Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Perfidius]

Hoping someone can explain why the hate for the LFG tool that seems to abound on these forums, and if my thinking is so way off mark! Having played MMOs since Ultima Online, through SWG, WOW, RIFT, EQ, STO, LOTRO etc, I have seen various implementations of the above tool, and can honestly say, the tool improves MY gaming experience massively, just wondering why the hate, and how it has such a negative impact on others

 

So far the common arguments I have seen, which dont seem to hold any weight are:

 

'It ruins the community' - really? I fail to see how general chat spam of "LF2M Healer and Tank" over and over quantifies as community (and normally in caps)!! Those who argue you should make your own friends and guild mates, well then clearly you are very fortunate to have so many friends playing SWTOR at the same time who are wanting to instance at the same time that you wont need the LFG Tool, so again, I fail to see why the hate.

 

'All that is needed is a Global General Chat' - this would be great, but again would just be filled with spam, and also all the idiotic chatter about chuck norris, or how someone did something to someone elses mom, and actually have very little impact on LFG due to your message being lost in nonsense, not to mention that you have to watch the chat closely incase you miss your option.

 

'It ruins immersion' - normally from pvpers who like to gank people onroute to instance, or from people who want to see peeps travelling. Seems as all the instances are on the Fleets, then again, a LFG tool, even with insta telepor, would hardly ruin this?

 

'People can ninja with immunity' - probably the only valid argument i can see so far, but seems as most items are usable bny anyone and their companion, and people already role on items for their companions, it again looses weight.

 

As I see it the LFG tool means I dont have to spend Ages trying to find a group by sitting in Imperial fleet watching the drivel in general chat, I can play the game, with friends, whilst waiting for my group to assemble. Those who are violently opposed to this dont have to use it afterall, and can continue to spam, or play with their friends. The only valid reason I can think of is that maybe those who oppose it so much are such terrible players, they are afraid their 'friends' will abandon them if it is easier to get a group?!!!

 

Those of you who take time to post constructive posts, thanks, hope it will help to educate/Develop my understanding. Those who just flame, OMG LFG tool is terribad with no justification, please save it for one of the other million threads about LFG tools!

[Faeldawn]

The problem for me isn't the LFG queueing system, it's the cross server system that sucks. MMORPG's are about meeting players, grouping and developing a community, how is this possible if you are grouping with players on other servers who you will never see again?

 

I have made a lot of friends over the years, many im still in contact with, quite a few i still game with, all i met through gaming and most through grouping.

 

If they implement the cross server system anyone joining a guild will do so cold, your chances of meeting a nice guild through grouping with them and joining that way is pretty much nil.

 

The community in swtor is bad enough as it is, this is just another nail in the coffin.

[mothermoy]

The biggest gripe really isn't community...to me that's crap. You have a chance to meet more people cross server then you do in your server. The biggest gripe is it takes away the communities ability to police itself in its groups. Say bob is a huge troll. always pulls wrong stuff, gets team wiped over and over, generally just doesn't give a rip. In the system now, the community has the ability to just not invite him to a group. He learns and either changes or leaves. LFG tool basically allows bob to troll as much as he wants and just reque up. that gripe i can definitely understand. Edited May 1, 2012 by mothermoy

[Gemble]

How about this...

 

a LFG tool.. that uses only ppl in your own server.

[chaosdefined]

MMORPG's are about meeting players,

 

I find it amusing how you state this and then go on to say you don't want to play with people on other servers.

Edited May 1, 2012 by chaosdefined

[ironix]

How about this...

 

a LFG tool.. that uses only ppl in your own server.

 

Sadly this solution screws over low population servers, though I agree that cross-server PVP & LFG makes it more difficult for communities to develop.

[TheNotorius]

It would be fun, if you (after the Flashpoint finishes or a player leave) could rate from 1 to 5 every other players you ran with.

 

So, when you join a FP you can see the [1 - 5] Rating of each player. Maybe you can even search a group only with (for example) 4+ rating players (There would be a lot of complications though).

 

This way, people will be afraid to do bad things

Edited May 1, 2012 by TheNotorius

[chaosdefined]

Sadly this solution screws over low population servers, though I agree that cross-server PVP & LFG makes it more difficult for communities to develop.

 

So a Cross-Server with the option of searching Single Server.

 

Like I said though, the idea people have of a community is a long dead dream. Servers are simply too big now to have a small-town community feel to it.

 

Besides, there's nothing stopping people building their own community on their server even with a Cross-Server LFG in it. They just don't. Not the LFG's fault.

[chaosdefined]

It would be fun, if you (after the Flashpoint finishes or a player leave) could rate from 1 to 5 every other players you ran with.

 

So, when you join a FP you can see the [1 - 5] Rating of each player. Maybe you can even search a group only with (for example) 4+ rating players (There would be a lot of complications though).

 

This way, people will be afraid to do bad things

 

Sadly human nature dictates this would be grossly abused.

[Katahn]

The problem for me isn't the LFG queueing system, it's the cross server system that sucks. MMORPG's are about meeting players, grouping and developing a community, how is this possible if you are grouping with players on other servers who you will never see again?

 

I have made a lot of friends over the years, many im still in contact with, quite a few i still game with, all i met through gaming and most through grouping.

 

If they implement the cross server system anyone joining a guild will do so cold, your chances of meeting a nice guild through grouping with them and joining that way is pretty much nil.

 

The community in swtor is bad enough as it is, this is just another nail in the coffin.

 

This is it in a nutshell, that and the fact that cross-server tool won't help you find groups for heroics (since they aren't 100% instanced in most cases).

 

To preserve "community" a cross-server tool would...

 

1. Have to be limited to servers of the same type, meaning all servers of the same type go in their own queues. The PvE-RP servers in one pool, the PvE in another, the PvP in a third, and PvP-RP in a fourth. We pick our servers based on playstyle - cross-server that puts you with anyone and everyone renders server types completely meaningless. If it was important to have types defined, it is important to preserve the meaning behind it.

 

2. Would have to allow me to /friend a character on another server (or them to /friend the character I am playing). Not a RealID system - I don't want every casual game friend to have that level of tracking on me.

 

3. Would have to allow me to communicate with cross-server friends and form groups with them - ideally the tool should be used to fill in that last group slot that is needed - not always be used to find 3 other people to group with,

 

4. Would have to include an allowance for free server transfers from my current server to any other server in my type group (see point #1) - this way if I meet cool people they will be playing on the same server type and I can always transfer my character to join their guild. The converse applies too - I can find cool people for my guild.

 

5. Would have to have an unlimited ignore list and not group you with anyone on your ignore list.

 

6. Would have to have all of the safeguards other companies discovered were necessary - restricted NBG based on class, limitations on vote-kicking people, etc.

 

7. Would have to take into account "spacebar warrior" vs. "wants to enjoy the story" - and then enforce it via the game assuming spacebars are being hit or doing nothing when they are in order to prevent griefers from queueing for "spacebar warrior" and then refusing to spacebar.

 

8. Would have to include all of the heroic missions for selection and for those that are 100% instanced allow for the same-cross-server matching.

 

9. Should not provide any bonus rewards for being used, should not provide bonuses to make the run even easier based on how many random people you've added. It should be a supplement to forming traditional groups and forming lasting friendships from running with the same people over multiple sessions.

[Faeldawn]

I find it amusing how you state this and then go on to say you don't want to play with people on other servers.

 

Why is that amusing? I want to meet players sure, but whats the point if your never going to see them again?

[turjake]

Not sure why, really. My theory is that this so called community that is ruined maybe existed in early day wow. It had members of some of servers hardcore or wannabe hc guilds and few well geared friends. They could do those fast instances without any risk of getting a newb with them. They shared their blacklists of persons not to group with. They were the elite, atleast they could keep the illusion since anyone willing to join their community had to work for it. They had easy and fast instances since they had a pool of well geared and skilled people at hand so they didnt need any LFG tools. The noobs and other casuals could do the daily kill 10 rats or what ever the casuals do for all they cared.

 

Now, even non guilded can have decent gear, can join instances fast, can even do some raids. The old (and good) community is ruined. It becomes harder and harder to keep up the elitism.

 

Anyway I dont like much the spam a global LFG channel will be filled, but it is much more flexible way to look for group than most of the LFG tools I have seen. I havent seen what wow has atm. I think the benefits of the LFG tool (cross server or not) are greater than some annoyance of possible spam or ninjas. Those can be prevented too with a careful thinking of loot system and ignore system.

[PalawaJoko]

Some people think it's social to spam LFG on the chat and never get a group of people to actually spend time with lol

[Faeldawn]

Some people think it's social to spam LFG on the chat and never get a group of people to actually spend time with lol

 

This is the real problem of course, the servers are splintered into instanced zones in the first place so finding players to group with on your own server is a tricky task at the best of times.

 

I like the earlier idea of an option to queue for your own server or cross server, although i'll bet most will queue cross server because a lot of players want insta-pop instances. Still it'd be interresting to see what the reality of this would be.

[RKLimes]

If your community is worth it's salt, it will be unaffected by a cross server lfg.

 

Server transfers are not a solution to the problem of too many servers, or low pop servers.

Those of you who babble about how important community is are hypocrites if you suggest "switch servers, and it'll be fine" or "just reroll, man!"

 

What if we like the 14 other people on our server but we'd just like to fill out a group when some of them can't be online?

[Gemble]

There was a time.. when LFG tool came in on wow.. that i missed the days of actually LFG..

 

and i understand the comment about the guy who says meeting new players..

 

as.. when you LFM.. and find some good dps or healz/tanks.. you add them.. you end up running fp's together more..

 

that will all go out the window with a LFG tool.. at this stage.. id be in favor of leaving it out..

 

However.. i am on a populated server.. perhaps make it available for players who stay on light servers.

[Fuzzytoad]

I personally think the amount of hate revolving the "LFG Tool" issue is that BW has already stated that they're working on one, and that it will be implemented soon.

 

Yet there's a very vocal group of players who Won't Shut Up about wanting an LFG Tool.

 

We get it, you want one, they said they're implementing one. There's no longer a reason to clog up General chat with a 4-hour long discussion on the History of MMOs and which ones had LFG tools or Dungeon finders or whatever, or how they will destroy/enhance the community.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Fuzzytoad

[chaosdefined]

If your community is worth it's salt, it will be unaffected by a cross server lfg.

 

Exactly. There is nothing stopping people building up a community after a Cross-Server LFG comes in, they just don't.

That's the players fault, nobody else.

[PanthersSolo]

I am all for LFG for FPs. As long as they dont do them for raids. I think that was the dumbest thing Blizz did.

[kitsinni]

There isn't a technical reason as much as people just hate whatever they know someone else wants.

[Hawksworth]

I played Wow for years and the cross server dungeon tool absolutely killed the community whether you see it or not OP. I am talking cross server here and not just one that would only incorporate your own realm, don't see a problem with that.

 

First it was cross realm bg;s in wow which was were previously I made most friends then the cross server lfg tool was the final nail in the coffin.

[chaosdefined]

I played Wow for years and the cross server dungeon tool absolutely killed the community whether you see it or not OP. I am talking cross server here and not just one that would only incorporate your own realm, don't see a problem with that.

 

First it was cross realm bg;s in wow which was were previously I made most friends then the cross server lfg tool was the final nail in the coffin.

 

Care to explain how a Group Finder tool magically made people not care about their 'community' and stop talking to each other?

 

Group Finder = Group = Playing Game = VOODOO = no community?

Edited May 1, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Deadalon]

The game needs LFG tool asap at least for ppl that are leveling. Im lvl 35 playing on med-high server and I have yet to get a full 4 man team with the c urrent tools ingame. Why ? Because there are 5-10 ppl playing the planet in TOTAL and many are on diffrent quests and spread all over.

 

Horrendous design.

[Kaltastic]

The only argument I see that has some validity is from the people who auto-add the other 3 people the run a PuG with to their friends list and then spam these people first when they are looking for a group. Personally I find it a little annoying when someone does this and I get whispers as soon as I log on asking me to run something. Yeah, with x-server LFG you can't do this. Oh well. If this is the trade-off for not waiting 60 minutes for a FP then sign me up.

 

Regardless, it is a tough case to make that this behavior is one of the cornerstones of a server's community anyways. How many people can name the players that they grouped up with for a random pug FP in the last week?

 

IMHO if you want to use FP's as a social interaction then you join a guild.

[VeryBoring]

I think that you only need Flashpoint lfg tool, i play on empty server and do not have problem looking people for heroics. I teamed up with some players and we had fun and i think that heroic or two is enough to judge am i going to add player on friend list. And no im not gonna spam them with run stuff but when i am in mood or need of heroics i gonna ask first for a friend that is online and on a same planet as me...

Now, problem with lfg tool is not the lfg tool in it self..it is people that do not use him...

When there is no online friends, i look for who list and no one is looking for one, you can add lfg icon and comment but no one has it...people ask on general chat is there some one for heroics but they do not mark them self as looking for group and if u miss it in chat u cant answer.

Also...a lot of people do not answer ****, i was doing same quest with some guy i asked him to join in a group but he ignored me and we ended up racing for the crates. Some people simple dont want grouping with other players.

Its that simple. No LFG tool can change that.

 

P.S.

English is not my first language so sry for grammar and spelling