Brytag Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Because people know these modes are unbalanced yet they still allow it. Just like people thinking Marauders are fine. You think the best PvP teams will take a Scoundrel over a Sage or Guardian? Teams will be stacked with X,Y and Z classes while F and U won't dare get a spot. We will just abuse the inbalance and there will be no one else to blame but yourselves for it. i have to agree with him on this. alot of the upper end pvp guilds on my server have used this time with the delay of rateds to all reroll different classes. maras/sins/agent heals are going to be MUST for competitive team play. It shouldnt be that way. People should be able to play classes cuz they are fun not to just be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auliga Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 keep huttball. its probably one of the most unique features of swtor compared to other mmo's give us different huttbal arenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) I am in a PvP guild, and the very best player to have on our server in a game of Huttball is a scoundrel healer. And you're right. There is nothing you as an operative can do. It's not your job, just like it's not a goalkeeper's job to score goals or a defensive lineman's job to score touchdowns. Your job is to do what an operative does best in a way that can help your team score and prevent the other team from scoring. Instead of being so worried about what you can't do, start thinking about what you can and how to use that. You declare because he guards the mid he's your best player - but what objective measure is that? Objective measure would be thinks like blocking scores, killing ball carriers and scoring goals and all of those things an operative is worse at than an assassin - or vanguard - or sith warrior of any flavor. It's a clearly biased game towards class abilities. There's nothing stopping a marauder from guarding mid. He can do that just fine, he can also score goals and intercept ball carriers. He's great at 3 positions where you relegate the operative to foot chasing around people in mid when they have sprints and leaps. It'd be like if only one class could pass the ball. There's nothing wrong with the game other than the fact that Bioware didn't see that it's common sense to block some class abilities and replace them with general use abilities that everyone can use. And this enters into the issues with rated warzones. So long as Huttball is a rated game and the ONLY one that relies on certain classes, PVP teams will just stack those classes - because they're fine at every other warzone too. I have no reason to have a sniper in my Huttball group as a Juggernaut can do everything he can do and so much more. Sorc DPS is on par/better than gunslinger DPS and their utility is far superior and their ground coverage is far superior. Anyway, it's common sense if you play the game that you see how class composition plays into it and classes by and large should not get barred from playing a particular warzone for ranked competition (thereby having larger queues). The *correct* fix would be to disallow some abilities and make the others freely available to everyone playing regardless of class. Edited April 30, 2012 by dcgregorya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) I'd rather remove Alderaan instead. I hate it so much that every time I see the loading screen, I want to just cry. I often find myself leaving at the start as well, because it's absolutely no fun to play. The map layout sucks, there's very little action, it's a giant zergfest towards nodes, and AoEs and heals are god. On top of that, it's the hardest Warzone to make any sort of comeback in due to how the nodes are capped (compared to, say, Novare). F#@$ Alderaan Civil War. My preference for Warzones: Void Star Hutt Ball Novare Not playing a warzone Levelling a new alt Mass murdering puppies Eating a rotten egg Gluing my lips together with Super Glue and then nailing them together with a nail gun Alderaan Civil War Edited April 30, 2012 by Spiderbubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidJustice Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) keep huttball. its probably one of the most unique features of swtor compared to other mmo's give us different huttbal arenas ^this How bout a flat hutball field... that'd make things a bit more even. btw... I find lipgluing / nailgunning lips a very underappreciated Wz. Edited April 30, 2012 by VoidJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeStormstout Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) The only unique war zone in this game should never be removed. Edited April 30, 2012 by LukeStormstout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) You declare because he guards the mid he's your best player - but what objective measure is that? Objective measure would be thinks like blocking scores, killing ball carriers and scoring goals and all of those things an operative is worse at than an assassin - or vanguard - or sith warrior of any flavor. It's a clearly biased game towards class abilities. There's nothing stopping a marauder from guarding mid. He can do that just fine, he can also score goals and intercept ball carriers. He's great at 3 positions where you relegate the operative to foot chasing around people in mid when they have sprints and leaps. It'd be like if only one class could pass the ball. There's nothing wrong with the game other than the fact that Bioware didn't see that it's common sense to block some class abilities and replace them with general use abilities that everyone can use. I never said he's the best because he guards mid. I said he's the best because with him healing the ball carrier as the ball is carried from one end to the other - something that ONLY a scoundrel healer can do - it's almost impossible to kill him and steal the ball. When he is on our team the only time the other team is ever able to get the ball back is by using CCs and the obstacles and LOS available in their own end. If we steal the ball from them in our end, its basically guaranteed to gain at least the field position advantage by getting the ball back to the other side. So you don't have leaps. Ok... so you don't have speed, or pulls, etc., well..... you DO have the best CC in the game, in a warzone where CC is everything. Learn to use it to benefit your team instead of whining. Yes, sometimes the ball carrier will get out of your range with a leap or speed or something, but here's probably the biggest mistake people make in Huttball: the ball carrier should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER take the full team's attention. The other players are JUST as important as the ball carrier, whether they're getting ahead of the ball to provide a pull, getting back to mid quickly to help delay and cause havoc after a score or reset, or doing any number of other things. If the ball carrier speeds out of your range, look for a player who is in your range that you can harass or take down so that he cannot do his job when the time comes, or go get into a the correct position for when the ball swings back around the other way or resets to mid. Those big 6 - 0 Huttball losses are always the result of people chasing the ball carrier and ignoring the other players. The ball carrier force speed away from you? Well guess what, if you drop a flash grenade on all the people who were protecting him, then when he gets to the lower scaffolding and needs to wait for the fire, he'll have no protection from your Inquisitor teammates who have also force sped to catch him. You're "stuck" back behind him, but thanks to you, so are 5 of his teammates and as a result he gets killed and the ball comes back to you. THAT's how you win at Huttball. To win at Huttball, you need to be able to read a team the way a football player can read the opposing defense or offense. You need to be able to anticipate where each player is going, what each player wants to do, and which ones you are in the best position to stop. I honestly think this is why those who dislike Huttball do so... it's by FAR the most advanced warzone strategically speaking. Being good at running your damage rotation or getting high stats is almost meaningless in Huttball. You have to play strategically, positionally, and with anticipation. Players who don't want to - or haven't realized they need to - play a far more mental game in Huttball are going to hate it and think it's imbalanced. Edited April 30, 2012 by Skolops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dardack Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Tier list for huttball S-tier: Assassin (tank) A-tier: Sorc (either), Jugg (tank), Mara (with obliterate), Merc (Arsenal), Jugg (non-tank, with obliterate), Powertech (pyro), B-tier:Pyrotech (Tank) Assassin (non-tank), Operative (heal), Merc (any but Arsenal), Mara (without obliterate), C-tier: Operative (dps) D-tier: Sniper Where does PT AP fit on this completely random list? Cause if I'm not listed and Love HB does that mean I should be on the list or everyone that hates it is wrong? Or some hate, some love, and I'm glad it's in the rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Where does PT AP fit on this completely random list? Cause if I'm not listed and Love HB does that mean I should be on the list or everyone that hates it is wrong? Or some hate, some love, and I'm glad it's in the rotation. Having Grapple automatically puts you on the list of desireable characters for Huttball. It's basically the only ability that can stop a good ball carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulraven Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Until you learn to fix this class-biased mode. Rateds will be a complete joke if you allow this mode. Or Allow the option to pick your own wz. I agree with having the option to pick your own wz. That is a no brainer frankly. But like cross realm pvp ques or cross realm lfg tools, it is strange the BW has chosen to roll circa 2009. However, I love Huttball. I admit to hating it at first until I figured it out. Now I love it. The three dimensional aspect of the fights is great fun. The deadly hazards are a blast too. I dont care at all if one bg favors one class a bit. Basically learn to maximize your own potential and you can be very effective regardless of the wz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 ...Tons of misinformation... Blah blah. Honestly, play an operative, a sniper, a mercenary, etc to 50 and get back to me. How is a melee ranged 4 second hard stun the best CC in the game when there's two classes with a 30 meter hard stun (like sorc, who also has a ranged interrupt, ranged slow, ally pull, speed buff, etc). Operatives aren't even good at keeping the BC up if anyone on the other team knows how to interrupt their single channeled heal or *gasp* knock them off the ramparts. Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of text that comes across as silly justification and doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzoong Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I play with the OP daily, so I can tell you that the "OP needs to L2P" comments are completely misguided. We rarely (it does happen once in a great while) lose a Huttball, you won't find us 1v1'ing in a random spot unless the game is already decided in our favor, and we understand positioning (both offensive and defensive) to the point where any poor decisions are immediately called out and corrected. The "I really enjoy Huttball, and I play a Commando!" comments are all well and good, but I guarantee that when you come up against "Huttball-specific" team comps in rated WZs, you will come to these forums and rage about Combat-Transcendence, Force Leap, Force Speed, Guardian Leap, Rescue, Grapple, and Guarded by the Force, just like anyone else who does rateds will. For the record, I love Huttball in its current state. I play a Guardian and I freaking love it. I also understand that not only losing to Huttball-stacked teams, but having people rejected for premades because they might cost us Huttball wins against teams who do have Huttball-stacked teams is going to suck hard. It's for that reason that I think the OP's options (remove Huttball for rateds or allow unchecking 1-2 warzones from your group's queue) at least have something to them (even if I don't necessarily agree). The thing is that having huttball in your queue actually will encourage rated teams to more diversity if it comes to classes, on all the other maps stacking with even less ACs is favored. If it was possible to remove 2 wz from the queue I bet 90% of the guilds would remove huttball and NC, and play the tank healer stacking game on ACW and VS. They would eliminate next to all risk and all surprises that way and just play it save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Tier list for huttball S-tier: Assassin (tank) A-tier: Sorc (either), Jugg (tank), Mara (with obliterate), Merc (Arsenal), Jugg (non-tank, with obliterate), Powertech (pyro), B-tier:Pyrotech (Tank) Assassin (non-tank), Operative (heal), Merc (any but Arsenal), Mara (without obliterate), C-tier: Operative (dps) D-tier: Sniper This is such a terrible tier list. Snipers are great in Hutt Ball. In fact, that's probably their best Warzone. Rage (the ones that use Obliterate) Marauders are certainly worse on Hutt Ball when compared to Carnage for Hutt Ball (2 snares, huge movement speed buff to the whole ops). I'd also argue that Healing Operatives are considerably better now in 1.2. They're IMO the best healers currently. This holds true for Hutt Ball due to their speed and CC. Sorcerors are also too high on your tier list. They're nowhere near as good anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Blah blah. Honestly, play an operative, a sniper, a mercenary, etc to 50 and get back to me. How is a melee ranged 4 second hard stun the best CC in the game when there's two classes with a 30 meter hard stun (like sorc, who also has a ranged interrupt, ranged slow, ally pull, speed buff, etc). Operatives aren't even good at keeping the BC up if anyone on the other team knows how to interrupt their single channeled heal or *gasp* knock them off the ramparts. Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of text that comes across as silly justification and doesn't add up. Already taken care of, thanks. I can only use scoundrel terminology, but flash grenade is the only AoE stun I can think of off the top of my head, and its 8 seconds - an eternity near the goal line. Further as a scoundrel healer you can do amazing things in Huttball. WHILE MOVING with the ball carrier - something no other class can do - you can keep the target up with a stackable HoT, a mobile AoE HoT, and a spammable, potentially infinite instant cast heal that can hold him from the brink of death for quite a while if he is also guarded. Yes, knocking the Operative off the scaffolds will cause him to be ineffective, as will knocking any other class off. Though, in an organized group a healer who was keeping the BC up would be a priority for any sage or sorc to pull back to the pack. Operative is a melee class, so of course their abilities are melee. I wish my scoundrel has a long range interrupt, but she doesn't. That's fine, she's melee; she has other things that make her valuable. The sorc has a long ranged mezz - big deal. One of the bigger mistake people make in Huttball is dropping that mezz on the BC so that his resolve fills up and he can walk to the goal line unmolested. In any case, like I said, it's all about doing your job. A Sorc can mezz the BC from 30m if it's really, truly called for. An Op can stun all of his protection for 8 seconds. When I carry the ball, I'll tell you it's a lot less scary to be mezzed so that as soon as I take any damage I am free again WITH a nearly full resolve bar, then to have all of my protection blinded so that the rest of the opposing team is free to wail on me for as long as their CC breakers are down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombro Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I can only use scoundrel terminology, but flash grenade is the only AoE stun I can think of off the top of my head, and its 8 seconds - an eternity near the goal line. Check out Awe and Neural Surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Check out Awe and Neural Surge. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaa Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Already taken care of, thanks. I can only use scoundrel terminology, but flash grenade is the only AoE stun I can think of off the top of my head, and its 8 seconds - an eternity near the goal line. That's kind of funny because I have just played so many games where OPs were doing that at the goal line. Crowd control skills are great. I have no idea why they decided to go overboard with CC in this....oh yes I remember. They didn't properly test it or listen to feedback. Edited April 30, 2012 by Tiaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsakenToyz Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 LOL'd. So you really wanna get rid of the only WZ where you need actual team play? All other WZs are just skirmish, who has better heals and tanks/dps. No brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalMarvel Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I'd rather get rid of the rest of the game and just keep Huttball. If there were no Huttball, I would've quit long ago. The other warzones are dull and repetitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsakenToyz Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 keep huttball. its probably one of the most unique features of swtor compared to other mmo's Well, technically this is just a CTF type game. But map with obstacles and all these pits and ramps make me sometimes feel like I playing Quake, not some MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 LOL'd. So you really wanna get rid of the only WZ where you need actual team play? All other WZs are just skirmish, who has better heals and tanks/dps. No brains. Completely missing the point but I guess speaking over thinking is your thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyshoot Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I just love non operatives trying to make out ops are fine in huttball.. Utter joke. Flash bang you say? Err it breaks on damage.... Useless on a ball carrier. Ops have zero utility worth using in hb... Add to that hb has to be the worst wz for cheating scum. The amount of speeding people... stuttering to the end zone is embarrassing. Huttball is ALL the class not skill... If you think otherwise you are a force user and full of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelantern Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 At 10-49 Huttball was my absolute favorite wz. Once I hit 50 and it went from "Huttball" to "Sprintball" I avoid it at all costs. I hate waiting the 15-20 mintues on my server for a wz to actually happen and then be force pull/sprint game over in 4 minutes. I believe that BW was so concerned about keeping each faction balanced that they didn't look at class balance. Just my opinion, but I"m definately reaching my limit of pvp issues and considering a new venue. sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I like the new skills you're required to learn to play huttball. Leading passes, Interceptions, Navigating obsticles and reading your opponent's plays are just some of the things I love about huttball that you don't get in other WZs. Don't get me wrong, I love the other WZs (except civil war, that WZ can DIAF), but huttball is something different and I love that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolleebindu Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Until you learn to fix this class-biased mode. Rateds will be a complete joke if you allow this mode. Or Allow the option to pick your own wz. "Because people know these modes are unbalanced yet they still allow it. You think the best PvP teams will take a Scoundrel over a Sage or Guardian? Teams will be stacked with X,Y and Z classes while F and U won't dare get a spot. We will just abuse the inbalance and there will be no one else to blame but yourselves for it. " i like huttball it is a fun wz, especially with guildies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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