Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Valkirus]

I've added an extra few words to your first paragraph to make it a more complete and accurate statement.

 

Of course a cross server LFG will work, it's function is mere automation, but whether it is desirable is the question here and that is an opinion. The only people who have facts are Bioware i.e how many people are running flashpoints at specific times of day. No one has facts on either side. Both sides facts are opinions.

 

I can give you one personal fact. Last night..at prime time on a Sat evening..I spent close to a hour in Fleet , flagged myself " Looking for any level 50 Flashpoint" and never got a whisper. The only other one I saw in General channel saying anything about LFG was one player who wanted to run a lower one and a few about PVP warfronts. I finally gave up..went and did a couple dailies and logged. I can tell you for a fact..I will not continue doing that for months..

[Crazy_Person]

How are you going to force players at level 50 to only use a same server LFG tool when there are not enough players on many servers to even form a group? We need a cross server one for end game content at level 50 for the same reasons you need them for Flashpoints at lower levels.

 

Once you get to level 50... you aren't going to out level/under level ythe people you meet at the same rate as the level up game. If there aren't enough 50s to get a group going then it is time for a server merge... which needs to be done sooner rather than later.

 

The level up game is it's own problem just because of the nature of how quickly people pass up the content... if it is still an issue at endgame then it is a server issue from what I can see, and that needs to be addressed in a different way.

[Valkirus]

Once you get to level 50... you aren't going to out level/under level ythe people you meet at the same rate as the level up game. If there aren't enough 50s to get a group going then it is time for a server merge... which needs to be done sooner rather than later.

 

The level up game is it's own problem just because of the nature of how quickly people pass up the content... if it is still an issue at endgame then it is a server issue from what I can see, and that needs to be addressed in a different way.

 

A cross server LFG tool would do away with the need to do any server merges for the purpose of getting enough players to do end game content.

[Crazy_Person]

A cross server LFG tool would do away with the need to do any server merges for the purpose of getting enough players to do end game content.

Yes it would also do major damage to any sort of server community, and the social aspect of MMOs is important (no not social points which is not something I saw much need for at any point((.

 

In the level up game... if groups aren't forming because the design of the game has poeple quickly passing it. IF groups aren't forming then community is not forming anyway. If you do it at the point where you are suposeoe to be finding guilds to progress wiht... comminity takes a massive long term hit.

[Mallorik]

Once you get to level 50... you aren't going to out level/under level ythe people you meet at the same rate as the level up game. If there aren't enough 50s to get a group going then it is time for a server merge... which needs to be done sooner rather than later.

 

The level up game is it's own problem just because of the nature of how quickly people pass up the content... if it is still an issue at endgame then it is a server issue from what I can see, and that needs to be addressed in a different way.

 

Its still trying to artificialy make game content more dificult to access, something that drives people away, not keep them subbed.

 

And then theres another real problem other than the lfg tool but related. people dont really want to do fp's at level 50, theres really no need to. I think bioware is still trying to find a good gear pregression track, but the one that is in right now is probably the worse one ive seen in any game i can think of and really gives no insentive to do flash points after level 49.

[mothear]

I can give you one personal fact. Last night..at prime time on a Sat evening..I spent close to a hour in Fleet , flagged myself " Looking for any level 50 Flashpoint" and never got a whisper. The only other one I saw in General channel saying anything about LFG was one player who wanted to run a lower one and a few about PVP warfronts. I finally gave up..went and did a couple dailies and logged. I can tell you for a fact..I will not continue doing that for months..

 

Sorry that has no bearing on x-server LFG, it's only an anecdote. I can say they same thing, i.e. did my last LFG run in WoW and had a real jerk who did x, decided enough was enough and quit the game. When server transfers and same server LFG come in this should not happen, if you avail yourself of the transfer. If you don't, well that's not Bioware's fault. If you transfer and similar issues are still occurring after a few months then I'm sure, with the data they hold, Bioware will consider x-server.

[KickBone]

maybe if they ever implement the LFG tool I'll be coming back. Until then.... I am tired of spamming chat looking for people just so i can finish that stupid 4 man heroic and I can leave the freekin planet in peace or never being able to experience the instances because it literally takes hours to get a group together and even then it usually falls apart before it's fully assembled because people wait so long that they don't have time to wait for that last person we need.

 

I like this game i really do but the lack of LFG tool and 4 man heroics (I don't want to leave a planet until I'm done with all the quests) make this very frustrating game to play.

[mothear]

The issues IMO are pretty simple.

The only solution I see is to enable it for level up game, but force community to forum at level 50 by requiring single server groups. People should not be skipping flashpoints, and therefore skipping learning their role in a group, in the name of a community that is not forming thanks to their just not being people who want to run the mid level stuff. Seems like mains are at 50 for the most part, and alts aren't getting to this flashpoint.

 

I actually suggested this in a previous thread but was advised by those wanting x-server that it was an unacceptable compromise.

[Valkirus]

Yes it would also do major damage to any sort of server community, and the social aspect of MMOs is important (no not social points which is not something I saw much need for at any point((.

 

In the level up game... if groups aren't forming because the design of the game has poeple quickly passing it. IF groups aren't forming then community is not forming anyway. If you do it at the point where you are suposeoe to be finding guilds to progress wiht... comminity takes a massive long term hit.

 

I disagree. I once again for your benefit will give you a personal experence with my guild in WoW. Before cross server LFG was added , our guild had about 150 members. All of them I would rate as casual gamers. Ones who have no interest in becoming hardcore raiders. After cross server LFG was added and today, our membership is at 238. We do a lot of stuff together , inc using the new cross server Looking for Raid tool. We enjoy running those because it has been tuned to be more casual gamer friendly. The rewards are not as good as the normal and heroic versions, but still allow the player to experence the end game content and get gear which is better than the 5 man heroics.

 

Do we occasionally get bad groups/runs? Yes, but most are successful and it beats not getting to run any at all. The point is, the cross server LFG has had no negative impact on our guild atleast in WoW and the two top raiding guilds on our server are still strong and active. Doing thier heroic raids weekly.

 

There are ways to deal with jerks you may come across when using the cross server LFG tool. The ignore list works great and once you put a player on your ignore list, they will never be grouped with you again. My guild is Divine Elements on the Stormrage server if you would like to look it up.

[Mallorik]

I disagree. I once again for your benefit will give you a personal experence with my guild in WoW. Before cross server LFG was added , our guild had about 150 members. All of them I would rate as casual gamers. Ones who have no interest in becoming hardcore raiders. After cross server LFG was added and today, our membership is at 238. We do a lot of stuff together , inc using the new cross server Looking for Raid tool. We enjoy running those because it has been tuned to be more casual gamer friendly. The rewards are not as good as the normal and heroic versions, but still allow the player to experence the end game content and get gear which is better than the 5 man heroics.

 

Do we occasionally get bad groups/runs? Yes, but most are successful and it beats not getting to run any at all. The point is, the cross server LFG has had no negative impact on our guild atleast in WoW and the two top raiding guilds on our server are still strong and active. Doing thier heroic raids weekly.

 

There are ways to deal with jerks you may come across when using the cross server LFG tool. The ignore list works great and once you put a player on your ignore list, they will never be grouped with you again. My guild is Divine Elements on the Stormrage server if you would like to look it up.

 

I really hope bioware reads posts like this, if they could actualy poll people in this game who dont come to the message boards i think they would finaly realize how wrong they are.

[Valkirus]

Sorry that has no bearing on x-server LFG, it's only an anecdote. I can say they same thing, i.e. did my last LFG run in WoW and had a real jerk who did x, decided enough was enough and quit the game. When server transfers and same server LFG come in this should not happen, if you avail yourself of the transfer. If you don't, well that's not Bioware's fault. If you transfer and similar issues are still occurring after a few months then I'm sure, with the data they hold, Bioware will consider x-server.

 

Sorry..but it was what happened to me and was not the first time, but rather typical lately, so it does have a lot to do with a lack of a cross server tool as far as I am concerned, which I know it means nothing to you personally. If BioWare loses my sub and many others who feel like I do..because of a lack of a tool to get me to experence end game content in a timely manner...then it will be BioWare's fault. And for your info..I am not changing my char's names when I move to another server. Once again..if that is the solution..then it will be BioWare's fault.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Valkirus

[mothear]

I disagree. I once again for your benefit will give you a personal experence with my guild in WoW. Before cross server LFG was added , our guild had about 150 members. All of them I would rate as casual gamers. Ones who have no interest in becoming hardcore raiders. After cross server LFG was added and today, our membership is at 238. We do a lot of stuff together , inc using the new cross server Looking for Raid tool. We enjoy running those because it has been tuned to be more casual gamer friendly. The rewards are not as good as the normal and heroic versions, but still allow the player to experence the end game content and get gear which is better than the 5 man heroics.

 

Do we occasionally get bad groups/runs? Yes, but most are successful and it beats not getting to run any at all. The point is, the cross server LFG has had no negative impact on our guild atleast in WoW and the two top raiding guilds on our server are still strong and active. Doing thier heroic raids weekly.

 

There are ways to deal with jerks you may come across when using the cross server LFG tool. The ignore list works great and once you put a player on your ignore list, they will never be grouped with you again. My guild is Divine Elements on the Stormrage server if you would like to look it up.

 

Do you remember what your membership was at the end of WotLK. I only ask because it is much more likely, in my opinion that the increase is due to guild perks. In WoW it has become more difficult to start new guilds because people tend to gravitate towards the freebies provided from high level guilds.

 

I don't know whether the upcoming LFG will include operations, I had thought it was just flashpoints we were discussing. I would have thought LFG is mainly used for PUGing, not guild runs, so whilst it's a nice story I wouldn't have thought it has any bearing on the discussion.

[Crazy_Person]

I disagree. I once again for your benefit will give you a personal experence with my guild in WoW. Before cross server LFG was added , our guild had about 150 members. All of them I would rate as casual gamers. Ones who have no interest in becoming hardcore raiders. After cross server LFG was added and today, our membership is at 238. We do a lot of stuff together , inc using the new cross server Looking for Raid tool. We enjoy running those because it has been tuned to be more casual gamer friendly. The rewards are not as good as the normal and heroic versions, but still allow the player to experence the end game content and get gear which is better than the 5 man heroics.

 

Do we occasionally get bad groups/runs? Yes, but most are successful and it beats not getting to run any at all. The point is, the cross server LFG has had no negative impact on our guild atleast in WoW and the two top raiding guilds on our server are still strong and active. Doing thier heroic raids weekly.

 

There are ways to deal with jerks you may come across when using the cross server LFG tool. The ignore list works great and once you put a player on your ignore list, they will never be grouped with you again. My guild is Divine Elements on the Stormrage server if you would like to look it up.

How did you find those members? Do you just invite anyone (nothing wrong with that), do you have an application process? I still prefer playing with people to find if I want to join their guild or not.

 

A guilds size only tells me so much but still...

 

The ignore list is only minimally effective... sure I won't be grouped with him again but that only drops my chances by a small amount to begin with and there are a bunch of others just like him out there... where on a single server they fear the consaquences.. Even so it does not encourage the long term teams that I want to find in this game @50.

 

While it is still possible to do... I think when people need to play together they are more likely to want to team up if they enjoye achother and if all goes well. The X server DF will be needed at some point... IMO in a limited form it is needed soon.

 

Interesting to hear other well thought out points though.

[JeramieCrowe]

Why are we still arguing about this?

 

Just implement a LFG tool with an X-server toggle and call it a day. Both viewpoints get served.

[Jaxarale]

The issues IMO are pretty simple.

Not so much, there is a lot of emotion tied up in this question and that makes it VERY complex... plus there are hundreds of differing opinions and then shades of grey on each opinion.

 

 

1. Annoying players: People are jerks, and are more likely to show it on the internet when they are anonymous.

Profiling people is dangerous, putting everyone in a group like this because your personal experience has been bad is a slippery slope. I have not come to that conclusion and I have been playing since Ruins of Kunark came out in EQ1.

With single server, there are consequences when you are a jerk to other people...

This is in great debate, many people have said that if you try and post xxx is a troll or ninja, or you say it in /trade in WoW... people either do not believe you, or you get accused of being one yourself. The only people that this really has effect on is your personal buddys that you run with.

 

it becomes harder to find groups.

This is open to huge debate also. I know many people that dont care at all about loot and if you need on something and ninja it... they just want to run with competent people and get dungeons done to get valor.

 

When you don't need that server, people are more likely to harass others if all you need to do is click on a queue again without any different results.

Again a very dangerous statement... no proof of this is in evidence, this is your personal observation. Saying someone is more likely to harass someone due to a LFG tool? Wow...

 

2. Community: This is the big one... playing with people who you will probably never see again intead of building up long term teams and friendships.

The problem with this is many people do not care about a community and just want to play the game. Many do not see a community at all, they see themselves mindlessly doing /tank LF Flashpoint xyz... and getting no group and logging off.

 

This is valid... every guild invite I have gotten in this game was from someone I pugged with… much better system for finding guild mates than spamming, or demanding applications… why not play with them?

Another VERY subjective point... If you are a very casual player then yes, this statement may be true, if you take the game a bit more seriously... applications and vent interviews are not only the norm... but just the beginning of being able to join a guild.

 

where getting 20 groups with 5 bad ones would be better than the one I would have gotten...

 

This is where it seems the point is made, everything else kind of falls by the wayside... if you cant get a group and cant do content... you wont stay subbed for this game and you will never meet people to begin with.

 

The only solution I see is to enable it for level up game, but force community to forum at level 50 by requiring single server groups.

Yet another very dangerous idea... forcing people to do anything almost like cutting your own throat... people pay money to play how they want to play... not how they are dictated to play. That being said there is enough forced on us as is, and enough options taken away as is, it would be best not to add another one.

 

People should not be skipping flashpoints, and therefore skipping learning their role in a group, in the name of a community that is not forming thanks to their just not being people who want to run the mid level stuff.

Very good point, I agree 100% and I think this is where the pro LFG people are standing... they just want to do content and cant with how things are now... for whatever reason, be it low pop server, anti social fleet, no one on planets... whatever the problem is.

 

Seems like mains are at 50 for the most part, and alts aren't getting to this flashpoint.

I agree again, I have 2 50's and neither saw a FP past Black Talon on the way to 50... and trust me, I looked. I have played every FP with my Jedi Consular because I rolled her on Fatman (by far the highest pop server)

[mothear]

Sorry..but it was what happened to me and was not the first time, but rather typical lately, so it does have a lot to do with a lack of a cross server tool as far as I am concerned, which I know it means nothing to you personally. If BioWare loses my sub and many others who feel like I do..because of a lack of a tool to get me to experence end game content in a timely manner...then it will be BioWare's fault. And for your info..I am not changing my char's names when I move to another server. Once again..if that is the solution..then it will be BioWare's fault.

 

That's fine and I have no reason to disbelieve you. I won't even suggest you are exaggerating because it is your experience, same as other people have different experiences across many games. All I was pointing out is this is not a fact as to why a x-server LFG is required.

 

Why would you have to change your characters name(s), are they all so special and distinct that everyone is using them on various servers?

[Valkirus]

Do you remember what your membership was at the end of WotLK. I only ask because it is much more likely, in my opinion that the increase is due to guild perks. In WoW it has become more difficult to start new guilds because people tend to gravitate towards the freebies provided from high level guilds.

 

I don't know whether the upcoming LFG will include operations, I had thought it was just flashpoints we were discussing. I would have thought LFG is mainly used for PUGing, not guild runs, so whilst it's a nice story I wouldn't have thought it has any bearing on the discussion.

 

It was around 200. Sure the guild perks are nice and we are a level max 25 guild rating. We donot take just anyone..in fact we are not a "open" enrollment guild. You have to know someone in the guild who will reccommend them. We only have one rule..which is to respect others in word and deed. And we feel strongly about that. It has a lot to do with this discussion and the LFG should also include Operations IMO.

[Valkirus]

How did you find those members? Do you just invite anyone (nothing wrong with that), do you have an application process? I still prefer playing with people to find if I want to join their guild or not.

 

A guilds size only tells me so much but still...

 

The ignore list is only minimally effective... sure I won't be grouped with him again but that only drops my chances by a small amount to begin with and there are a bunch of others just like him out there... where on a single server they fear the consaquences.. Even so it does not encourage the long term teams that I want to find in this game @50.

 

While it is still possible to do... I think when people need to play together they are more likely to want to team up if they enjoye achother and if all goes well. The X server DF will be needed at some point... IMO in a limited form it is needed soon.

 

Interesting to hear other well thought out points though.

 

We donot have a open enrollment. You have to know someone in the guild who can reccommend you. Word of mouth spreads you know? We have only one rule....respect others at all times , in word or deed and we take that to heart. My point is...as far the healthy functioning community with-in my guild atleast, the cross server LFG has not had any negative impact on it. It is up to the members within a guild and more importantly the leadership of those guilds what type of community you will have. We team up often in all kinds of events, and on occasion have did all guild raid runs.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Valkirus

[Valkirus]

That's fine and I have no reason to disbelieve you. I won't even suggest you are exaggerating because it is your experience, same as other people have different experiences across many games. All I was pointing out is this is not a fact as to why a x-server LFG is required.

 

Why would you have to change your characters name(s), are they all so special and distinct that everyone is using them on various servers?

 

It's a reason for me to want one..lol. And they will not let you transfer a char to a server when your char's name is the same as some other char on the server you are going to. May not happen..but it is possible and you..the one transfering would have to change it. Not a option for me. I role play and my char's names are very important. I donot know how common they are and donot care.

[mothear]

We donot have a open enrollment. You have to know someone in the guild who can reccommend you. Word of mouth spreads you know? We have only one rule....respect others at all times , in word or deed and we take that to heart. My point is...as far the a healthy functioning community with-in my guild atleast, the cross server LFG has not had any negative impact on it. It is up to the members within a guild and more importanly the leadership of those guilds what type of community you will have. We team up often in all kinds of events, and on occasion have did all guild raid runs.

 

The question here is probably, would your guild community be affected in WoW if there was no LFG tool for 85 instances? The answer is probably no, the point is LFG is meant for putting PUG's together, not for guilds (although they obviously use it for the freebie valor points).

 

I believe that when people use the word 'community' they are talking about the server wide community. Your version of community may differ.

[Valkirus]

The question here is probably, would your guild community be affected in WoW if there was no LFG tool for 85 instances? The answer is probably no, the point is LFG is meant for putting PUG's together, not for guilds (although they obviously use it for the freebie valor points).

 

I believe that when people use the word 'community' they are talking about the server wide community. Your version of community may differ.

 

I think it would be affected without a cross server LFG tool. Because our guild is made up of casual gamers. Ones who donot want to logon at a specail time to do a raid or a 5 man heroic even. We all have the sense of freedom knowing we can log on whenever...and stay as long or short as we want and noone will get upset about it. The cross server LFG tool is looked at by EVERYONE in my guild as a positive thing. It has helped to inspire many in my guild to want to play.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Valkirus

[JeramieCrowe]

I think it would be affected without a cross server LFG tool. Because our guild is made up of casual gamers. Ones who donot want to logon at a specail time to do a raid or a 5 man heroic even. We all have the sense of freedom knowing we can log on whenever...and stay as long or short as we want and noone will get upset about it. The cross server LFG tool is looked at by EVERYONE in my guild as a positive thing. It has helped to inspire many in my guild to want to play.

 

Soooo... if you had an LFG tool that you can toggle the X-server function to "ON", and he had an LFG tool that he can turn the X-server function to "OFF", where is the problem?

 

We should be teaming up and asking BioWare to make one instead of bickering over nothing now that a solution is here.

 

Unless you think that not enough people would use the X-server toggle? That people have to be "forced" to so that you can have your group?

Edited May 7, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Skidrowbro]

Soooo... if you had an LFG tool that you can toggle the X-server function to "ON", and he had an LFG tool that he can turn the X-server function to "OFF", where is the problem?

 

We should be teaming up and asking BioWare to make one instead of bickering over nothing now that a solution is here.

 

Unless you think that not enough people would use the X-server toggle? That people have to be "forced" to so that you can have your group?

 

It becomes a problem when people who try to genuinely RPG the "old" fashioned way have to battle against the path of least resistance. What if Bioware is trying to break the mold and make an actual MMORPG where it's not all about telporting to instances all the time? Maybe the Pro X-LFG people are in the wrong game, is it their right to change that?

[Valkirus]

Soooo... if you had an LFG tool that you can toggle the X-server function to "ON", and he had an LFG tool that he can turn the X-server function to "OFF", where is the problem?

 

We should be teaming up and asking BioWare to make one instead of bickering over nothing now that a solution is here.

 

Unless you think that not enough people would use the X-server toggle? That people have to be "forced" to so that you can have your group?

 

hehe..I allready agreed with your suggestion. But I am not so sure from a technical point of view if such a tool could be added. I think if it was implemented with a toggle off/on a cross server LFG tool, the majority of the players would most certainly use the cross server selection. Logic would prevail. You want to spend a hour or longer and maybe not even get a grp or get one within a reasonable time?

 

Players in very active group run guilds or ones on high pop servers would be the ones most likely not to use it. Which would be understandable. End result would be however a large enough pool of players to make up groups using the cross server version. Noone is ever "'forced" to use a LFG tool. Not in WoW or any other MMO.

[JeramieCrowe]

It becomes a problem when people who try to genuinely RPG the "old" fashioned way have to battle against the path of least resistance. What if Bioware is trying to break the mold and make an actual MMORPG where it's not all about telporting to instances all the time? Maybe the Pro X-LFG people are in the wrong game, is it their right to change that?

 

Hell, I know that, for me, even if the X-server toggle was on it, I'd leave it "OFF". And if I couldn't get a group? So be it. I'll wait for guildies and do something else. Not like I haven't done that already.