Best 10 seconds of damage on the PvP Dummy...Any Spec!!!

[Spungey]

So, I was doing a bit of testing earlier trying to figure out burst response with Watchman and Combat. Haven't started out on focus but it brought about an idea to me.

 

Basically, what I would like to put together with this thread is how much damage you can put out in 10 seconds. Now I use the ACT parser which gives a detailed log of the damage you've done over a period of time. Also, if you look down at the timeline it will show you the average damage you did over that given 10 seconds.

 

With all this I would like to see some Screen Shots of the Sentinel player base showing what there average damage was over a 10 seconds span of time. Not sure if there are any other Parsers out at the moment that give the information like ACT does.

 

Now, I have played all 3 specs in pvp and I favor Watchman over the other 2. I did however parse Watchman and Combat to see what each spec has to offer. For the record, I am better with the Watchman spec over Combat but I don't consider myself a Combat noob.

 

Buffs used: Force Might and Force Valor

No adrenals/relics/inspiration was used during the parses.

I have 1105 Expertise

Both parses done in same gear and on the Combat Training Dummy

 

Combat: http://i.imgur.com/eeV5l.jpg[/img]"]http://i.imgur.com/eeV5l.jpg

2182 dps average of 10 seconds which would be 21820 damage in that span of 10 seconds.

 

Watchman: http://i.imgur.com/sciuI.jpg[/img]"]http://i.imgur.com/sciuI.jpg

2521 dps average of 10 seconds which would be 25210 damage in that span of 10 seconds.

 

So for me and my testing, Watchman shows to have the higher burst potential between these 2. Maybe it's my gear setup. Again, I know Watchman more than Combat and Focus.

 

So for the Combat and Focus spec'd Sentinels out there. Show me your best 10 seconds with Screen Shots with pvp gear on the pvp dummy. No relics/adrenals/inspiration please. It's time to get hard data on the burst potential of all 3 spec's.

 

*NOTICE: The line that shows "All Outgoing" should be ignored if you are using ACT Parser. It takes the amount of damage you have done and doubles it. Please do not refer to this line as your dps because that is a false reading. The line for using this Parser for accurate data is "DAMAGE DONE".*

[Spungey]

Wow..surprised nobody has given any data on this. Thought those Combat Spec fanboy's would be all over it. facts are facts though.

[Hizoka]

Wow..surprised nobody has given any data on this. Thought those Combat Spec fanboy's would be all over it. facts are facts though.

everyone ignores it because "10 seconds" doesn't tell you squat. This thread is nothing but a bad player trying to flex his limp e-peen.

[Spungey]

like that's never been said by you before. please dude.

 

Bad player, hardly. I prove it time and time again in pve and pvp.

 

All I was showing is DATA on the 2 spec's asking for others to put up there best 10 seconds. if 25k+ damage in 10 seconds is a bad player then by all means lets see yours. but I don't expect much from you because I've seen some of your post.

 

and idk if you read it right, but 10 seconds does tell A LOT about the burst potential of a spec. Since most PvP encounters average that time.

 

so here..let me help ya..

 

YOUR TROLL POST GOES

 

D

O

W

N

 

H

E

R

E

 

since that's all your name stands for on swtor Forums. Facts are Facts

[sollinton]

Actually Hizoka has a very valid point. The only time a 10 second parse would be useful information is in 1v1 PvP. In Flashpoints, Operations, and anything greater than 1v1 PvP no one cares about what would happen if you had all your CDs up and did burst for 10 seconds (Yes that's right; in PvP if you are going up against any competent players, especially if they have a healer with them, the fight is going to last longer than 10 seconds).

 

Anyone can do massive damage over a very short period of time, there is nothing at all impressive about that. True skill is shown over long periods of time. This is because as a fight goes on you have more opportunities to make mistakes. Also, doing big numbers on a training dummy shows next to nothing about your skill. When you are standing in one place staring at your actionbars anyone can do big numbers. True skill shows during high-mechanic boss fights and/or evenly matched PvP encounters.

 

Your damage over 10 seconds relies on nothing more than gear and class. Skill has absolutely no impact here. If you screw up your priority rotation after just 10 seconds (that's 6-9 abilities) then there is something seriously wrong with you.

 

This thread is fine for determining which spec is the best at ganking players in PvP, but otherwise there is no point to this discussion.

Edited May 11, 2012 by sollinton

[Ainianu]

picking the best 10 seconds of a long parse means very little, given watchman spec builds up over a long time, like merciless slash for example, dots and juyo stacks. It is not a 'burst' if you have to spend minutes building up first.

 

Also your combat spec parse seems rather low, assuming you was wearing same gear for both.

 

My own parses (full war hero gear) showed on 10min parses to get watchman around 1650 ish, and combat 1750 ish. (pvp training dummy on my own ship with no lag)

 

That your combat spec parse was only 1466 and your watchman spec parse shows similar to mine makes me think you may be doing something wrong when playing combat, or suffering from lag, which i find effects combat (blade rush) more so than it does watchman.

 

If you want to do a true 10 sec burst parse.

start the parse from your first hit.. end after 10 seconds. Repeat as many times as you want to get a good average with both specs (or all 3 if you want to include focus). If you want advice on good ways to 'burst' with combat or focus spec can ask on these forums.

[ProfessorWalsh]

On mine, granted I am undergeared still...

 

On watchmen spec, starting cold, same as with combat spec:

 

Watchmen 1298 DPS

 

Combat 1467 DPS

 

I'm getting about 150-200 more DPS with Combat than with Watchmen starting "cold" if, however, I let Watchmen warm up and simply take the best 10 seconds available Watchmen pulls ahead. If, however, I assume that my enemy is smart and is cleansing DoTs off, then Watchmen DPS crashes and Combat pulls out miles ahead.

 

Trying to figure out any actual numbers is very hard because there are tons of variables that we can't really take into account.

Edited May 11, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Spungey]

Actually Hizoka has a very valid point. The only time a 10 second parse would be useful information is in 1v1 PvP. In Flashpoints, Operations, and anything greater than 1v1 PvP no one cares about what would happen if you had all your CDs up and did burst for 10 seconds (Yes that's right; in PvP if you are going up against any competent players, especially if they have a healer with them, the fight is going to last longer than 10 seconds).

 

Anyone can do massive damage over a very short period of time, there is nothing at all impressive about that. True skill is shown over long periods of time. This is because as a fight goes on you have more opportunities to make mistakes. Also, doing big numbers on a training dummy shows next to nothing about your skill. When you are standing in one place staring at your actionbars anyone can do big numbers. True skill shows during high-mechanic boss fights and/or evenly matched PvP encounters.

 

Your damage over 10 seconds relies on nothing more than gear and class. Skill has absolutely no impact here. If you screw up your priority rotation after just 10 seconds (that's 6-9 abilities) then there is something seriously wrong with you.

 

This thread is fine for determining which spec is the best at ganking players in PvP, but otherwise there is no point to this discussion.

 

umm..did you not read this was about pvp.. do you not do enough wz's to realize burst is used in a 1v1 situation, a 2v1 situation and gank vs 1. it doesn't matter. The amount you put out in that first 10 seconds is all that matters

[Spungey]

the funny thing is, the 10 second damage I got was with the first 11 seconds. Did u happen to read each parse and look over there.

 

But you can go to the Combat Dummy and prove me wrong. That combat has more burst potential if you would like. Numerous times during the watchman 6 min parse I surpassed Combat's best 10 seconds over the entire parse.

 

Do i need to link more Screen Shots. Other people are linking the data to. Combat is inferior in so many ways.

[Quor]

As much as I love Watchman, I find it hard to believe that a properly played Combat does less damage in a given 10 seconds.

 

Give me full focus, Zen and the Precision Slash buff and I'll probably break 2k DPS in a ten second period, depending on how crits go.

 

And that's the thing; Watchman is high, steady dps in pvp. You apply a lot of pressure with the chance for good burst (Merc Slash + Dispatch timed with Zen DoTs). Combat has decent over-time damage, but amazing burst every fifteen seconds with timed used of skills and PS. PS + Zen'd Blade Rush = 4 armor-ignoring normal attacks + 4 armor ignoring Ataru procs. PS + Master Strike + Combat Focus Blade Storm means around 8kish damage if everything hits (i.e. you do it when at full resolve). In short, playing Combat effectively revolves around strategic pooling of focus in order to ensure you have the most damage possible packed into the Precision buff.

 

So taking a very short period of time (in this case, 10s) doesn't really account for the strengths and weaknesses of each spec, or prove anything of value. It just shows that, for what you did in the conditions you did it in, Watchman provides higher dps than Combat. As for how that plays out in an actual pvp scenario, I'd say it's far different. Assuming best case scenario, Combat will likely be ahead by a large margin. Assuming worst case, Watchman will be stronger.

 

If you want to have a "ten second" test that shows something, I would recommend redoing your tests over the course of a pair of conditions.

 

First condition, the "cold" start. No focus built up, you start from a Leap and do the highest damage you can in ten seconds.

 

Second condition, the "hot" start. You start with a full focus bar (and full Juyo stacks/Centering) and then unload the highest damage you can in ten seconds, utilizing the buffs of each spec appropriately (so Zen DoTs for WM, one of the above combos for Combat).

 

I would also suggest, if you take this approach, to do a 4.5s test, since three globals tends to be about the time it takes for someone to react and either A.) use a defensive CD, or B.) get healed. Perform this test under both hot and cold conditions above. My suspicion is that for the 4.5 burst test, WM and Combat will probably be quite similar. Sadly, the results would be skewed down in terms of damage, since you can never Dispatch the training dummy, and so what you would get would not be as true a view of the damage as you could get.

 

Edit: it's also important to note that this is single target damage. Yes, Focus will obviously do insane damage to clumped groups of enemies, but sometimes that's what wins games, and so it's not wise to discount the damage it could do just because Focus underperforms on a single target damage parse. As great as the damage of WM and Combat may be, nothing will destroy a tank who's guarding a target like a Singularity Smash. At worst, you're looking at pumping ~7500 damage into that tank in a single global, assuming he and the guard target are both within range of your Sweep.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Quor

[Huggsnotdruggs]

Actually Hizoka has a very valid point. The only time a 10 second parse would be useful information is in 1v1 PvP. In Flashpoints, Operations, and anything greater than 1v1 PvP no one cares about what would happen if you had all your CDs up and did burst for 10 seconds (Yes that's right; in PvP if you are going up against any competent players, especially if they have a healer with them, the fight is going to last longer than 10 seconds).

BLAH BLAH BAH this discussion.

 

Who on earth said post's have to be relevant to your views? the title says it all. best 10 second parse. think its pointless? Dont read it and better yet, dont reply

 

Edit: I know that was near the begining of the topic, that just drives me nuts.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Huggsnotdruggs

[IronFirewind]

The fanboys do make me laugh. We have two great specs for PvP now. Combat gives you better group utility (due to roots and it's burst not being tied to Zen so Inspiration and Transcendence can be used much more often) while Watchman gives you better interrupts, more survivability and better sustained damage (Self heals add up FAST over time and your DoTs keep ticking whether you're 1m or 100m away from the target).

 

Out of curiosity, what gear were you using? Combat benefits more from prioritising Main and Off-hand Weapon Damage while Watchman benefits a lot more from prioritising Power (Since it boosts both the DoTs and Merciless Slash). Both specs obviously benefit from Accuracy, Crit and Surge, and Expertise in PvP. If you are geared more towards maxing out Watchman damage than that may well explain why your Watchman parse came out on top.

 

Also the hot and cold start stuff is irrelevant. In PvP it's rare you will be in the perfect position to pull off a perfect burst combination without something happening. There's also a ton of other variables out there that effect PvP fights.

 

That said taking the best 10 second periods on a stationary target meant to be beaten also doesn't give a ton of the best data for the above reason. There's too many variables to track in PvP to really say one is better than the other from purely parse data.

 

For example:

What if your DoTs get cleansed?

What if you get hit by Whirlwind for the full 8 seconds?

What if you get CC'd in geenral?

What if you get Acc debuffed?

What if the target pops defensive CDs?

What if the other guy pops adrenals?

What if you get an Inspiration buff?

What if the other guy gets a Predation buff?

What if you get interrupted in some way?

What if you spend a lot of time off target?

What if one of you is pulled off target?

 

There's plenty more but we'd be here all night working out every single variable for PvP encounters.

 

Also does Precision Slash work properly on the Dummies? I'm not 100% sure as to what armour value they have (if any).

[ProfessorWalsh]

Also does Precision Slash work properly on the Dummies? I'm not 100% sure as to what armour value they have (if any).

 

No, it doesn't. Precision Slash doesn't affect the damage mitigation of the dummies at all from what I can tell.

[Spungey]

Okay..I'm gonna do this again..And im gonna take numerous Screen Shots. And you can all look at it.

 

Other people out there have the means to download a parser. You can d/l ACT, MOX and others... You have the ability to prove me wrong. So please do it.

 

Show me a parse log from someone who is a die hard Combat fanatic. And prove me wrong.. 25120 damage in 10 seconds.

 

And yes Precision Slash's debuff does have an effect on the dummy. Thats why my last hit was hitting for over 5k. In watchman it wasn't.

[Spungey]

and another reason Precision slash's debuff works is because without the debuff my Blade Storm crit was 2.6k, with the debuff it was 4.2k

[ProfessorWalsh]

and another reason Precision slash's debuff works is because without the debuff my Blade Storm crit was 2.6k, with the debuff it was 4.2k

 

You do know that 4.2k is in the normal range for Bladestorm without the debuff. Seriously, look at the debuff carefully. It has never worked properly on the dummies because some of their "mitigation" doesn't come from armor. The devs even commented on that when Gunslingers and Assassins were crying about it too.

 

While I am not running around in full War Hero armor all of my own tests are showing Combat coming out on top by a very very narrow margin over my same performance as a Watchmen Sentinel.

 

The other side of this is itemization. Combat actually uses different stats than Watchmen does (yes, hard to believe I know) as Combat seems to benefit much more from Strength than other Sentinel specs. This has led people to doing things with their mods to maximize strength.

 

May I ask what your strength is currently in relation to your endurance and may I ask which trinkets you are using specifically?

Edited May 12, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Spungey]

http://i.imgur.com/LV2g6.jpg[/img]"]http://http://i.imgur.com/LV2g6.jpg

but I do however have the force valor buff so..its around 1580.

 

The only War Hero pieces I need are 1 Implant, belt, bracers, off hand, chest. oh, and 2 relics. which i will probably just use 1.

 

I'll never lose to a combat spec sentinel and if the player has a little bit of knowledge on how to play Watchman he will never lose to a Combat Sentinel. It might be my server, but there are probably 2 or 3 sent/mara that spec combat/carnage and they do nothing. Maybe there playing it wrong. idk

 

but again, i'm waiting for a SS of a Combat Spec'd sentinel doing 25k damage in 10 seconds.

 

the only way Combat spec will ever trump Watchman is when they armor negate burns.

 

Leap -> OVLS -> Zealous ->Merc Slash -> Cauterize -> Master Strike -> Dispatch ='s Game Over

 

The myth where it takes Watchman to build up its damage is laughable. I've got cauterize (650 damage per tic) and 3 stacks (2k+ per tic) of OVLS rolling. Plus the Merc Slash. Plus the Master Strike damage.. The range on Master Strike is ridiculous. Who cares about a root. Inflammation gives me plenty of time to get it off.

[Ainianu]

I'll never lose to a combat spec sentinel and if the player has a little bit of knowledge on how to play Watchman he will never lose to a Combat Sentinel. It might be my server, but there are probably 2 or 3 sent/mara that spec combat/carnage and they do nothing. Maybe there playing it wrong. idk

 

In general most combat spec 'players' do actually suck. It is a harder to spec to play well. I find that a skilled player will do well in any of the 3 spec's but a bad player will be unable to perform in combat or focus, yet still perform reasonably in watchman.

 

And yes Watchman is the best spec of the 3 for 1v1 situations/duels if that is important to you. That should be blatantly obvious from its healing tbh.

[ProfessorWalsh]

the only way Combat spec will ever trump Watchman is when they armor negate burns.

 

Or if your enemy is cleansing off your burns so they can't sit there. That can really drag down Watchmen damage.

 

For me, my Watchmen damage is lower than my Combat damage, and no, I can't hit 25k in 10 seconds. I can't do that in Watchmen either. What I can do is deal a ton of damage to people and kill them.

 

Your case only makes me think, if anything, Watchman needs a slight nerf to it's attacks, nothing more. I still find Combat superior.

 

Much harder to play mind you, but superior.

 

Edit:

To add: Also, I find the massive spike in damage I can get off of a precision...

 

Wait a second...

 

...

 

You used "Blade Storm" while precision was active in a 10 second test?

 

You shouldn't do that.

 

...

 

The high damage rotation for Combat from a cold start is:

 

Leap -> Zealous Strike -> Blade Rush -> Blade Storm -> Precision -> Master Strike

 

If you do Precision before Blade Rush it runs out before the final (big) hit on Master Strike...

 

Were you also using "Zen" in your Watchmen tests in order to get to your 25k? If so then you didn't do a fair test...

 

When Zen is in effect a Sentinel should do Precision followed by Blade Rush, Blade Storm, Blade Rush, Blade Rush, Blade Rush...

 

Because Ataru form Zen lowers the GCD of Blade Rush it allows you to pour in 5 Blade Rushes and a Blade Storm in the 6 seconds it is active...

Edited May 13, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[ProfessorWalsh]

Spungy - I can show you how a Combat Sentinel can break 25k in 10 seconds.

 

Considering how undergeared I am I just hit 21734 in 10 seconds.

 

Open with:

 

Do the following:

Start at full, or near full, Focus

Valorous Call

Zen

0.0 Seconds: Precision

1.5 Seconds: Blade Rush

2.5 Seconds: Blade Storm

4.0 Seconds: Blade Rush

5.0 Seconds: Blade Rush

6.0 Seconds: Blade Rush

7.0 Seconds: Zealous Strike

8.5 Seconds: Blade Rush

9.5 Seconds: Blade Rush

 

Note: I broke 21k without relics or adrenals and I am far blow you in gear. The only thing that makes this possible is that Zen for Ataru form lowers the GCD of Blade Rush btw.

[Spungey]

Or if your enemy is cleansing off your burns so they can't sit there. That can really drag down Watchmen damage.

 

For me, my Watchmen damage is lower than my Combat damage, and no, I can't hit 25k in 10 seconds. I can't do that in Watchmen either. What I can do is deal a ton of damage to people and kill them.

 

Your case only makes me think, if anything, Watchman needs a slight nerf to it's attacks, nothing more. I still find Combat superior.

 

Much harder to play mind you, but superior.

 

Edit:

To add: Also, I find the massive spike in damage I can get off of a precision...

 

Wait a second...

 

...

 

You used "Blade Storm" while precision was active in a 10 second test?

 

You shouldn't do that.

 

...

 

The high damage rotation for Combat from a cold start is:

 

Leap -> Zealous Strike -> Blade Rush -> Blade Storm -> Precision -> Master Strike

 

If you do Precision before Blade Rush it runs out before the final (big) hit on Master Strike...

 

Were you also using "Zen" in your Watchmen tests in order to get to your 25k? If so then you didn't do a fair test...

 

When Zen is in effect a Sentinel should do Precision followed by Blade Rush, Blade Storm, Blade Rush, Blade Rush, Blade Rush...

 

Because Ataru form Zen lowers the GCD of Blade Rush it allows you to pour in 5 Blade Rushes and a Blade Storm in the 6 seconds it is active...

 

i know the combat spec. and i used zen in both specs.

 

why would you not use blade storm while precision is active?

 

Assuming blade rush buff is active..

 

Precision -> Master Strike -> Blade Storm. Is alot of damage, and given MS is a 3 second channel, you gcd will be up for a follow up Blade Storm right after the last tic of Master Strike.

 

Come on now, its that simple. I'm not a combat pro, but really...wow

[Spungey]

Spungy - I can show you how a Combat Sentinel can break 25k in 10 seconds.

 

Considering how undergeared I am I just hit 21734 in 10 seconds.

 

Open with:

 

Do the following:

Start at full, or near full, Focus

Valorous Call

Zen

0.0 Seconds: Precision

1.5 Seconds: Blade Rush

2.5 Seconds: Blade Storm

4.0 Seconds: Blade Rush

5.0 Seconds: Blade Rush

6.0 Seconds: Blade Rush

7.0 Seconds: Zealous Strike

8.5 Seconds: Blade Rush

9.5 Seconds: Blade Rush

 

Note: I broke 21k without relics or adrenals and I am far blow you in gear. The only thing that makes this possible is that Zen for Ataru form lowers the GCD of Blade Rush btw.

 

Okay, link the SS..thats all. Its not 25k. I did 21.8k in Combat Spec and again I'm not a Combat Spec pro.

 

In a Latency free world you could get those attacks off in 10 seconds, but lets face it..Not gonna happen.

 

The only thing I've asked for is a Combat Spec fanboy to link a parse showing the Burst that combat has. Still nobody has done it. I don't want theoretical numbers. I want to see a SS from a Sentinel who plays Combat to post there best 10 seconds.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Okay, link the SS..thats all. Its not 25k. I did 21.8k in Combat Spec and again I'm not a Combat Spec pro.

 

In a Latency free world you could get those attacks off in 10 seconds, but lets face it..Not gonna happen.

 

The only thing I've asked for is a Combat Spec fanboy to link a parse showing the Burst that combat has. Still nobody has done it. I don't want theoretical numbers. I want to see a SS from a Sentinel who plays Combat to post there best 10 seconds.

 

I have already told you that I am not well geared enough to match your stats and as such won't be able to reach your outputs. What I did do was pass my best Watchmen attempt by over 30%.

 

Precision -> Master Strike -> Blade Storm. Is alot of damage, and given MS is a 3 second channel, you gcd will be up for a follow up Blade Storm right after the last tic of Master Strike.

 

Here is why:

 

You never use Blade Storm unless Combat Trance is up which is never up unless you scored an ataru strike. It is possible that your buff was up, I didn't look.

 

The most efficient use of the "Combat Cycle" is to never use Master Strike if you are using Zen.

 

Also, you cannot use the fallacy argument of "You couldn't do that in a real fight." because that was never part of the equation and it totally is possible. The argument was "what has the highest 10 second burst" and the highest possible 10 second burst is the Blade Rush/Zen combination which goes leaps and bounds above anything Watchmen can do.

 

I'm not well enough geared to accurately test against your numbers, and I don't use automated parsers, I manually parse my own data.

 

If you'd like, however, I can post the log for you.

 

Hold on, let me take a new set of logs and I'll post them.

 

Though, I admit, I don't understand why you are so hot to trot to make Watchmen look superior to Combat. This isn't a wizzing contest here and I don't get why you feel threatened by the fact that Watchmen may not be the hands down best possible spec in the game for a Sentinel.

Edited May 13, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[thepilk]

According to the devs, all Sentinel/Mauarder damage tests on dummies are flawed right now because dummies have no defensive stats so you could have 1% accuracy and still never miss a single attack/offhand. Right now ALL damage is showing higher than it should because we cant miss.

[ProfessorWalsh]

According to the devs, all Sentinel/Mauarder damage tests on dummies are flawed right now because dummies have no defensive stats so you could have 1% accuracy and still never miss a single attack/offhand. Right now ALL damage is showing higher than it should because we cant miss.

 

You can indeed miss. I missed earlier in several of my tests.