Subs down 25%

[vsalcedo]

Well if they cut about 35% of the servers down(look and count the freaking listing its huge.) It would increase the "high population feeling" for most people. Then they can all go back to fighting for spawns and World bosses.

 

EXACTLY people expect all servers to have WoW numbers....Thats a bit unrealistic atm. Took wow a couple years to get that many players see all the changes WoW went thru and how many players they gain and lose.

[Thaed]

Also all the people who say this game will be fine with 250k players are wrong! How much of that 200 million do you think they downscaled after the game went live. I bet it costs more after the launch than prior to.

 

500k subscribers will still be profitable, if an investor call from a few years ago is still correct.

[Rikeryo]

The main point is that GW2 has no sub fee at all...

 

Why the hell do they need it here? we already paid for the game... if something needs to be fixed then fix it, we dont need to pay for fixes... dosent make sense...

 

I have 3 months left (fanboy) but i have unsubbed, cause to have PVP i (and friends) need to gank a pub base for 30 mins until some enemy guilds come in to stop us... this causes 15 mins of fun until we are overpowered...

 

when we get back there.... everybody is gone...and the gank starts again.

 

yup. the content they've released so far (and removed .. ilum bro) isn't worth a monthly fee.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Rikeryo

[Rezakh]

No one said it was going to be a major WOW competitor lol.

 

Actually, BW devs specifically came out and said this which is common knowledge for those that have been following the game's development for the last 5-6 years. This is the source of a lot of backlash, in my opinion, which was all I was pointing out.

 

Do the research for yourself if you're not informed enough on the development history of ToR. But saying that something was not said when historical fact would present the opposite is fooling yourself, sorry, if you feel differently.

 

I think they would be best off to implement some of the major things that they said they would do but ignored and move on from there. Focus on their remaining player base and rebuild. BW can certainly thrive, even to their own standards, following that formula.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Rezakh

[Devlonir]

The backlash from all the "TOR is dying" folks I think really comes from the let down. This game was supposed to be the major competitor to WoW and it failed, horribly, ignoring the very development points that BW advertised would need to be done to actually compete with WoW.

And who made it 'supposed to be the major competitor to WoW'? As always; the players themselves with their rose-tinted goggles and not the Devs themselves. They never said to have an ambition to rival WoW, they just wanted a piece of the pie. But the fans made this 'the next WoW killer that will take millions of subs off WoW' and created the unrealistic expectations.

 

And if the end-of-year break even point is 500.000 subs and they are on 1.3 million 5 months in.. the game is still doing good. No other game that launched primarily in the West has ever had that many players so far into the game's history. Only MMO to beat it was Aion, but that was a major launch in Asia and the West. If TOR keeps between 500.000 to 1 million by the end of the first year the game will probably stay strong for some more time. And honestly, I don't see GW2, TERA or TSW have a great impact on the game like many others suggest. And Diablo 3? It will have the same impact as Mass Effect 3 had at best. So a drop in activity of players for some time, but people will keep their subs for when Diablo gets old.

 

Sky is not falling, and the game is not the WoW killer. Amazing eh? That these things can be combined in the current MMO market.

I personally prefer a dozen AAA titles with between 500.000 and 1 million players than 1 monster with 12 million as WoW was. The current MMO market is much healthier than before, if people only let others enjoy the game they enjoy without bashing it or trying to destroy the name of a game just because it is not their personal taste.

[Devlonir]

Actually, BW devs specifically came out and said this which is common knowledge for those that have been following the game's development for the last 5-6 years.

 

Do the research for yourself if you're not informed enough on the development history of ToR. But saying that something was not said when historical fact would present the opposite is fooling yourself, sorry.

 

If it is historical fact, than give a source please. As I specifically remember it being the other way around and Bioware staff more often than not downplaying suggestions of the game being a WoW killer. Heck, the famous "500.000 is all we need to break even" comment came from one of those specific moments.

 

So please, source to back your statement.

[Kaisernick]

EXACTLY people expect all servers to have WoW numbers....Thats a bit unrealistic atm. Took wow a couple years to get that many players see all the changes WoW went thru and how many players they gain and lose.

 

maybe but i have to agree that right now this game needs a serious server merge, than and only then the game might start to pick up.

[Harleyz]

We all knew the downward spiral was happening. But, do they include my sub as active because im currently

un-subbed and playing on the free game time with 28 days left. How many others are in the same boat?

On the other hand, give me reputation grinds (like 10 or so to max out) and id still be playing.

But i guess we all want something more. Too bad its just not there

[Goretzu]

Pick pick pick pick. Moan moan moan moan. This is the most cherry picking Chicken Littling unrealistically hyperbolic group I've seen for a long time. Compare/contrast. Step back, be objective. Numbers are numbers, people, and they don't lie. 24% is well above the typical MMO trend from launch out, when most other MMOs are at 50% or more at 6 months.

 

But you'll probably continue to ignore that and try to pull that sky down just to prove you're right.

 

Anyway. See you all in a year when subs have trended upwards.

 

 

I'm not sure we've seen a subs number low yet, I suspect it will still dip below the 1,000,000 mark no matter what, as things stand (SWTOR is running about 50% retention from box sales atm which is still pretty good).

 

But equally if things are done well then there is no reason why they could not start to go back up (a space expansion for example would both expand the game and attract old and new players).

 

 

Rift sorted itself out, merged server, regrouped and in now growing again, SWTOR has much more potential than that (on the other hand Warhammer Online had tons of potential, but was hit by bad decision after bad decision which just murdered it ).

Edited May 8, 2012 by Goretzu

[Arkudel]

Well, just cancelled my subscription. Don't know how to express my feelings for the game without dipping into the negative; will just say this, your game is in trouble and I have better things to do. Good luck.

[Thaed]

If it is historical fact, than give a source please. As I specifically remember it being the other way around and Bioware staff more often than not downplaying suggestions of the game being a WoW killer. Heck, the famous "500.000 is all we need to break even" comment came from one of those specific moments.

 

So please, source to back your statement.

 

Don't know how much faith you'll put into my word, but there were one or two articles in which devs were quoted saying they wanted to compete with WoW. I remember cringing as soon as I read them. I can't recall the dgree to which they said that though, nor could I be bothered digging up a 2-3 year old article.

[Rezakh]

If it is historical fact, than give a source please. As I specifically remember it being the other way around and Bioware staff more often than not downplaying suggestions of the game being a WoW killer. Heck, the famous "500.000 is all we need to break even" comment came from one of those specific moments.

 

So please, source to back your statement.

 

Go find it, it's common enough knowledge and I am sure it is still out there. I have not seen the videos/articles in a number of years so you'll need to put in a little effort and look for it, but there's enough people here that know the early history of this game's development enough to know that BW set up this expectation, not the players. The players certainly aided in perpetuating it, but it started with BW.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Rezakh

[MasterBalrog]

Just as some useful information for people, check out this chart from mmodata.net: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png. Where was WoW 4 months after launch? About 1.3 million subscribers.

 

Not to say that I expect anything like WoW's meteoric growth for SWTOR, but I do think it reinforces the point that 1.3 million subs is a great place to be at 4 months post-launch.

[Amlici]

Whats funny to me is it seems that its more the US that arent supporting the game as much as Europe and Asia/Pacific. It's the US servers that all seem to be on light populations. Euro has a few aswell but alot less than US. Asia Pacific servers are all heavily populated The game is made and run in the US why isnt everyone getting behind it there?

[Tiaa]

500k subscribers will still be profitable, if an investor call from a few years ago is still correct.

 

Sadly, what Bioware did to this game was make it LESS about what is profitable and more about empty promises and hype. Making statments like "SWTOR will more than compete with WoW" etc...people expected ALOT.

 

That's the main problem.

 

This game SHOULD be free to play and at best have a Legacy cash shop. That would be perfect for this game.

 

It is NOT worth a subscription and Bioware doesn't seem to learn ANYTHING at all from this experience.

 

It's like the game is continously going backwards. Literally going backwards.

 

From having to REGRIND gear to 1.2 making class balance worse.

 

Bioware and forum boys can try to spin this all they want but in the end the INVESTORS decide if this game is worth it or not.

 

And I am pretty sure alot of them read this forum now.

[Goretzu]

yup. the content they've released so far (and removed .. ilum bro) isn't worth a monthly fee.

 

I do think they need to get that back in.

 

Warhammer Online started doing that, taking suffer out with vague promises to put stuff back in, but took so long (over 2 years) people had left the game sick of waiting, and then I think it ended up being taken straight out again anyway as they still couldn't get it working.

 

Basically SWTOR needs to take a different path, Ilum needs a fully new and properly designed and thought out RvR basin by mid-summer.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Goretzu

[Hellmet]

Just as some useful information for people, check out this chart from mmodata.net: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png. Where was WoW 4 months after launch? About 1.3 million subscribers.

 

Not to say that I expect anything like WoW's meteoric growth for SWTOR, but I do think it reinforces the point that 1.3 million subs is a great place to be at 4 months post-launch.

 

Not if your subs is going the other way.

[Unruhe]

We all knew the downward spiral was happening. But, do they include my sub as active because im currently

un-subbed and playing on the free game time with 28 days left. How many others are in the same boat?

On the other hand, give me reputation grinds (like 10 or so to max out) and id still be playing.

But i guess we all want something more. Too bad its just not there

 

At this point all I'd want (immediately) are people to play the game with. The game, at launch, was not what I deem a "release-quality" product and so I left rather than putting up with it, came back for the free week, liked what I saw of 1.2, and signed up to get a free month.

 

I started doing my dailies, and leveling an alt with my friend so he can be the only other person on Ilum with me to do the dailies, and then once I've had my fill of daily grinding and I see how long it's going to take to form a flashpoint (let alone a raid, my server/faction is dead as hell) I'm gone again. I'm not "full" on the content that the game currently has, because I intentionally didn't play it in an inferior state. Problem now is that I don't even have a hope of accessing that content because I won't be able to find people to play this "MMO" with due to server mismanagement.

[Devlonir]

Go find it, it's common enough knowledge and I am sure it is still out there. I have not seen the videos/articles in a number of years so you'll need to put in a little effort and look for it, but there's enough people here that know the early history of this game's development enough to know that BW set up this expectation, not the players. The players certainly aided in perpetuating it, but it started with BW.

 

Wait wait.. so you are telling me that what Dev's said early in the cycle about their ambition still counts today? I mean.. despite them actually saying (here comes the best part) the complete opposite on multiple occassions since?

 

People have ambitions, they sometimes share these ambitions, then when they work towards them they realise they are not as realistic as expected and change those ambitions according to actual new information. But of course.. some people will keep unrealistic expectations going no matter what other things are being said.

 

My point still stands: Problem of the fans, not the Devs. Only thing they did wrong was being too honest at the start of their development cycle.

 

Oh.. and this is me assuming what you say is true.. I still need to see any quote saying to expect this game will rival WoW (as competing with is something completely different than rivaling)

[rjkishida]

Subs are down way more than 25%. Remember that free day and then the free month given out?

 

THAT WAS TO PAD NUMBERS

 

Bioware can claim that the number of subscribers is higher than the number of players because people still have accounts. There are tons of people who stuck around to get the free 30 days in the vain hopes that the game would be playable. There is no way Bioware will be able to fix the game enough in 30 days. The next quarter numbers will have an even more shocking drop in numbers and EA will have to come up with some new excuse to fob off on people. Except for a few active servers this game is dead.

[vsalcedo]

Sadly, what Bioware did to this game was make it LESS about what is profitable and more about empty promises and hype. Making statments like "SWTOR will more than compete with WoW" etc...people expected ALOT.

 

That's the main problem.

 

This game SHOULD be free to play and at best have a Legacy cash shop. That would be perfect for this game.

 

It is NOT worth a subscription and Bioware doesn't seem to learn ANYTHING at all from this experience.

 

It's like the game is continously going backwards. Literally going backwards.

 

From having to REGRIND gear to 1.2 making class balance worse.

 

Bioware and forum boys can try to spin this all they want but in the end the INVESTORS decide if this game is worth it or not.

 

And I am pretty sure alot of them read this forum now.

No ty to cash shops, it's worth the 15 a month, I play enough to get my moneys worth.

[Rezakh]

Wait wait.. so you are telling me that what Dev's said early in the cycle about their ambition still counts today? I mean.. despite them actually saying (here comes the best part) the complete opposite on multiple occassions since?

 

People have ambitions, they sometimes share these ambitions, then when they work towards them they realise they are not as realistic as expected and change those ambitions according to actual new information. But of course.. some people will keep unrealistic expectations going no matter what other things are being said.

 

My point still stands: Problem of the fans, not the Devs. Only thing they did wrong was being too honest at the start of their development cycle.

 

Oh.. and this is me assuming what you say is true.. I still need to see any quote saying to expect this game will rival WoW (as competing with is something completely different than rivaling)

 

Your point that the problem is the fans, OK, got it. Thanks for the input. Take care.

[Unruhe]

Whats funny to me is it seems that its more the US that arent supporting the game as much as Europe and Asia/Pacific. It's the US servers that all seem to be on light populations. Euro has a few aswell but alot less than US. Asia Pacific servers are all heavily populated The game is made and run in the US why isnt everyone getting behind it there?

 

My guess is that there are way more US-specific servers than anywhere else. We're around, but we're all just spread out over a needlessly larger area. The AUS/NZ folks seem to be pretty happy with their servers, all 3 of them. That's what we need here.

 

TOR has more than one issue in regards to player retention, but the super-low server populations many of us are having is only going to cause more subs to trickle out. If we were consolidated to a few servers that had healthy playerbases so we could actually find groups and communities for the content we'd like to do, it would help a ton.

[Harleyz]

Just as some useful information for people, check out this chart from mmodata.net: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png. Where was WoW 4 months after launch? About 1.3 million subscribers.

 

Not to say that I expect anything like WoW's meteoric growth for SWTOR, but I do think it reinforces the point that 1.3 million subs is a great place to be at 4 months post-launch.

 

WoW what a monster. Look at that baby climb and climb. Amazing.

[Sanxxx]

Pick pick pick pick. Moan moan moan moan. This is the most cherry picking Chicken Littling unrealistically hyperbolic group I've seen for a long time. Compare/contrast. Step back, be objective. Numbers are numbers, people, and they don't lie. 24% is well above the typical MMO trend from launch out, when most other MMOs are at 50% or more at 6 months.

 

But you'll probably continue to ignore that and try to pull that sky down just to prove you're right.

 

Anyway. See you all in a year when subs have trended upwards.

 

'most other MMOs are at 50% or more at 6 months', not a lot of evidence for 'most' , the obvious candidate however being WAR. Also around 1.3m after three months isn't a great number if you need 1m+ ongoing to make a 'nothing to write home about' profit, not much room left.

 

'Anyway. See you all in a year when subs have trended upwards' , now that's wishful thinking