Jedi Guardian PvP

[DeviantewoK]

first I want to say that this has turned into a nice thread with lots of good pointers and tips so thanks to all who have contributed.

 

I roll a VIG DPS Guardian (ATM 0/28/5) and the combination of a aging computer that can't give me good frame rates during war zones and a lack of skill in MMO PVP in general were making the enjoyment factor all but null. Despite this I kept trying, hoping to get better and knowing eventually I'd have a better computer. So I figured I'd hit the forums for tips and found this thread, while reading it I kept seeing people say "TANK TANK TANK!" and think "But, I'm DPS.." and others pointed this out too and I thought "yeah what about the 2 DPS trees?!" and these posts had really good advice that I will later put to use, but since my DPS wasn't going well do to the above stated reasons, I figured I'd give this tank advice a shot.. after all, I have the stance and abilities that just collect dust from lack of use.. The results are I had a lot of fun! I'm not a good tank mind you but what I do is find the healer on my team and frakking guard the hell out of them! Funny thing is I still get as many kills as I was getting trying to DPS and I'm getting points in defense/protection so my scores are higher. I'm also getting medals and even managed to get a MVP vote from I assume an appreciative healer Now, I'm not going to re-roll as tank because I still prefer DPS in PVE but I can faux tank enough in a WZ to at least not be complete dead weight to my team until I can get a computer that isn't on it's last leg. I'm not saying everyone should give up on DPS cause I've seen many of the videos out there of Guardians doing mass damage on the battlefield but I just wanted to share my results in case anyone else was struggling with skill and PC woes.

[Mycrof]

Guard... Taunt...

2 reasons why your team should win at hutball all the time...

 

Guard, Taunt;

2 reasons why your team should win at civil war.

 

Guard, Taunt;

2 reasons why your team should win at void star...

 

 

Its at class that actually takes skill. Kinda a totally new concept for some of the masses. Just play something else if you dont like it.

 

 

 

I dont get it when at the end of the match I see Juggernauts and Guardians with ZERO protection points. Boggles my mind.

 

There needs to be an asterik that points out guarding with no healing support generally means a trip to spawn particular if aes are flying.

[DoctorWhorrible]

Great thread, y'all. Really good info here, and I've enjoyed reading your posts.

 

One thing I'm not quite clear on, though. In 1v1 PvP situations, which spec do you guys prefer - Defense, Vigilance, Focus, or a hybrid build?

 

I know PvP isn't balanced around 1v1, but duels are my FAVORITE aspect of any MMO.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Just my opinion on this: Defense won't burn the opponent down quick enough. Focus, while bursty, is squishy and it's very easy to avoid the force sweep or just run away from the Guardian giving the sweep a high chance of just not hitting despite how close you seem to be. Vigilance has more pvp survival tools than the other two specs and with proper gear does very good damage. It's hard to argue against things like increased endurance, reduced damage, and cc immunity after leap when it comes to 1v1. Though, like I said, you will need to be decently geared. Until you are geared roll Focus it doesn't require as much gear to be effective.

[TheLakers]

 

Of course there are times when you should guard a healer, and it's a good idea to monitor the flow of battle to know when you should put it up and when you should switch back to your DPS stance (assuming, again, a DPS spec).

 

Then again, Vig dps is weak sauce in PvP and you don't need shien form to throw dispatch. If you want to end that fight faster you should be throwing guard on the dude spamming grav round and peeling off any would be interrupts.

Edited February 11, 2012 by TheLakers

[Ethias]

Then again, Vig dps is weak sauce in PvP. If you want to end that fight faster you should be throwing guard on the dude spamming grav round.

 

Vig DPS is fine. It's burst is not as high as focus but it puts out strong sustained damage and has good finishing ability. I think Plasma Brand is lackluster given it's placement and cost, but Overhead Slash is fantastic and Force Rush allows for strong sustained damage and awesome finishing.

[TheLakers]

Vig DPS is fine. It's burst is not as high as focus but it puts out strong sustained damage and has good finishing ability. I think Plasma Brand is lackluster given it's placement and cost, but Overhead Slash is fantastic and Force Rush allows for strong sustained damage and awesome finishing.

 

You mean mediocre sustained damage that any respectable imp healer could negate.

[Ethias]

You mean mediocre sustained damage that any respectable imp healer could negate.

 

If you're sitting alone on a target attacking someone being chain healed, then yes it can be healed through, but if you're actually fighting in a team game, then no. There is no damage in this game that a good uninterrupted healer chain healing into someone can't negate really. As to "raw DPS" or something, it's hard to compare, but it isn't hard for me to top damage numbers at the end of games as vig. Obviously this is a poor comparison but unfortunately it is about all we have right now.

 

If you're talking about a 2v2 with a DPS commando vs a healer and someone else, then it depends on the classes and how they play it as to what the best thing to do is. My friend is a DPS commando and when we've had that situation we typically take the healer out of the fight and burn the person they were healing.

 

I prefer Vig in team combat because of the increased utility, increased survivability, and strong sustain, at least more than Focus.

[TheLakers]

I

 

I prefer Vig in team combat because of the increased utility, increased survivability, and strong sustain, at least more than Focus.

 

Pure Vig dps is terrible in pvp, sorry. If you're rolling around in shien form I weep for your ops group.

 

Now a hybrid def/vig is a different story.

Edited February 11, 2012 by TheLakers

[GregMD]

Guardians are the most frustrating ******** class to play in pvp, force push NEVER works no matter how well you position yourself. Nothing makes me want to punch my computer screen more than playing this class in pvp.

[Ethias]

Pure Vig dps is terrible in pvp, sorry. If you're rolling around in shien form I weep for your ops group.

 

Now a hybrid def/vig is a different story.

 

It's not terrible in PvP at all. I suspect you've never run into a decent Vig player if you think it is. There's no reason (as focus or vig) to use one form exclusively.

[Janrek]

Guardians are the most frustrating ******** class to play in pvp, force push NEVER works no matter how well you position yourself. Nothing makes me want to punch my computer screen more than playing this class in pvp.

 

I feel ya man. Very few things make me rage when I somehow push the ball carrier INTO the endzone in Huttball, even when I am clearly in the opposite direction. Might be lag or FPS, but I almost broke my keyboard on several occassions because of that.

[Ethias]

I feel ya man. Very few things make me rage when I somehow push the ball carrier INTO the endzone in Huttball, even when I am clearly in the opposite direction. Might be lag or FPS, but I almost broke my keyboard on several occassions because of that.

 

especially on ramps/bridges, this game has awful tracking of players... that's why you will often "miss" when throwing a player from one of these. I notice it most on the edges of bridges and ramps, like right before the endzone area in huttball and right past the bridges in Voidstar. You'll think a player is a certain place, but in reality they are not, they are in a slightly different spot, so when you push them, they don't go where you intend.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Ethias

[Skilz]

I have have a level 40 guardian that was pure tank (defense) and got bored and decided to create a Sentinel (watchman build) and got him up to level 40 before I figured out how the Focus tree works on a Guardian.

 

What a difference the focus tree makes for the guardian class! You will do some amazing dps and actually be more useful to your teammates than being defense or vigilance as you will be casting free cc's (freezing force) and actually killing stuff with a heavily buffed AOE (Sweep).

 

Even though the pvp playing style is much different between sentinel (you are basically running around finding enemies with less than 50% health and finishing them off) and guardian, you will find the focus build to be a lot more fun and extremely more effective.

 

The key to a successful focus build is to remember that you are using force powers and any investment in blade attacks (e.g. slash) are a waste of time and energy cost. Once you understand this you will rule!

 

Happy hunting

[fearxninja]

I'm gonna be posting a juggernaut vengeance pvp montage soon so you know that us single sword weilding peeps got some power, since all the scrub players like Juros(LOL) think their good.

[VoidJustice]

PVP Tipz..

 

Level 50 250ish expertise Vig/Def guardian here.

 

The first thing about playing a Guardian in Pvp is you need to orient your personal objectives.

 

I do this as follows:

 

1) WZ Objectives

2) Healer defence

3) Everyone else defence

4) Mitigation Healing Op For Target

5) Help team focus down enemies

 

For a guardian this means your first priority is spatial awareness, scroll out your

view to make yourself as small as possible and ensure you can see as much around

you as possible. While you are fighting do your best to be constantly aware whats occuring around you. It's best to keep any Wz objectives and your healers in view at all times. React based on the objective plan above. Objective > Healer > Mitigation > Killing.

 

Use Throw/Leap/AOE Taunt/(Sweep)/Push/Guardian Leap at the begining of large group fights but after intial engagement. You must do your best to survive this maneuver so Guardian leaping back to a friendly near cover is a good idea. I would concider Force Push and Sweep optional in this maneuver, the real damage is done by the AOE taunt, MAKE SURE IT HITS AS MANY DPS AND HEALERS as possible. Force Push in this routine can be used to throw somebody off a cliff, push a healer out of range, Push a squishy into range.

 

Linger by healers and only engage team main targets when the enemy team adds on your kill team or when you can quickly kill and get back to the healers.

 

Use snares liberally and during movement between objectives or when moving with the Hutball carrier...

 

PASS THE HUTTBALL

 

 

 

Bind everything and memorize it all.

 

ESPECIALLY GUARD.

 

Ctrl + Tab targets friendlies in a foward cone priority extending from your point of view.

 

Learn from your own mistakes, whining and crying are useless.

 

Attack when advantageous; you aren't in cloth armor so

remember your VERY SQUISHY... /scratch head...

 

Stay with your group, pvp is not a solo activity.

 

Learn to instinctively track your cooldowns.

 

Take everything you hear, read, learn with a grain of salt and test it yourself.

 

Macro's and Memorized Combo's will never beat Critical Combat Thinking and a Deep Understanding of yourself and the enemy.

 

Maintain initiative.

 

Shrowd intent.

 

Be willing to forego personal valor/commendations for team wins.

 

Never surrender no matter how painfull your teammates...

 

Be a Jedi lead by example.

Edited March 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Politikon]

vig has no dmg compared to any other class focus burst gets close there is no way you can win a 1v1 with vig it just does so little dmg

 

This is completely untrue, at least from my perspective. I'm a lvl 50 guardian (vigilance spec) and I've been winning duels since I was just a lvl 10. Nothing has changed for me. You just have to keep your gear up to date, know your abilities, and learn a few tricks and gimmicks that will allow you to excel against your opponents. And most of all, you can't have a pessimistic outlook and expect to win. Push yourself! Keep trying until you win!

 

I'd make a comprehensive guide on how to play vigilance dps spec, but I don't think I'm the best or most qualified person to do so. I just know that I am competent and skilled enough to win.

 

EDIT: if you want to watch me play, to see that i'm not just talking out of my ***, my character's name is Osirin Redimere in the Sword of Ajunta Paul server.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Politikon

[Gify]

In WZ you have to use your ccs, guard and taunt as often as possible.

 

Don't rush against the crowd, instead keep at the back protecting the ranged classes.

 

I now understand that I will never be top kill or top dmg however even when my team lose I'm top medal, thus more commendation.

 

However I'm afraid what will be of us in open world. If a SI or any ranged class jump on us we can't output their dmg and our surv is not that great.

 

If they're casters, force kick them!

[AndantePhist]

This is completely untrue, at least from my perspective. I'm a lvl 50 guardian (vigilance spec) and I've been winning duels since I was just a lvl 10. Nothing has changed for me. You just have to keep your gear up to date, know your abilities, and learn a few tricks and gimmicks that will allow you to excel against your opponents. And most of all, you can't have a pessimistic outlook and expect to win. Push yourself! Keep trying until you win!

 

I'd make a comprehensive guide on how to play vigilance dps spec, but I don't think I'm the best or most qualified person to do so. I just know that I am competent and skilled enough to win.

 

EDIT: if you want to watch me play, to see that i'm not just talking out of my ***, my character's name is Osirin Redimere in the Sword of Ajunta Paul server.

 

A good vigilance guardian will never kill a good healer of equal skill if they have equal gear.

 

On my BM focus guardian, I have no trouble killing BM healers, it does take me 30-40 seconds, but I can catch them offguard with burst when their defensive cooldowns are down.

 

A vigilance guardian simply does not have the dps and mobility to take down a healer 1vs1 assuming the healer is good. A healer can kite a vigilance guardian alot easier than focus, and also vigilance lack the burst to kill healers.

[DeviantewoK]

all I know is I get killed by 20-30's easy and I'm 45.. at those lvls I was hopeless against a 40+ and I know it's prob more me and not the game. Maybe I should try focus and see if it works better for my play style but I'd like to max out Vig first and see if I can get it. Anyways, lot's of good info so far in this thread that's been helpful in me getting getting better.. just want to be real good Edited March 3, 2012 by DeviantewoK

[Politikon]

A good vigilance guardian will never kill a good healer of equal skill if they have equal gear.

 

On my BM focus guardian, I have no trouble killing BM healers, it does take me 30-40 seconds, but I can catch them offguard with burst when their defensive cooldowns are down.

 

A vigilance guardian simply does not have the dps and mobility to take down a healer 1vs1 assuming the healer is good. A healer can kite a vigilance guardian alot easier than focus, and also vigilance lack the burst to kill healers.

 

Never? You do realize that you started off with an invalid argument because your conclusion will not always be true.. ? So the way you're looking at it, an equally geared/skilled healer has nothing but advantages and the guardian has absolutely no chance of ever winning. You're falling into that highly cynical logic I was just referring to.

 

Vigilance spec doesn't have a lot of burst, but we do have some burst - enough to kill a healer that u describe if u cc, interrupt and use ur cooldown/finishing abilities at the right time. Yes the fight will likely be long one but it certainly is winnable.

[AndantePhist]

Never? You do realize that you started off with an invalid argument because your conclusion will not always be true.. ? So the way you're looking at it, an equally geared/skilled healer has nothing but advantages and the guardian has absolutely no chance of ever winning. You're falling into that highly cynical logic I was just referring to.

 

Vigilance spec doesn't have a lot of burst, but we do have some burst - enough to kill a healer that u describe if u cc, interrupt and use ur cooldown/finishing abilities at the right time. Yes the fight will likely be long one but it certainly is winnable.

 

it's not invalid because it IS true.

 

Notice how I mentioned good healer. If my statement was just "healer" without the "good" implying the healer might be bad, then yes my statement would be false, because a good vigilance guardian can kill a bad healer. But against a good healer... no, not going to happen. (assuming 1vs1 with no outside interference)

Edited March 4, 2012 by AndantePhist

[signahead]

it's not invalid because it IS true.

 

Notice how I mentioned good healer. If my statement was just "healer" without the "good" implying the healer might be bad, then yes my statement would be false, because a good vigilance guardian can kill a bad healer. But against a good healer... no, not going to happen. (assuming 1vs1 with no outside interference)

 

This is not a particularly impressive argument. It just runs around in a circle without actually engaging anyone else. "Good healer" needs a better definition, one that doesn't beg the question.

[Wraithai]

Is terrible. What are you even supposed to do? You have very little at your disposable as far as CC or reliable slows go (your CC also CCs yourself, awesome)

 

Your doing it wrong. (imo)

Spec Defense and use DPS gear.

You can't lose 1v1 and 1v2 is doable.

[Dracosz]

As a vengeance juggernaut in fully optimized BM/Custom offsets, I can honestly say that I kill GOOD healers VERY quickly (My server is full of rank 70+ players that are actually good at the game and didn't jerk ilum til it was dry) and I don't need to "get lucky" if I get on a healer and can time interrupts and use my toolset properly I will kill them. Sorcs are no trouble 99% of the time since they're both squishy and lose a big advantage in being able to kite me indefinitely due to unstoppable, BH heals/troopers go down if you can pressure them with shatter and force them to pop cds and op healers simply flop.

 

Both specs are viable in different ways. Don't write off vengeance (vigilance for you jks) simply because YOU cannot kill a healer. That speaks more of the quality of the player rather than the spec

 

Your doing it wrong. (imo)

Spec Defense and use DPS gear.

You can't lose 1v1 and 1v2 is doable.

 

Roll a powertech and do the same but have 4x the damage >_>

Edited March 5, 2012 by Dracosz

[CapuchinSeven]

it's not invalid because it IS true.

 

Notice how I mentioned good healer. If my statement was just "healer" without the "good" implying the healer might be bad, then yes my statement would be false, because a good vigilance guardian can kill a bad healer. But against a good healer... no, not going to happen. (assuming 1vs1 with no outside interference)

 

Sorry man but simply saying "good healer" is just an awful argument, no better than the group demanding buffs and anyone that doesn't need a buff is simply fighting "bad players".

 

Roll a powertech and do the same but have 4x the damage >_>

 

I destroy Powertechs, why should I care that they need more damage to still lose to me? s'even funnier when it's a Trooper because I get the rage tells later on.

Edited March 5, 2012 by CapuchinSeven