Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Jaxarale]

X-server LFG tools have caused guilds to break up because now it doesn't become a group thing, it becomes a me thing.

 

What?

Seriously?

The only thing that makes it become a "me" thing is the "me" behind the computer...

People now days are lazy, disrespectful, greedy, whiny, drama queens and want instant gratification with the minimum amount of work put in. I would have to disagree with you that the LFG tool in a video game made people this way...

 

And if you believe that the people in guilds actually care more about others than themselves... I have a bridge down in Florida that I can sell you for a nice price...

 

People join guilds to improve their toons faster and easier, they join them to kill bosses and get shiny purple pixels, they join them because their friends are in them and it makes it easier to group up and level so they can get those shiny purple pixels, they join guilds as a status symbol, they join guilds because "we" can get stuff done that the game does not allow "me" to by myself,

There are a very very few people that join guilds just for the interaction of the group... they may enjoy the interaction WHILE they level that toon and try and get more purple shiny things or kill bosses or for whatever their goal is in a game...

 

No one in this world does anything without some level of self motivation being involved...

 

Lulz

[Hawksworth]

realid - requires sharing email addresses.

battletag - does not require sharing email addresses.

 

You're just asserting that this is the case, to people who don't agree that your basis is true.

 

So right now, your claim still looks like "voodoo"

 

 

So... by "gets it" you mean "is saying things that are flatly false" ?

 

All anyone is doing here is asserting things to other people, it can all be reagrded as speculative on both sides of the argument, so shall we all just stop posting or does every post need to come from a verifiable sources and peer reviewed refererces with citations and relevent studies. It's an internet forum...

[RocNessMonster]

xLFG caters to the lowest common denominator. Blizzard heard our words, WOTLK dungeons were *********** boring. Every dungeon was exactly the same, hallway with 3 trash pulls, room with boss, repeat til end. Blizzard tried to make dungeons more interesting (ie just requiring basic situational awareness) for Cataclysm only to face an onslaught of tears from the children who can't deal with paying attention and focusing for five minutes. Everything had to be nerfed to below average so kids could watch power rangers while they dungeon grind.

[Scar]

Yes. Your battlenet ID is based on your email. And why would'nt you want to share your email address with your friends? I mean..they would not be a friend if I thought they would sell my email address to spammers...

First of all "friend" is a misnomer in these games. It's more "acquaintance" or "stranger you just spent a hour with clearing out a dungeon and didn't hate."

 

So to answer your loaded "why would'nt you want to share your email address with your friends?" question: I wouldn't have problem with "friends". Actual friends. People I knew and trusted. And I suspect most people wouldn't.

 

But that's not really who we are talking about here.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Scar

[JessieColt]

A LFG Tool (Auto Group) makes looking for groups for Flashpoints/Planet heroics easier.

 

1. It doesn't punish guilds, because two or more guild members can group up, then hit the LFG tool for the other members/roles that they need.

1a. It would make it easier when you find 3 people on a planet ready to run, but have to spend 20+ minutes trying to find a 3rd.

 

2. LFG Tool would make it a whole heck of a lot easier for the non guilded/non location player to find a group to run with. (you wouldn't have to stay on the planet looking for a group for a planet specific group, you could go to fleet, head to your ship, etc.)

 

3. It would allow MORE people to play the game/quest/farm while waiting for a group to be built since it wouldn't require standing around in Fleet spamming General Chat with LFG messages.

 

4. It would allow players on low pop servers to participate in Flashpoints/Planet Heroics while actually AT that level because a Xserver tool would be able to pool players from both high and low pop servers.

4a. One of the biggest problems with low pop servers is the lack of people to group with for running Flashpoints and Planet Heroics.

 

Clearly there are restrictions that can be built into place to prevent some of the issues that are inherent with Xserver Auto Grouping.

 

A. need before greed would make the item BoP instead of BoE to help prevent Ninja Looting.

 

B. being able to need only on items that the toon you are on can actually use.

B1. A light armor wearer would be prevented from Needing on Heavy Armor items, etc.

 

C. The only Flashpoints/Heroics available to the group would be based on the lowest lvl character

 

D. you could pick between Random or Specific Flashpoint/Heroic when you use the LFG/Auto Group tool.

 

 

No, this post isn't about hating the LFG/Auto Group Tool, these are my reasons, and would like to see's for an LFG/Auto Group tool and more specifically, why I wouldn't, personally, hate to see one implemented.

[Cerion]

You can place a player you suspect is a gold farmer on your ignore list and never have to be concerned with running with them again. Reporting such players is allways a option too. Plus...it is not like we donot have gold farmers now in TOR.. Even the speed hackers still exist in TOR. Not having a cross server LFG tool may hinder them some, but at the cost of punishing the legit players from not being able to get a group for runs? How silly.

 

It's not about me putting them on ignore. This isn't a self-centered issue for me. It's about the health of the server, both economy and community. And why am I going to report a RMT/gold seller if I happened to be the one making the transaction, lol? I wouldn't know what was happening otherwise.

 

Yes they currently exist. That's like saying we shouldn't police for robbers because they're already happening. Giving them a tool to do their business more efficiently isn't smart.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Cerion

[Hawksworth]

fixed that for you.

 

Neither of which I am doing, this is all opinion, see previous post, speculative bla bla bla...

[Hupa]

Problem with LFG system is not that you get to play with people you don't know or that you end up partying with morons. Hell, if there is morons playing game problem is in game.

 

I played Rift about half of year, I never had bad party there even though I did most of the instances via LFG tool.

After Rift I went back to WoW and in first day I met 4-5 bad groups.

 

I dare to say that problems from LFG tool started when Blizzard decided to make Wotlks heroics short and easy. Sadly they implemented this revolutionary tool in Wotlk too. These 2 combined was awful, basically tank could solo intances and actually be best damage dealer too.

 

Sadly this all did give birth to new kind of gamers who demanted that instances has to be easy and short. This lead to situation where Catas instances were even easier (well not at start)...

 

Now imagine system where what ever you do you get rewarded. Would you be social? Would you work hard? Hell, I myself stopped talking in wow mostly because after 100th run in same instances people turned to numbers. I didn't care about them as a tank and they didn't care about me unless something stupid happened.

 

And this is whats wrong with LFG system. To make it short: LFG tool works if game is hard enough and instances aren't loot vending machines.

 

Same in damage meter too btw, it is abused only if a) people are unsure about themselves or b) everything is too easy.

[Valkirus]

It's not about me putting them on ignore. This isn't a self-centered issue for me. It's about the health of the server, both economy and community. And why am I going to report a RMT/gold seller if I happened to be the one making the transaction, lol? I wouldn't know what was happening otherwise.

 

Yes they currently exist. That's like saying we shouldn't police for robbers because they're already happening. Giving them a tool to do their business more efficiently isn't smart.

 

See the response Ferroz gave to this subject......

 

"....So... what game are you talking about where this is true?

 

It's certainly not WoW... you can't transfer items via cross server lfg in wow."

 

And the real "police" has to be BioWare. All the players can do it is report other players for suspects of being a gold farmer. And you do know players in a pug group can be kicked? I have seen this happen often in the pug raids I have done.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Valkirus

[JaHakk]

For me, I could care less about building a community. I just want to play the game and enjoy all aspects of it. Standing around and typing over and over again in general chat that Im looking for a group with the the little LFG icon over my head for lord knows how long is not fun to me so therefore I do not do it. I have tried it and really got bored of it after about 30 minutes. If you want to meet people there are plenty of online dating web sites you can subscribe to. If you are having to play a game to meet people there is something wrong there.

 

I say give me the LFG tool. I dont care if it is same server or cross server. I just want to be able to do flashpoints without having to do as I described above. Booooooorrrrrrrinnnnngggggg!!!!!:

 

[chaosdefined]

It's straightforward really but I'll spell it out for you. Playing with people who weren't on your realm led to less communication in pug's and more antisocial behaviour. This was probably because some peole figured hey, It's not like I'll ever see these people again. Having positive experiences in pug's leads to you adding that person and wanting to play with them again and before you know it they bring some of their frineds and so on an aso forth till hey, you actually know a few people and have a few friends on your server to play with.

 

This has alraedy been happening to me in TOR and it reminds me of the old days in WOW and it's pretty great tbh. No voodoo involved, can you understand this or do I need to break it down further for you?

 

Right so exactly what I said, nothing to do with the Tool at all just simply players stopped bothering about a community.

 

So the tool didn't kill the community the players did when they just didn't bother building one.

 

Like I said, LFG didn't stop people talking, that was all down to the players.

 

Surely you're smart enough to realise that if you have to force people to build a community, then it's nothing meaningful at all.

Edited May 1, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Valkirus]

For me, I could care less about building a community. I just want to play the game and enjoy all aspects of it. Standing around and typing over and over again in general chat that Im looking for a group with the the little LFG icon over my head for lord knows how long is not fun to me so therefore I do not do it. I have tried it and really got bored of it after about 30 minutes. If you want to meet people there are plenty of online dating web sites you can subscribe to. If you are having to play a game to meet people there is something wrong there.

 

I say give me the LFG tool. I dont care if it is same server or cross server. I just want to be able to do flashpoints without having to do as I described above. Booooooorrrrrrrinnnnngggggg!!!!!:

 

 

Same here. The hatred for a LFG tool is mostly about a cross server one. I am willing of course to try a same server one. But I still feel it will not work well on low pop ones. Time proves all things, but I have this gut feeling eventually they will need to go to cross server LFG. I just hope what ever they do works well before my sub ends this Aug.

[Jaxarale]

In short, the quality of grouping drops dramatically.

 

At least you can get a group unlike on most standard to light servers in SWTOR

 

The skill level of players drops dramatically.

 

See above...

 

The level of behavior when there is no accountability, drops dramatically.

 

See above...

 

I do not give a rats arse how someone acts or how bad they are... this isn't a who is better than who contest... its a "get some content done to get more purple stuff so I can raid" contest. I would much rather deal with an a-hole and actually run a few heroics a day as opposed to sitting on fleet for 8 hours spamming lfg and getting no response...

 

I would much rather be able to quest on planets while leveling (with 2-3 others on the same planet) and be queued up for the 4 man heroics and get them done before I leave no matter how long it takes for the queue to pop... at least I can get them done unlike on my first 2 level 50s.......

 

As for:

In fact, the only thing that did not drop were queue times.

 

I really have no idea what your talking about... if queue times are 2 hours as you stated (not sure what game your referring to because dps queues in wow were 15-20 mins max)... isn't that LOWER than sitting on fleet for 8 hours and NOT getting a group at all?

 

/does some quick napkin math.... no group all day, minus getting a group in 2 hours, carry the 1, divide by pi... hrmm herp derp... Ya, being able to get a group no matter how long it takes is still faster than not getting a group at all...

 

Jus sayin...

[Bloodstealer]

The biggest gripe really isn't community...to me that's crap. You have a chance to meet more people cross server then you do in your server. The biggest gripe is it takes away the communities ability to police itself in its groups. Say bob is a huge troll. always pulls wrong stuff, gets team wiped over and over, generally just doesn't give a rip. In the system now, the community has the ability to just not invite him to a group. He learns and either changes or leaves. LFG tool basically allows bob to troll as much as he wants and just reque up. that gripe i can definitely understand.

 

That's why you have an ignore button.. local server LFG will not see this issue... X-Server LFG will and that's the primary reasson I would not want to see it introduced, added to that I agree with other posters in that X-Server LFG does not promote community in any way shape or form, you dont what your getting, then they dissapear back to their own servers, likely trolling loot like said above.... X-Server promotes much worse community attitude than same server LFG imo.

[MasterKayote]

@OP..... I really wish people would specify whether theyre talking about same-server or cross-server LFG tools. There is a BIG difference between the two and only one of wish seems to get the most hate from those against them.

 

They BOTH solve the "standing around in fleet spamming general chat" problem.

Edited May 1, 2012 by MasterKayote

[Callianna]

I can only speak of my guild..which before cross server LFG tool was added in WoW....we had like 150 members..now 2 yrs later we have 237. It has had no negative impact on our guild. Maybe that is because within our own guild is the community we care most for and also all of us are casual players who like the idea of being able to experence end game content at our best play times.

 

I think some of the hate for a cross server LFG tool comes from hardcore raiding guilds who donot like how some less dedicated players can experence end game content. When Blizz added the LFR tool in WoW, they got alot of complaints on the forums, but those mostly were from the hardcore raiders and thankfully Blizz looked at thier own internal data rather than some complaining on the forums to make the right decision. Which has sence showed them it is very successful.

 

Being a a former wow player, it wasn't that "hardcore" raiders didn't want all players to be able to see endgame content, it was that the content was dumbed down considerably. Considering in the 25 man lfr group 1/2 of the raid can sit there not doing anything and still down the boss, that was the problem. Yes I did run a lfr in wow before I quit and it was laughable. I thought it was a good idea when they brought it up as more people would be able to see all the content but how it was implemented was terrible, I mean more than 1/2 the raid should to have to at least try lol.

[DarthTHC]

The problem for me isn't the LFG queueing system, it's the cross server system that sucks. MMORPG's are about meeting players, grouping and developing a community, how is this possible if you are grouping with players on other servers who you will never see again?

 

I have made a lot of friends over the years, many im still in contact with, quite a few i still game with, all i met through gaming and most through grouping.

 

If they implement the cross server system anyone joining a guild will do so cold, your chances of meeting a nice guild through grouping with them and joining that way is pretty much nil.

 

The community in swtor is bad enough as it is, this is just another nail in the coffin.

 

 

Wouldn't it be interesting if:

 

• You could add off-server people you group with to your friends list.
  
• The tool would give preference to friends - if friends are queued, the one that gets in earlier drags in the one who might be later in the queue, assuming roles fit.
  
• The tool didn't force itself to only group you with off-server players. (LDO?)
  
• The tool had a way for you to indicate whether you wanted to use x-server or single-server queuing.
  

[chaosdefined]

It's not rocket science, yet so many people fail to grasp the idea that other people aren't on as populated servers as them!

 

You lot seem to think that Single Server LFG uses good magic to make new players appear for low pop servers. And Cross Server uses bad magic to make players mean and nasty towards everyone.

Edited May 1, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Darkulous]

 

'People can ninja with immunity' - probably the only valid argument i can see so far, but seems as most items are usable bny anyone and their companion, and people already role on items for their companions, it again looses weight.

 

 

This reason actually holds no water with me. The second someone needs on a piece they don't need, they will get kicked. Also, if a player is a complete douchebag, they will get kicked. There is nothing holding back players to hit the "kick" button as opposed to running with people you got from the fleet. Right now players have to deal with douchebags and ninjas because nobody wants to go back to fleet and spam for another player for 1 -2 hours. Anyone who has actual extensive experience with a cross-server LFD knows that the tool MAKES players behave. Players who que in to LFD WANT to finish the Flashpoint and they won't do anything to jeapardize that from happening. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule and that is what the anti-LFDers hold on to, the exceptions.

[Darnu]

Yup, you gotta trade E-mail addresses for it but means you can chat and group with friends cross-server

 

not anymore. you get a battletag now. you trade those instead of giving out your email address

[Callianna]

It's not rocket science, yet so many people fail to grasp the idea that other people aren't on as populated servers as them!

 

You lot seem to think that Single Server LFG uses good magic to make new players appear for low pop servers. And Cross Server uses bad magic to make players mean and nasty towards everyone.

 

Think most people want the option of either choosing xlfg or server lfg. No magic involved.

[Cerion]

See the response Ferroz gave to this subject......

 

"....So... what game are you talking about where this is true?

 

It's certainly not WoW... you can't transfer items via cross server lfg in wow."

 

And the real "police" has to be BioWare. All the players can do it is report other players for suspects of being a gold farmer. And you do know players in a pug group can be kicked? I have seen this happen often in the pug raids I have done.

 

Sorry, I have Ferroz on ignore, so I'll have to address you. Can you not trade with other players while using LFG finder..I mean, once you're in the instance and all? I don't play WoW, so have no experience with their tool.

[Valkirus]

Being a a former wow player, it wasn't that "hardcore" raiders didn't want all players to be able to see endgame content, it was that the content was dumbed down considerably. Considering in the 25 man lfr group 1/2 of the raid can sit there not doing anything and still down the boss, that was the problem. Yes I did run a lfr in wow before I quit and it was laughable. I thought it was a good idea when they brought it up as more people would be able to see all the content but how it was implemented was terrible, I mean more than 1/2 the raid should to have to at least try lol.

 

Sorry, but you are exaggerating. Sure it is easier to do Dragon Soul using the LFR than the normal version. But you still need to have most of the raid group do the fights correctly. And Wiping still does occur. But what matters is you do not have to use it if you think it is too easy. It does what it is intended to do very well and is a challenge for a lot of players. Maybe not for the best ones. But they have other options .

[chaosdefined]

This reason actually holds no water with me. The second someone needs on a piece they don't need, they will get kicked. Also, if a player is a complete douchebag, they will get kicked. There is nothing holding back players to hit the "kick" button as opposed to running with people you got from the fleet. Right now players have to deal with douchebags and ninjas because nobody wants to go back to fleet and spam for another player for 1 -2 hours. Anyone who has actual extensive experience with a cross-server LFD knows that the tool MAKES players behave. Players who que in to LFD WANT to finish the Flashpoint and they won't do anything to jeapardize that from happening. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule and that is what the anti-LFDers hold on to, the exceptions.

 

Exactly. Currently as it is with groups, only the Group Leader can kick anyone. Which is a nightmare if they're the one ninja-ing. And I've had that had a couple of times already.

[Scar]

It's not rocket science, yet so many people fail to grasp the idea that other people aren't on as populated servers as them!

 

You lot seem to think that Single Server LFG uses good magic to make new players appear for low pop servers. And Cross Server uses bad magic to make players mean and nasty towards everyone.

 

That's an oversimplification of the issue.

 

People are under the belief that cross server LFG's work the way they did in WoW circa WoTLK where the groups were very temporary, there wasn't much dialog, and you almost never ever saw any of those you would be put together with again. Which did nothing to add to the community feel, or individuals ability to find like minded people on a more permanent basis.

 

I'm actually all for LFG tools. Cross serever I would be more hesitant if they couldn't solve the having cross servers easily, and unobtrusively, added to your friends list.

 

But if they could solve that, have at it. In fact, it would solve a great number of issues. Mainly the ones you outlined: dead server people to get in touch with other people. To take the community from a server level, to a game level.

 

Having said that, there are more real pressing logistical issues for cross server lfg tools in the means that TOR is designed.

 

In the FP's and OP's, cross server would and/or could function exactly like WoW: everyone called to a separately created instance and you leave it and head back to your origin server.

 

However, the H2's and H4's not associated with instances start proposing much more interesting logistical issues. I think that's what the real issue that BW is having.