoy finding ways of eeking out every last drop of DPS in a WZ, and really, there is absolutely no advantage that a DPS sorcerer has over a sentinel/marauder at this point. Except maybe the versatility in being able to respec to a healing class.

 

Sentinel/Marauder has the edge in both damage dealing ability and survivability. A DPS sorc's only advantage prior to 1.2 was its burst ability and AOE ability, but both have since been nerfed to the point of uselessness. You will not see a single effective "lightning" Sorc anymore.

 

As an aside, a lightning sorc can be very effective in PVE, and maybe best in game as far as dealing with mobs are concerned. But we all know that in PVP the whole "holy trinity" team structure thing does not work.

 

It's really sad. By the time I grind War Hero for a Marauder/Assasin, I fear that class too will be nerfed and worthless.

Edited May 10, 2012 by iheartnyc

[avpan]

Can't you just admit the guy is good and you can't beat him and his team?

 

Maybe its because you guys aren't equipped enough to handle dps output to put the sentinel down before his healer heals him?

 

I'm sure he dies without his healer. That's probably your problem . If you don't kill the healer who is geared to tooth how on earth can you kill the sentinel that is geared to tooth?

 

Get better and learn strategy instead of coming ot forums to whine.

[iheartnyc]

Can't you just admit the guy is good and you can't beat him and his team?

 

Maybe its because you guys aren't equipped enough to handle dps output to put the sentinel down before his healer heals him?

 

I'm sure he dies without his healer. That's probably your problem . If you don't kill the healer who is geared to tooth how on earth can you kill the sentinel that is geared to tooth?

 

Get better and learn strategy instead of coming ot forums to whine.

 

Have you ever seen anyone deal 800K damage in a single warzone? SWTOR stops giving DPS medals after 300K...and we were all plenty well equipped. All of us have at least a couple of War Hero pieces and there was a Conquerer and Warlord in our group. But what can you do against a guy who can deal 800K in damage?

 

Even assuming that our strategy was terrible, it is unfathomable to me that a single player can dish out 800k in damage. That should not be possible, when the next best class that I've ever seen post 1.2 is right around 500k.

Edited May 10, 2012 by iheartnyc

[OmegaLantern]

I see what you're saying, but here's how these classes were marketed, by BioWare. Sorcs/Sages, good DPS and good Healing. Not much in the way of Defense, considering that they can only wear light armor and robes. Obviously, doesn't offer much protection. Also, kinda made to be stationary and out of the way.

 

Guardians/Juggernauts/Powertech/Vanguard - The BEST at Tanking due to heavy armor and reactive shields, and pretty good at DPS. No healing, and decent speed.

 

Shadows/Assassins - Pretty good at tanking, and quick stealthy DPS, and then disappears again. Good speed. I think they might be able to heal, but I am unsure, I have not played either of those classes.

 

Commando/Merc - Good tanking, good AOE DPS and goods AOE heals. moderate speed.

 

Scoundral/operative - Good healing, and good DPS.

 

Gunslinger/Sniper - I honestly haven't played these classes either, so I only really know that they are decent at ranged DPS.

 

Sents/Maras - The BEST at DPS. Great speed. The end. no healing, no tanking, almost no range, and no real defense to speak of once you have them pinned down. About tied with Sorcs, considering that Saber Ward has a 2 minute cooldown, whereas Static Barrier has 5 sec cooldown and can't be reapplied to a character for 20 secs. But still, 20 seconds>2 minutes

 

This is a case in which I am reminded of an old saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none. But almost always better than a master of one."

 

The sent and the mara are your masters of one, but it sounds like you stumbled across a guy who overcame the obstacles of only being a master of one.

 

So if you JUST want to do DPS, I guess you're going to have to roll a Sent/mara.

Edited May 10, 2012 by OmegaLantern
adding a line.

[KBSIP]

Sentinels and Marauders are MIRROR classes. mirror.

 

Your marauder, with equal skill and situation, is fully capable of matching the sentinel's 800k damage.

 

Damage numbers can be artificially inflated depending on the balance of healers/tanks on a team, with extra damage output being healed through pumping up an individual's numbers.

 

In all honesty, you can't cry nerf sentinels without nerfing marauders, they are the same class and don't even have anywhere near the mirror ability issues of other classes (vanguard DoT's not ticking properly, sorc/sage ability delay for the pub side).

 

End of the day, he was a better player than any of your marauders, and knew how to absolutely go to his very best in the situations he charged in to.

[FMLDestroyer]

A sentinel with biochem and a skilled pocket healer, not surprised.

 

As far as other classes capable of this...dps PT's. They routinely double the dmg of other ac's on my server. They've done 800k.

 

Also the 800k isn't possible unless you have good healers and a tank which I assume you do. If people die too fast with spawn times and runbacks 800k won't work. The fact that you guys have a competent team is providing them with the opportunity to put out crazy numbers. But you need more dps on his pocket. Find yourself an OP PT to pressure that healer.

 

And keep in mind this guy is really good. Sents/maras are OP, but only in the hands of highly skilled players, which doesn't really merit a nerf.

[Tiresias]

Have you ever seen anyone deal 800K damage in a single warzone? SWTOR stops giving DPS medals after 300K...and we were all plenty well equipped. All of us have at least a couple of War Hero pieces and there was a Conquerer and Warlord in our group. But what can you do against a guy who can deal 800K in damage?

 

Even assuming that our strategy was terrible, it is unfathomable to me that a single player can dish out 800k in damage. That should not be possible, when the next best class that I've ever seen post 1.2 is right around 500k.

 

I routinely post 800k damage on my Kinetic Shadow. It probably has something to do with me being preternaturally tough, typically receiving heals on top of my self-healing, and having a TON of AoE damage as a Kinetic.

 

This doesn't mean that I'm killing a lot of people. It means that I am alive and active throughout the entirety of a Warzone. I tend to post high protection and healing numbers as well, because that's what a Kinetic Shadow does. These high numbers don't translate into me healing my teammates or getting lots of kills, even though the scoreboard makes me look dramatically overpowered.

[iheartnyc]

http://khnm.addeus.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/45p84-Screenshot_2012-05-07_15_32_59_060900.jpg

 

From another thread...just brutal.

[KBSIP]

http://khnm.addeus.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/45p84-Screenshot_2012-05-07_15_32_59_060900.jpg

 

From another thread...just brutal.

 

that's what happens when you have 3 dedicated healers and a good team versus one dedicated healer and a pug. probably ended up chain-feeding the good side too

[Erevan_Kindelar]

It's getting a bit ridiculous. There's one guy on our server who is consistently getting 600-800k Damage per warzone. Now I'm sure skill has something to do with it, but considering that even the best players in other DPS classes rarely ever (if at all) get that high, shows that there is a massive unbalance.

 

And before people start dispensing with the "you're all bads" nonsense, we were rolling with War Heros and two of the best Imp guilds on our server. I was ranging between 200-500k Damage per WZ but it literally took 2 or 3 of us to take down 1 sentinel. Way way way overpowered.

 

So... one guy getting high damage (not even insanely high... the record is over 1 million damage iirc but I have no pics to prove it although there are people posting on the PvP forums about their damage epeen) equates to a need for a class nerf?

If your Marauder is not getting close to what this guy is putting out, then either this one guy is insanely good or your Mara is incompetent. Given that you are working with a small sample size, I cannot judge which, but it sounds to me like this one guy is head and shoulders above the rst, meaning he is probably wringing every last drop of DPS out of his character, and the rest of the Maras and Sents are about average.

 

Mara/Sent is a class that is incredibly difficult to master, but once it is mastered and well-geared it is both difficult to kill and capable of very high damage output. Sounds to me like you are QQing for a class nerf because you have encountered one supreme example of the class. The tragedy is that you are more likely to get the nerf you ask for, or some other random nerf, than Bioware are to grow a pair and say that the class is working as intended.

[iheartnyc]

So... one guy getting high damage (not even insanely high... the record is over 1 million damage iirc but I have no pics to prove it although there are people posting on the PvP forums about their damage epeen) equates to a need for a class nerf?

If your Marauder is not getting close to what this guy is putting out, then either this one guy is insanely good or your Mara is incompetent. Given that you are working with a small sample size, I cannot judge which, but it sounds to me like this one guy is head and shoulders above the rst, meaning he is probably wringing every last drop of DPS out of his character, and the rest of the Maras and Sents are about average.

 

Mara/Sent is a class that is incredibly difficult to master, but once it is mastered and well-geared it is both difficult to kill and capable of very high damage output. Sounds to me like you are QQing for a class nerf because you have encountered one supreme example of the class. The tragedy is that you are more likely to get the nerf you ask for, or some other random nerf, than Bioware are to grow a pair and say that the class is working as intended.

 

If you REALLY want, I can go around the various server forums and dig up the "500 Club" screen shot posts. From what I've see the vast majority of the screenshots are either Marauder/Sentinel, and ALL of the ones that are significantly over 500 that I've seen (e.g., in the 700K+ range) are Marauder/Sentinel. This is seriously "working as intended?"

 

What are you saying? It's just coincidence that these Sentinel/Marauders across these different servers just happen to have also teamed up with the best healers? Why does this not happen with the same frequency then as Sorcs or Operatives?

 

The simple fact of the matter is, if the opposing team has say 4 sentinels or marauders and they are good at focusing, your team is pretty much screwed. With 4 sentinels hitting you at once you will last maybe 1 second.

Edited May 10, 2012 by iheartnyc

[Girltank]

I am seriously thinking of dropping my toon that I've had since December and rerolling a Marauder. But with our crappy luck, they will nerf the Marauder and buff Snipers or something.

 

more likely you'll realize how to play against them and that they are not as uber as people claim.

 

In the hands of a good player they are effective but they have many weaknesses.

 

800K damage I wouldn't contribute to the sent entirely. I'd give it to the healers (yours and his).

 

If he or his enemies were dying he'd have way less overall damage.

 

800K damage seems to me like it would require a couple things:

 

1) an excellent opposing team, capable of taking massive damage but lingering to fight on.

 

2) an excellent team capable of surviving and aiding in keeping the 800Ker up and in the fight.

 

3) A DPSer that seeks to maximize damage in lue of accomplishing objectives. *IE: using personal dps buffs in favor of utility buffs, making sure massive aoe crits always hit multiple opponents despite more objective base uses for it (assuming focus build), attacking when evading would benefit the team more.

 

4) A consistantly small amount of aggression from the opposing team directed towards the 800ker. (most likely the opposing team is spending their time trying to kill the healer and failing instead of attacking the 800Ker with slows, pushes, stuns and pins that'd cripple his damage.

[MMOgamer]

Screenshots or it didn't happen.

[iheartnyc]

Screenshots or it didn't happen.

 

http://khnm.addeus.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/45p84-Screenshot_2012-05-07_15_32_59_060900.jpg

 

That's just a random screenshot I found on the "PVP Food Chain" thread on this same page.

 

A random sampling across different servers I think would show that the best DPS calss BY FAR is the Sentinel/Marauder. As you can see in that screenshot, nothing even comes close.

 

Even the "good" players who get 400/500k damage in a warzone look like scrubs compared to people who can dish out 700-900k damage.

Edited May 10, 2012 by iheartnyc

[MMOgamer]

http://khnm.addeus.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/45p84-Screenshot_2012-05-07_15_32_59_060900.jpg

 

That's just a random screenshot I found on the "PVP Food Chain" thread on this same page.

 

A random sampling across different servers I think would show that the best DPS calss BY FAR is the Sentinel/Marauder. As you can see in that screenshot, nothing even comes close.

 

Even the "good" players who get 400/500k damage in a warzone look like scrubs compared to people who can dish out 700-900k damage.

 

Long drawn out match (look at the objective points and the final score). He died twice meaning he was alive for 99% of the full match. His healers basically healed for close to 1.5 million (!). Someone also left the match meaning they were also fighting 8-7 at one point and were clearly playing against scrubs. Best case scenario wz SS don't mean crap.

 

Also please post your own screenshots of this guy "consistently" hitting 600-800k. Not some random SS you found on the forum that shows an absolute best case scenario in voidstar.

Edited May 10, 2012 by MMOgamer

[Tatebomb]

http://khnm.addeus.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/45p84-Screenshot_2012-05-07_15_32_59_060900.jpg

 

That's just a random screenshot I found on the "PVP Food Chain" thread on this same page.

 

A random sampling across different servers I think would show that the best DPS calss BY FAR is the Sentinel/Marauder. As you can see in that screenshot, nothing even comes close.

 

Even the "good" players who get 400/500k damage in a warzone look like scrubs compared to people who can dish out 700-900k damage.

 

Dude had some awesome heals there.

[criminalheretic]

Really? How common is it to see someone break 800K damage in a single warzone? The fact that some guy can do it with any given regularity is I think de facto evidence that the class is overpowered. I would love to see any player in any class get that much damage.

 

Actually the fact that it is a single person to whom you are referring, works in contradiction to any class specific evidence.

[iheartnyc]

Long drawn out match (look at the objective points and the final score). He died twice meaning he was alive for 99% of the full match. His healers basically healed for close to 1.5 million (!). Someone also left the match meaning they were also fighting 8-7 at one point and were clearly playing against scrubs. Best case scenario wz SS don't mean crap.

 

Also please post your own screenshots of this guy "consistently" hitting 600-800k. Not some random SS you found on the forum that shows an absolute best case scenario in voidstar.

 

No, half the losing team had over 200k damage and 2 of them had around 400k...not your typical "scrub" team filled with "bads." And the score was only 2-0, meaning the two teams, at least objectives wise, were fairly evenly matched.

 

My analysis of the game is that they just could not get past this 1 guy, that he was the key. He was likely everywhere, followed by his healers, killing everything. On defense, the other team did admirable in preventing a full on faceroll, despite getting dealt 800k damage from 1 single player.

[criminalheretic]

http://khnm.addeus.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/45p84-Screenshot_2012-05-07_15_32_59_060900.jpg

 

That's just a random screenshot I found on the "PVP Food Chain" thread on this same page.

 

A random sampling across different servers I think would show that the best DPS calss BY FAR is the Sentinel/Marauder. As you can see in that screenshot, nothing even comes close.

 

Even the "good" players who get 400/500k damage in a warzone look like scrubs compared to people who can dish out 700-900k damage.

 

Yeah you lost objectivity with "A random sampling across different servers I think would show..."

 

But hey if it's screenshots we're after, I will be sure to paste every screenshot I have showing PTs as usually the top 3 DPS in any given WZ.

[LiveandDieinLA]

http://i.imgur.com/MbMhu.jpg

 

screen of my vanguard buddy doing 720k+

 

Look vanguards are the best dps class BY FAR.

 

lolz

[iheartnyc]

Sigh...this is going to be time consuming, but I will post screenshots of dominating Sentinals/Marauders in a new thread on this forum within an hour.

[Schwasted]

It's getting a bit ridiculous. There's one guy on our server who is consistently getting 600-800k Damage per warzone. Now I'm sure skill has something to do with it, but considering that even the best players in other DPS classes rarely ever (if at all) get that high, shows that there is a massive unbalance.

 

And before people start dispensing with the "you're all bads" nonsense, we were rolling with War Heros and two of the best Imp guilds on our server. I was ranging between 200-500k Damage per WZ but it literally took 2 or 3 of us to take down 1 sentinel. Way way way overpowered.

Just be happy you have republic left on your server to play.

[LiveandDieinLA]

No, half the losing team had over 200k damage and 2 of them had around 400k...not your typical "scrub" team filled with "bads." And the score was only 2-0, meaning the two teams, at least objectives wise, were fairly evenly matched.

 

My analysis of the game is that they just could not get past this 1 guy, that he was the key. He was likely everywhere, followed by his healers, killing everything. On defense, the other team did admirable in preventing a full on faceroll, despite getting dealt 800k damage from 1 single player.

 

Your analysis? You found this SS on a different thread! Your "analysis" means precisely ****.