Please Do Not Nerf Lost Island. A Rational View.

[hulkweazel]

Show me a group that's half tionese half columi (and thus actually gets use out of the columi drops) that clears this instance. If it's "mostly columi" then most of the loot is wasted, and that's disregarding the fact that the only people who I've talked to who think the difficulty is acceptable are almost completely geared in rakata. That means the tuning is wrong. It should be reasonably doable by people in columi/tionese gear because it rewards almost all columi.

You still don't understand how progression works (Despite you changing "mostly Tionese" to "Half Tionese half Columi". You're not supposed to get something useful from every drop. People don't care about the Tionese drops from other HMs. They care about the Columi drop at the end or finishing their daily/weekly. Same thing with LI. People finish it for the Rakata chest and finishing the weekly. Because it drops the next tier up, it's meant for people in mostly Columi working on Rakata.

 

In any case, the reason people find it easy in full Rakata has nothing to do with the gear, because if you actually looked at the stats, the difference is very small, and in addition to that, the flashpoint itself is not very gear dependent at all. The reason why full Rakata players find it easy is because they tend to be the ones who have EV/KP HM on farm mode, and they tend to have enough experience to understand how to coordinate well with others and how a lot of game mechanics work.

 

It's not overtuned, it's just the first instance that really punishes players for ignoring game mechanics. Taking unnecessary damage =/= being overtuned.

Edited May 3, 2012 by hulkweazel

[Enderet]

Dont nerf it, dont change the loot drops.

 

This is the perfect difficulty and I hope other HM FPs continue at this tier.

 

My group clears it in approximately 30 minutes.

[Niil]

You still don't understand how progression works (Despite you changing "mostly Tionese" to "Half Tionese half Columi". You're not supposed to get something useful from every drop. People don't care about the Tionese drops from other HMs. They care about the Columi drop at the end or finishing their daily/weekly. Same thing with LI. People finish it for the Rakata chest and finishing the weekly. Because it drops the next tier up, it's meant for people in mostly Columi working on Rakata.

 

In any case, the reason people find it easy in full Rakata has nothing to do with the gear, because if you actually looked at the stats, the difference is very small, and in addition to that, the flashpoint itself is not very gear dependent at all. The reason why full Rakata players find it easy is because they tend to be the ones who have EV/KP HM on farm mode, and they tend to have enough experience to understand how to coordinate well with others and how a lot of game mechanics work.

 

It's not overtuned, it's just the first instance that really punishes players for ignoring game mechanics. Taking unnecessary damage =/= being overtuned.

 

You still avoided answering my question. I changed it to address your claim (which again I don't feel is accurate either, but I figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt on that one because it's just semantics). The tangent about stat differences is silly and I honestly don't feel like teaching you basic math so you understand it. Show me a group of people who can use the columi (all of them, not people being carried) that are successfully clearing the instance. It's exactly the same issue with Story EC. People clearing Story EV & KP who are not doing Hard/Nightmare EV & KP are not clearing Story EC. If you can't show me a group of people who can actually use the rewards that are dropping (all of them, not just the last boss) then don't bother responding to me. Because that's exactly why I will not waste my time (even on characters that need the rakata chest). I have no intention of going in on a character, devoting about 45 mins to an hour and having a 1 in 4 chance of getting something that I need while the rest of the loot rots or is vendored. Even still, your claim is the instance isn't gear reliant, so show me a group in full tionese doing it. I mean gear isn't a big deal right? It's all player skill and avoiding circles of fire, right? Unless you're just talking out your back side.

 

Either way, I'm adding my opinion to a thread on the subject. I disagree with the OP. You can't "prove" anything as it's a subjective discussion. I don't run H LI on my main even for the black hole commendations. In a month from now I'll be swimming in them with nothing to use them on. I don't run it on my 50 alts either, because I don't find the time investment worth the reward. I stated why. Your acceptance of my opinion isn't required. You're agreement isn't required. You're not going to convince me I should be investing my time doing it because you think it's okay, because I don't care whether you think it's worth it or not.

 

Feel free to actually show me the tons of people out there who are clearing the instance in tionese/columi. Not a single person in this thread that stated they liked the difficulty clarified how geared they are. Because almost every single one of them is probably in a mix of columi/rakata and are either doing it for the rakata chest or the daily commendations. Which means the loot on every single boss except for the last one is a waste, with the possibility that the loot from the entire instance is a waste. If that works as a motivator for you, congrats. It does not for me. It does not for anyone I play with. In fact, I don't know a single person who will run this instance more than once a week for the weekly and I know more than a few that have never run it and have no intention of running it.

 

Granted, this was before changes they made to it, but it's not the difficulty that bothers me. It's a combination of the difficulty and the lack of worthwhile rewards for doing it. I can easily join a pug hard EV or KP, spend 30 minutes more than running LI and get decked in Rakata in one session. I've done it now on 2 different alts post 1.2 release. And these aren't even guild runs. I just can't fathom why people would devote the time to LI when better rewards can be gained in pug ops for only a marginal increase in time investment.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Niil

[Scraddog]

So LI hard mode.

 

We went and had a look on patch day and worked out the mechanics of the first boss which took us a few attempts then time was against us so we had to leave it with him at 8% which was heartbreaking.

 

Next attempt we cleared the place including the optional boss with a partly columni geared healer which got a bit scary and hectic, This took us three hours roughly and was fun.

 

Next attempt with the same team took us an hour including the bonus boss.

 

We can now clear the place in 45mins not doing the bonus boss and we run it at least once a week if not more.

 

Our team consists of a jugger tank, marauder, Sorc healer and sorc dps, we have switched out the healer with an operative healer and the sorc dps with a sniper and have pretty much the same results these days.

 

Once you know what you are doing and everyone is on-board with the plan composition of the teams dps really should not make that much difference. The difficulty of the place is fine but agreed the tionese crystal drops are a bit meh and the boss drops are cool for gearing up people which we have done twice combined with other FP's.

 

No it's not an elitist place you just a place where you need to not be asleep and play better than in the other hard modes.

[hulkweazel]

You still avoided answering my question. I changed it to address your claim (which again I don't feel is accurate either, but I figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt on that one because it's just semantics). The tangent about stat differences is silly and I honestly don't feel like teaching you basic math so you understand it. Show me a group of people who can use the columi (all of them, not people being carried) that are successfully clearing the instance. It's exactly the same issue with Story EC. People clearing Story EV & KP who are not doing Hard/Nightmare EV & KP are not clearing Story EC.

Sigh. There are people. Doesn't matter if there is "proof" that comes up, you will ignore them. Just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean no one can.

If you can't show me a group of people who can actually use the rewards that are dropping (all of them, not just the last boss) then don't bother responding to me.

So if people don't follow your idealized and biased views on how loot should drop, we shouldn't respond? LOL.

Because that's exactly why I will not waste my time (even on characters that need the rakata chest). I have no intention of going in on a character, devoting about 45 mins to an hour and having a 1 in 4 chance of getting something that I need while the rest of the loot rots or is vendored. Even still, your claim is the instance isn't gear reliant, so show me a group in full tionese doing it. I mean gear isn't a big deal right? It's all player skill and avoiding circles of fire, right? Unless you're just talking out your back side.

Straw man argument. I said it's not that gear dependent, that doesn't mean there is absolutely no gear requirement. You are trying to argue that it's only easy for full Rakata players, when you're missing the fact that full Rakata players tend to be more experienced in working in a group. I'm sorry that you can't just faceroll your way through LI and heal through mechanics like you could in other FPs, but yes, you do have to pay attention.

 

Either way, I'm adding my opinion to a thread on the subject. I disagree with the OP. You can't "prove" anything as it's a subjective discussion. I don't run H LI on my main even for the black hole commendations. In a month from now I'll be swimming in them with nothing to use them on. I don't run it on my 50 alts either, because I don't find the time investment worth the reward. I stated why. Your acceptance of my opinion isn't required. You're agreement isn't required. You're not going to convince me I should be investing my time doing it because you think it's okay, because I don't care whether you think it's worth it or not.

Okay. So if you don't care if anyone agrees with you and you refuse to listen to other arguments, why are you here?

Feel free to actually show me the tons of people out there who are clearing the instance in tionese/columi. Not a single person in this thread that stated they liked the difficulty clarified how geared they are. Because almost every single one of them is probably in a mix of columi/rakata and are either doing it for the rakata chest or the daily commendations. Which means the loot on every single boss except for the last one is a waste, with the possibility that the loot from the entire instance is a waste. If that works as a motivator for you, congrats. It does not for me. It does not for anyone I play with. In fact, I don't know a single person who will run this instance more than once a week for the weekly and I know more than a few that have never run it and have no intention of running it.

...sigh. Again. Players in full rakata tend to have an easier time because they know how to deal with mechanics. I've seen full Rakata players struggle through it as well, and that's because they were the players getting carried through Operations. I've also seen full Columi or less players have no problems with it, because they are experienced with dealing with mechanics but just have been unlucky with drops.

Granted, this was before changes they made to it, but it's not the difficulty that bothers me. It's a combination of the difficulty and the lack of worthwhile rewards for doing it. I can easily join a pug hard EV or KP, spend 30 minutes more than running LI and get decked in Rakata in one session. I've done it now on 2 different alts post 1.2 release. And these aren't even guild runs. I just can't fathom why people would devote the time to LI when better rewards can be gained in pug ops for only a marginal increase in time investment.

No, you can't "easily" join a pug HM EV or KP. The reason why LI is slightly harder for its reward is because it only takes a group of four instead of eight, and because you can run it as much as you want in a week while you get locked out of Operations.

 

From the looks of your arguments, it IS the difficulty, which, in a nutshell, is "I can't do this FP so it must be overtuned".

Edited May 3, 2012 by hulkweazel

[Fraeblood]

This FP has become a decent recruiting measure for our OPs group. The first boss and well most of the bosses have such great mechanics that it shows to a pretty close degree how people will react in raids. Which is one reason that it is by far the best FP to date.

It is so rare that developers create new 4 or 5 man content that can give the high end raiders a place to go and have fun and challenge them to a degree.

Keep up these FP and you will see a lot of the Ops community playing more then the 3-4 hours 3-4 days a week that most of us do.

[Niil]

<removed all the text that is meaningless in context of the discussion> ... From the looks of your arguments, it IS the difficulty, which, in a nutshell, is "I can't do this FP so it must be overtuned".

 

Both the start and end of your post say the same thing (the above). Both of them are incorrect. That information was already provided in my previous posts. What you just did was strawmanned my argument, which is rather ironic because you went on a tangent about fallacies while actually engaging in those same fallacies you were trying to say I was engaging in. You do realize that in doing so you make it very apparent that you're not actually looking to have a discussion and are instead just trolling, don't you? I had you on ignore before this thread, I removed you to see what you had to say on the subject. I think it's apparent you're not worth the time it takes to post a response to. Welcome back to my ignore list.

[Valtrim]

This FP has become a decent recruiting measure for our OPs group. The first boss and well most of the bosses have such great mechanics that it shows to a pretty close degree how people will react in raids. Which is one reason that it is by far the best FP to date.

It is so rare that developers create new 4 or 5 man content that can give the high end raiders a place to go and have fun and challenge them to a degree.

Keep up these FP and you will see a lot of the Ops community playing more then the 3-4 hours 3-4 days a week that most of us do.

 

QFT. Mechanics that reward coordination and quick thinking (and punish lack thereof) are awesome.

[hulkweazel]

Both the start and end of your post say the same thing (the above). Both of them are incorrect. That information was already provided in my previous posts. What you just did was strawmanned my argument, which is rather ironic because you went on a tangent about fallacies while actually engaging in those same fallacies you were trying to say I was engaging in. You do realize that in doing so you make it very apparent that you're not actually looking to have a discussion and are instead just trolling, don't you? I had you on ignore before this thread, I removed you to see what you had to say on the subject. I think it's apparent you're not worth the time it takes to post a response to. Welcome back to my ignore list.

LOL. Basically, "I don't like views different from mine so I'm going to ignore them". Even funnier that you even SAY you're going to ignore me, as if it's important that you have to point that out

 

Good riddance, really.

Edited May 4, 2012 by hulkweazel

[Aristile]

I don't understand some people. Why do you want gear handed to you to make the game easier when there already are story modes for you people? If the dungeon requires ~columi gear then it should reward columi gear (FFS if you're coming in here from hard modes like FE and Kaon the gear drops in here are perfect for you). You do not need full columi to beat this dungeon, just attentiveness and a group of friends who can work together. I did this place with 3 other friends and we all had some columi and mostly tionese. Not only that, but we're far from the most phenomenal players. This place is perfectly tuned for those looking for a challenge. For those saying we're being selfish for wanting a challenge, I call you all hypocrites. What you're suggesting is that us oh so evil people who believe in the progression curve should have ZERO SMALL GROUP CONTENT, when you already have everything else in the game that's a flashpoint.

If anything they should BUFF the second boss so he's not such a cakewalk.

The logical progression curve exists in swtor for a reason, and that curve is the reason my friends are playing swtor over that other mmo.

[krinaman]

...sigh. Again. Players in full rakata tend to have an easier time because they know how to deal with mechanics. I've seen full Rakata players struggle through it as well, and that's because they were the players getting carried through Operations. I've also seen full Columi or less players have no problems with it, because they are experienced with dealing with mechanics but just have been unlucky with drops.

 

In other words the people clearing it don't need the gear and the people who do need the gear aren't clearing it. In other words, the place is pointless.

[Feverish]

LI HM is perfectly doable with ppl in crafted rakata/orange gear with mods and enhancements at 45+... I do it with a group who still need columi and first day took a long time learning it but after that we powered thru it within 50 minutes. The next few days this instance was out we reset and did it at least twice a day. A friend's Sniper who was less then 2 days old 50 was fully geared in Columi in less then a week. Pre 1.2 it took my Mercenary 5-6 days to be fully geared in columi, with the new capability to reset HM's and do them as much as you like with an instance like LI HM where you can get 4 columi pc's and 1 rakata from it... It has become ridiculously easy to get geared up for HM Ops.

[ubique]

Ok, after some more runs I just want to clear up the following things from my own perspective. Not only is gear an essential non-issue, aside from the DPS burn needed on the bonus boss, but it is pretty much a PUG-able instance assuming one or two members of the group know and can effectively describe the roles of any first-timers in the group. I know this because I did it, and the PUG'd healer was under-geared. When you reach the point of an occasional death during a 40-minute run in the flashpoint that is, for all intents and purposes, the most demanding four-man content per player in the game, you begin to truly realize the value of the farmable Rakata chest and Columi mainhand, to say nothing of the rare drops (Mysterious Egg, anyone?).

 

My initial opinion regarding this place is even more solidified now. Casual players can stay casual in...what's that place? Oh, right. Story mode. Go figure.

[Todsucher]

I run this place with Ubique about 2-3 times a day, it doesn't need to be nerfed. Not by a long shot, it's to the point now where we can carry a dps through to help them get geared with a Rakata chest piece and Columi mainhand. All that you really need as Ubi put it, is one or two people who can explain the fights and what to do completely.. and more importantly someone who can listen and follow instructions. Edited May 4, 2012 by Todsucher

[Ka-tel]

In other words the people clearing it don't need the gear and the people who do need the gear aren't clearing it. In other words, the place is pointless.

 

No it's not pointless. The Commendations alone make it worth it.

Plus... the challenge of accomplishing something that's not incredibly easy for once, maybe?

 

Why else do you play?

 

Go do story mode if you don't care about challenging content or black hole commendations.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Ka-tel

[Ka-tel]

played it twice myself. First was a normal mode run where we wiped at the droid once, the sav-rak a couple of times and at the bonus boss once as well.. We just had to figure out tacts, so that was expected.. I don't remember group setup.

 

2nd time we went in there it was a shadow tank, scoundrel healer and 2 sentinels as dps..

 

It was painfull, tacts for the droid and doctor we found online couldn't really be used, and we wiped quite a bit.. But after about 2 hours the instance had been cleared.. I'd say that's about perfect for a first run with supoptimal group composition, and we weren't totally overgeared.. We were all full columi with a few rakata pieces here and there.

 

The droid boss was hard due to the maneuvering with all this melee dps, but some decent healing got us through.. The doctor boss turned out to be fairly easy once you understand the satchel charges.

 

Perfect fp in hardmode.. Really good fun..

 

story mode. Go do story mode!

[Karkais]

Show me a group that's half tionese half columi (and thus actually gets use out of the columi drops) that clears this instance. If it's "mostly columi" then most of the loot is wasted, and that's disregarding the fact that the only people who I've talked to who think the difficulty is acceptable are almost completely geared in rakata. That means the tuning is wrong. It should be reasonably doable by people in columi/tionese gear because it rewards almost all columi.

 

I would say that one rakata chest at the end is a suitable reward, unfortunately that makes most of the other loot a 'filler'. Thats fine with me personally.

 

I havent even tried this HM, but my friends told me its really hard.. even so, I dont want its difficulty to be nerfed, I want more challenging things in the game for 4-player groups.

[Vankris]

There are 2 sort of people in the world, those who can complete lost island and those who can't

 

Those who can complete it, and do it so every week for the black hole commendation are just fine, they understand the mechanics of the fights, and do not wish to have it nerfed.

 

But those who can't complete the FP yet are the happiest of all. Those are the lucky ones that have truly a piece of PVE content they can make progress, they have something to look forward to. Enjoy while it last, you are in the pinnacle of the fun.

[Dhariq]

Please don't change it. If you change anything, perhaps add one (at most) Rakata drop from the 2nd-to-last boss or simply change the last boss to drop a random Rakata slot, not just chest.

 

I think something like these two suggestions would clearly end this whole issue and give this FP a solid place in the advancement path so to say. Then just add another hard one like this to bridge the tionese-rakata gap that you can do when you do not have enough for a raid or just need to get some new guy up to speed. Or just want to do something.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Dhariq

[Harey]

While agreeing with the OP and having completed the FP in hard mode each week now usually at least twice a week , i still think the FP is slighlty overtuned for LR-5 in respect to an all melee group .

 

Having completed the FP with a mix of ranged and melee the difference from a tanking perspective is perhaps the greatest i have seen , all ranged dps and healer - tank in mid , complete on first try every time

All melee dps and the fight becomes a lot more interesting..

 

The rest of the FP is relatively straight forward , Lorics satchel charge is a fun mechanic that can be totally avoided every time although to do this you need the sound to be working for the audio cue ( i dont know about everyone else but the sound in this game has become a buggy mess since 1,2 i.m.o)

 

With regard to the drops , I'd say they are about right although maybe an offhand rak piece would be appropriate for the bonus boss because as it sits there is no real reason to do him more than once the first time through.

 

I dont want the FP to be lowered in difficulty but I would like a mechanic added to even the playing field between ranged and melee groups,

[krinaman]

No it's not pointless. The Commendations alone make it worth it.

Plus... the challenge of accomplishing something that's not incredibly easy for once, maybe?

 

Why else do you play?

 

Go do story mode if you don't care about challenging content or black hole commendations.

 

Story mode is even more worthless than hardmode. Why would anyone bother short of seeing the place once?

 

Having already beat it in hard mode there isn't much of a sense of accomplishment to beat it again.

 

I play to have fun, I don't find wiping all night or sitting around all night spamming for a group fun.

[ubique]

Story mode is even more worthless than hardmode. Why would anyone bother short of seeing the place once?

 

Having already beat it in hard mode there isn't much of a sense of accomplishment to beat it again.

 

I play to have fun, I don't find wiping all night or sitting around all night spamming for a group fun.

 

Not sure about you, but as a guild's main tank I try and run this as many times as possible for guildies/friends to get their relics, Columi weapon, and Rakata chest...I'm still waiting to see if that large security box has anything to make killing the boss and clearing that room worth it.

[PolakToma]

This place isnt even hard, we find it easy, please do not nerf

[Maserdom]

Lost Island has to stay the way it is, for two simple reasons:

1) it is the ultimate noob filter: you can't drag your *** through it, and if you don't know how to hold a lightsaber in your hands, I'll see it in a matter of seconds. Kthxbye, better look for another player.

2) it is creating an infinite amount of free LOLs. I literally can't wait everyday to read Orange/Tionese geared players raging in /general that LI is too hard, and how they TOTALLY should get a Rakata chest for free. 'cause you know, man, they put it there, so it MUST be a joke to get it. I tend to check the people who are pugging LI HM in /general, and they're 90% of the times some poor half-greenies lads, drooling over a Rakata chest (duh, other players be so duuuumb, we clevah we get yummy uber gear for free).

 

Nothing is better than LI if you want to identify all the facerollers who feel entitled to one of the most sought after items pre-1.2. Two choices, my friends: either you realize LI is just a challenge for highly experienced players, or you can walk away and keep farming Taral V till you can build a castle with all those gloves.

 

Dear Bioware, please keep it as it is for, like, forever and ever.

[xZarquon]

Story mode is even more worthless than hardmode. Why would anyone bother short of seeing the place once?

 

Having already beat it in hard mode there isn't much of a sense of accomplishment to beat it again.

 

I play to have fun, I don't find wiping all night or sitting around all night spamming for a group fun.

 

I honestly don't understand the point of this post. There's this great aspect of this game you seem to be missing-Choice.

 

If you're not enjoying this flashpoint, then don't do it. As you've stated, you can get every piece of gear elsewhere. Even the black hole commendations are easy enough to get, it'll just take you longer to get them if you don't do the weekly. There are many of us who enjoy the challenge and/or can make use of the rewards. It's far from impossible...I pugged this FP the other day and cleared it in 40 mins with 3 randoms who had each done it once before. Yes, i'm in nearly full rakata, but I can still use the rakata chest. Or, maybe I want to farm this to get crit/surge mods from agent gear (as the difference between columi and rakata is small). I do agree the tionese crystals are silly, but i'm not going into LI in order to get the drops from the first 2 main bosses, just like when i take an alt through HM BT/BP/Foundry/etc it's not about anything but the columi drop at the end.

 

By your argument, once you have full rakata gear, there is no reason to do anything other than explosive conflict and NiM KP since well, you already have the gear, so running something from which you'd get more is pointless.