Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[chaosdefined]

I've been posting in this thread from the beginning and have not seen anything even close to this... I just re-skimmed it all and again, saw nothing to justify your comments...

 

While I agree with your premiss...(giving ultimatums to get your way is dumb/childish) it has no basis in this thread, so again... why are you posting this here?

 

Find a thread where there is some "stomping of your feet" type stuff and post it there?

 

Jus Sayin...

 

Quoted for truth.

 

He also claimed Gold Sellers will use Cross Server LFG to ruin the economy then refused to explain how, and his definition of a compromise was no Cross Server LFG and then insulted me when I called him up on how that wasn't what a compromise was.

 

Really, it's pot kettle black.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Parali
member edited own post, quote fixed

[Skirata_Kal]

I never said I belonged to the former group, lol, so you have no idea WHAT my opinion is.

That doesn't change anything (though Kudos for your craftiness, you win a debate star). You were still being insulting to one side and though I quoted your post there were more than one it applied to (I chose yours since you actually chose to bring maturity into it). Many of the anti-LFD people have done nothing but thrown insults to the pro-LFD people and many of the pro-xserver people have been quite mature with their posts so no, neither side has a corner on the maturity market.

 

 

Having said that, you have to admit that the stomp-your-feet, bratty "Do this BW, or I quit" is rather immature. I think we all agree on that. I may even agree with the reasons underlying their rage, but making childish blackmail threats is, well, childish.

 

If the person is jumping up and down, stomping on the ground and crying tears out while they say it, then yes, I'll agree that it's childish. As a paying customer, though, they have every right to inform the company that they're paying that if a certain service isn't provided that they'll take their business elsewhere (something I've done on a number of occasions IRL). Nothing immature about that. In fact, last I heard Bioware likes feedback. They have to take the negative with the positive and much of the negative has been constructive (and yes some has been given immaturely)

[Timesjoke]

I am personally all for a LFG tool, what I am against is a cross-server one. This was, to me anyway, the worst thing WoW could have done to its game. It took away your servers ability to police itself. People would queue with this, knowing that no matter how they acted or what they did in that group, they would still be able to get another group right after the one they were a dick in. To me, it promoted being a ******* in people that, normally, would not have acted like that if they only could group on their own server because they would know that, eventually, they would not be able to find a group.

 

You know, I keep seeing people like you make this claim but I have no idea where you get it from. I played WoW from vanilla and the only thing that changed after the LFG tool was started was to break the power the few elitist groups had over their community. The biggest jerks and those most likely to ninja items were the members of the biggest guilds because they knew they could get away with it. After the LFG tool was started, the Elitists all cried at their loss of power over the community. A negative reputation on the server is not always earned, sometimes the super elitists impose a negative reputation just because you stood up to them and made them angry.

 

Then there is the issue of it hurting guilds. Before the x-server LFG tool in WoW, guilds would go out and group with other people on the server and look for possible recruits, if they found someone good they would suggest going and putting in an app for their guild. With x-server, everyone you grouped with became a nameless player. It just took so much from the server community.

 

Really?

 

What game are you talking about because that is not the WoW I play. I am in a good sized guild with steady guild raids 4 times a week. It is always better to run with the same people so you can learn how to beat the content, many of the fights change just by swapping out 2 members of the raid so you have to adjust. LFG helped guilds because there were more geared players to choose from to fill out your raids. The guild perks for being a lvl 25 guild is also nice for those who just want to farm or level alts too. Guilds will always be needed in these kinds of games, the problem is without a LFG tool only a select few people will ever be allowed to see some of the content this game offers. I have a lvl 50 toon that I have never been able to find good groups for because I can only play during the day. A LFG tool would let me access the few other players like me who play during the day on other servers to get enough to fill out a run. This is not possible on the same server because there is nobody wanting to do these runs during the day on my server.

[Evangolis]

I find it amusing how you state this and then go on to say you don't want to play with people on other servers.

 

The poster is correct. Players choose a server to be on because they feel that server was what better suited them, perhaps to play with friends or a guild, or for the purpose of meeting other new and exciting players. Most players are not inclined to deal with the possible human debris that haunt cross server LFG tools looking for the next group it can disrupt or waste the time of. Part of playing is indeed getting to know the people on your own server. Friendships & rivalries are made in such ways.

[ferroz]

Tell me, what concessions are YOU giving up in your proposal?

Less people using the cross server grouping system, which reduces it's effectiveness. It's actually the same concession that the single server lfg people are making.

 

The "I don't want to use the lfg tool at all" people don't actually make a concession other than "other people can play the game the way that they want and I don't get to control them"

[chaosdefined]

The poster is correct. Players choose a server to be on because they feel that server was what better suited them, perhaps to play with friends or a guild, or for the purpose of meeting other new and exciting players. Most players are not inclined to deal with the possible human debris that haunt cross server LFG tools looking for the next group it can disrupt or waste the time of. Part of playing is indeed getting to know the people on your own server. Friendships & rivalries are made in such ways.

 

It's a very poor attitude to have, coming into an MMO. I'd rather play with everyone I can in the game, than wall myself into a server and scream about how evil those outside it were.

[Cerion]

That doesn't change anything (though Kudos for your craftiness, you win a debate star). You were still being insulting to one side and though I quoted your post there were more than one it applied to (I chose yours since you actually chose to bring maturity into it). Many of the anti-LFD people have done nothing but thrown insults to the pro-LFD people and many of the pro-xserver people have been quite mature with their posts so no, neither side has a corner on the maturity market.

 

I was replying to a poster who had a question. I gave an answer. I'm sorry you found that insulting since I never actually stated what the pro-LFD side looks like. I simply said "let the evidence speak for itself".

 

As for the entire debate history of this subject, could care less.

 

 

 

 

If the person is jumping up and down, stomping on the ground and crying tears out while they say it, then yes, I'll agree that it's childish. As a paying customer, though, they have every right to inform the company that they're paying that if a certain service isn't provided that they'll take their business elsewhere (something I've done on a number of occasions IRL). Nothing immature about that. In fact, last I heard Bioware likes feedback. They have to take the negative with the positive and much of the negative has been constructive (and yes some has been given immaturely)

 

And what was more effective in your pursuit of improved products or services? Crying on a forum, or writing directly to the company or business, or perhaps paying their office a visit. I know which has been more effective for me, and that involves calling the company in question to complain, to write them a letter, or visit the store to lodge a complaint. "I quit' threads on the interwebs are about as useful as...teats on a boar as the saying goes.

[Orrow]

For the people using WoWs cross server queues as an example of communities falling apart, you are wrong. It wasn't the cross server queues that ruined the community, it was something this game is already planning to add in Server transfers. Server transfers are what caused the "death" of the WoW community. Having players leave and join servers did far more to hurt communities then cross server grouping ever did. Make a fool out of yourself? $25 to start fresh somewhere else. Don't like something about your server? $25 to find a different one instead of trying to improve yours. This game already has a community that closely resembles WoWs and with server transfers its only going to get worse.

[Balrizangor]

You know, I keep seeing people like you make this claim but I have no idea where you get it from. I played WoW from vanilla and the only thing that changed after the LFG tool was started was to break the power the few elitist groups had over their community. The biggest jerks and those most likely to ninja items were the members of the biggest guilds because they knew they could get away with it. After the LFG tool was started, the Elitists all cried at their loss of power over the community. A negative reputation on the server is not always earned, sometimes the super elitists impose a negative reputation just because you stood up to them and made them angry.

 

 

 

Really?

 

What game are you talking about because that is not the WoW I play. I am in a good sized guild with steady guild raids 4 times a week. It is always better to run with the same people so you can learn how to beat the content, many of the fights change just by swapping out 2 members of the raid so you have to adjust. LFG helped guilds because there were more geared players to choose from to fill out your raids. The guild perks for being a lvl 25 guild is also nice for those who just want to farm or level alts too. Guilds will always be needed in these kinds of games, the problem is without a LFG tool only a select few people will ever be allowed to see some of the content this game offers. I have a lvl 50 toon that I have never been able to find good groups for because I can only play during the day. A LFG tool would let me access the few other players like me who play during the day on other servers to get enough to fill out a run. This is not possible on the same server because there is nobody wanting to do these runs during the day on my server.

 

 

If you seriously used the LFG tool in WoW and NEVER ran into someone being an *** you are lying. Since the day the x-server tool was implemented to even today, the fact that there is no accountability in using the tool in regards to the people in your group, is the #1 biggest complaint of the tool.

 

That was why they (Blizzard) have made at least 4 changes to the way people can be kicked from a group by vote. Also, the fact you played since Vanilla is irrelevant to this discussion, I did as well (also the beta) and the LFG tool was not in Vanilla WoW.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Balrizangor

[chaosdefined]

I simply said "let the evidence speak for itself".

 

So far, the evidence we have is that you spout claims and refuse to explain them, then completely ignore us when we challenge you to drop the insults and put your money where your mouth is.

 

That evidence is speaking pretty loudly.

[Cerion]

I've been posting in this thread from the beginning and have not seen anything even close to this... I just re-skimmed it all and again, saw nothing to justify your comments...

 

While I agree with your premiss...(giving ultimatums to get your way is dumb/childish) it has no basis in this thread, so again... why are you posting this here?

 

Find a thread where there is some "stomping of your feet" type stuff and post it there?

 

Jus Sayin...

 

Yes sir!

/salutes

I won't post one word off topic again, sir! Pardon me for digressing, sir!

/salutes

 

(oops, guess I failed that already)

[Timesjoke]

The poster is correct. Players choose a server to be on because they feel that server was what better suited them, perhaps to play with friends or a guild, or for the purpose of meeting other new and exciting players. Most players are not inclined to deal with the possible human debris that haunt cross server LFG tools looking for the next group it can disrupt or waste the time of. Part of playing is indeed getting to know the people on your own server. Friendships & rivalries are made in such ways.

 

Unless you were part of a pre-launch guild forming it is very doubtful you were able to "choose" your server based on how it "suited them". Most new players knew nothing about the other players on the server they selected or how the population density would be a couple months later.

 

The gloom and doom claims about "human debri" being a big problem in LFG tools is completely false. I have used similar tools in other games like WoW and there is no noticable increase in idiots if you use the LFG tool. Prior to a LFG tool, the majority of the so called "human debri" is the members of the largest guilds who lord over the rest of the community and ninja anything they want because they can get away with it.

[Jaxarale]

The poster is correct. Players choose a server to be on because they feel that server was what better suited them, perhaps to play with friends or a guild, or for the purpose of meeting other new and exciting players. Most players are not inclined to deal with the possible human debris that haunt cross server LFG tools looking for the next group it can disrupt or waste the time of. Part of playing is indeed getting to know the people on your own server. Friendships & rivalries are made in such ways

 

And that poster has the ability to not participate in the LFG system... no one is forcing him to change his play style or the way he views the game...

Why is it that he and you and the other anti LFG advocates seem hell bent on forcing us to play they way you want us to?

 

If we could get a coherent answer of that question I think the debate can be done with...

 

I believe the problem is that there is NO coherent explanation for why you feel you can tell us how to play this game by trying to take away an option we want...

[Skidrowbro]

Why is it so hard for people to learn how to play an MMO? They have always been about the journey and adventure, not the destination. I do feel sorry for people on a dead server but I don't feel sorry for them if why choose to stay on it. What are some LFD players gonna do if it's server only and not instant teleport? What if they still have to, gasp, walk?

[Skidrowbro]

And that poster has the ability to not participate in the LFG system... no one is forcing him to change his play style or the way he views the game...

Why is it that he and you and the other anti LFG advocates seem hell bent on forcing us to play they way you want us to?

 

If we could get a coherent answer of that question I think the debate can be done with...

 

I believe the problem is that there is NO coherent explanation for why you feel you can tell us how to play this game by trying to take away an option we want...

 

You are forcing him. Now his pool of players has shrunk to suit your demands

[Jederix]

Successful at exposing the majority of the playerbase to the end game; previously only a small minority had actually been able to be involved in the end game content.

 

The crux of his particular issue, I'd wager. It flies in the face of "Special Snowflake Syndrome" that so many so-called "Hardcore" players seem to suffer from.

[Diet-Hutt]

MMORPG's are about meeting players, grouping and developing a community, how is this possible if you are grouping with players on other servers who you will never see again?

 

How often do you see the random people you group with again in another grouping (excluding guilds)?

 

I tell you that for me it's rare.

 

Not only that, I group up for the PvE Heroic quests with people who send a random invite to join, barely chat more than two words, and cut group once the mission is over without even saying "goodbye". Regardless if you are social or not, from what I can tell, a lot of people are more interested in getting the quest/FP done, as opposed to making good friends.

 

If you are becoming good friends with the people you PUG with, all I can say is I am envious.

For me on this server, it's a rare thing.

 

I've made friend through helping people with PvE quests more than running through a PUG for a Heroic/FP, and a LFG tool for PVP or HFP's won't change that.

 

I do see a NEED for an LFG tool and it should be cross server for PVP and FP's.

 

 

- DH

[chaosdefined]

Why is it so hard for people to learn how to play an MMO? They have always been about the journey and adventure, not the destination. I do feel sorry for people on a dead server but I don't feel sorry for them if why choose to stay on it. What are some LFD players gonna do if it's server only and not instant teleport? What if they still have to, gasp, walk?

 

Your compassion towards other plays is admirable.

 

/sarcasm

 

Seriously though how would you feel being on a dead server and the only answer you got was of someone saying "Tough, start everything again on a new server and spend weeks/months re-doing everything you just did."?

[chaosdefined]

You are forcing him. Now his pool of players has shrunk to suit your demands

 

That makes no sense? Cross-Server LFG increases the pool of players you can play with. If you don't want to use LFG at all then don't, you can still ask in General Chat if you want.

If you're about to say but everyone will be using LFG, well then, clearly they must want it. After all, if they didn't want LFG they wouldn't use it right?

[Jaxarale]

I won't post one word off topic again, sir! Pardon me for digressing, sir!

 

No worries mate...

This happens all the time with my GF, we will be discussing one thing and she will throw an emotional tirade into the conversation and try and totally move off topic when she sees she is wrong.

Its all good.

 

That makes no sense? Cross-Server LFG increases the pool of players you can play with. If you don't want to use LFG at all then don't, you can still ask in General Chat if you want.

If you're about to say but everyone will be using LFG, well then, clearly they must want it. After all, if they didn't want LFG they wouldn't use it right?

 

Now damn it... stop using logic and facts to mess up his arguments!!! There is just no place for that in this discussion!!

Edited May 1, 2012 by Jaxarale

[Skidrowbro]

Your compassion towards other plays is admirable.

 

/sarcasm

 

Seriously though how would you feel being on a dead server and the only answer you got was of someone saying "Tough, start everything again on a new server and spend weeks/months re-doing everything you just did."?

 

I've already rerolled onto my fourth server not a big deal

Guess what? Even with a cross server LFD tool, you will still be on a dead server.

[Valkirus]

I just cancelled my subscription due to the lack of players on my server.

Trying to find members for grouped content should not take up hours of your game time.

A LFG tool in one of the after launch patches would have swayed my decision to leave the game.

 

It still baffles me that folks who can create such fantastic story and game content fail to add quality of life stuff like a lfg tool or way to summon your fellow players to an instance. No devs looked at other premium/freemium mmo's and ticked off what players want (need) in order to play like they're used to?

 

Really good points. And the same reasons some more will unsub if a LFG tool does not get them into the end game content on a timely manner. Some donot have all day to play this game every day.

[ZenMorph]

It's a very poor attitude to have, coming into an MMO. I'd rather play with everyone I can in the game, than wall myself into a server and scream about how evil those outside it were.

 

But it seems reasonable that x-server LFG should restrict to same server type (i.e. RP-PVE, PVE, PVP, RP-PVP, etc). If that still proves to be a barrier to completing FPs via LFG, then a priority system might work, where you're only grouped with dissimilar servers if same-type servers can't provide a group member for the queue.

 

I'm mixed on the whole LFG tool. I see some good arguments from several points of view. I got to the point in WoW where I wouldn't queue for a random unless I went in with a full-group of guildies/friends. The bad experiences had begun to outnumber the good experiences. But, I don't know that I can lay this at the feet of the LFG tool. The tool was in-place pre-Cata, but it wasn't until a couple months after Cata released that I noticed a sharp deterioration in player behavior in dungeon runs via LFG. I can only surmise there are other variables at work there.

Edited May 1, 2012 by ZenMorph
Typo correction

[Jederix]

That makes no sense? Cross-Server LFG increases the pool of players you can play with. If you don't want to use LFG at all then don't, you can still ask in General Chat if you want.

If you're about to say but everyone will be using LFG, well then, clearly they must want it. After all, if they didn't want LFG they wouldn't use it right?

 

But he can't control who he plays with. This is the issue. It has little to do with the tool itself. There are a subset of MMO players who are more interested in controlling those around them, and their gameplay, than actually playing the game itself.

 

Me, I want to play. I don't care who you are. I don't want to be your friend. I want to que up, run an instance, maybe get some gear, and move on. I have plenty of real world friends as it is.

 

Disclaimer: The You does not mean "You", the guy I quoted, it means "you" as in the playerbase as a whole.

[ChaosKirin]

That makes no sense? Cross-Server LFG increases the pool of players you can play with. If you don't want to use LFG at all then don't, you can still ask in General Chat if you want.

If you're about to say but everyone will be using LFG, well then, clearly they must want it. After all, if they didn't want LFG they wouldn't use it right?

 

This is exactly what I think. If there are so many people who DON'T want an LFG tool, won't they still exist after an LFG tool is implemented? To them, I say 'take the initiative, find like-minded people, and form a 'We Hate LFG Tools' guild and then group to your heart's content.