Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[JeramieCrowe]

In my 10+ years of MMOing, I've had about a 98% rate of bad experiences with the X-server LFG. Same server is just fine, and will be perfectly adequate since it's coming after server transfer/shut-downs. Edited May 6, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Pythoris]

I've had bad experiences in groups with and without X-server grouping. To tell you the truth, bad experiences are going to happen. It's the internet, for crying out loud. A jerk's paradise and sanctuary. The experience is what people make it.

 

I'm all for X-server LFG tool. It will definately make it less of a chore to get a group together that's NOT full of people from your guild.

[JeramieCrowe]

I've had bad experiences in groups with and without X-server grouping. To tell you the truth, bad experiences are going to happen. It's the internet, for crying out loud. A jerk's paradise and sanctuary. The experience is what people make it.

 

I'm all for X-server LFG tool. It will definately make it less of a chore to get a group together that's NOT full of people from your guild.

 

Bad experiences happen no matter what, that's right. However, they happen more frequently or less frequently depending on the circumstance. In my experience, going by percentage, they happen a lot more often with X-server than without.

 

And, since the LFG tool is coming with 1.3, which will be after server transfer/shut-down culling, X-server will be unnecessary.

 

Why implement an unnecessary tool that only increases bad experiences?

[Crazy_Person]

Bad experiences happen no matter what, that's right. However, they happen more frequently or less frequently depending on the circumstance. In my experience, going by percentage, they happen a lot more often with X-server than without.

 

And, since the LFG tool is coming with 1.3, which will be after server transfer/shut-down culling, X-server will be unnecessary.

 

Why implement an unnecessary tool that only increases bad experiences?

I agree with what you say...

 

With that said I think there is an argument where 20 groups with 5 bad ones in there is a better situation than only getting 5 total groups in that time frame. Allthough the numbers are made up... in my case I am pretty sure I would have run this place I want to run more than the one time I had if there was a x server pool of people. I really don't want to learn to tank at level 50...

 

Sitting around spamming LFG, or /who ing, or going to the area with people that right level is a very slow process... Not how I want to spend the time playing.

 

Again, my personal opinion is that it is becoming neccisary for level up content but the frustrations at endgame are needed for communities sake.

[DarthTHC]

In my 10+ years of MMOing, I've had about a 98% rate of bad experiences with the X-server LFG. Same server is just fine, and will be perfectly adequate since it's coming after server transfer/shut-downs.

 

So you're pretty much saying that 98% of all people on servers you didn't choose ninja, facepull, fail, don't equip right, afk, etc, but 100% of all people on the servers you choose are perfect groupmates?

 

Seriously?

 

What game is this in?

[Valkirus]

Bad experiences happen no matter what, that's right. However, they happen more frequently or less frequently depending on the circumstance. In my experience, going by percentage, they happen a lot more often with X-server than without.

 

And, since the LFG tool is coming with 1.3, which will be after server transfer/shut-down culling, X-server will be unnecessary.

 

Why implement an unnecessary tool that only increases bad experiences?

 

How do you know server transfers.shut-down culling will be happening before 1.3 comes out? And while some have bad memories of groups using a cross server LFG tool, there are also many like myself who feels overall a cross server benefits overshadow the downsides as there are ways to deal with the occasional jerks you get grouped with. Ignore list works well. Plus a cross server LFG tool would make server merges and shut downs unnecessary.

[JeramieCrowe]

So you're pretty much saying that 98% of all people on servers you didn't choose ninja, facepull, fail, don't equip right, afk, etc, but 100% of all people on the servers you choose are perfect groupmates?

 

Seriously?

 

What game is this in?

 

Where did I say that?

 

98% > 75%.....

[JeramieCrowe]

How do you know server transfers.shut-down culling will be happening before 1.3 comes out? And while some have bad memories of groups using a cross server LFG tool, there are also many like myself who feels overall a cross server benefits overshadow the downsides as there are ways to deal with the occasional jerks you get grouped with. Ignore list works well. Plus a cross server LFG tool would make server merges and shut downs unnecessary.

 

I understand this.

 

So, why not make it a choice for the player, since the playerbase is split enough on this to warrant it? Implement an LFG tool with an X-server toggle. Wouldn't be too hard to do.

 

Then, if you want to queue for X-server and I don't, we both get our way.

 

Also, I don't agree that an X-server would make transfer/shut-downs unnecessary given the amount of players that would not queue for X-server.

 

Oh, and about the transfer/shut-downs happening before 1.3, well, "early summer" is probably worst-case scenario, meaning it will probably happen late this month or early June. 1.3 isn't even on PTS yet, which usually takes more than a month to test. Of course, there's always the possibility that 1.3 will come first, but unlikely.

Edited May 6, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Valkirus]

 

1. I see what you did there, another accusation you can't substantiate.

Because hardmode dungeons are endgame. Either that or you must already assume that such a tool will apply to raids as well, just like WoW!

 

2. Why do you relate "casual" with bad at a game? Seperate difficulty settings in mmos is like holding chess tournaments for people with a confirmed lower IQ.

 

3.I cannot have the confidence that any company will make a good game that gives me lasting enjoyment when their passion for money clearly excedes their passion for gaming.

 

1. Sence the poster posted figures which from my experence are sooo far out in right field...yeah...I feel it was a exaggeration. Yeah..it is based on my experence and you can choose to beleave it or not. End game content does enclude Operations and IMO should not be hardmodes or Nightmare modes as those should be content for the hardcore gamers or those wanting more of a challenge to tackle. It works well in WoW and can in TOR also.

 

2. Casual gamers = bad? Those are your words..not mine. Casual gamers I look at as players who donot have the time or desire to devote themselves to excel at a game. This does'nt make them bad players. It makes them players who have other things to do with thier times than playing a game hours on end or simply ones who want to log on and have a good time for a hour or two and logout feeling they did.

 

3. You need a reality check. ALL companies apart from non-profit ones or support organizations are out to make money as thier "number one goal". They exist for that purpose if they want to survive and prosper. BioWare and EA are no different in that department.

[Valkirus]

I understand this.

 

So, why not make it a choice for the player, since the playerbase is split enough on this to warrant it? Implement an LFG tool with an X-server toggle. Wouldn't be too hard to do.

 

Then, if you want to queue for X-server and I don't, we both get our way.

 

Also, I don't agree that an X-server would make transfer/shut-downs unnecessary given the amount of players that would not queue for X-server.

 

Oh, and about the transfer/shut-downs happening before 1.3, well, "early summer" is probably worst-case scenario, meaning it will probably happen late this month or early June. 1.3 isn't even on PTS yet, which usually takes more than a month to test. Of course, there's always the possibility that 1.3 will come first, but unlikely.

 

I would be fine with a cross server LFG toggle. Just give me a tool to experence end game content in a timely manner. Those who donot want to use it..can simply not use it.

[JeramieCrowe]

I would be fine with a cross server LFG toggle. Just give me a tool to experence end game content in a timely manner. Those who donot want to use it..can simply not use it.

 

There we are then. Both groups are happy.

 

/thread

[Pythoris]

Bad experiences happen no matter what, that's right. However, they happen more frequently or less frequently depending on the circumstance. In my experience, going by percentage, they happen a lot more often with X-server than without.

 

And, since the LFG tool is coming with 1.3, which will be after server transfer/shut-down culling, X-server will be unnecessary.

 

Why implement an unnecessary tool that only increases bad experiences?

 

It really doesn't only increase bad experiences. There are some good things that come from X-server LFG tools. Such as having more people to play with and getting a group together even faster. As for the bad experiences, in my experience with MMOs I have learned that trolls, elitists, and jerks will make up for any diminished opportunity to be the morons they like beingby taking full advantage of another. Sre, no X-server tool means less trolls in your group. It also means more trolls out there ganking or ninjaing nodes and the like.

 

Creeps will be creeps, no matter what. Having no X-server LFG tool will not really diminish that. A troll will find a way.

[Darkulous]

Ok, I've decided to redirect my anger. Instead of wasting my time convincing the anti-LFDers the errors of their ways, I've set my sights on BW directly. They should have settled this X-LFD debate long ago. Either add it or don't add it! That way the people who like or dislike it can move on instead of wasting their time. Say what you want about Blizzard but at least they've embraced their game and the features in it. If you go on the WoW forums, people aren't debating on whether to have a LFD or not, they're debating on the aspects of it and how to make it better.

 

BW is acting like a 5 year old with this game - They can't decide what they want for Dinner.

 

If you're gonna give us a LFD, give us the full version, not some half-*** version. If you're gonna give us Combat logs, give us the full version, not some half-*** version. Either commit to the feature or don't release it at all.

 

Their indecisiveness is killing this game. They're trying to make everyone happy. LOL. You can't do that in life and you certainly can't do it with GAMERS. The addition or subtraction of the LFD alone will cost you subscriptions, so pick one and FOCUS on those type of players.

[Blazenor]

If someone think there is a better way for players to form groups in a more timely and effective way please stated. Having a LFG matchmaking system allows for players to run content on their own time without having to waste time spamming general (BTW, lot of players miss what is being said in chat due to getting quests or turning them in) or have to pause what they are doing.

[Mallorik]

Ok, I've decided to redirect my anger. Instead of wasting my time convincing the anti-LFDers the errors of their ways, I've set my sights on BW directly. They should have settled this X-LFD debate long ago. Either add it or don't add it! That way the people who like or dislike it can move on instead of wasting their time. Say what you want about Blizzard but at least they've embraced their game and the features in it. If you go on the WoW forums, people aren't debating on whether to have a LFD or not, they're debating on the aspects of it and how to make it better.

 

BW is acting like a 5 year old with this game - They can't decide what they want for Dinner.

 

If you're gonna give us a LFD, give us the full version, not some half-*** version. If you're gonna give us Combat logs, give us the full version, not some half-*** version. Either commit to the feature or don't release it at all.

 

Their indecisiveness is killing this game. They're trying to make everyone happy. LOL. You can't do that in life and you certainly can't do it with GAMERS. The addition or subtraction of the LFD alone will cost you subscriptions, so pick one and FOCUS on those type of players.

 

BW has decided, they think it ruins a game which is why is the main source of my fear for the future of swtor, if devs are that dim what chance does this game have?

 

I rant about the lfg tool mainly hoping bioware will see it and get a clue. these other clueless people wont be convinced by something they read on a message board their minds may slowly change when they see games that resist having a cross server lfg system fail one after another. But i doubt theres too many more game devs out there dumb enough to beleive that a cross server lfg isnt good for an mmo so i dont think we will see many more triple aa mmos that release without them much less refuse to add them later.

[Darkulous]

BW has decided, they think it ruins a game which is why is the main source of my fear for the future of swtor, if devs are that dim what chance does this game have?

 

I rant about the lfg tool mainly hoping bioware will see it and get a clue. these other clueless people wont be convinced by something they read on a message board their minds may slowly change when they see games that resist having a cross server lfg system fail one after another. But i doubt theres too many more game devs out there dumb enough to beleive that a cross server lfg isnt good for an mmo so i dont think we will see many more triple aa mmos that release without them much less refuse to add them later.

 

sigh. i hope you're right

[JeramieCrowe]

Ok, I've decided to redirect my anger. Instead of wasting my time convincing the anti-LFDers the errors of their ways, I've set my sights on BW directly. They should have settled this X-LFD debate long ago. Either add it or don't add it! That way the people who like or dislike it can move on instead of wasting their time. Say what you want about Blizzard but at least they've embraced their game and the features in it. If you go on the WoW forums, people aren't debating on whether to have a LFD or not, they're debating on the aspects of it and how to make it better.

 

BW is acting like a 5 year old with this game - They can't decide what they want for Dinner.

 

If you're gonna give us a LFD, give us the full version, not some half-*** version. If you're gonna give us Combat logs, give us the full version, not some half-*** version. Either commit to the feature or don't release it at all.

 

Their indecisiveness is killing this game. They're trying to make everyone happy. LOL. You can't do that in life and you certainly can't do it with GAMERS. The addition or subtraction of the LFD alone will cost you subscriptions, so pick one and FOCUS on those type of players.

 

Just as we've discovered above, there is no either/or! BW can implement an LFG with an X-server toggle. Both groups are happy. Personally, I'd love to see how many people toggle same-server over X-server on that, but that's for another discussion.

[mothear]

BW has decided, they think it ruins a game which is why is the main source of my fear for the future of swtor, if devs are that dim what chance does this game have?

 

I rant about the lfg tool mainly hoping bioware will see it and get a clue. these other clueless people wont be convinced by something they read on a message board their minds may slowly change when they see games that resist having a cross server lfg system fail one after another. But i doubt theres too many more game devs out there dumb enough to beleive that a cross server lfg isnt good for an mmo so i dont think we will see many more triple aa mmos that release without them much less refuse to add them later.

 

• I rant about the LFG tool
  
• Bioware devs are dim
  
• Clueless people who don't agree with me
  

This is the sort of language that will actually hinder your desire for a LFG tool

Edited May 7, 2012 by mothear

[Blazenor]

So far nobody has really presented any real facts that a cross-server LFG would ruin a game. It seems like the main reason is the system will produce bad people/players, but the truth is no tool can make anyone bad because they were bad from the start.

 

I believe in the 95 / 5 Rule which is 95% of all people are good, it's the 5% that is the loudest, the rudest and the reason we need a police force in the world. Some of you have allow that 5% to tainted your perception of the system, I have played a lot of MMOs with such system and yes I had my run ins with the rude ones but also encounter good ones. I've had far more good experience than bad but the problem with some of you is that you have allow those bad experiences to over run the many good ones.

 

Unless anyone can present hard facts the the cross-server does not work then please stop stating it as a fact.

[Darkulous]

So far nobody has really presented any real facts that a cross-server LFG would ruin a game. It seems like the main reason is the system will produce bad people/players, but the truth is no tool can make anyone bad because they were bad from the start.

 

I believe in the 95 / 5 Rule which is 95% of all people are good, it's the 5% that is the loudest, the rudest and the reason we need a police force in the world. Some of you have allow that 5% to tainted your perception of the system, I have played a lot of MMOs with such system and yes I had my run ins with the rude ones but also encounter good ones. I've had far more good experience than bad but the problem with some of you is that you have allow those bad experiences to over run the many good ones.

 

Unless anyone can present hard facts the the cross-server does not work then please stop stating it as a fact.

 

The only fact in this argument is that the X-LFD takes people who want to group up(from a large pool of players) and brings them together.

[Blazenor]

The only fact in this argument is that the X-LFD takes people who want to group up(from a large pool of players) and brings them together.

 

So the real issue is that players who want to group up manually are hurt by players choosing to use the cross-server system or is it limiting the amount of players from within the same server?

 

I'm just trying to understand the root of this issue.

[mothear]

So far nobody has really presented any real facts that a cross-server LFG would ruin a game or is required. It seems like the main reason is the system will produce bad people/players, but the truth is no tool can make anyone bad because they were bad from the start although it will give them access to a larger audience

 

I believe in the 95 / 5 Rule which is 95% of all people are good, it's the 5% that is the loudest, the rudest and the reason we need a police force in the world. Some of you have allow that 5% to tainted your perception of the system, I have played a lot of MMOs with such system and yes I had my run ins with the rude ones but also encounter good ones. I've had far more good experience than bad but the problem with some of you is that you have allow those bad experiences to over run the many good ones. Opinions are like ... well you know the rest

 

Unless anyone can present hard facts the the cross-server does not work then please stop stating it as a fact.

 

I've added an extra few words to your first paragraph to make it a more complete and accurate statement.

 

Of course a cross server LFG will work, it's function is mere automation, but whether it is desirable is the question here and that is an opinion. The only people who have facts are Bioware i.e how many people are running flashpoints at specific times of day. No one has facts on either side. Both sides facts are opinions.

Edited May 7, 2012 by mothear

[Crazy_Person]

So the real issue is that players who want to group up manually are hurt by players choosing to use the cross-server system or is it limiting the amount of players from within the same server?

 

I'm just trying to understand the root of this issue.

 

The issues IMO are pretty simple.

 

1. Annoying players: People are jerks, and are more likely to show it on the internet when they are anonymous. With single server, there are consequences when you are a jerk to other people... it becomes harder to find groups. When you don't need that server, people are more likely to harass others if all you need to do is click on a queue again without any different results. Despite people wanting to say "well they were bad to begin with" the punishment will scare people off if people don't want to group with them. That I have seen enough of to belive

 

2. Community: This is the big one... playing with people who you will probably never see again intead of building up long term teams and friendships. This is valid... every guild invite I have gotten in this game was from someone I pugged with… much better system for finding guild mates than spamming, or demanding applications… why not play with them?

 

With that said... despite my experiences with X server DF leading to less favorable people, be it more troll responses in the big cities chat or people in the group just being annoying... The game seems to be at a point where certain arts just do not have enough people wanting to do the flashpoints where getting 20 groups with 5 bad ones would be better than the one I would have gotten...

 

The only solution I see is to enable it for level up game, but force community to forum at level 50 by requiring single server groups. People should not be skipping flashpoints, and therefore skipping learning their role in a group, in the name of a community that is not forming thanks to their just not being people who want to run the mid level stuff. Seems like mains are at 50 for the most part, and alts aren't getting to this flashpoint.

[Valkirus]

The only solution I see is to enable it for level up game, but force community to forum at level 50 by requiring single server groups. People should not be skipping flashpoints, and therefore skipping learning their role in a group, in the name of a community that is not forming thanks to their just not being people who want to run the mid level stuff. Seems like mains are at 50 for the most part, and alts aren't getting to this flashpoint.

 

How are you going to force players at level 50 to only use a same server LFG tool when there are not enough players on many servers to even form a group? We need a cross server one for end game content at level 50 for the same reasons you need them for Flashpoints at lower levels.

[Blazenor]

2. Community: This is the big one... playing with people who you will probably never see again intead of building up long term teams and friendships. This is valid... every guild invite I have gotten in this game was from someone I pugged with… much better system for finding guild mates than spamming, or demanding applications… why not play with them?

 

I do have to agree with this second point, every guild I ever join was from pugging with people from my own server, LFG system or not. I still believe a cross-server won't hurt the game that much, however it would be smarter to start with a same server system first then move to a cross-server.