Subs down 25%

[JeramieCrowe]

2 million - 1.3 million = 700k

 

Almost 50% of the people who purchased the game have left.

 

And for RIFT, almost two million bought/received the game with 250k left, and it's considered successful.

[Dezzi]

And for RIFT, almost two million bought/received the game with 250k left, and it's considered successful.

 

What was RIFT's budget? Does it have a big-name IP behind it?

 

I guess what people are trying to tell me is that SWTOR is too big to fail.

[blazingg]

2 million - 1.3 million = 700k

 

Almost 50% of the people who purchased the game have left.

 

from what i have heard its more around 2.2 million -1.3 million = 900k

[WrentheFaceless]

And for RIFT, almost two million bought/received the game with 250k left, and it's considered successful.

 

1.3 million is still a lot for MMO. People need to stop using WoW numbers, WoW's the crazy outlier.

[Muskaan]

1.3 million is still a lot for MMO. People need to stop using WoW numbers, WoW's the crazy outlier.

 

Problem is EA has to explain to its investors as to why their MMO can't make WoW numbers. Investors only care about return to their investments. That is $$$$$$

[Slurmez]

and? It's doing much better then any other post WoW MMO.

 

no it isnt, not at all.

 

There are many MMOs out there that are profitable, SWTOR isnt, not yet, it wont even be close to covering the start up costs. TOR was the most expensive MMO to date and has a gigantic debt to repay, people see it in far to simplistic terms, its not X to make and Y from box sales so its all gravy. Debt has interest payments on it, theres overheads to pay, licensing, staff, servers support, marketing etc and you can damn well be sure Lucas is taking a rather fat slice whether the game is making profit or not. The marketing costs alone would be horrendous, remember all thos prime time TV ads during every commercial break on almost every channel over xmas?

 

This game could cover costs in time but its never going to be a runaway success, the planets themselves are virtually EMPTY even on the busiest servers, people play MMOs for the MMO experience otherwise they may as well jump on the xbox. This game was a simplistic console game following along in Biowares past traditions, their lack of MMO experience has shown and caught them out.

[MandraMoody]

I have played MMOs for the past 8 years and I have never seen anyone totally wipe out classes and change gameplay to this extent in one patch unless it was unintentional. I'm sure it has happened but not in any games I have played. Why would anyone stay after their class was made uncompetative in one update? Answer: they won't! They simply cancel their account and move on to the next game hoping for something better.

 

The OP asked why people are still here if they hate the game. I said I would happily leave the forums if they gave me my money back due to the fact that the game was not the same as I purchased, otherwise, i'm content just sitting here and diverting people away from this travesty!

 

You obviously never played SWG. In ONE DAY, SOE cut 32 classes down to 9. Totally removing an entire open-ended skill system and replacing it with a 3 tree talent system. They also lost 200k subs. But guess what? people still played it. Once they added new content they recovered quite a bit of subs as well. People will not just ragequit for life if there is at least something the game has to offer that the others don't.

 

swtor isn't the "ZOMG WORST MMO FAIL EVAH!" as so many attention seeking threads proclaim. There are FAR worse out there *cough* STO/AoC/WAR/LoTRO/Fallen Earth/Rift/etc *cough*

 

Edit: what if you logged in tomorrow and your whole class was gone? Not "no longer viable" but gone?

Edited May 8, 2012 by MandraMoody

[Dezzi]

1.3 million is still a lot for MMO. People need to stop using WoW numbers, WoW's the crazy outlier.

 

Of course it's a lot! 1.3 million people is a great number, but that's not what's really important is it? The fact that 25% of the subscriber base left after only a couple months is a cause for reevaluation of the game's direction.

[blazingg]

And for RIFT, almost two million bought/received the game with 250k left, and it's considered successful.

Rift has barely been out a year and its at 250k and you think its a good thing? how soon before its 150k then 50k then f2p just like this game will be and im also pretty sure rift didnt cost almost 300 million to make.

[JeramieCrowe]

What was RIFT's budget? Does it have a big-name IP behind it?

 

I guess what people are trying to tell me is that SWTOR is too big to fail.

 

Who cares? EA already stated that TOR is "very profitable" and that subs are currently "on target". Next "sky is falling" scenario I can shoot down, please.

[JeramieCrowe]

Rift has barely been out a year and its at 250k and you think its a good thing? how soon before its 150k then 50k then f2p just like this game will be and im also pretty sure rift didnt cost almost 300 million to make.

 

It's a success. Trion has called it successful and so has the shareholders. Your point?

[mikegr]

As another user stated, you're new to MMO's arent you?

 

I played and still play a Paladin in WoW. Vanilla, BC, WOTLK and now Cata paladins are completly different from one another; my class is pretty much remade every xpac, but yknow thats how these games work, things change all the time; sometimes good sometimes bad.

 

If you cant handle that, then perhaps a MMO is not the game for you.

 

So you are saying that it's acceptable for a company to completely change a class without any testing whatsoever and anyone who doesn't like it shouldn't play the games in the first place? Do you realize that every game would be limited to a couple hundred thousand noobs who only enjoy masochism or are too inexperienced to realize any difference?

 

Class and game design changes are one of the main reasons many people stop playing MMOs. Why play something that is no longer fun? Perhaps MMOs are the perfect type of game for me but one that uses common sense and proper testing before implementing changes!

[Mallorik]

Of course it's a lot! 1.3 million people is a great number, but that's not what's really important is it? The fact that 25% of the subscriber base left after only a couple months is a cause for reevaluation of the game's direction.

 

I think the bigger problem that i dont see people mentioning is that its still losing people and probably at an increasing rate as servers become more sparse.

[JeramieCrowe]

Problem is EA has to explain to its investors as to why their MMO can't make WoW numbers. Investors only care about return to their investments. That is $$$$$$

 

That's funny. Obviously you didn't even listen to or read the whole document. EA is NOT worried about TOR. They stated that the current sub numbers are at expected levels, and that it is "very profitable".

[Muskaan]

That's funny. Obviously you didn't even listen to or read the whole document. EA is NOT worried about TOR. They stated that the current sub numbers are at expected levels, and that it is "very profitable".

 

And I am sure that their investors are really happy about that.

[JeramieCrowe]

And I am sure that their investors are really happy about that.

 

Indeed they are. And that's a good thing. It means that EA will still largely leave BioWare alone.

[WrentheFaceless]

Of course it's a lot! 1.3 million people is a great number, but that's not what's really important is it? The fact that 25% of the subscriber base left after only a couple months is a cause for reevaluation of the game's direction.

 

Well, how many people left Vanilla WoW that first quarter, with its days or even weeks of downtime/crashes/lack of content/lack of a pvp system at all?

 

Bet you it was more.

 

Games like this dont grow by day one subs, they grow by word of mouth later.

[Mallorik]

Indeed they are. And that's a good thing. It means that EA will still largely leave BioWare alone.

 

Well despite the investors probably not being happy since their stock dropped, didnt they also say that swtor got pushed behind the sims on the money train?

[WrentheFaceless]

So you are saying that it's acceptable for a company to completely change a class without any testing whatsoever and anyone who doesn't like it shouldn't play the games in the first place? Do you realize that every game would be limited to a couple hundred thousand noobs who only enjoy masochism or are too inexperienced to realize any difference?

 

Class and game design changes are one of the main reasons many people stop playing MMOs. Why play something that is no longer fun? Perhaps MMOs are the perfect type of game for me but one that uses common sense and proper testing before implementing changes!

 

You assume that the changes they make are ones that you want, not ones they feel is best.

 

They're not, never have been, never will be. I've heard all of these arguments before, usually from the "Its my $15 a month wahhhh i want my way" crowd

[Dezzi]

Well, how many people left Vanilla WoW that first quarter, with its days or even weeks of downtime/crashes/lack of content/lack of a pvp system at all?

 

Bet you it was more.

 

Games like this dont grow by day one subs, they grow by word of mouth later.

 

I didn't play WoW, so I can't be sure; however, this chart makes it quite clear...

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

[AlphaBraddox]

Another MMO that failed with PVP. The PVP crowd like myself have left because there is nothing of interest. I hope BW learned from their Ilum debacle and failed class makeup that makes WZs a frustrating grind. I had hopes for TOR and sure PVE is OK but there are many that want to do things outside of PVE. I did see this coming and will only get worse until BW gets its act together.

[WrentheFaceless]

Another MMO that failed with PVP. The PVP crowd like myself have left because there is nothing of interest. I hope BW learned from their Ilum debacle and failed class makeup that makes WZs a frustrating grind. I had hopes for TOR and sure PVE is OK but there are many that want to do things outside of PVE. I did see this coming and will only get worse until BW gets its act together.

 

Thats a different issue entirely. MMO's are probably the worst medium for any semblance of PVP

[Slurmez]

Indeed they are. And that's a good thing. It means that EA will still largely leave BioWare alone.

 

Haha

 

EA left Mythic alone on WAR and that was not a good thing, incompetance and mismanagement took a massive IP with an epic foundation and ran it into the ground. The problem with developers is they are hugely arrogant and often make the game based around themselves, once xbox acheivement tweeting Carrie "queen of the sea cows" Gouskos got her pie stained mits of WAR she simplified it like her beloved console junk and 90% of the remaining players bailed

 

Arrogant people people think they are right even when they are wrong and think the ability to "stay the course" is leadership instead of stupidity which is what happened to SWG. Many sucessful MMOs are unrecognisable from their origins as they adapted in accordance with their core market, Im not sure SWTOR has the strength of leadership to do this or even if the junk hero engine is capable of supporting relevant change.

 

All that said they would only have to do something simple to get me to resub again - Jawa player class.

[Sanxxx]

That's funny. Obviously you didn't even listen to or read the whole document. EA is NOT worried about TOR. They stated that the current sub numbers are at expected levels, and that it is "very profitable".

 

That first comment of theirs was very 'weaselly' ....

 

'First, the current number of active subscribers, 1.3 million, is very consistent with the original assumptions we made when we acquired BioWare in 2008.'

 

To refer to 4 year old assumption.....like any company doesn't update their financial assumptions every year.

[Dezzi]

That first comment of theirs was very 'weaselly' ....

 

'First, the current number of active subscribers, 1.3 million, is very consistent with the original assumptions we made when we acquired BioWare in 2008.'

 

To refer to 4 year old assumption.....like any company doesn't update their financial assumptions every year.

 

"Weasely" is a very good word for it.

 

Smoke and mirrors. The game isn't performing the way they wanted it to, so they're downplaying its importance in the company's lineup as well as downplaying the scale of the subscription decline.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Dezzi