Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[chaosdefined]

Think most people want the option of either choosing xlfg or server lfg. No magic involved.

 

That's what I keep saying would be best, but the Anti-XLFG people keep saying an uncompromising no to that answer.

Funny, they complain about community and then show no compassion towards other players.

[ferroz]

It's not about me putting them on ignore. This isn't a self-centered issue for me. It's about the health of the server, both economy and community.

Putting them on ignore is all you can actually do for the health of the game, whether you're talking about cross or single server. People are more likely to put you on ignore for spamming general if you go complaining about them.

 

And why am I going to report a RMT/gold seller if I happened to be the one making the transaction, lol? I wouldn't know what was happening otherwise.

 

Yes they currently exist. That's like saying we shouldn't police for robbers because they're already happening. Giving them a tool to do their business more efficiently isn't smart.

Again: why are you assuming that this is going to be possible?

 

Cross server lfg does not in any way help RMT/gold sellers.

 

 

First of all "friend" is a misnomer in these games. It's more "acquaintance" or "stranger you just spent a hour with clearing out a dungeon and didn't hate."

 

So to answer your loaded "why would'nt you want to share your email address with your friends?" question: I wouldn't have problem with "friends". Actual friends. People I knew and trusted. And I suspect most people wouldn't.

 

But that's not really who we are talking about here.

If you're arguing that realid is badly implemented... well, that doesn't really have anything to do with cross server itself. The functionality is there and it's clear how the system can be well implemented (ie, take a look at the incoming battle tag system for wow)

 

Being a a former wow player, it wasn't that "hardcore" raiders didn't want all players to be able to see endgame content, it was that the content was dumbed down considerably. Considering in the 25 man lfr group 1/2 of the raid can sit there not doing anything and still down the boss, that was the problem. Yes I did run a lfr in wow before I quit and it was laughable. I thought it was a good idea when they brought it up as more people would be able to see all the content but how it was implemented was terrible, I mean more than 1/2 the raid should to have to at least try lol.

eh, if half the raid sat there and did nothing, you didn't have enough dps to take down (for example) the tendons in the time that you had to take them out. That may no longer be the case (I haven't played wow in a bit), if you have highly overgeared people doing the content...

 

But that's irrelevant: if you don't want to do dumbed down content, don't do the dumbed down content. Play the content that's not dumbed down.

Edited May 1, 2012 by ferroz

[Valkirus]

Sorry, I have Ferroz on ignore, so I'll have to address you. Can you not trade with other players while using LFG finder..I mean, once you're in the instance and all? I don't play WoW, so have no experience with their tool.

 

Yes. But..not in the upcoming MOP LFR tool. They are implementing a drop and roll system similair to what TOR uses in thier Operations. Which is...no more rolling for items and no more trading of items you win. The system will roll for you. This will help with the ninjas for items and also with the wait times as some now log before they roll on a item. Making the remaining players wait the 2 mins for the roll timer to wear off.

[ferroz]

Yes. But..not in the upcoming MOP LFR tool.

Even in the current LFG and LFR tools, you can't trade with anyone who's not on your server, other than drops that happened in that instance. So that does not, in any way, help RMT/gold sellers transfer stuff from one server to another. Edited May 1, 2012 by ferroz

[Cerion]

That's what I keep saying would be best, but the Anti-XLFG people keep saying an uncompromising no to that answer.

Funny, they complain about community and then show no compassion towards other players.

 

No. The way I see it, the compromise is having same-server LFG tool. You have one camp that wants no-holds-barred x-server access and another group that doesn't want any LFG tool. To me, the middle ground that best addresses all concerns is the same-server LFG tool.

[chaosdefined]

 

Again: why are you assuming that this is going to be possible?

 

Cross server lfg does not in any way help RMT/gold sellers.

 

Yeah I was especially confused as to how they came to this conclusion, considering that in WoW you aren't able to Trade with anyone cross server whilst in a dungeon. So that would make it impossible.

[ferroz]

No. The way I see it, the compromise is having same-server LFG tool.

That's not a compromise. It does not, in any way, address the concerns of the people who are playing on dead servers.

[chaosdefined]

No. The way I see it, the compromise is having same-server LFG tool. You have one camp that wants no-holds-barred x-server access and another group that doesn't want any LFG tool. To me, the middle ground that best addresses all concerns is the same-server LFG tool.

 

I'd love to know what dictionairy you use that lists the definition of compromise as "We get what we want, you don't get what you want.".

[MasterKayote]

Also, can we please stop with the LFG tool threads? At least for now? We're getting a same server LFG tool next major patch ... we're getting server transfers around the same time. Its been confirmed ... no need to discuss it anymore. If it works out, great! If it doesnt THEN maybe Bioware will consider x-server at which then we can (hopefully) discuss ways to make it better and mitigate, prevent, and or block all its shortcomings.

 

If done right, and the same server tool works for getting players groups then there is no need for x-server.

[ferroz]

Yeah I was especially confused as to how they came to this conclusion, considering that in WoW you aren't able to Trade with anyone cross server whilst in a dungeon. So that would make it impossible.

You can't in rift either, as far as I'm aware. You couldn't when cross server went live in that game in 1.4, but it's possible that they've changed the mechanics since then.

[Valkirus]

Even in the current LFG and LFR tools, you can't trade with anyone who's not on your server, other than drops that happened in that instance. So that does not, in any way, help RMT/gold sellers transfer stuff from one server to another.

 

Yes..that is true. And I agree.

[chaosdefined]

You can't in rift either, as far as I'm aware. You couldn't when cross server went live in that game in 1.4, but it's possible that they've changed the mechanics since then.

 

And as far as I remember in WoW, you could only trade items that dropped from within that dungeon, nothing else.

Which is still more than you can do currently in SWTOR.

[Darkulous]

Also, can we please stop with the LFG tool threads? At least for now? We're getting a same server LFG tool next major patch ... we're getting server transfers around the same time. Its been confirmed ... no need to discuss it anymore. If it works out, great! If it doesnt THEN maybe Bioware will consider x-server at which then we can (hopefully) discuss ways to make it better and mitigate, prevent, and or block all its shortcomings.

 

If done right, and the same server tool works for getting players groups then there is no need for x-server.

 

I'm not gonna stop talking about it until a X-server is actually implemented. Anyone who has experience with LFD tools knows what is going to happen with this same server LFD tool - High populated servers will prosper and all others will not. How is that different from todays Group Finder?

[Cerion]

I'd love to know what dictionairy you use that lists the definition of compromise as "We get what we want, you don't get what you want.".

 

The dictionary that defines compromise, defines it exactly how I've presented it. Your option is the one in which your side gets its x-server option, which completly steamrolls the concerns of the other side. That is the epitome of uncompromising. You attempt to dress up your option as a 'choice', but all that does is bypass the issues of the other side.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Cerion

[ferroz]

I'm not gonna stop talking about it until a X-server is actually implemented. Anyone who has experience with LFD tools knows what is going to happen with this same server LFD tool - High populated servers will prosper and all others will not. How is that different from todays Group Finder?

that was definitely my experience in rift.

 

Even the highly populated servers had problems with single server lfg (say, for example: gnarlwood when it was #5 on the population charts); it simply did not help people playing off hours, especially when they weren't at the level cap. And in wow, with cross server, a low level group off peak (say, 10 am server time on a weekday) still only took 5-10 minutes or so.

Edited May 1, 2012 by ferroz

[Valkirus]

Also, can we please stop with the LFG tool threads? At least for now? We're getting a same server LFG tool next major patch ... we're getting server transfers around the same time. Its been confirmed ... no need to discuss it anymore. If it works out, great! If it doesnt THEN maybe Bioware will consider x-server at which then we can (hopefully) discuss ways to make it better and mitigate, prevent, and or block all its shortcomings.

 

If done right, and the same server tool works for getting players groups then there is no need for x-server.

 

No......

[chaosdefined]

The dictionary that defines compromise, defines it exactly how I've presented it. Your option is the one in which your side gets it's x-server option, which completes steamrolls the concerns of the other side. That is the epitome of uncompromising. You attempt to dress up your option as a 'choice', but all that does is bypass the issues of the other side.

 

No that's exactly what you are doing. My option was to give a Group Finder that allowed players the choice of using it for Cross Server or Single Server. That way both sides get what they want.

Your option wasn't an option at all, but simply what you want and nothing more.

 

I suggest you double check what the definition of compromise is.

Edited May 1, 2012 by chaosdefined

[ferroz]

The dictionary that defines compromise, defines it exactly how I've presented it.

Not at all. A situation where one side makes 0 concessions and the other side gains nothing is not a compromise. That's what a single server lfg tool is.

 

On the other hand: a lfg tool where each individual can pick whether it includes people cross server or single server is an actual compromise.

Edited May 1, 2012 by ferroz

[Sparklehorse]

I drank the "It ruins the community" Kool-Aid for a while but I am slowly beginning to realize that we really don't have any proof of this at all. What we have are a lot of people making a claim that they really have no way of backing up.

 

There are measures that can be taken while creating a x-server lfg tool that can actually contribute to community, on a larger scale. There are things that can be done to discourage poor behavior (ie. a rating system that displays a players group rating) and there are ways to encourage making friends and forming groups across servers.

 

Now I realize this is gonna be buried beneath pages of whining both for and against x-server LFG but I really hope Bioware realizes one thing here.

 

They have an opportunity to set up a system that nobody has ever seen before. A chance to create a LFG tool that brings broader communities together and encourages communication and even grouping with friends across servers and even factions.

 

I hope they are thinking big enough and not rushing this feature. I'm not saying it doesn't need to be implemented ASAP because it does but that needs to be tempered with the need to actually have a good (not adequate but good) means for grouping in game.

 

Server transfers should come first and get everybody consolidated onto active and bustling servers. THEN perfect the LFG system.

[ulantra]

The biggest gripe really isn't community...to me that's crap. You have a chance to meet more people cross server then you do in your server. The biggest gripe is it takes away the communities ability to police itself in its groups. Say bob is a huge troll. always pulls wrong stuff, gets team wiped over and over, generally just doesn't give a rip. In the system now, the community has the ability to just not invite him to a group. He learns and either changes or leaves. LFG tool basically allows bob to troll as much as he wants and just reque up. that gripe i can definitely understand.

 

If the community you are policing is you and 100 other players the quality of the game blows. LFG and the new Looking for Raid are awesome. Personally the "Kick Player" option cures bob quickly. All arguments seem to come from insecurity IMO.

[Willhousefour]

People play the game for different reasons. I play this game for the gameplay, exploration, and story, not specifically to meet new people. The inability to quickly form groups (I try via chat broadcasts) has limited my ability to explore the world and observe new story elements both in heroics and flashpoints. A LFG tool would help alleviate this problem. I think it's a good thing.

[Darkulous]

thatwas definitely my experience in rift.

 

Even the highly populated servers had problems with single server lfg; it simply did not help people playing off hours, especially when they weren't at the level cap. And in wow, with cross server, a low level group off peak (say, 10 am server time on a weekday) still only took 5-10 minutes or so.

 

No doubt. Without a X-server Tool, nobody in WoW would be able to run Pre-85 dungeons while leveling up. ALL of that content would be collecting dust without that Tool and players would be stuck either Questing or PvPing as their only options to level up.

[DawnAskham]

Yes. But..not in the upcoming MOP LFR tool. They are implementing a drop and roll system similair to what TOR uses in thier Operations. Which is...no more rolling for items and no more trading of items you win. The system will roll for you. This will help with the ninjas for items and also with the wait times as some now log before they roll on a item. Making the remaining players wait the 2 mins for the roll timer to wear off.

 

A bit different than TORs from what I've read. It appears each player will be given a roll for loot, independent of all other players. If a player 'wins' their personal roll, then they are awarded loot for their class from the boss loot tables.

 

The key to the system is that loot is no longer fixed in the sense that a boss only drops X items that are then distributed by roll to the group, but rather that each player has an independent chance at winning loot, so there can no longer be any 'so and so took MY loot' type issues.

 

And I'm all for cross server LFG. I cannot fathom why people hate the idea so much. Just like the poster above, the biggest draw is being able to run ANY content at ANY time.

 

I'm on a high population SWTOR server, yet depending on the day and time, and what content I wish to run, I may not find a group. And having friends and guild members doesn't change the fact that outside peak times and typically for end-game content, finding a group can be nearly impossible.

Edited May 1, 2012 by DawnAskham

[Skidrowbro]

I can only speak of my guild..which before cross server LFG tool was added in WoW....we had like 150 members..now 2 yrs later we have 237. .

 

Ya so you tore apart another guild most likely to build up yours. Gratz

 

 

Which has sence showed them it is very successful.

 

Successful at what? Dumbing a game down to the point that your pet can play it?

[ZenMorph]

There are a very very few people that join guilds just for the interaction of the group... they may enjoy the interaction WHILE they level that toon and try and get more purple shiny things or kill bosses or for whatever their goal is in a game...

 

No one in this world does anything without some level of self motivation being involved...

 

Lulz

 

I respectfully disagree. My own experience in a large (300+) guild in that "other" MMO is primarily social. Raid progression, pvp and/or RBGs are entirely secondary and casual. Guild chat is always busy, mostly about non-game topics. People are playing while they talk, but it's very social. And, it's not on an RP server. When guildies do use the LFG, they usually join as a fully formed group. There is a unaminous consensus within the guild to only queue for randoms with fellow guildies or friends. No one wants to take a chance on dealing with the jerks that you encounter randomly from other servers. It's not worth the aggravation.