Warzone Commendations - You're doing it wrong

[Jisu]

The Tier 50 warzones are a joke. I don't understand why winners are awarded 3 times as many tokens as losers. It's a pretty simple concept, really - if you're a winner, it's likely because the other team is not as geared as you. Instead of helping those players, they're punished continuously until they get through one of the most terribly un-fun grinds in any mmo; the grind where undergeared players are forced to play against geared players in an uneven matchup. It's likely the people winning don't even need the tokens, either, which makes the whole prospect even more hilarious and stupid.

 

There should be two types of currency in warzones;

 

1. The commendations we have now based almost entirely on how well the player does, not the team, ie; player receives medals for defending/attacking points, and gets awarded appropriately just for trying to play the game the way it was meant to be played. This could also be partly based on how much damage/healing the player does, for those that are moving between capture points or whatever and getting caught outside of the "reward zone" of a point.

 

2. Something else for various types of unlockables, such as the speeders, different types of social gear, pets, or whatever else. Basically, something that does not affect the way PvP is played at all. This is what people should be getting more of if they win a game, and less if they lose. This leaves the grind of unlocking cool and exclusive toys, making players feel "special" because they have something that may be rare.

 

The PvP aspect of this game would be a lot more enjoyable for everyone if these changes were made.

 

It's also pretty sad that the only time PvP is actually fun in this game is the 1-49 grind. Regardless if I win or lose in those, my character at least stands a chance. Soon as you hit 50, you're immediately at the bottom of the food chain and just a snack to everyone there. You just don't stand a chance at all, even if you try to play the game like it was meant to be played.

 

On a side note, it wouldn't be quite so terrible if you were allowed to farm commendations and buy the Battlemaster gear before hand. All of my below 50 characters are stuck with max 2000 commendations because they have nothing to spend them on and can't buy something that would actually be useful for them down the road. They're literally forced to bend over and take it for hours on end, day after day until they can finally enjoy the game once they can properly compete.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Jisu

[V-Serp]

Eh, it seems the people that play MMOs like this system. It rewards time invested and uneven teams more than ability.

 

If they wanted level playing fields, these people would be playing RTS, FPS, Chess or a multitude of other games that give you zero advantage for having played longer, and generally also won't let you group up to play against solo players.

 

Or they'd just go play GW2, if they still wanted the MMO style to it but a level playing field and no grind.

 

MMOs thrive because the people that have all the gear will keep subbed because it gives them e-peen powers over a new group. The key to keeping this group of hardcore fans is to release a new set of gear after these people have gotten it but before most other people have gotten most of it.

[Jisu]

People would play PvP regardless of the grind. The grind is just there for added incentive. If I had my way, I would remove pvp gear altogether, but since I don't...

 

Anyway, my suggestion would keep all the "fun" of grinding for unimportant crap still there, it's just making it easier on the losers by giving them equal rewards for at least trying. If the system of roflstomping a weaker enemy over and over is "the way people like it", then those people are a bunch of *******, and the people that cater to them are stupidheads.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Jisu

[V-Serp]

People would play PvP regardless of the grind. The grind is just there for added incentive. If I had my way, I would remove pvp gear altogether, but since I don't...

 

Anyway, my suggestion would keep all the "fun" of grinding for unimportant crap still there, it's just making it easier on the losers by giving them equal rewards for at least trying. If the system of roflstomping a weaker enemy over and over is "the way people like it", then those people are a bunch of *******, and the people that cater to them are stupidheads.

 

How are you going to justify a recurring sub without the grind? No competitive game has a recurring sub. When I've brought up the same things you have, people have responded that they would not pay a sub without the gear and that nobody would.

 

Have you seen all the premade vs. PUG threads? People throw absolute fits over suggesting the queues are separated. They get seriously angry about it. These people absolutely do not want a level playing field under any circumstances. Oh sure they'll claim they do, but then they constantly contradict themselves and ignore simple logic no matter how clearly you point it out.

 

That is why these types of MMOs are primarily PVE and PVP is just an afterthought. They have to justify a subscription fee somehow.

[Jisu]

Didn't say anything about taking out the grind. By removing pvp gear, I really meant expertise. Then people who spend time raiding for their gear can still compete in pvp.

[Jakeswed]

Didn't say anything about taking out the grind. By removing pvp gear, I really meant expertise. Then people who spend time raiding for their gear can still compete in pvp.

 

No, expertise is a great system, it really only needs some tweaking (to pre 1.2 numbers....)

 

PVE and PVP gear shouldn't have the same stats or pvp players would be able to have BiS for pve without even having to do a single operation and the other way around for pve players.

[looneybinjim]

i dont see the problem now. since they did the rewards patch after 1.2 the rewards for losing are generally much better than they were even before 1.2. sure you get the odd game where you meet up with a team that rolls your team, and you get significantly less than the winners because its difficult to gain medals under those circumstances but thats just the nature of the game.

 

the fact is you can lose a game and as long as you put in some effort you can come out with 90 medals. i see no issue with this. the reward system is currently well balanced imo.

[Polebreaker]

No, it's not well balanced. When you reward the winning faction with the ability to get better gear and win more often, you create a feedback loop from which there is no escape. The winning faction will continue to win more and more and be rewarded with more and more win-enabling gear until the losing faction simply stops showing up - this is already happening on my server. This is compounded by the winning and now overpopulated faction getting to play against themselves, thus playing more matches, getting more rewards and gear, etc. And there are many other threads which discuss this thoroughly.

 

The sad part is that this is blazingly obvious to anyone with half a brain, and shouldve been in game design 101 for the so-called Best PVP Team in the Business.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Polebreaker

[TonyDragonflame]

On a side note, it wouldn't be quite so terrible if you were allowed to farm commendations and buy the Battlemaster gear before hand. All of my below 50 characters are stuck with max 2000 commendations because they have nothing to spend them on and can't buy something that would actually be useful for them down the road. They're literally forced to bend over and take it for hours on end, day after day until they can finally enjoy the game once they can properly compete.

 

Change your wz comms on ranked wz comms since valor 40, and you to 50 lvl will have enough of them for buy some war hero's pieces.

[Doozzer]

If they wanted level playing fields, these people would be playing RTS, FPS, Chess or a multitude of other games that give you zero advantage for having played longer, and generally also won't let you group up to play against solo players.

 

There is no game played on a board, on a video game console, on a table, on a PC, or anywhere in LIFE that does not reward advantage for having played the game longer.

 

its just like everything else. Put in the work to be good at it, even if being good at it only means you're the guy that shows up on time, all the time. Some people just choose to put the work into SWTOR instead of their family, their health, or their resume. That's their business. It just so happens that when you choose to play SWTOR, they make it your business too.

[Leiralei]

How are you going to justify a recurring sub without the grind? No competitive game has a recurring sub. When I've brought up the same things you have, people have responded that they would not pay a sub without the gear and that nobody would.

 

Has this been surveyed? I suspect there's an awful lot of nobodies.

 

The other day, pre-50 wz, my team just rolled over everything. I was bored the whole game and didn't even feel like I did anything. Sure, did tons of damage and protection but there was no FIGHT. It was a resounding meh.

[V-Serp]

There is no game played on a board, on a video game console, on a table, on a PC, or anywhere in LIFE that does not reward advantage for having played the game longer.

 

False. It is the exact opposite.

 

In an FPS, you don't get the best gun in the game at the start of a match because you played longer. In chess your pawns aren't all turned into queens at the start of a match because you've played longer. In RTS you don't start out with an entire army while they just have SCVs because you played longer.

 

Every single thing in life starts out with everyone on equal footing for competition. MMOs are the outlier.

[Magnesium]

I don't understand why winners are awarded 3 times as many tokens as losers.

 

I stopped reading. You obviously don't understand how the commendations awarded. I've lost a game and got 90+ tokens, I've won a game and got 70. System is fine, it awarded winners and losers who try hard enough get a decent reward and people with recruit gear are not that bad to have in a WZ and can easily farm BM gear with a bit of time/effort.

[Aetou]

The Tier 50 warzones are a joke. I don't understand why winners are awarded 3 times as many tokens as losers. It's a pretty simple concept, really - if you're a winner, it's likely because the other team is not as geared as you. Instead of helping those players, they're punished continuously until they get through one of the most terribly un-fun grinds in any mmo; the grind where undergeared players are forced to play against geared players in an uneven matchup. It's likely the people winning don't even need the tokens, either, which makes the whole prospect even more hilarious and stupid.

 

I think you're making this post a couple of weeks too late. This just isn't the case any more. I've been in games where the difference between the winners and losers is a mere 10 comms (less than 10%, we had about 120 and they had 130.) Even if you get absolutely facerolled you'll now be getting 60-70 comms and the winners will rarely get even double that because to get maximum commendations the game needs to run close to full length (something like a 6-0 VS win where you attacked first and took almost the full time to get to the datacore.

[Lulzbot]

So let me get this straight, you want people who LOSE to get as much as people who WIN?

 

Current system is fine as is, and yes. I lose WZs too.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Averran
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[MandraMoody]

No, it's not well balanced. When you reward the winning faction with the ability to get better gear and win more often, you create a feedback loop from which there is no escape. The winning faction will continue to win more and more and be rewarded with more and more win-enabling gear until the losing faction simply stops showing up - this is already happening on my server. This is compounded by the winning and now overpopulated faction getting to play against themselves, thus playing more matches, getting more rewards and gear, etc. And there are many other threads which discuss this thoroughly.

 

The sad part is that this is blazingly obvious to anyone with half a brain, and shouldve been in game design 101 for the so-called Best PVP Team in the Business.

 

Agree totally and it's happening on mine too. No fun when you are fully BM'd and stuck in an 18 loss streak and it's 3k+ til a WH piece...and you get 80 comms even when your medals are 10+

 

Edit: forgot to add in the bug I currently have having 114/150 armaments in the weekly for the past 9 matches despite my kills

Edited April 29, 2012 by MandraMoody

[Kaarsa]

The Tier 50 warzones are a joke. I don't understand why winners are awarded 3 times as many tokens as losers.

 

Lol....highest reward I have seen as winner was 140 (and it was a 3-4minute roflstomp huttball). When I lose, I average around 80-90 comms. 3x higher means that you dont get more than 1-2 medals and your team is crushed in seconds. You dont deserve reward then. Fight, dont afk at your 1 turret, play a team game not team death match and your rewards will be higher. Otherwise, you simple get as many as you are worth - zero.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Kaarsa

[Geglad]

No, it's not well balanced. When you reward the winning faction with the ability to get better gear and win more often, you create a feedback loop from which there is no escape. The winning faction will continue to win more and more and be rewarded with more and more win-enabling gear until the losing faction simply stops showing up - this is already happening on my server. This is compounded by the winning and now overpopulated faction getting to play against themselves, thus playing more matches, getting more rewards and gear, etc. And there are many other threads which discuss this thoroughly.

 

The sad part is that this is blazingly obvious to anyone with half a brain, and shouldve been in game design 101 for the so-called Best PVP Team in the Business.

 

This is truth. The effects are obvious - the progression of players, whether in gear or levels, that have an overall higher win ratio because of the gear or levels that they attain via rewards from winning limits the chances of competitors from winning, thus increasing their win rate. Since the only limit to the amount of rewards that can be gained by already geared players is the currency cap, a soft cap easily manipulated by purchases of the gear that increases win rates, I suggest a hard-cap.

 

Much like the old farming of bosses for gear before the idea of raid-locks is other MMOs, the purchase of end-game quality PvP gear is not paced, and essentially can be continuously farmed. Raid-locks served to pace the acquisition of gear, and through that pacing subscriptions were retained. A hard weekly cap on the amount of Warzone Commendations that can be gained would serve much the same purpose. Depending on the amount of gear that the developers wanted to release into the PvP population, rewards for both winning and losing as well as cost could be tweaked around this hard-cap. As a secondary effect, once you reach the hardcap, because a player can gain no further rewards, there is little incentive to play, except for fun. All of the PvP players who have claimed that they play for fun would have their chance to show that they do play for fun. The supposed hard-cores could have their rewards in a timely manner. And the casual player and those just beginning to gear up would be able to invest more time to fill the gap in gear.

 

Implement a hard-cap and tweak gear tiers within +/- 2% of projected output per AC, if not done already. This will rebalance PvP gearing soon after the next tier release. The classes are another issue entirely.

 

 

 

-Lad

Edited April 29, 2012 by Geglad

[looneybinjim]

Agree totally and it's happening on mine too. No fun when you are fully BM'd and stuck in an 18 loss streak and it's 3k+ til a WH piece...and you get 80 comms even when your medals are 10+

 

Edit: forgot to add in the bug I currently have having 114/150 armaments in the weekly for the past 9 matches despite my kills

 

armamanets? i thought they got rid of the ilum based quests? am i missing a trick here? lol

[Polebreaker]

The kill/collect armaments missions that you already had didnt get erased with 1.2, but they are gone and will no longer update... just abandon them, they are dead.

 

Implement a hard-cap and tweak gear tiers within +/- 2% of projected output per AC, if not done already. This will rebalance PvP gearing soon after the next tier release. The classes are another issue entirely.

 

That's a very interesting idea, and merits some consideration. Other than the possible reduced participation of those who ONLY play for the gear, I'm still trying to find a real down side.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Polebreaker

[MandraMoody]

armamanets? i thought they got rid of the ilum based quests? am i missing a trick here? lol

 

Well the weekly says defeat players/get armaments/play war zones...but you don't get credit for a direct play of a wz or defeat of players, only 3 armaments at the end (unless you are bugged and stuck) no matter the kills/win/medals you earn. By that token let's say you play a WZ and kill 20 players...that SHOULD be 21 points right there toward the weekly unless I missed some dev post explaining how we do not get credit past 3 or some excuse for not adhering to the quest dialogue (not big on fine print).

 

Problem is even if not bugged you DO NOT get credit towards this by killing players at all. You can have 20+ kills and only still get 3 armaments as credit once the match is over win or lose.

 

I had to go to Ilum to finish this one as my armaments were only credited once every so-many matches(the bug).

[MandraMoody]

The kill/collect armaments missions that you already had didnt get erased with 1.2, but they are gone and will no longer update... just abandon them, they are dead.

 

The weekly pvp quest is still being offered post 1.2 on the mission terminal, you can use Ilum to complete and unfortunately for me, I had to as my credit for the war zones had been stuck for many matches. I did submit a /bug on it tho.

[vrgadin]

People would play PvP regardless of the grind. The grind is just there for added incentive. If I had my way, I would remove pvp gear altogether, but since I don't...

 

Anyway, my suggestion would keep all the "fun" of grinding for unimportant crap still there, it's just making it easier on the losers by giving them equal rewards for at least trying. If the system of roflstomping a weaker enemy over and over is "the way people like it", then those people are a bunch of *******, and the people that cater to them are stupidheads.

 

why do you think 99% of pvpers grind fast when a new set comes out?

 

cause they want a gear advantage, they wont admit it but its very true.

[ShadowOfVey]

My friends that have geared lev 50 pvp mains and have recently leveled up alts to 50 seem to have little trouble performing fine in the recruit gear as they look to gear up these new alts over time.

 

The bottom of the food chain upon walking in the door business isn't anywhere near as severe as people make it out to be.

[Nastysoul]

My friends that have geared lev 50 pvp mains and have recently leveled up alts to 50 seem to have little trouble performing fine in the recruit gear as they look to gear up these new alts over time.

 

The bottom of the food chain upon walking in the door business isn't anywhere near as severe as people make it out to be.

 

Care to say what faction and class they are re-rolling? I bet I know the answer.