Assassin deception pve dps needs big buff

[Osirys]

Prove it?

 

If they built the whole class around one spec, there would only be one spec and not three.

 

Madness is the highest DPS for both Sorc and Assassin, would seem to me, Madness was intended to be the highest DPS tree.

 

Stop imposing your wishes as the intention for the class, as it's clearly not the case.

 

I understand what he is saying, but when you reply that "madness seems to be the intended DPS tree because it does the most DPS" only reinforces the fact that Deception needs a buff to be comparable to Madness. Additionally, by your own logic, why have a Deception tree if Madness is the DPS tree?

 

In the end you're both full of fail for arguing about it.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Osirys

[Blyter]

I understand what he is saying, but when you reply that "madness seems to be the intended DPS tree because it does the most DPS" only reinforces the fact that Deception needs a buff to be comparable to Madness. Additionally, by your own logic, why have a Deception tree if Madness is the DPS tree?

 

In the end you're both full of fail for arguing about it.

 

Deception is tuned perfectly for PvP in the way it operates around high burst DPS.

 

However, there is a number of PvE fights favorable to high burst DPS specs like Deception. Fabricator, SOA, Tanks in EC, Kephess Bombers.

 

You cannot increase Deceptions damage, without causing issues in PvP with Deceptions turning into Pre-Nerf Operatives.

[Jibakurai]

Deception is tuned perfectly for PvP in the way it operates around high burst DPS.

 

However, there is a number of PvE fights favorable to high burst DPS specs like Deception. Fabricator, SOA, Tanks in EC, Kephess Bombers.

 

You cannot increase Deceptions damage, without causing issues in PvP with Deceptions turning into Pre-Nerf Operatives.

 

I agree totally. I've been reading and reading all these posts about burst dps and DoTs and blah blah blah and no one has clarified it as simply as this. Burst Damage was never intended in any game to be top DPS for long fights and DoTs are near pointless in short BURST fights. So spec around what you plan to do in the game and change up as needed.

[Akyrashadowen]

I've had a similar problem with keeping my dps close to our marauder. Depending on movement of a fight I can usually do between 1300-1500 dps as deception. I've noticed that our dps problem lies in a balance between our stats. Unlike most of the other class our damage is heavily relied on melee damage. If your not heavy critting as deception there something wrong and its in our stats. As deception the less accuracy I have from 100% the less damage I do. Currently I sit at 75% surge rating 37% crit and 99% acc/ 450 power.

 

We can hit for 1500-2100 normal hits for voltaic and maul non crit. Our damage comes from our proc based crits.

On normal mobs I crit from 6-8k on bosses to where they gain 10% defense its 5.8k max. I have done some testing but the more acc I put on after 97% have upped my dps. On burst I can do 2k dps for first part of the fight but after that it drops to 1.3k. I'm doing some more testing on the acc to remove the bosses 10% defense buff and seeing if I can sustain a dps of 1.7-1.9k which is what a full rakata/blackhole geared player should be at.

 

I've tried maddness just isn't my cup of tea I love all that deception has to offer and who doesn't love seeing those big crits

 

If any deception assassin have done something similar I'd like to see your feed back on this.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Akyrashadowen

[Akyrashadowen]

Bump^

[Vilens]

I have a level 21 assassin and threads like these [which are becoming all too common for this class] are not helping.

 

i'm having issues in that khem val sucks, and my sin feels like it should be tanking but i don't have a ******* healer companion until hoth.

 

I guess i'm asking this, i can hold my own in pvp as i'm working up my deception tree but the question is does this not pay off in the long run? originally i was strictly pve and pvp is starting to become more and more common for me.

 

just testing the waters: instead of complaining about what's underpowered and needs fixing, what currently for an assassin splitting his/her time between pve and pvp?

[Mr_Phil]

I'm at 36 as a deception and I enjoy the play style. I do both PvE and PvP as deception. I do ok in PvP and haven't really struggled with PvE either. With PvE you'll want to use your Mind Trap as much as possible which you should have gotten at Lvl20.

For PvP I find if you pick your targets well, can manage to not get focused by a lot of people then you can do pretty well.

[DemonJin]

I have a level 21 assassin and threads like these [which are becoming all too common for this class] are not helping.

 

i'm having issues in that khem val sucks, and my sin feels like it should be tanking but i don't have a ******* healer companion until hoth.

 

I guess i'm asking this, i can hold my own in pvp as i'm working up my deception tree but the question is does this not pay off in the long run? originally i was strictly pve and pvp is starting to become more and more common for me.

 

just testing the waters: instead of complaining about what's underpowered and needs fixing, what currently for an assassin splitting his/her time between pve and pvp?

Im a Conqueror deception assassin so my answer will be more for pvp, and i remember while i was lvling that ya khem does suck, and when u gtet xalek its not much better. As a dps spec its just better for us to either have another dps companion (for your easy situations) and when u get talos, i used him pretty much the rest of the time.

 

pvping most def pays off as u lvl. Not only are you gaining valor lvls needed to wear the orange critted BM and WH gear. And as you gain lvl and new moves and become better at playing deception, once you hit 50 you'll find yourself yes squishy when u find yourself being ganged up on. But in 1v1 situations, properly played there is no class out there that will give any trouble aside from a few tanks. Even in 2v1 deception can still shine and can still come out on top as the victor

[Mr_Phil]

I guess i'm asking this, i can hold my own in pvp as i'm working up my deception tree but the question is does this not pay off in the long run? originally i was strictly pve and pvp is starting to become more and more common for me.

 

I need to read a little better

 

From what i gather for pure PvE DPS Madness is a better spec. For PvP utility Darkness is a better spec. While I do enjoy playing deception I think I'll probably try out Darkness as soon as i get low 40s.

[Akyrashadowen]

Darkness is currently the best spec for pvp, maddness is a little more forgiving than deception and is less gear dependent when it comes to pve endgame. Here's a site I found most of the information is good. http://www.noxxic.com

[scottberg]

I like deception but I do feel that it is not balanced with the other assassin specs and at this moment is probably the least viable spec. I think deception either needs a damage buff or more abilities such as a gap closing ability (ie force leap) a self healing ability and a better AOE/crowd control ability (ie increase lacerate damage).

[Vilens]

I like deception but I do feel that it is not balanced with the other assassin specs and at this moment is probably the least viable spec. I think deception either needs a damage buff or more abilities such as a gap closing ability (ie force leap) a self healing ability and a better AOE/crowd control ability (ie increase lacerate damage).

 

i'm now level 21 deception. i have been watching my tree and trying to observe advantages and disadvantages as best i can.

 

I couldn't agree more with you and it was the first thing i noticed early on in korriban. i see jedis jumping all over the place with gap closing moves and it's frustrating that i can't. although you can make up for this often with stealth, but if the battle's been initiated you're on your own. additionally, i am pumping up willpower and many other stats and my damage is minimal to say the least. lastly, the lack of an aoe ability is also very noticeable although that is not necessarily the role a tank is meant to serve in swtor. i know all of these things are choices by the developers but i'm not going to sit around and hope for a change and beg for it. nor will i let it stop me from enjoying leveling this character but as of right now my republic trooper has been a much more enjoyable ride.

[Farizz]

Didnt read the whole thread so if someone has already metioned it then soz.

 

MoX resets the assassins meters everytime they uses Force Cloak, since this removes them from combat.

Perhaps this is why your damage seems low.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Farizz

[TheManAndres]

Our DPS is right in line with all other hybrids(Sorcs/Mercs/Ops) etc. If your getting outdps'd by everyone, the issue lies between the chair and the computer not the class.

 

then the dps needs to be better for assassin and Op because that's what bioware wants. melee dps should be higher then MERC an SORC simply because melee dps is supposed to be higher,bioware said so them self

[dragonfor]

I tried to play madness, its fun i'll give u that, and usefull.

Ranged attacks, self heal, i like it.

But i cant play it aswell as i play deception.

I have to watch my own procs and keep an eye on Dots.

 

Its probably just something i need to relearn but i dont want too.

 

@the guy defending marauders, all your arguments are invalid.

They are just as versatile as any other spec.

 

 

 

I hope you meant 1850 willpower...

I have 1748 willpower atm.

I think we've found your problem lies between the chair and keyboard, if you don't even know the difference between Power and Willpower.

[Inncarnate]

I have a level 21 assassin and threads like these [which are becoming all too common for this class] are not helping.

 

i'm having issues in that khem val sucks, and my sin feels like it should be tanking but i don't have a ******* healer companion until hoth.

 

Actually u already have a healing companion in ur ship droid although u will need to add gear to him and though he does bugger all dmg his heals are pretty good. I lvled as a darkness/deception hybrid and had no dramas killing anything outside a heroic 2 or 4 with him until i got taris

[toolband]

Akyrashadowen i have sent you a PM with some questions.

[Hard_Head]

Buff it already!!

[Barrgil]

Deception in GENERAL needs a big buff.

 

I play Deception and stay on Deception because I love the way it plays. It feels fun and really 'brutal' watching Voltaic Slash over and over. It just never gets boring. I love watching 4.5k-5.3k numbers pop up on my screen at every shock, maul, discharge or assassinate and I love how I can literally 4 shot people in PvP with this spec.

 

I love how it plays and yes I have switched to Madness but I found it way too similar to Darkness tanking and I quit tanking for the sole reason for it being absolutely boring. I don't want to switch specs, I just want the one I'm using to be at least viable for endgame content. I'm geared so well now that I don't even have to worry that I'm playing the weakest DPS class in game because even my weakest attack hits very hard anyway.

 

Just buff Deception, add a bleed effect to Maul or something or make 5 stacks of Discharge reduce target's armor for X amount of time... Something to make us not so useless.

[Jonespiano]

I've tried to play my Shaduka as Deception. In theory, I thought it should play somewhat like my MM Sniper in melee - both classes do a lot of single-target white damage, have a constricted resource system, and ways to temporarily burst like crazy. Both of them have 3 separate abilities that can crit for over 5K. And the Assassin's attacks are all instant, as opposed to having a mix of channels, casts and instants which takes constant juggling. So it stands to reason it would be simpler to play, and in some ways, it is.

 

That simplicity is also the problem. There are too many buttons to push and not enough that actually make a difference in PvE - lots of abilities that are situational, not frequently helpful. Low Slash is of no value outside of PvP, a completely wasted talent point that people take only because they need it for Voltaic Slash. Granted, in PvP it has its use as a temporary CC before vanishing, but it's not like the class needs more situational abilities. Force Shroud + Force Cloak is more than enough. Take Low Slash out and replace it with a burst proc like the Sniper's Followthrough, and then you might see some parity.

 

Also, on my Sniper, if I get my abilities in the right order or use alacrity buffs, it reduces their cast time. The attack speed is invariable for an Assassin no matter what he does. Some Marauders can even get their GCD temporarily reduced to 1.0 with their stacks up - given the nature of the Deception Assassin's damage, it might be worth considering a similar mechanic for this spec as well, perhaps in the form of a cooldown that could be used in conjunction with Dark Embrace.

[Ravand]

I raid with dec and haven't have a problem with rage timers, and this is across a wide range of group compositions. I have a 44% crit chance (35% base, extra 9% from the talent in the madness tree, it procs often enough that I always have it in combat., and 59% on voltanic slash due to set bonus + madness talent) and a 74% surge multiplier, so I hit for about 2.5k every few seconds, with bursts in the 4-5k range often. That combined with maul hitting for 3.5k pretty much every time and I'm the one cleaning up mobs in a flash. And I'm only in partial columi gear. Add in the insulation talent and greater health on average and we are close to a medium armor class anyways. I know I don't feel squishy while running with my guildies.

 

For example I have no problems doing corellia dailies solo and have run the associated heroic with just myself, my companion and a healer friend. As opposed to my nearly identically geared merc beating each pull with much less health generally. PvP is another story though, you couldn't pay me to play dec in that savage environment.

 

Maybe you are trying to use tanking gear with a dec build? Are you using full stalker? And what build? I'm using 7/31/3.

 

EDIT: Also are you trying to use a shield instead of a focus?

 

You raid with Bad DPS guildies if you are cleaning the trash. The target dummy is your friend.

 

Full columi / rakata marauders dish out 1300-1500 dps You are in the 1000-1100 range.

[Asphen]

This can't be hard to understand

 

- Tanking on a raid: Tank spec

- long battles over a node: Tank spec

- ganking a node: Stealth spec

- defending a node: Stealth spec

- DPS on a raid: DoT spec

 

Why is this so challenging?

[-NovalGaraint-]

Okay lets get a few things straight here, Marauders are a pure DPS class. They have only DPS specs. Only one of their specs pulls really high dps in comparison to everything else.

 

Your playing the weakest PvE spec, and asking for buffs. Really? Learn to play Madness if you want maximum PvE DPS. Deception isn't designed for that.

 

A Marauder should do more DPS then you, it's all he's got. He can't taunt and offtank, he can't stealth resurrect. He just stands there an deals damage.

 

I was content to just read this thread and not even bother logging in until I saw this post........

 

How many times were you dropped as a kid?......

 

So Deception WAS NOT designed for PVE dps?.......thats what your saying? So if I want to do PVE DPS I should roll MADNESS????.......thats the tree designed for PVE DPS?..........

 

Its posts like this that confirm the fact that America is spiraling into oblivion.....

 

 

FIRST OFF: The devs just went on a rant about how the Assassins were too powerful, they are supposed to be a high burst hit and run class..........we aren't......

 

our burst is low, a concealment op puts us to shame, our hit and run is non existant, I can force cloak out every 2 minutes WITH deception talents....I think the conceal operative is 1minute....

 

And how is it justified that Marauders should do insane DPS over Sins because they can only spec DPS?

 

They have INSANE defensive cool downs, Bloodlust, and a damage meter that puts every other DPS in a raid to shame.......

 

 

We DPS sins on the other hand flail a wet noodle around the raid.........oh that reminds me, your part about saying how "if you want the utility of an assassin" .............

 

 

Juggernauts cost to change from DPS stance to Tank: 0 Rage (INSTANT CAST)

Assassin cost to change from DPS to Tank stance: 100 FORCE (thats your entire bar for slow kids)

 

And even then, You dont have a shield generator in your offhand, your going to be pummeled and dead before the main tank is up (not literally, but the comparison is accurate enough, get over it)

 

 

Assassins are a JOKE, our DPS by comparison to other classes has been horrible since release, its the reason my Sin has been a daily mule and thats about it for the last 4 months. Everytime I run him through a raid or Mox meter him in fleet he goes right back to retirement status...........my Vengeance Jug even slaughters him, I wont even begin to talk about what my Sniper makes my Sin look like, as both Deception and Madness.

[Sookster]

Its posts like this that confirm the fact that America is spiraling into oblivion.....

 

-1 for thinking this game only exists in America.

[Nosduh]

Deception raid dps is probably worst in the game right now. I know how to play my class, im in full rakata and some black hole, but there is no way in hell I can keep up with marauder, sniper, merc or op dps. The damage meters tell the story. Deception is squishiest spec in the game and cant even do top notch raid dps. Something needs to be done.

All assassin dps is bad? No. Survivability is a bit low, that I agree with. DECEPTION DPS is terrible. arguably the worst spec for dps inthe game; however, madness is quite powerful. I consistently pull numbers upwards of 1400 and since I got my main hand and all BiS I'm pushing 1500 on most fights in HM EC and if I do something like Nightmare Karagga on weekends I push 1800. Is this as much as marauders or snipers? No, it's not, but it is close. And not to mention madness is INCREDIBLY powerful in pvp. Consistent damage and your DoTs heal you for 2% every time they crit? It's not as weak as the people that cant play it say it to be.