BH Heals still manageable post 1.2

[uzairzaidi]

The only 2 circumstances under which people are posting high healing scores for warzones are going to be the following:

 

1) Extremely highly geared (this applies also to FPs and Ops, usually overgeared for the content they are attempting)

 

and/or

 

2) The other team was dreadful and getting steamrolled, probably not even noticing the merc healer. In which case the merc's team won not because of greatness but because of the stupidity of their opponents. Anyone can score high healing points when the other team is dreadful and they can stand there spamming away in a nice easily controlled rotation.

 

The aforementioned superhero then logs on to the forums and posts something wonderfully trollish in the style of L2P etc. Which leads nicely on to...

 

 

 

Such trolling and at time of posting notably none of the toons in your sig are a merc

 

Sorry didn't realize mercs and commandos were different. I guess I should l2p!

[uzairzaidi]

Bottom line - its just not fun anymore.

 

Yes, heals are still "manageable"; but gameplay just isn't fun. Heat is just too restrictive atm in PVE, and dont even get me started on PVP survivability ...

 

Changes I'd like see :

- Radip shots self targetable

- Talent to dump 8 heat on heal crit (except heal from rapid shot)

- make SCG worhwhile using again - give me a throughput benefit from using it - hell give me a reason to use it please

- New core ability - Jet leap - 30 sec cd - jet assisted leap to the targetted spot within 30 yards - Gives us an escape and might make the unbearable huttball matches significantly more entertaining

 

Anyway keep playing while your having fun guys, i'm onto other things now.

 

LOL @ Jet Leap.... man people ask for the most ridiculous things.

[Stercogburn]

Just making Rapid Shots a viable heal in its own right would fix about 90% of the problems of 1.2 regarding merc healers. Its always been a very crappy heal, primarily useful for building up stacks of Supercharged Gas when you are not under pressure to provide actual proper healing.

 

After that, possibly make Rapid Shots return a portion of its healing to the merc would fix the lack of ability to self target with this. This type of mechanic is not unknown in MMOS, many games have heals which provide a big heal to the target and a smaller heal to the caster.

 

Its also not unreasonable to have an ability that screams in PvP "THE HEALER IS RIGHT HERE COME KILL IT" to actually make that ability useful to the person using it.

 

There's of course other ways to fix the crappy heal issue we are saddled with post 1.2, this is just one suggestion.

 

Possibly with this done, nothing else would be needed to fix merc healers after the very large dry fist shoved somewhere uncomfortable in 1.2.

[Rogozhi]

Bottom line - its just not fun anymore.

 

Yes, heals are still "manageable"; but gameplay just isn't fun. Heat is just too restrictive atm in PVE, and dont even get me started on PVP survivability ...

 

Changes I'd like see :

- Radip shots self targetable

- Talent to dump 8 heat on heal crit (except heal from rapid shot)

- make SCG worhwhile using again - give me a throughput benefit from using it - hell give me a reason to use it please

- New core ability - Jet leap - 30 sec cd - jet assisted leap to the targetted spot within 30 yards - Gives us an escape and might make the unbearable huttball matches significantly more entertaining

 

Anyway keep playing while your having fun guys, i'm onto other things now.

 

Rapid shots self target able, well, maybe.

Dump 8 heat on a crit? Why not remove the mechanic completely.

If you find SCG worthless than it's no wonder you're having trouble with the class. You need to L2P. Spamming Healing Scan with an alacrity or power relic provides ALOT of healing. Same goes with power shot spam to help down a target.

I'll agree Huttball kind of sucks, but jet leap just doesn't seem to jive with the class.

[mpcunlimited]

SCG is crucial to healing pre and post 1.2. it's even more important post 1.2 along with kolto missle. I consider my rapid shots incredibly useful not useless. I get a lot of Crits, the base heals of it are not tOo bad, and it is a free heal.

 

Also in regards to healing numbers: Did you ever consider the fact that the shield buff prevents health loss for up to four targets, and that this buff does not factor into the amount of healing done?

 

What's the difference for example, if in a random time frame a bounty hunter is able to protect 1 player for 2500 damage with the shield buff and heal the person for 5000 and a sorc that heals that person for 7500?

Edited May 4, 2012 by mpcunlimited

[ImariKurumi]

LOL @ Jet Leap.... man people ask for the most ridiculous things.

 

Nothing wrong with asking... Who knows, BW might be kind enough to implement a "Jet Leap" lol, dont tell me when it really happens you'll be strongly against it...

 

I bet you'll be spamming your finger on that "Jet Leap" button even when its on CD, or if not, then you're probably a Sin/Ops Main, with Commando your alt, well of course you wont want any advantage to rival classes of your Main...

 

You'd always want to maintain the Predator - Prey in the Pyramid Food chain hierachy...

Edited May 4, 2012 by ImariKurumi

[Macroecon]

The only 2 circumstances under which people are posting high healing scores for warzones are going to be the following:

 

1) Extremely highly geared (this applies also to FPs and Ops, usually overgeared for the content they are attempting)

 

and/or

 

2) The other team was dreadful and getting steamrolled, probably not even noticing the merc healer.

 

This is not correct. It is a common fallacy to believe that big scores, whether they be damage or healing, come from gross mismatches. That is not when you get big scores. In a gross mismatch, the length of the match will be shortened and scores will be low as targets will be quickly extinguished.

 

Rather, big damage and healing scores occur when two teams are evenly matched, are overloaded with healers (4 or more per side) and the match turns static. Think 0-0 Voidstar match. In that environment few deaths occur and there are plenty of targets for dps toons. Toons don't have to chase and can basically sit and dps for 15 straight minutes. And while you'd think that 4 healers means that the healing opportunities would be rationed, in fact since the enemy's 4 dps are outputting the entire time (instead of the more usual situation when one or more are rotating out of respawn), there are healing opportunities aplenty.

[NicWester]

I realize people are going to tell me to shut up because I'm a johnny-come-lately to the BH party, but I don't really care.

 

I've played (and still play, but less so now that I'm leveling a Mercenary alt) a Sniper since beta. I was saving alts for after 1.2, once Legacy was enabled. I've been healing in PvP and solo-healing PvE since then. I don't really see the big deal. I know the picture will change at 50 when I'm using s--- gear compared to what's expected (Much as my Sniper sucked until I started getting some pieces of Centurion/Champion), but that happens to everyone. It certainly happened to me on my main, hence the parenthetical statement above.

 

I've got to watch heat, yeah, but I fail to see how that's any different from watching energy on my Sniper. Everyone on every class has this problem: Resource management. We don't get to just spam our high-cost attacks.

 

Good players make even a bad class look like they need a nerf. I'm not saying I'm a good player, I'm average at best, but I can get by in spite of my averageness. (For example, I hadn't even picked up Supercharged Gas until reading the OP. Every time I start to think I'm good, I read something that brings me back down to the depths of my mediocrity).

[Slipt]

Actually, you have missed my point entirely...

Every other class can do what we do,(tank heal) and do it better PLUS they can do what we can not... THAT is my point.

 

No other class heals tanks as well as we do. Factor in our Kolto Shell, our Reactive Armour, our very high single-target HP/sec figures, our large instant heal, power surge and thermal sensor override for emergencies and then all the benefits of kolto missile on top.

 

One of our greatest strengths is actually in our coefficients. Emergency scan is an instant cast with a 2.28 coefficient (Innervate is 1.03, resurgence is 0.91, surgical probe is 1.37), and rapid scan has a coefficient of 2.72. The only healing ability which recieves a great benefit than this is the Sorcerer's Dark Infusion at 3.41, though the cast time makes it impractical for reactively healing spike damage.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Slipt

[ModifiedKitty]

So because you were against people that have no idea how to play (the top 3 healers on your team all died 1 time each) and you had no pressure put on you so you got to just sit back and heal (the BH healer that got pressure and died 4 times did 1/2 your healing) means BH healers are ok?

 

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal....

 

I also love the PVE crowd that say BH are viable as they sit in full Rakata, in 16 mans with 3 sorc healers and 1 op healer and do HM Karraga's and EV... clearly out gearing the content and being carried by the healing of the others...

 

Has anyone seen proof that you can take 2 BH healers in 8 man to HM Devona and clear it? I have seen tons of proof you can with 2 sorc or 2 Ops... Or a 16 man with 3 BH 1 sorc and 1 op?

 

Lets try and keep it real fellas...

 

No because you don't. Frankly, you don't take merc healers at all anymore unless they're rakata geared beasts. The FACT of the matter is that Operatives and Sorcs outperform them in every possible way. There is literally zero reason to take a merc healer over one of the other two options, and you shouldn't unless you know the healer is geared and skilled.

 

Any Merc still healing would be in their best interest to go arsenal. The added group dps debuff is much more significant in a raid setting and you're just bringing down the team with gimpy heals that are better suited for sorc/op.

 

The dps kind of sucks right now too, only being on par with other dps classes while having the worst defensive cooldowns and literally zero mobility. Dps IMO needs about a 10% buff to be competitive in pve, healing needs a complete overhaul starting with total reversion of healing nerfs (just start over on balancing). Critical efficiency has to go back to the level it was before, supercharged gas needs to be reverted, and then merc heals will once again be viable.

 

There is no doubt right now that Merc heals are not only super rare right now, but incredibly weak.

[davilorius]

No other class heals tanks as well as we do. Factor in our Kolto Shell, our Reactive Armour, our very high single-target HP/sec figures, our large instant heal, power surge and thermal sensor override for emergencies and then all the benefits of kolto missile on top.

 

The BH tank healing abilities prior to 1.2 were all that you extoll above. Even with the benefits of Reactive armor and SCG cut in half post 1.2, they are still useful. But post 1.2 it's more like you want to put the BH on healing the tank because that's what the BH is less weak at.

 

Kolto Shell isn't practical to cast mid-boss fight anymore given Heat budget, but once in a while there will be a lull in the Heat mini-game and an extra Kolto Shell can be cast. Similarly, Emergency Scan is no longer for emergencies - it must be used every 17 seconds to help maintain Heat sanity.

 

I highly dispute that post 1.2 a BH healer could put out more healing on a single target than a Sorc or Op could. The crushing nerf to sustained output above all others was of course the increased heat cost to the Healing Scan/Rapid Scan combo. BH is now the weakest healer by far in both output and utility, the nerfs were too heavy-handed.

 

But yea -- assigning th BH to heal the tank is probably raid-optimal. The BH heals the tank and the Sorc or Op heals the rest of the raid while The BH plays the heat management single-target optimizing mini-game.

[DomingoDarkrage]

I just ran EC hard mode for the first time the other day. While we didn't clear all content, I was throwing out more heals than the 2 op's and sorc in the 16 man raid, and I was a BH. I don't know their gear, but the numbers using our raid linked parser showed that bounty hunters are still useful. The sorc was the lowest, and was probably under-geared, but i was tossing out twice their healing. BH still manageable.

[TempestasSilva]

No other class heals tanks as well as we do. Factor in our Kolto Shell, our Reactive Armour, our very high single-target HP/sec figures, our large instant heal, power surge and thermal sensor override for emergencies and then all the benefits of kolto missile on top.

 

One of our greatest strengths is actually in our coefficients. Emergency scan is an instant cast with a 2.28 coefficient (Innervate is 1.03, resurgence is 0.91, surgical probe is 1.37), and rapid scan has a coefficient of 2.72. The only healing ability which recieves a great benefit than this is the Sorcerer's Dark Infusion at 3.41, though the cast time makes it impractical for reactively healing spike damage.

 

Your mind is stuck in pre 1.2, unfortunately.

Kolto shell is a nice passive healing ability, but you are not keeping a tank alive with a heal the hits for jackcrap every couple of seconds. Sorc shield is better. Reactive Armor - Do the math. It aint that great and sorcs have reconstruct that gives the same benfit. Our instant heal is only large if it crits. Same with Rapid Scan, Etc. Etc. Sorc can also throw their AOE down to hit the tank and melee. Ops are even better for a single target. Bottom line is that Sorc/Op can keep up a single target/tank up as easily as we can now.

 

Our advantage used to be SCG. It was amazing burst. Now you overheat trying to use it for its full duration and you are trading a temporary 5% healing bonus for a static 3% that you will have to take time after to rebuild. Yes it vents 8 heat and gives a shield to those hit by KM, etc. but that only makes it still worth using in certain circumstances. Other circumstances it is a net loss in HPS.

 

Thats not to say we are totally broken and cant heal Operations, we can, especially if teamed with a Sorc/Operative. But if you do not think we are the most underpowered healer by a significant margin, you are deluded. Its really that simple.

[TempestasSilva]

I just ran EC hard mode for the first time the other day. While we didn't clear all content, I was throwing out more heals than the 2 op's and sorc in the 16 man raid, and I was a BH. I don't know their gear, but the numbers using our raid linked parser showed that bounty hunters are still useful. The sorc was the lowest, and was probably under-geared, but i was tossing out twice their healing. BH still manageable.

 

Here is DD to save the day again. He is running in a 16-man operation. He snipes heals from the other healers to pad his numbers then comes here to tell us we are fine. Simple fact is that if you are outhealing Sorcs and Ops, they are slacking. Its not even gear. Quit pissing on me and trying to convince me that its raining.

Edited May 4, 2012 by TempestasSilva

[Qendra]

I just ran EC hard mode for the first time the other day. While we didn't clear all content, I was throwing out more heals than the 2 op's and sorc in the 16 man raid, and I was a BH. I don't know their gear, but the numbers using our raid linked parser showed that bounty hunters are still useful. The sorc was the lowest, and was probably under-geared, but i was tossing out twice their healing. BH still manageable.

 

Whats the hps of that sorc/ops that you outhealed?

[Jaxarale]

No other class heals tanks as well as we did.

Fixed that for ya.

Factor in our Kolto Shell

The shell that now is so heat prohibitive to cast you can only use it pre pull?? Ya thats a nice ability....

our Reactive Armour,

Nerfed Sorc bubble > RA

our very high single-target HP/sec figures, our large instant heal, power surge and thermal sensor override for emergencies and then all the benefits of kolto missile on top.

You mean pre 1.2 right? All of those abilities are craptastic at best now and soc and ops out do them AND bring aoe raid healing... something we just can not do effectively.

 

I was throwing out more heals than the 2 op's and sorc in the 16 man raid, and I was a BH.

 

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal...

Edited May 4, 2012 by Jaxarale

[TempestasSilva]

The shell that now is so heat prohibitive to cast you can only use it pre pull?? Ya thats a nice ability....

 

Agree with the sentiment, but from a PVE perspective, even at 16 heat, it provides a nice passive efficient heal. So if other healing is needed or you have mid 20s heat, Id pass. But in all the lulls, i'd re-cast it and try to maintain 100% up-time.

[Ewert]

It really isn't that hard to figure cast-priority for the heals, so I'll just repeat-spam the table I have where my stats make them lay. Changing anything around has barely an effect on relative strengths, so the order stays the same just as long as you don't go to absurd lengths to disprove the priority (like naked or something silly).

 

The number to watch is the /combined value, it shows the sustained (unmodified by crits) heatneutral with rapid shots rotation of said heal as HPS.

 

The main points are these:

Kolto Shell is our best heal, so refresh it during supercharged gas to max out the effect of gas. The cycle will be quite matched with gas + shell, since it tends to take enough time for the shell to be either worn off or wearing off if you wait till end of gas.

 

Kolto Missile spam can be used to pad your (over)healing numbers, since the x4 version is our best semi-repeatable heal. Heck if you combine with HS+RS casts, you really don't have much heat left for anything else than KM. Now IF you can get reliable _3x healing needed hits minimum_ KM heals, wow. Oh and PS, your raid sucks in avoiding dmg.

 

The most ridiculous point is naturally obvious, that during gas it is better for you to HS several people in need of heals rather than cast RScan even once. If we also take into account using KM, using KS and rather HS several people, we get to the point of not ever using RS during gas UNLESS you really really need to spamheal the tank. Talk about killing our mechanic of old!

 

Note these were with my gear of quite-a-lot-alacrity, thus the /time values of HS/RS drop a lot with a zero alacrity build. Funkily enough I did a very quick test with Rapid Scan, and going from my alacrity to 9% (only talents) resulted in around 2.5% overall sustained increase if all that went into power. Approximated. Oh and the talents are a neteffect increase of sustained healing due to free rapid shots, so no going 0% alacrity is not the way.

 

All in all, previous way of playing the BH got hit by a sledgehammer, and now you truly have zero choices really:

Refresh KS during gas for tank

Never use RScan during gas unless really have to

KM always if you can get 3+ targets healed

KM even if it is bit risky if you get 2 or 3 targets healed, unless you are building charges and have HS off CD for HS+RS

End gas with HS proc up so you get RS+HS+RS, then zillion rapid shots

Rapid shots, rapid shots, rapid freaking shots

More RAPID SHOTS

 

Name	Avg	Cost	Time	/resource	/time	/combined
Emergency Scan	2009,5	0	1,5	Free	1339,67	Free
Rapid Shots	540	0	1,5	Free	360	Free
Kolto Overload	3071,25	0	0	Free	Free	Free
Kolto Shell	4235	16	1,5	264,69	2823,33	1514,69
Kolto Missile x4	3884	16	1,5	242,75	2589,33	1405
Kolto Missile x3	2913	16	1,5	182,06	1942	1101,56
Healing Scan + HoT	2467	16	1,18	154,19	2090,68	998,19
RScan (after HS)	2397	17	1,57	141	1526,75	898,76
Kolto Missile x2	1942	16	1,5	121,38	1294,67	798,13
Healing Scan	1744	16	1,18	109	1477,97	772,25
Rapid Scan	2397	25	1,57	95,88	1526,75	726,36
Kolto Missile	971	16	1,5	60,69	647,33	494,69

[Slipt]

Quote:

No other class heals tanks as well as we did.

Fixed that for ya.

 

Quote:

Factor in our Kolto Shell

The shell that now is so heat prohibitive to cast you can only use it pre pull?? Ya thats a nice ability....

 

Quote:

our Reactive Armour,

Nerfed Sorc bubble > RA

 

Quote:

our very high single-target HP/sec figures, our large instant heal, power surge and thermal sensor override for emergencies and then all the benefits of kolto missile on top.

You mean pre 1.2 right? All of those abilities are craptastic at best now and soc and ops out do them AND bring aoe raid healing... something we just can not do effectively.

 

Quote:

I was throwing out more heals than the 2 op's and sorc in the 16 man raid, and I was a BH.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal... .

 

1) I stand by my statement.

I'm expressing my opinion, which I'm happy to discuss and provide evidence towards.

 

2) It may cost 16 heat, but the total volume provided for that cost makes it our most efficient heal (ignoring free heals, naturally). Also, it's intrinsically valuable to have a heal which takes very little maintenance and is able to react immediately to damage, which can save a player during a spike. Note also that kolto shells stack with multiple merc healers, and can often keep a tank up without any direct healing at all. (Naturally this is not true of all content.

 

3) In what way is a 2.5k absorption shield better than 9 seconds with 10% extra armour?

They are completely different effects, with different functions.

Let's assume a tank in question is riding on approx 50% mitigation from armour, and the additional 10% makes that 55% mitigation (on those incoming attacks which are energy and kinetic, of course).

Let's say that takes a 5k hit down to 2250. That means that the 10% armour buff from RA is saving the tank from 250 damage on one hit. Not much compared to the shield right? Wrong.

Now think of the shield. it will absorb 2500 damage completely, which is that entire first hit. Then what? No shield. No armour buff. No way to shave down the remaining hits over that 9sec period to a more managable level.

 

Fully absorbing one moderate hit compares poorly against reducing the volume of 9 seconds worth of tank damage. This is a point I will happily debate, but when you consider that RA can be up constantly, then even the volume of damage avoided swings in favour of the merc healer as well. Please reply if you would like the maths.

 

4) I do not refer to pre-1.2 healing. Merc healers have high HPS. Merc healers have some very useful tools for emergency response, and merc healers are able to buff incoming heals and reduce incoming damage. I will readily admit that these abilities were stronger pre-1.2, and preferred that golden era of healing to our current position... but nerf or not, we are still highly capable and without equal when it comes to sustained healing on a single target, tank or otherwise. Again, the maths are on offer if you are having trouble with this.

 

5) This quote is not from my previous post. You are quoting somebody else, but not bothering to seperate the authors, therefore I am not required to defend your argument against it... insofar as you can call trolling an argument.

[Aluano]

I wouldn't mind spamming Rapid Shots as much as I do if they removed the annoying sound >.<

[Bobiefatt]

So Rapid Shots is now your primary heal that you do most of your healing with?

 

Which makes you a tank healer, and there is the reason im about to give up my BH healer.

My sub wil be next if they don't fix BH merc.

 

Im went DPS after 1.2, but im getting out dps'ed by Sorcs, Juggs and marauders.

 

My BH is close to usseles.

[Ewert]

Im went DPS after 1.2, but im getting out dps'ed by Sorcs, Juggs and marauders.

 

My BH is close to usseles.

And agents. That leaves ... leaves ... wut?

 

Yea I have lots of playdays on account due to the free month, but just helping the guild atm, not even logging on otherwise for crafting skills even.

 

Meanwhile in Tera, I'm lvl46 warrior and looking into the real instance experience starting in a few levels. The previous few lvling instances were pretty good. the combat system is awesomely active. And mistakes are brutal (bosses may oneshot if you mess up bad).

Edited May 6, 2012 by Ewert

[mpcunlimited]

I enjoy post 1.2 heals to be honest. Bioware basically made it to where you have to include kolto missle in your rotation. Btw kolto shell has always been a pre pull ability for me, and if you needed it any more than that pre1.2 you must not know your skill rotation. Koltomissle's benefits are very beneficial. The fact that it only shields four people per shot is not a problem btw because you should be able to use two of them before SCG runs out.

[RoadRash]

I enjoy post 1.2 heals to be honest..

 

 

Run Denova on 8man (hm) with two bodyguard healers and come back and tell us how much you enjoy it.

 

You can fraps it and share the fun with everyone

[mpcunlimited]

I hope to do it soon. Story mode is a breeze once everyone understands the mechanics. Lost Island is too easy hard mode. Im not too worried about hard mode denova. I hope to heal it soon. I'm going to try to fraps severa boss fights to give other mercs a better idea on how to heal through the videos. sometimes using just words is not enough to clearly show another player ho to heal. Hope to make an actual guide as well.