Subs down 25%

[JeramieCrowe]

Group finder should have been shiped you rite about that but its not going to save this game alone.

Ranked warzones (Arenas) scheduled events to go along with the random ones a clear reward system meaning no random bags, chests,boxes, whatever you want to call them. A guild that can have a bank with just the minimum that was needed to create it. I blame EA for the beta that we got instead of a real launch but bioware needs to move forward regardless. Faction pride is non existent in this game at all for what I can see it needs to be there.

The legacy system is a great idea but it hurts faction pride the way it is at the moment some changes need to be made. I see the scheduled maintenance was postponed I hope that means they have a card yet to play who knows. Well I said my pease on this matter. @ bioware Good Luck!

 

Upon what precedent, when TOR launched, should an LFG tool been "shipped at launch"? Because TERA is about to launch with the FIRST LFG tool IN THE HISTORY OF MMOs.

 

So, what's the precedent? Did not TOR create enough of its own precedents?

[mothermonterr]

Same-day postponement. Instead it will likely be next-day fix. INCREDIBLY faster than any other developer in history.

 

That's a bad thing? I'm sorry, I tend to be Sheldon Cooper when it comes to internet humor and sarcasm. Please, tell me you're joking...

 

Next week is more like it.

[FadenFaste]

I'm in exactly the same boat. And I agree with a lot of what you say.

 

However, since it's EA/BioWare that made the "casual" statement, we have to take into consideration what THEIR definition is. And we have that available, from Damion Schubert, himself, right here.

 

Enjoy the reading. It's quite telling, actually.

 

Interesting read.

 

Schubert is fuzzy on his definitions, but his main point seems to be that hardcore players make a deep and long-term commitment to a game. By that definition--the one that counts from a revenue-stream standpoint--I'm hardcore even if I only get to play ten hours a week, because I'll commit deeply to one game, and keep my subscription active for years. For EA/BW and their shareholders, that is the kind of hardcore that counts.

 

Casual/hardcore isn't determined by how many hours you play in a week, it's determined by how many months you keep playing...and paying.

[ScrollTroll]

EA just released their earnings and Star Wars subs are down 25% for the quarter. This can't be a good thing. Can we get server mergers ASAP?

 

Added link

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-sales-beat-targets-star-wars-takes-hit-2012-05-07?siteid=yhoof2

 

Activision paid out the first ever dividend in 2010 of .49 cents a share. A gaming industry first. Now that is a good thing. The three tier business module that EA is using is share holders employees and clients treated equally which is in this case equally bad.

Edited May 9, 2012 by ScrollTroll

[Unruhe]

Well, here's the thing: Say the HERO engine is broken. One can argue that BioWare has so extensively modified the engine, anyway, that one cannot POSSIBLY blame the engine, itself, for TOR's fallacies.

 

On the other hand, one can claim that the engine's fallacies are so fundamental, that it's not TOR's fault it sucks. After all, it wasn't, necessarily, up to the devs to choose the engine, just up to them to pull a rabbit out their hat and make it work.

 

Which are you?

 

I'm neither, and it really could go either way, so let's not put words in my mouth when I didn't disparage the engine in the first place. I'm just calling you on "Many MMOs use the HERO engine" when, in fact, there is only one game (Old Republic) that is currently in a "ship/release" state that still has the servers running, and only one other game was "released" before that, and it's already closed down (which may or may not have anything to do with the engine, I didn't research the game in detail)

[JeramieCrowe]

...except that you're not comparing apples with apples when EA state that the game would be 'very profitable' with over a million subscribers; when in fact the current number of 'active subscriptions' includes a large proportion of trial accounts and players using the month's free gametime (which by SHEER COINCIDENCE was handed out immediately prior to the quarterly report).

 

And who's to say that the statement that TOR is "very profitable" has anything to do with "1.3 million"?

[JeramieCrowe]

I'm neither, and it really could go either way, so let's not put words in my mouth when I didn't disparage the engine in the first place. I'm just calling you on "Many MMOs use the HERO engine" when, in fact, there is only one game (Old Republic) that is currently in a "ship/release" state that still has the servers running, and only one other game was "released" before that, and it's already closed down (which may or may not have anything to do with the engine, I didn't research the game in detail)

 

Well, okay. I made that statement without checking first, but I thought for sure that LotRO used it, too, as well as several non-AAA MMOs... I'll double-check.

[JeramieCrowe]

Next week is more like it.

 

If it is next week, that would be atypical to their usual turn-around time. A simple perusal of their Patch Notes timeline confirms their quick reaction to patches. Every single date is there.

[mothermonterr]

If it is next week, that would be atypical to their usual turn-around time. A simple perusal of their Patch Notes timeline confirms their quick reaction to patches. Every single date is there.

 

Lying to customers they will fix it tonight and move it and not give a specific time. (rateds???). That's typical.

[Squatdog_nz]

And who's to say that the statement that TOR is "very profitable" has anything to do with "1.3 million"?

 

Because EA apparently stated that 500k subscriptions would be viable and a million would be very profitable, the problem being that a large number of the so-called 'active subscriptions' listed in the quarterly report AREN'T paying subscribers.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Squatdog_nz

[JeramieCrowe]

Lying to customers they will fix it tonight and move it and not give a specific time. (rateds???). That's typical.

 

Heh, nice dodge and hyperbole. Next!

[Skirata_Kal]

Lying to customers they will fix it tonight and move it and not give a specific time. (rateds???). That's typical.

 

Now don't you think that's a touch over the top? Things come up. Maybe they found a glitch that would make things worse in which case I'm glad they delayed. As a dev myself (Billing Software not MMO's lol), I can easily imagine some things that would justify the delay.

[JeramieCrowe]

Because EA apparently stated that 500k subscriptions would be viable and a million would be very profitable, the problem being that a large number of the so-called 'active subscriptions' listed in the quarterly report AREN'T paying subscribers.

 

You cannot say that definitively any more than I can definitively say they are. Next quarter will tell for sure.

 

What I do know is the pattern of EA's previous conference calls over several years. They do not misrepresent trends. To do so would have been the end of the company a decade ago.

[mothermonterr]

Now don't you think that's a touch over the top? Things come up. Maybe they found a glitch that would make things worse in which case I'm glad they delayed. As a dev myself (Billing Software not MMO's lol), I can easily imagine some things that would justify the delay.

 

No because inflating sub numbers with free 30 days was just pathetic. There are servers that dont feel this artificial 1.3 million

[JeramieCrowe]

No because inflating sub numbers with free 30 days was just pathetic. There are servers that dont feel this artificial 1.3 million

 

My server, which is 20th, sure does. Try to encompass the whole picture instead of just one server, eh?

[mothermonterr]

My server, which is 20th, sure does. Try to encompass the whole picture instead of just one server, eh?

 

you're picturing just 1 server, you're "20th" server. l0l and it's not just a person from 1 server complaining about population. Clueless much.

[JeramieCrowe]

you're picturing just 1 server, you're "20th" server. l0l and it's not just a person from 1 server complaining about population. Clueless much.

 

/facepalm "20th" being the keyword, here....

 

/handhold

[Haeso]

If you don't think that the AVERAGE income for an F2P game is close to $28 per month for even fluff item games, you have your head in places it ought not be.

 

There are players that spend next to nothing. Then, there are players that buy EVERYTHING. Thus the definition of the word AVERAGE.

 

Still, with sub-based games, you get EVERYTHING for $15/month.

 

 

 

They'll make more than what they would from subs in the store. The whole "free" think is a charade, and suckers like you fall for it.

 

That's the quote you agreed to. Either you were agreeing with your head up somewhere it ought naught be - or you were endorsing his message which is "It's not free because you end up paying more."

 

Which is a load of grade A horse manure. Only poorly made cash grabs labeled as games are pay to win - that's not what we're talking about here. You can fully experience a solid F2P game without paying a cent - that's the benchmark, the key to F2P is two things: Total Subscribers and Retention rate. The more subs, the more people buying things, the longer they sub the more likely they are to buy things and anyone that has bought before is several hundred percent more likely to buy things in the future.

 

But that benchmark that keeps the barrier to entry low and the total subscribers high means you can enjoy and play the game to the fullest without spending a dime. This nonsense about it being a "Charade" that "Suckers for fall for" is just that, nonsense. I've played over a dozen F2P games that I never spent a dime on and enjoyed quite a bit, the most prominent is league of legends, it's no suckers game - if you don't want to spend any money you don't have to and you can still enjoy the game as much as anyone else. Vilifying the entire payment model only makes you look like a troglodyte - but given your posting history that's not really a surprise that you'd stoop that low.

[FadenFaste]

Upon what precedent, when TOR launched, should an LFG tool been "shipped at launch"? Because TERA is about to launch with the FIRST LFG tool IN THE HISTORY OF MMOs.

 

So, what's the precedent? Did not TOR create enough of its own precedents?

 

I respect your posts, JC, but I have to disagree with you on this point.

 

Just because WoW didn't ship with a group finder in 2004 doesn't mean that you can get away with that in 2012. The medium has advanced, and a group finder is a crucial element in a whether or not an MMO is fun out of the box. Lack of a group finder, coupled with the server population problems, means that we're looking at a single-player game with difficult-to-arrange, optional multiplayer content.

 

BTW, being able to pull together a 24-man raid of endgame players is swell, but I suspect that the feasibility of such a feat is highly dependent upon the culture and population of each server. What I need now is a way to experience the mid-game instances. Without a group finder, I'm levelling past them so fast playing solo, I'll never see them. If no one sees them, why bother with the time and expense to develop them? Just scale them all up for endgame characters, and we'll play them then...assuming we survive the lonely grind to 50. Or are there heroic versions of all the mid-game instances already implemented?

[Skirata_Kal]

I respect your posts, JC, but I have to disagree with you on this point.

 

Just because WoW didn't ship with a group finder in 2004 doesn't mean that you can get away with that in 2012. The medium has advanced, and a group finder is a crucial element in a whether or not an MMO is fun out of the box. Lack of a group finder, coupled with the server population problems, means that we're looking at a single-player game with difficult-to-arrange, optional multiplayer content.

 

BTW, being able to pull together a 24-man raid of endgame players is swell, but I suspect that the feasibility of such a feat is highly dependent upon the culture and population of each server. What I need now is a way to experience the mid-game instances. Without a group finder, I'm levelling past them so fast playing solo, I'll never see them. If no one sees them, why bother with the time and expense to develop them? Just scale them all up for endgame characters, and we'll play them then...assuming we survive the lonely grind to 50. Or are there heroic versions of all the mid-game instances already implemented?

 

Every instance has a lvl 50 HM, so yes to your last question.

[JeramieCrowe]

That's the quote you agreed to. Either you were agreeing with your head up somewhere it ought naught be - or you were endorsing his message which is "It's not free because you end up paying more."

 

Which is a load of grade A horse manure. Only poorly made cash grabs labeled as games are pay to win - that's not what we're talking about here. You can fully experience a solid F2P game without paying a cent - that's the benchmark, the key to F2P is two things: Total Subscribers and Retention rate. The more subs, the more people buying things, the longer they sub the more likely they are to buy things and anyone that has bought before is several hundred percent more likely to buy things in the future.

 

But that benchmark that keeps the barrier to entry low and the total subscribers high means you can enjoy and play the game to the fullest without spending a dime. This nonsense about it being a "Charade" that "Suckers for fall for" is just that, nonsense. I've played over a dozen F2P games that I never spent a dime on and enjoyed quite a bit, the most prominent is league of legends, it's no suckers game - if you don't want to spend any money you don't have to and you can still enjoy the game as much as anyone else. Vilifying the entire payment model only makes you look like a troglodyte - but given your posting history that's not really a surprise that you'd stoop that low.

 

If, on average, the typical player did NOT pay more than $15/month, why do you think more and more developers are turing toward it? Why do you think profits, on average are GREATER for an F2P game than a sub-based one?

 

Because they get revenue magically? Even though the average player is paying less? Wow! I thought magic was fiction!

[Squatdog_nz]

You cannot say that definitively any more than I can definitively say they are. Next quarter will tell for sure.

 

What I do know is the pattern of EA's previous conference calls over several years. They do not misrepresent trends. To do so would have been the end of the company a decade ago.

 

EA specifically and categorically stated that the 'active subscription' figure included trial accounts.

 

It's in their best interest to misrepresent what could potentially be a catastrophic decline in paying subscribers, hence the month of free playtime immediately prior to the quarterly report.

[JeramieCrowe]

I respect your posts, JC, but I have to disagree with you on this point.

 

Just because WoW didn't ship with a group finder in 2004 doesn't mean that you can get away with that in 2012. The medium has advanced, and a group finder is a crucial element in a whether or not an MMO is fun out of the box. Lack of a group finder, coupled with the server population problems, means that we're looking at a single-player game with difficult-to-arrange, optional multiplayer content.

 

Rift didn't even launch with an LFG last March. TERA is the FIRST to launch with one.

 

BTW, being able to pull together a 24-man raid of endgame players is swell, but I suspect that the feasibility of such a feat is highly dependent upon the culture and population of each server. What I need now is a way to experience the mid-game instances. Without a group finder, I'm levelling past them so fast playing solo, I'll never see them. If no one sees them, why bother with the time and expense to develop them? Just scale them all up for endgame characters, and we'll play them then...assuming we survive the lonely grind to 50. Or are there heroic versions of all the mid-game instances already implemented?

 

I think that this/next month's transfer/shut-downs will accomplish just that. It went perfect for Rift last year. To the point that they only have 250k subs, yet every server is filled. They did NOT do merges.

Edited May 9, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[JeramieCrowe]

EA specifically and categorically stated that the 'active subscription' figure included trial accounts.

 

It's in their best interest to misrepresent what could potentially be a catastrophic decline in paying subscribers, hence the month of free playtime immediately prior to the quarterly report.

 

I guess we'll see next quarter, eh?

 

The thing is, even if they reported only 750k subs, that's still not "catastrophic". As an investor, myself (successful, I might add) I wouldn't view it as catastrophic. I'd keep my money in it. 500k...different story.

Edited May 9, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[FadenFaste]

Every instance has a lvl 50 HM, so yes to your last question.

 

Good to know. I had to shelve my Sawbones at 38 because I got sick of healing Corso Riggs while he shot everything for me. My guardian just passed 38 tonight, so 50 is in the forseeable future. Now, if I were only on a server with an active guild or two, I might get to see some of those flash points at 50. Which brings us back to the server population problem...