Darth Vader vs. Darth Malgus

[thewhitebeaner]

I do not know if this has been posted already, but this is a question that has been burning in my head,

and I want opinions: who would win in a lightsaber duel between Darth Vader and Darth Malgus. I want to

make it clear that there will be no use of the force here so Malgus won't be able to use Lightning on Vader

and kill him like Sidious. This is a duel of who's anger and hatred is supreme.

 

 

Have fun!

[Rhyltran]

I do not know if this has been posted already, but this is a question that has been burning in my head,

and I want opinions: who would win in a lightsaber duel between Darth Vader and Darth Malgus. I want to

make it clear that there will be no use of the force here so Malgus won't be able to use Lightning on Vader

and kill him like Sidious. This is a duel of who's anger and hatred is supreme.

 

 

Have fun!

 

Vader would win even if Malgus could use the force and force lightning. You're making it far too easy for one of the best saber masters in the history of star wars.

[grandmthethird]

Vader would win even if Malgus could use the force and force lightning. You're making it far too easy for one of the best saber masters in the history of star wars.

 

this ^^

 

malgus might be my fav sith, but vader would win hands down. malgus could use the force, and vader would win hands down.

[Rayla_Felana]

[GreySix]

Even if the other cat used force lightning, Vader could absorb it with his light saber. Other than force lightning, Vader's Dark Side force abilities are impressive.

[Lewisgil]

Vader is my original favorite character but, I'm not going to just blythely say Vader would win in a straight lightsaber duel. From the looks of Malgus from all of the trailers, the novel Deception, and from the game, he is every bit as accomplished a lightsaber duelist as Vader ever was. Restricting his use of Force Powers would only make this a fair and most likely evenly matched duel.

 

To answer one of the OP's questions, this match up has taken place, pre-launch so therefore, the thread that lasted more than 100 pages has long since been removed from our access.

 

Malgus is meant to be the Vader of this time. He is actually depicted as, to those who read into all of the descriptions of Malgus, what Vader would have been had he remained entirely organic, maybe not AS powerful as Vader may have become but, a fair representation of what Vader would have looked like.

 

Malgus is depicted as being slightly taller than Vader, physically imposing as Vader was, and capable of battering down his opponents' defenses as Vader did. His size did nothing to impede his agility nor his speed. In Deception, he displays some feats Vader would have been impressed with even before being dismembered and placed in his suit.

 

Without the use of Force Powers, the fight could go either way. With the use of them, the fight would definitely be tipped in Malgus' favor.

[Rhyltran]

Vader is my original favorite character but, I'm not going to just blythely say Vader would win in a straight lightsaber duel. From the looks of Malgus from all of the trailers, the novel Deception, and from the game, he is every bit as accomplished a lightsaber duelist as Vader ever was. Restricting his use of Force Powers would only make this a fair and most likely evenly matched duel.

 

To answer one of the OP's questions, this match up has taken place, pre-launch so therefore, the thread that lasted more than 100 pages has long since been removed from our access.

 

Malgus is meant to be the Vader of this time. He is actually depicted as, to those who read into all of the descriptions of Malgus, what Vader would have been had he remained entirely organic, maybe not AS powerful as Vader may have become but, a fair representation of what Vader would have looked like.

 

Malgus is depicted as being slightly taller than Vader, physically imposing as Vader was, and capable of battering down his opponents' defenses as Vader did. His size did nothing to impede his agility nor his speed. In Deception, he displays some feats Vader would have been impressed with even before being dismembered and placed in his suit.

 

Without the use of Force Powers, the fight could go either way. With the use of them, the fight would definitely be tipped in Malgus' favor.

 

This is incorrect. Strength isn't always dependent on size in Star Wars. Vader was immeasurably strong in the force and used the force to enhance his blows. Just as Yoda could push back someone much bigger than himself. This being said, size and muscle does have some to do with it but aiding a person through the force can tip things as well. Vader had inhuman strength thanks to his suit. It increased his physical strength several times and the use of the force only amplified this.

 

Vader is also extremely resistant to force lightning thanks to his suit. His resistance is beyond most other mortals. This is shown and explained in the force unleashed, explained in the novels. It was Sidious force lightning that put Vader down. Vader's strength in the force rivals what we've seen from Galen Marek which is nothing short of impressive. Galen Marek is a very agile foe but even with such agility he was only about on par with Darth Vader himself. Just because malgus is the "Vader" of his time period doesn't mean he's equal to Vader. Just that he fits a somewhat similar role.

 

The Sith Warrior class is also depicted to being like "vader." Vader has defeated multiple Jedi Masters at once. He's taken on over seven foes at the exact same time and came out on top. He defeated some of the best duelists against him using his saber techniques alone, not even bothering to use the force and he's managed to flip over Roahyn Shryne slashed at Vader's legs and Vader leapt over the blow, twisted in the air, and landed behind him. While much of his mobility is lost the extent to that is greatly exaggerated by most people.

 

He's taken multiple force lightning blasts from Galen Marek, who can destroy AT-ST's with his force lightning fry the people inside, and merely gets back up after being blasted, as the novel shows. Also, unlike Malgus, after Vader's defeat he usually fights calmly. Yes, he channels his rage but he doesn't lose his cool. He lets his opponent's wear themselves out before pushing the offensive and striking them down.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Rhyltran

[Wolfninjajedi]

This is incorrect. Strength isn't always dependent on size in Star Wars. Vader was immeasurably strong in the force and used the force to enhance his blows. Just as Yoda could push back someone much bigger than himself. This being said, size and muscle does have some to do with it but aiding a person through the force can tip things as well. Vader had inhuman strength thanks to his suit. It increased his physical strength several times and the use of the force only amplified this.

 

Vader is also extremely resistant to force lightning thanks to his suit. His resistance is beyond most other mortals. This is shown and explained in the force unleashed, explained in the novels. It was Sidious force lightning that put Vader down. Vader's strength in the force rivals what we've seen from Galen Marek which is nothing short of impressive. Galen Marek is a very agile foe but even with such agility he was only about on par with Darth Vader himself. Just because malgus is the "Vader" of his time period doesn't mean he's equal to Vader. Just that he fits a somewhat similar role.

 

The Sith Warrior class is also depicted to being like "vader." Vader has defeated multiple Jedi Masters at once. He's taken on over seven foes at the exact same time and came out on top. He defeated some of the best duelists against him using his saber techniques alone, not even bothering to use the force and he's managed to flip over Roahyn Shryne slashed at Vader's legs and Vader leapt over the blow, twisted in the air, and landed behind him. While much of his mobility is lost the extent to that is greatly exaggerated by most people.

 

He's taken multiple force lightning blasts from Galen Marek, who can destroy AT-AT's with his force lightning fry the people inside, and merely gets back up after being blasted, as the novel shows. Also, unlike Malgus, after Vader's defeat he usually fights calmly. Yes, he channels his rage but he doesn't lose his cool. He lets his opponent's wear themselves out before pushing the offensive and striking them down.

 

You mean AT-STs?....Don't remember any AT-ATs being in there. Unless I missed something.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Rhyltran]

You mean AT-STs?....Don't remember any AT-ATs being in there. Unless I missed something.

 

AT-ST my mistake.

[Lewisgil]

This is incorrect. Strength isn't always dependent on size in Star Wars. Vader was immeasurably strong in the force and used the force to enhance his blows. Just as Yoda could push back someone much bigger than himself. This being said, size and muscle does have some to do with it but aiding a person through the force can tip things as well. Vader had inhuman strength thanks to his suit. It increased his physical strength several times and the use of the force only amplified this.

 

Vader is also extremely resistant to force lightning thanks to his suit. His resistance is beyond most other mortals. This is shown and explained in the force unleashed, explained in the novels. It was Sidious force lightning that put Vader down. Vader's strength in the force rivals what we've seen from Galen Marek which is nothing short of impressive. Galen Marek is a very agile foe but even with such agility he was only about on par with Darth Vader himself. Just because malgus is the "Vader" of his time period doesn't mean he's equal to Vader. Just that he fits a somewhat similar role.

 

The Sith Warrior class is also depicted to being like "vader." Vader has defeated multiple Jedi Masters at once. He's taken on over seven foes at the exact same time and came out on top. He defeated some of the best duelists against him using his saber techniques alone, not even bothering to use the force and he's managed to flip over Roahyn Shryne slashed at Vader's legs and Vader leapt over the blow, twisted in the air, and landed behind him. While much of his mobility is lost the extent to that is greatly exaggerated by most people.

 

He's taken multiple force lightning blasts from Galen Marek, who can destroy AT-ST's with his force lightning fry the people inside, and merely gets back up after being blasted, as the novel shows. Also, unlike Malgus, after Vader's defeat he usually fights calmly. Yes, he channels his rage but he doesn't lose his cool. He lets his opponent's wear themselves out before pushing the offensive and striking them down.

 

Vader's cybernetics, as well as his artificial life support system, made him much more vulnerable to the damaging effects of Force lightning. This vulnerability would eventually contribute to his death.

 

You can find that quote on the Wookieepedia page for Force Lightning.

 

Also, why do you seem to think Malgus does not have Force Augmented strength as well as being extremely strong due to his physical size? In the novel Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, he states that his cybernetics allowed him to do things that he was already capable of doing previously just by using the Force to augment his strength. That leads me to believe that he doesn't rely on the Force to augment his strength as much with his cybernetics.

 

Regardless of all that, Luke was able to match Vader's strength in Return of the Jedi, which leads me to believe someone such as Malgus or Bane would be able to at least do the same.

 

When you see Malgus in action, whether in the trailers, or in Deceived, he is depicted as dominating his opponents physically every bit as much as Vader ever has been. I don't see why so many people have a dislike for Malgus that clouds their judgment of his abilities. He is depicted as being Vaders equal when it comes to lightsaber dueling. Adding in his mastery of the Dark Side, he has the added bonus of Force Powers that Vader just could not use without outside assistance.

[Rayla_Felana]

You can find that quote on the Wookieepedia page for Force Lightning.

 

Actually he is right, Vader with a severed hand (again?) took Galen Marek's extremely powerful Force Lightning and the full power of two lightning Pylons, on KAMINO of all places and just knelt down, with steam coming off of him, about an hour later he seemed fine when Marek talked with him.

 

This debunks the idea that he has a weakness to Force Lightning, this was uncovered to be just an assumption, when he was killed by Darth Sidious, he was taking at point-blank range the most powerful Force Lightning ever, what is most impressive is that he picked up Sidious, threw him down the reactor shaft and managed to survive, unaided by his life-sustaining rage, and made it all the way from the Throne Room in the Observation tower, to the shuttle bay of the Death Star II, a moon-sized Battlestation.

 

Consider the fact Sidious' lightning could turn an entire room of enemies into ash, this is saying a lot.

[jarjarloves]

unless vader has pulse grenades Darth Malgus will win easily.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You can find that quote on the Wookieepedia page for Force Lightning.

 

Also, why do you seem to think Malgus does not have Force Augmented strength as well as being extremely strong due to his physical size? In the novel Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, he states that his cybernetics allowed him to do things that he was already capable of doing previously just by using the Force to augment his strength. That leads me to believe that he doesn't rely on the Force to augment his strength as much with his cybernetics.

 

Regardless of all that, Luke was able to match Vader's strength in Return of the Jedi, which leads me to believe someone such as Malgus or Bane would be able to at least do the same.

 

When you see Malgus in action, whether in the trailers, or in Deceived, he is depicted as dominating his opponents physically every bit as much as Vader ever has been. I don't see why so many people have a dislike for Malgus that clouds their judgment of his abilities. He is depicted as being Vaders equal when it comes to lightsaber dueling. Adding in his mastery of the Dark Side, he has the added bonus of Force Powers that Vader just could not use without outside assistance.

 

Except if you read about Darth Vader's armor, you will see that he made some modifications to it including resistant to force lighting.

 

Vader would attempt to compensate for this vulnerability to Force lightning by upgrading the armor with some sort of insulation, though this was only partial protection.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Lewisgil]

Actually he is right, Vader with a severed hand (again?) took Galen Marek's extremely powerful Force Lightning and the full power of two lightning Pylons, on KAMINO of all places and just knelt down, with steam coming off of him, about an hour later he seemed fine when Marek talked with him.

 

This debunks the idea that he has a weakness to Force Lightning, this was uncovered to be just an assumption, when he was killed by Darth Sidious, he was taking at point-blank range the most powerful Force Lightning ever, what is most impressive is that he picked up Sidious, threw him down the reactor shaft and managed to survive, unaided by his life-sustaining rage, and made it all the way from the Throne Room in the Observation tower, to the shuttle bay of the Death Star II, a moon-sized Battlestation.

 

Consider the fact Sidious' lightning could turn an entire room of enemies into ash, this is saying a lot.

 

I'm well aware of that. I own both of the Force Unleashed novels. I actually enjoyed the stories. However, if you actually read the quote I mentioned from Wookieepedia, it states that his Life Support and Cybernetics have the weakness to Force Lightning, I'm well aware that his suit was insulated.

 

One of the reasons I am stating all of this is pointed out in all of the encounters involving Galen or his Clone and Vader that involved Force Lightning. It was always enough to, if not bring him to his knees, daze Vader enough that he couldn't react during the onslaught of Force Lightning and shortly thereafter. Even with his suit being insulated, Force Lightning still had an effect on Vader upon which someone as ruthless in a fight as Malgus could capitalize.

 

Probably the scariest depiction of Malgus' use of Force Lightning, in my opinion, is in the Deceived novel during the Sacking of Coruscant. He unleashes a gout of Force Lightning upon a group of Jedi while enganged with another Jedi in a lightsaber duel. That use of Force Lightning was sufficient to instantly turn them into ash. I will have to go back and confirm but, I recall at least one of the Jedi killed in that was a Master.

[Rhyltran]

I'm well aware of that. I own both of the Force Unleashed novels. I actually enjoyed the stories. However, if you actually read the quote I mentioned from Wookieepedia, it states that his Life Support and Cybernetics have the weakness to Force Lightning, I'm well aware that his suit was insulated.

 

One of the reasons I am stating all of this is pointed out in all of the encounters involving Galen or his Clone and Vader that involved Force Lightning. It was always enough to, if not bring him to his knees, daze Vader enough that he couldn't react during the onslaught of Force Lightning and shortly thereafter. Even with his suit being insulated, Force Lightning still had an effect on Vader upon which someone as ruthless in a fight as Malgus could capitalize.

 

Probably the scariest depiction of Malgus' use of Force Lightning, in my opinion, is in the Deceived novel during the Sacking of Coruscant. He unleashes a gout of Force Lightning upon a group of Jedi while enganged with another Jedi in a lightsaber duel. That use of Force Lightning was sufficient to instantly turn them into ash. I will have to go back and confirm but, I recall at least one of the Jedi killed in that was a Master.

 

Sidious was able to turn masters to ash as well. Galen Marek can turn entire groups of enemies to ash with no problem either. Force lightning dazes just about anyone but rarely do we ever see a Sith able to unleash massive gouts of force lightning and able to move/slash while it's going on. There's really not enough information to state that Vader has no chance against Darth Malgus. Vader himself is very powerful and we've seen quite a few of his feats. We know he can take on many opponents at once in saber combat even if several of them are masters or accomplished duelists. We know his strength in the force rivals Galen Marek who is one of the most powerful force users in Star Wars.

[Lewisgil]

Sidious was able to turn masters to ash as well. Galen Marek can turn entire groups of enemies to ash with no problem either. Force lightning dazes just about anyone but rarely do we ever see a Sith able to unleash massive gouts of force lightning and able to move/slash while it's going on. There's really not enough information to state that Vader has no chance against Darth Malgus. Vader himself is very powerful and we've seen quite a few of his feats. We know he can take on many opponents at once in saber combat even if several of them are masters or accomplished duelists. We know his strength in the force rivals Galen Marek who is one of the most powerful force users in Star Wars.

 

Never did I say Vader would have no chance against Malgus. The only thing I ever said is that the two would be roughly even without the use of Force Powers and the scales would be tipped in Malgus' favor with the use of them. I'm not saying Malgus would automatically win, I'm only saying the odds would be in his favor. Underdogs win fights all the time.

 

EDIT: Also, the depiction of Malgus of which I spoke did show him dueling while he dispatched the other Jedi with Force Lightning. He killed them as if they were just flies buzzing around him while still dominating the lgihtsaber duel he was in at the same time. Kind of like how Vader choked that Padawan while dueling Cin Dralig at the same time.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Lewisgil

[generalskorge]

Darth Malgus would **** Darth Vader period.

[grandmthethird]

Darth Malgus would **** Darth Vader period.

 

you win first prize for the most eloquent argument. you have really given me alot to think about, and who knows maybe you have opened my eyes and changed my view. cudos to you:cool:

[corebit]

Malgus is just an uninspired clone of Malak.

Same bald head, same broken jaw and wearing a face support. But at least Malak had much more character and depth than Malgus.

And Vader has been voted one of the top film and game villains of all time, so no, not even close.

 

In terms of in-game strength, Malgus is just a good duelist, and quite a smart Sith compared to his peers (knows how to utilize resources to the Empire's advantage instead of just "Me Evil, Me Smash!", and is always respectful of powerful allies) However, in terms of accomplishments he pales compared to what Vader did, who almost single-handedly brought the Jedi order to near extinction.

 

Bioware dropped the ball this time when designing a memorable villain. There is really nothing memorable about Malgus other than receiving a lot of face time in SWTOR trailers and advertisements.

Edited June 4, 2012 by corebit

[Makoto_Shishio]

I'm well aware of that. I own both of the Force Unleashed novels. I actually enjoyed the stories. However, if you actually read the quote I mentioned from Wookieepedia, it states that his Life Support and Cybernetics have the weakness to Force Lightning, I'm well aware that his suit was insulated.

 

One of the reasons I am stating all of this is pointed out in all of the encounters involving Galen or his Clone and Vader that involved Force Lightning. It was always enough to, if not bring him to his knees, daze Vader enough that he couldn't react during the onslaught of Force Lightning and shortly thereafter. Even with his suit being insulated, Force Lightning still had an effect on Vader upon which someone as ruthless in a fight as Malgus could capitalize.

 

Probably the scariest depiction of Malgus' use of Force Lightning, in my opinion, is in the Deceived novel during the Sacking of Coruscant. He unleashes a gout of Force Lightning upon a group of Jedi while enganged with another Jedi in a lightsaber duel. That use of Force Lightning was sufficient to instantly turn them into ash. I will have to go back and confirm but, I recall at least one of the Jedi killed in that was a Master.

I didn't know wookiepedia is Canon considering actual canon source materials stated and depict Vader having unimaginable resistance to force lightning(watch the scripted scene of Marek combining his already overpowered lightning added with three massive pylons that amplified and combined his lightning with the skys lightning that all it did was bring Vader to one knee without even giving a scratch to his cloak).

 

Lets not forget how Vader was able to shield himself and with stand a blast of energy that destroyed part of the death star and killed every single storm trooper within that tower.

 

Would it be one hell of a fight? Yes it would be, Both these blokes has shown incredible endurance.

[ReiKai]

People keep confusing Vader's accomplishments for Sidious'. Vader didn't bring down the Jedi Order. Sid did with Order 66. Vader ended up as nothing more than a tool moved around by Sid. Malgus, however, had his own ideas and ambitions and he took them forward.

 

Also, Malgus is not a clone of Malak. Malgus' jaw isn't broken. He got burns from that pulse grenade and damage from Satele's HADOKEN!...I mean, force blast, forced him to use that respirator. However, as far anyone knows, the rest of Malgus' body is still Organic and he just wears armor for physical augmentation and defense. And people mentioned augmenting strength with the Force. Well, Malgus and just about anyone else can do that. Vader can't anymore, hence the cybernetics giving him strength on par with what he had via the Force before he got his limbs hacked off.

 

What did Vader really accomplish without Sid's direction? Almost nothing. Malgus, on the other hand, took control of resources, tricked the Empire, created his own power base and followers, and got people together to create greater technology behind the Empires's back and basically declared himself the new Emperor. The man was a beast and he did more on his own initiative than Vader ever did.

[Wolfninjajedi]

People keep confusing Vader's accomplishments for Sidious'. Vader didn't bring down the Jedi Order. Sid did with Order 66. Vader ended up as nothing more than a tool moved around by Sid. Malgus, however, had his own ideas and ambitions and he took them forward.

 

Also, Malgus is not a clone of Malak. Malgus' jaw isn't broken. He got burns from that pulse grenade and damage from Satele's HADOKEN!...I mean, force blast, forced him to use that respirator. However, as far anyone knows, the rest of Malgus' body is still Organic and he just wears armor for physical augmentation and defense. And people mentioned augmenting strength with the Force. Well, Malgus and just about anyone else can do that. Vader can't anymore, hence the cybernetics giving him strength on par with what he had via the Force before he got his limbs hacked off.

 

What did Vader really accomplish without Sid's direction? Almost nothing. Malgus, on the other hand, took control of resources, tricked the Empire, created his own power base and followers, and got people together to create greater technology behind the Empires's back and basically declared himself the new Emperor. The man was a beast and he did more on his own initiative than Vader ever did.

 

Well technically Vader did bring down the jedi order, he attacked the temple where there was a large number of jedi that if left unchecked could become a threat and as Sidious put it "it will be a civil war without end". While Sidious eliminated, several jedi masters and other jedi around the galaxy that wasn't the entire jedi order in full. So it was more both Sidious and Vader that brought down the jedi order, and Vader did it better.

 

He had just a legion of clones, whereas Malgus had sith lords, a bounty hunter and sith troopers with him.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[ReiKai]

That was mostly Younglings in the Temple that remained. He only killed them because Sid told him to. Sid had been stringing him along for years. And after he -thought- he killed Padme, he had no reason to live for and just gave himself up to Sid completely after that. Vader was a puppet who only cut his strings at the very end of his life to save Luke. Malgus made his decisions firm after the Sacking of Courscant. He eliminated his rivals and set about his own plans to change and control the Empire.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Mostly younglings?......Ok, so where is that proof?

[ReiKai]

I watched the movie. I didn't see him doing glorious battle. I saw him being Emo, telling the kids to close their eyes before killing them. In the end, Vader didn't break the Jedi Order. He was just one of several tools Sid used to do so.

 

What did Malgus do? Brought the Empire to its senses. You screw around and someone like him will mess you over.

 

Now then, people are focusing on Military accomplishments instead of their overall abilities, which is the only thing that matters in a 1v1 fight. They're both strong in the Force, that's not in question. Both are offensive melee fighters. Vader had to revise his style to compensate for his lesser mobility and Malgus had to deal with stronger figures than Vader had to, save maybe Galen Marek. Vader mainly uses TK, Malgus has that plus Force Lightning. In terms of battle experience, they're both roughly the same age. Malgus may have started training a few years earlier, but that's not enough to give an edge in overall experience.