The "All MMOs have bugs at launch" is getting a little old...

[Spankyjnco]

I am tired of seeing the same argument. "Game XYZ had bugs too, their servers were down for 3 whole days!". "Such and such had a bug where you couldn't alt tab without crashing". yadda yadda....

 

Your right, tons of other MMOs had bugs. And tons of other MMOs failed because of those bugs.

 

Sever MMO's had bugs, but small MINOR bugs like a graphical error here, or the wrong text there. Most bugs were corrected within a week of being found. Let's check on star wars' bugs.

 

There is still over 50 bugs that I reported IN BETA that are still around today. That's a lot.

 

Every patch, something else breaks not even relating to the patch notes.

 

Soa is still buggy. The VERY FIRST operations end boss.. How is that even possible?

 

Tons of quests either failing to update, or not letting me talk to whom I need to talk to, forcing me to reset is still an issue, most of them require me to be in a group, which is very rare in this game, but it is still around.

 

The list could go on for days....

 

Server status is fine, that was a good job by them, but You have a shiny pair of wheels on a beat up car, and it still looks like crap.Customer Service.. a joke. Player to Developer interaction? Scripted.

 

So yeah, most MMO's when they launch do have bugs, a small glitch that prevents you from completing one quest, or an issue where an NPC won't trigger an event or something along those lines, Look at the patch notes since launch and see how many bugs have been fixed. Then think about the amount of bugs that have shown up after they fixed bugs that weren't relating to them.

 

Remember when 1.2 dropped and you couldn't log out of the game? Awesome. Replies.. those are still broken, minor tweaks seem to be made every update, yet nothing is said about it in the patch notes.

 

Imperial Agent cover system was broke for about 2 weeks after 1.2, and slowly it's been getting better/patched here and there, with no mention of it at all.

 

So yeah, look at the HUGE list of bug fixes, then realise that is probably a fraction of what has had to be fixed and caused by the company themselves. They cause more bugs than fix in my opinion.

[mypadinla]

Very well said sir I agree with your post

[Cerion]

Your right, tons of other MMOs had bugs. And tons of other MMOs failed because of those bugs.

 

And other MMOs have succeeded despite having bugs. What's your point? I agree bugs need to be fixed, but in and of itself bugs aren't game killers (unless they're of the real nasty kind). Heck, I've played one of the most bug-ridden RPG series of all time, The Elder Scrolls, and will continue to do so because the fun I have out-weighs the bugs. I remember playing Daggerfall and having the entire dungeon crash, wiping out all progress. But I'd load up the last save after some loud cursing, and jump obsessively back into playing. Skyrim is buggy too.

 

I'm not saying this as an excuse to forgive bugs...but the reality is that bugs happen. And if you want some sort of triple redundant system that NASA uses (and even then can fail), you're expecting too much.

[Spankyjnco]

And other MMOs have succeeded despite having bugs. What's your point? I agree bugs need to be fixed, but in and of itself bugs aren't game killers (unless they're of the real nasty kind). Heck, I've played one of the most bug-ridden RPG series of all time, The Elder Scrolls, and will continue to do so because the fun I have out-weighs the bugs. I remember playing Daggerfall and having the entire dungeon crash, wiping out all progress. But I'd load up the last save after some loud cursing, and jump obsessively back into playing. Skyrim is buggy too.

 

I'm not saying this as an excuse to forgive bugs...but the reality is that bugs happen. And if you want some sort of triple redundant system that NASA uses (and even then can fail), you're expecting too much.

 

no no that's not what I expect at all.

 

But to be working on a MMO for that long, with over a year of "pushbacks" on launch date, and tons of beta testing time that went into lots and lots of reporting of bugs... They should not have launched in December is what I am saying. And because they decided to launch with all this bugs, while most are minor, have caused a lot of people to stop playing.

 

It isn't the lack of content, that's just the easiest thing to cry about for people to have a reason to quit... its the annoyance.

 

The Annoyance of attempting progression in a flashpoint, or operation or something only to have it bug out on you 3-4 times is annoying and will make you quit.

 

Having quests not want to complete, or glitch out to the point where its 3-4 each planet will make you want to quit.

 

Inventory items that are usable that are greyed out, is an annoyance which will slowly make you quit.

 

Companion overlay being bugged for over a month, warzones popping up saying they are ready, only to boot you when you enter, finding a new bug a day for the first month of lauch. All these attribute to people quitting before their "paid" time starts up.

 

Now we suffer, and you hear the pleas of those that suffered through it and continue to suffer through it beg for server merges... (which has only been slightly touched on by bioware recently) has caused people to quit.

 

Being one of 3 people on any planet while leveling your alt and not being able to do the quests you want to do (which is a result from 1 person quitting over reason A. One person quitting over reason B. etc etc), has now caused more people to quit.

 

Sure there are people who enjoy the game (myself), and those that wish that they could have stayed, but were too annoyed by some bug or feature that was not in the game (which is no excuse for a triple A 2012 MMO that cost as much to make as this game did not to have).

 

I am simply stating, that when people post a negative topic on this game, the fanboys jump out of the bushes screaming "Yeah this game has bugs, all games do". Yes they are right, but most other games would have fixed their problems by now or suffered the same fate we are suffering now in this community. Sure some games have semi-bounced back, but most stay barren, or go free to play, or get taken over by another company who attempts to fix the problems....

 

But think back, How many MMO's have you played that you wished was better in a few aspects, and you quit because of these problems. You might of had it in your head to go back and play at some point, but that never happened, or when it did, even though the problems you had were fixed, not many people want to jump on board of a 2 year old train.

 

The only people you can almost guarantee WILL come back are those who this was their first MMO. Statistically, you will always go back tot he first real MMO you played multiple times. Sadly, that is why WoW is still around and holding strong, but besides that, Chinese gold farmers pay for the servers (lawl).

[Pootie-Tang]

All mmos have bugs but when u get a **** like jeff hickman releasing a game too early. Thats why there is bugs.

[kidatwood]

Simple solution to this don't play mmo's. They all have bugs.

[Myshkyn]

...and the threads of "RAAAAHHHRRRR!! THIS GAME HAS BUGS!!! GAAAAHHHHH UNSUBSCRIBE!!!" are just as old.

[Cerion]

But think back, How many MMO's have you played that you wished was better in a few aspects, and you quit because of these problems. You might of had it in your head to go back and play at some point, but that never happened, or when it did, even though the problems you had were fixed, not many people want to jump on board of a 2 year old train.

 

I can honestly say I've never quit an MMO because of bugs...wait, not true. I did stop playing Roma Victor (which none of you have ever heard of I'm sure) because of bugs...and a general lack of completion.

 

Here's what causes me to quit MMOs: Developers using my subscription money to focus on Raiding or PvP at the expense of content I enjoy..namely small group and solo play; developers introducing stupid, mind-numbing grinds; developers completely changing the game (aka SWG-NGE); the game actually stops being fun.

 

Those are the only causes for me.

[HeavensAgent]

I am simply stating, that when people post a negative topic on this game, the fanboys jump out of the bushes screaming "Yeah this game has bugs, all games do". Yes they are right, but most other games would have fixed their problems by now or suffered the same fate we are suffering now in this community. Sure some games have semi-bounced back, but most stay barren, or go free to play, or get taken over by another company who attempts to fix the problems....

Well, you just invalidated your entire statement with this paragraph alone.

 

Most games have not fixed their bugs and launch ills by this point in their lifespan, including successful titles. Including the most successful title in this industry's history; WoW was still fixing basic launch bugs well into its second year. Blizzard has still failed to address a number of launch bugs to this day.

 

The simple fact is that you are blowing the issues well out of proportion. Very, very few games die out as a result of bugs. In fact, I can't think of a single title that has. You'll probably dismiss me as a "fanboi," but my observations are based in historical record. Interestingly, the assertions you make here demonstrate the very fanaticism and blind faith that is attributed to the term. Perhaps you should evaluate the validity of your own statements and attempt to view them objectively; try to find evidence supporting your claims, because right now they are nothing more than opinion and rumor.

[Myshkyn]

Here's what causes me to quit MMOs: Developers using my subscription money to focus on Raiding or PvP at the expense of content I enjoy..namely small group and solo play; developers introducing stupid, mind-numbing grinds; developers completely changing the game (aka SWG-NGE); the game actually stops being fun.

 

You just described 95% of all the patches and tweaks that Blizzard has done for WoW.

[ZaRree]

I hear so much about these bugs all the time.

 

I have 3 50s, "I" have encounter very few of these bugs and most are fixable by resetting UI or restarting client.

Though i've not played any ops, so i don't know if there are a lot of bugs there, but i've leveled quite a few characters and i really can't see these bugs.

[ConradLionhart]

Bugs are something you should expect in MMOs. There is no magic wand that you can wave that will automatically remove all bugs.

[Dext]

I am tired of seeing the same argument. "Game XYZ had bugs too, their servers were down for 3 whole days!". "Such and such had a bug where you couldn't alt tab without crashing". yadda yadda....

 

Your right, tons of other MMOs had bugs. And tons of other MMOs failed because of those bugs.

 

The list of Truly Failed MMO's is small. People think just because a MMO is not hitting a Millions of suber's it is a failed game. MMO's like Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Matrix online and APB all shutdown and there truly Failed MMO's, there is also SWG but it did last 8 years an that is not a bad run. Also there is now APB Reloaded but that did not happen to it failed first under another company.

[Devlonir]

I always say: the bugs of today, are the stories of the future you share with 'newbs' about the fun you had in the past before they even started playing the game.

 

I bring forward the case of Captain Placeholder:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Captain_Placeholder

 

[Spankyjnco]

Well, you just invalidated your entire statement with this paragraph alone.

 

Most games have not fixed their bugs and launch ills by this point in their lifespan, including successful titles. Including the most successful title in this industry's history; WoW was still fixing basic launch bugs well into its second year. Blizzard has still failed to address a number of launch bugs to this day.

 

The simple fact is that you are blowing the issues well out of proportion. Very, very few games die out as a result of bugs. In fact, I can't think of a single title that has. You'll probably dismiss me as a "fanboi," but my observations are based in historical record. Interestingly, the assertions you make here demonstrate the very fanaticism and blind faith that is attributed to the term. Perhaps you should evaluate the validity of your own statements and attempt to view them objectively; try to find evidence supporting your claims, because right now they are nothing more than opinion and rumor.

 

So please tell me why this game is in the middle stages of dying out? It isn't because of content, there actually is quite a bit of that. What could it be I wonder...?

[Myshkyn]

I always say: the bugs of today, are the stories of the future you share with 'newbs' about the fun you had in the past before they even started playing the game.

 

I bring forward the case of Captain Placeholder:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Captain_Placeholder

 

 

Just a quick footnote.

A little research says that WoW dropped for the first time in November 2004, but this particular glitch wasn't fixed until April 2005. FIVE MONTHS.

And I'll be people on the WoW forums were blowing a collective gasket, too.

[Vankris]

7 years MMO still have bugs.

 

I swear, at least 1/3 of our wipes on Heroic Zon'ozz are due to the bug of the ball stop moving for no apparent reason.

falling from madness plate-forme, getting some invisible killer on blackhorn encounter, huge loss of FPS on ultraxion, DK tank getting crit despite having the talent that makes him crit immune.

 

Bugs happen.

[Devlonir]

Just a quick footnote.

A little research says that WoW dropped for the first time in November 2004, but this particular glitch wasn't fixed until April 2005. FIVE MONTHS.

And I'll be people on the WoW forums were blowing a collective gasket, too.

 

Heh.. if we are talking records:

The famous Mage bug with the spell Blink (where using it would NOT teleport you as needed and sometimes even teleport you backwards) is still not fixed in the current WoW build while it was reported in beta.

 

So please, don't tell me about game break bugs considering I played a game I loved for many years with my main character having a bug like that in one of it's main abilities.

[Devlonir]

So please tell me why this game is in the middle stages of dying out? It isn't because of content, there actually is quite a bit of that. What could it be I wonder...?

 

Tell me, where are your subscription numbers to proove this fact?

 

Fun fact nr 3: There will be a report done by EA today in which SWTOR subscriptions will actually be part of the report. So we may all know which side of the fence is true here, the 'dying' or the 'still healthy' crew.

[Myshkyn]

So please tell me why this game is in the middle stages of dying out? It isn't because of content, there actually is quite a bit of that. What could it be I wonder...?

 

Its simple. People expected this to be World of Star Warscraft. They expected perfection right out of the gate. They expected to have LFG and LFR stuff right out of the gate. They expected to go out and kick Darth Arthas' *** in a week, then take on his master, Darth Deathwing. They wanted to make a kickass worg--...excuse me...wookie and call him Chewbacca, or XxchewbaccaxX or something similar. They wanted to make a gobl--...pardon me...Jawa so they could run around screaming "UTINNI FOR THE HORDE!"

They wanted World of Star Warscraft.

 

They got Star Wars. Basic...vanilla...just starting out...Star Wars.

 

Boy....some people would complain if their ice cream was cold.

[Devlonir]

Boy....some people would complain if their ice cream was cold.

Fun fact nr 4: McDonalds once lost a lawsuit because a customer complained their coffee was served hot.

 

(ok ok, to be honest: it was because it was too hot and spilling it on his legs while driving his car burned his skin through his pants)

[kiddeth]

I am tired of seeing the same argument. "Game XYZ had bugs too, their servers were down for 3 whole days!". "Such and such had a bug where you couldn't alt tab without crashing". yadda yadda....

 

Your right, tons of other MMOs had bugs. And tons of other MMOs failed because of those bugs.

 

Sever MMO's had bugs, but small MINOR bugs like a graphical error here, or the wrong text there. Most bugs were corrected within a week of being found. Let's check on star wars' bugs.

 

There is still over 50 bugs that I reported IN BETA that are still around today. That's a lot.

 

Every patch, something else breaks not even relating to the patch notes.

 

Soa is still buggy. The VERY FIRST operations end boss.. How is that even possible?

 

Tons of quests either failing to update, or not letting me talk to whom I need to talk to, forcing me to reset is still an issue, most of them require me to be in a group, which is very rare in this game, but it is still around.

 

The list could go on for days....

 

Server status is fine, that was a good job by them, but You have a shiny pair of wheels on a beat up car, and it still looks like crap.Customer Service.. a joke. Player to Developer interaction? Scripted.

 

So yeah, most MMO's when they launch do have bugs, a small glitch that prevents you from completing one quest, or an issue where an NPC won't trigger an event or something along those lines, Look at the patch notes since launch and see how many bugs have been fixed. Then think about the amount of bugs that have shown up after they fixed bugs that weren't relating to them.

 

Remember when 1.2 dropped and you couldn't log out of the game? Awesome. Replies.. those are still broken, minor tweaks seem to be made every update, yet nothing is said about it in the patch notes.

 

Imperial Agent cover system was broke for about 2 weeks after 1.2, and slowly it's been getting better/patched here and there, with no mention of it at all.

 

So yeah, look at the HUGE list of bug fixes, then realise that is probably a fraction of what has had to be fixed and caused by the company themselves. They cause more bugs than fix in my opinion.

 

 

all I get out of this post is no one listens to me no matter how loud my tantrum is.

[haliy]

Remember when 1.2 dropped and you couldn't log out of the game? Awesome. Replies.. those are still broken, minor tweaks seem to be made every update, yet nothing is said about it in the patch notes.

 

Remember when 1.2 dropped and the patch after that reverted the game back to 1.1.5 and everyone in the fleet was saying "did they move the guild banks?" because they didn't know yet...

 

Ahh yes... good times. good times

[Jenzali]

Barring graphical glitches, I haven't actually encountered many game-affecting bugs in SWTOR. It's doing great for a new MMO.

 

Take the Dragon Soul "World of Warcraft" raid, for instance. It has been out nearly SIX months now and still contains what would be considered game-breaking bugs, and yet no one bats an eyelash. We just deal with it and move along.

 

The fight I'm mainly talking about is Warmaster Blackhorn. On heroic mode, fires start appearing on the deck. They are supposed to go away when extinguished by friendly NPC's, however most of the time the fire simply does not go away, until the entire deck of the ship is literally all fire, meaning there's no where safe to stand and we end up dying.

 

Considering the sheer number of people that clear that raid every week, "you would think" that the bug would have been fixed by now.

 

Get used to it. MMO's are such massive and complex worlds that bugs are inevitable, and fixing them is potentially incredibly difficult.

 

Edit: And yes, the long-standing Mage Blink bug has been there for 7 years.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Jenzali

[kiddeth]

Fun fact nr 4: McDonalds once lost a lawsuit because a customer complained their coffee was served hot.

 

(ok ok, to be honest: it was because it was too hot and spilling it on his legs while driving his car burned his skin through his pants)

 

 

It was an older lady and the coffee was 180 degrees. resulting in 3rd degree burns. the cause was the coffee maker had a malfunction.