What is the point of Commando's now??

[Kailmanson]

We all know that Bioware reads these forums, if not only to scan

 

So Bioware the question is what is the reason for having Commandos in the game?

 

PvE - Operations

Do we bring DPS to the raid?

-- No. Compared to gunslingers, sentinels, and shadows we are always towards the bottome of the damage output.

-- If we spec for Gunnery we can not go full bore all out on dps since we will be so depleted by mid swing we will be casting hammer shot for 2 min.

-- If we spec Assault its twice as bad with a lot less dmg output.

Can we bring AOE dps the raid?

-- Sure. If by AOE dps you mean Mortar Volley on a long recast timer and a very tiney aoe bubble, or Pulse cannon that has a small cone and a hefty ammo cost and it requires you to stick your body inside the mobs just so u can hope to hit 2 or 3, or is it Hail of Bolts that has a large ammo cost and a small aoe bubble.

------Force in Balance hits harder than mortar volley, half the recast timer, and gives power back plus heals the shadow. That is just one example of a far superior ability.

Is it our amazing Grav Round Debuff?

-- Well it could be but a Gaurdian brings a similar debuff to the raid, its insta cast, and it feeds the guardian power.

-- Grav Round was nerfed, which I 100% agreed with from the PvP standpoint. However you nerfed Grav Round and doubled the cost of it, and to top it all off we have no choice but to cast it. Everything proc's off Grav Round.

 

So Bioware what is the point of bringing a Commando to the operation??

 

PvP

Grav Round

-- Got kicked in the teeth now does about 1k less dmg. Makes sense and it stops all the grav round spammers, you know who u are.

Demolition Round

-- 1.2 was supposed to increase Damage to Demolition Round by 10%. For 24 Hours Demolition Round did 10% more dmg and you did an emergency nerf taking it back to pre 1.2.

 

WHY??

 

Everybody and there brother is doing Force Sweeps for 6k. Force Leap -- Force Sweep 6k booooom done.

 

Commando Demo round to hit 6k

Stop moving, Stand in Place, locate target, Grav Round Grav Round Grav Round Demo Round. During this time the opponent can force sprint away, Stealth, LOS us (thats line of sight btw) stun us, and everyones favorite interupt us.

 

So again ............. One of you have the "______________" to asnwer the question

Edited May 3, 2012 by Averran
discussion of moderation

[Kushtaka]

It's obvious: either most of the developers or some lead dev plays anything other than Commando/Merc and since they're probably as predictably bad at their own game as other developers from other games, they felt the need to destroy this class. Why? Well, they were probably being typically B-A-D at this game whilst playing some e-z mode Assassin or Marauder or Sorcerer and got rolled by a Commando in some intense PvP action late one night at the Bioware offices. Most likely one of the junior developers @ Bioware was the guy on the Commando who just wrecked them and he just had to rub it in that they were obviously pretty bad if they couldn't take out the easiest class to defeat 1v1 in the game. That's just my opinion but I could be wrong.

[Lexb]

It's obvious: either most of the developers or some lead dev plays anything other than Commando/Merc and since they're probably as predictably bad at their own game as other developers from other games, they felt the need to destroy this class. Why? Well, they were probably being typically B-A-D at this game whilst playing some e-z mode Assassin or Marauder or Sorcerer and got rolled by a Commando in some intense PvP action late one night at the Bioware offices. Most likely one of the junior developers @ Bioware was the guy on the Commando who just wrecked them and he just had to rub it in that they were obviously pretty bad if they couldn't take out the easiest class to defeat 1v1 in the game. That's just my opinion but I could be wrong.

 

Dammit, i have a real bad feeling that can be the true behind the nerf... It's a mediocre, poor and dumb reason enough. This reason fits on reality like a glove. It´s so perfect... LOL

 

After 1.2, BW common sense is rare, like a superpower.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Lexb

[Kushtaka]

Dammit, i have a real bad feeling that can be the true behind the nerf... It's a mediocre, poor and dumb reason enough. This reason fits on reality like a glove. It´s so perfect... LOL

 

After 1.2, BW common sense is rare, like a superpower.

 

Exactly. Mediocre, poor and dumb are all I have left.

[Fight]

 

-- If we spec for Gunnery we can not go full bore all out on dps since we will be so depleted by mid swing we will be casting hammer shot for 2 min. You are mismanaging your ammo, weave those hammers in between your rotation, keeping your ammo above 70% and your dps will increase. Its not rocket science.

 

-- Sure. If by AOE dps you mean Mortar Volley on a long recast timer and a very tiney aoe bubble, or Pulse cannon that has a small cone and a hefty ammo cost and it requires you to stick your body inside the mobs just so u can hope to hit 2 or 3, or is it Hail of Bolts that has a large ammo cost and a small aoe bubble. While I agree our aoe is sub-par when compared with other classes, in a raid environment AOE is worthless on any fight that matters anyway.

 

Is it our amazing Grav Round Debuff? This debuff is actually pretty good against a boss, it's percentage based.

 

-- Well it could be but a Gaurdian brings a similar debuff to the raid, its insta cast, and it feeds the guardian power. This has to be cast, while ours is "always up"

 

However you nerfed Grav Round and doubled the cost of it, and to top it all off we have no choice but to cast it. Everything proc's off Grav Round. Grav round has exactly the same cost as pre 1.2, stop spreading misinformation. You have to spec in to it to move up the tree, everyone is.

 

Grav Round

-- Got kicked in the teeth now does about 1k less dmg. Makes sense and it stops all the grav round spammers, you know who u are. Your numbers are incorrect

 

Demolition Round

-- 1.2 was supposed to increase Damage to Demolition Round by 10%. For 24 Hours Demolition Round did 10% more dmg and you did an emergency nerf taking it back to pre 1.2. Again, its hard to trust your time keeping if you think it was a 24 hour period. It was over a week. It was also increased by 50% with 5 vortex's, not 10% - If you plan to come here and post numbers please at least do some research and get them right.

 

Everybody and there brother is doing Force Sweeps for 6k. Force Leap -- Force Sweep 6k booooom done. Exaggerate much?

 

Answers above for you, we do have genuine issues with our class and we are in a dire state at the moment, I would however appreciate if you gathered some rational information and presented it in a proper way here instead of spreading useless, factless garbage to the community.

[Kailmanson]

Answers above for you, we do have genuine issues with our class and we are in a dire state at the moment, I would however appreciate if you gathered some rational information and presented it in a proper way here instead of spreading useless, factless garbage to the community.

 

Like usual someone is missing the point, but thats ok . You see Mr. Iknoweverythingthereistoknowaboutcommandos the point of the post was not to be 100000% specific. The point of the poste was for simple reasons really.

1) Most of the skills that we have other class's have and, and usuallly its a better version

2) If another class has some of our same skill sets, plus do more damage, then there is no reason to have a commando in raid.

3) In no way was I asking you or someone else question's. I know and Knew everything that you "answered" on the forum. However its ok, you got to show your arse a bit and it satisfied you.

 

Do I really really really really really really really really need to break everything down for you. It seems that the 3-4 people before managed to understand the train of thought, however it seems the train didnt stop at your station.

[Glorionn]

If you're attempting to make an honest, constructive post, it's simple. Don't make **** up. I'm happy with my commando in pve. Pvp is ok, I don't mind our burst, but some buffage on survivability would be good.

[Dayrun]

Fact is Grav round was nerfed 25%. Which BTW for the high end commando is probably 1k average DPS.

 

Bioware said it was 10%, and thats just a total lie.

[Kailmanson]

We all know that Bioware reads these forums, if not only to scan

 

So Bioware the question is what is the reason for having Commandos in the game?

 

PvE - Operations

Do we bring DPS to the raid?

-- No. Compared to gunslingers, sentinels, and shadows we are always towards the bottome of the damage output.

-- If we spec for Gunnery we can not go full bore all out on dps since we will be so depleted by mid swing we will be casting hammer shot for 2 min. I am sorry you missunderstood Full Bore DPS. What I meant was Full Bore DPS. You know after a joust when you have to do a 15-20 second hard burn. I feel like you wont understand this either.

-- If we spec Assault its twice as bad with a lot less dmg output.

Can we bring AOE dps the raid?

-- Sure. If by AOE dps you mean Mortar Volley on a long recast timer and a very tiney aoe bubble, or Pulse cannon that has a small cone and a hefty ammo cost and it requires you to stick your body inside the mobs just so u can hope to hit 2 or 3, or is it Hail of Bolts that has a large ammo cost and a small aoe bubble. So If you ever do a Nightmare Mode OP or the Denova HM you will know that the trash is harder than the mobs. Why is this you ask? Well there is 5-10 mobs per pull and they hit like trucks. So this would conclude that you need to burn them down quickly.... Correct?

------Force in Balance hits harder than mortar volley, half the recast timer, and gives power back plus heals the shadow. That is just one example of a far superior ability.

Is it our amazing Grav Round Debuff? Thank You for stating the obvious

-- Well it could be but a Gaurdian brings a similar debuff to the raid, its insta cast, and it feeds the guardian power. Really? It has to be cast while ours is always up. So we dont have to cast Grav Round to put the debuff on the name? Why didnt someone say this earlier? Grav round takes 2 ammo for the debuff, Guardians debuff gives them power.

-- Grav Round was nerfed, which I 100% agreed with from the PvP standpoint. However you nerfed Grav Round and doubled the cost of it, and to top it all off we have no choice but to cast it. Everything proc's off Grav Round.

 

So Bioware what is the point of bringing a Commando to the operation??

 

PvP

Grav Round

-- Got kicked in the teeth now does about 1k less dmg. Makes sense and it stops all the grav round spammers, you know who u are. If you do not see a 1k difference in damage then you never min/maxed your gear. If you dont know what min/max means then I can explain it to you. The fact remains that Grav Round took around a 1k hit. Now when someone says "About" it usually means.... about. That could mean 800-1200 per shot, or it could mean about 1k. /shrug

Demolition Round

-- 1.2 was supposed to increase Damage to Demolition Round by 10%. For 24 Hours Demolition Round did 10% more dmg and you did an emergency nerf taking it back to pre 1.2. Sorry if it wasnt 24 hours, for this I apologize, however i dont beleive it was over a week. Secondly in no way was it a 50% increase in damage. Do you have any idea how much high end damage that would be, holy hell. Pre 1.2 my Demo Round would max out at around 5k. This is giver or take 200 and again I said max out, with the average hit of 4k. After 1.2 I was getting hits in the 6k range, now when you do your super duper math starting with the base damage and adding crit + surge that would be around 10%. If you did a 50% increase OMG...... it would be in the 10-11k range. Now I am sure some Math wiz will burn me down in about 3.5 seconds however you cannot convince me that Demo Round at any point was hitting 50% harder. You would 1 shot people.

 

WHY??

 

Everybody and there brother is doing Force Sweeps for 6k. Force Leap -- Force Sweep 6k booooom done.Exaggerate much?? no not really. My buddy Dargos is hitting for 6k atleast 2-3 times per warzone. My Guardian alt who is lvl 30 hits for 6k atleast 3-4 times per warzone.

 

Commando Demo round to hit 6k

Stop moving, Stand in Place, locate target, Grav Round Grav Round Grav Round Demo Round. During this time the opponent can force sprint away, Stealth, LOS us (thats line of sight btw) stun us, and everyones favorite interupt us.

 

So again ............. One of you have the "______________" to asnwer the question

 

This is in response to Fight, or whatever his name was.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Averran
edited quote

[Fight]

This is in response to Fight, or whatever his name was.

 

So basically, you dont understand that your class needs to be above 70% ammo and/or you dont understand at what point you should start burning ammo towards the end of the fight. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

You do not need to "burn denova mobs" down in either 8 or 16 man, you will have two tanks, as depicted by the first two sets of bosses, if your tanks are unable to handle the mobs or your dps is unable to cc/target correctly then that is your issue, AOE is a luxury that usually leads to chaos.

 

Our grav round debuff comes as a side effect of a necessary skill which takes up the majority of our rotation, we don't need to stop and cast it to be viable, its always up. If you are failing to understand that you are not playing correctly, thanks for trying though.

 

I am in full rakata and have been for over a month, please don't feed me metrics, I am well aware of what damage we do. You seem to be making a lot of numbers up here to support your ridiculous theories, I suppose this is just another one to go with them?

 

It was over a week and it was widely known that we were getting a double increase from a 5 stack vortex at 25% x 2 = 50%. This isn't some new information, this is something that has been tested time and time again and confirmed in a dev response. For someone min/maxing his equipment and recording exact (ridiculous) figures for other skills I thought perhaps you might have noticed this, but alas you didn't, because you're spouting rubbish and clearly have not been following our issues or discussions.

 

Again, stop spreading useless misinformation when real issues exist. Many thanks.

[Kailmanson]

So basically, you dont understand that your class needs to be above 70% ammo and/or you dont understand at what point you should start burning ammo towards the end of the fight. Thank you for clearing that up.I am glad you are so willing to share this valuable information, however at no point in my "ranting" did I ever say that I had power issues. Why you keep going back to this I am not sure. If I may clarify since even now you really dont understand what I am meaning. Counselors regen power at a quickened rate and have less downtime, Knights have 2 abilitys that give power and do dmg plus all there other additive abilities they put points into, and Troopers get 2 abilitys on long recast timers. Before you go all crazy I know how to use them and no I dont have power issues.

 

You do not need to "burn denova mobs" down in either 8 or 16 man, you will have two tanks, as depicted by the first two sets of bosses, if your tanks are unable to handle the mobs or your dps is unable to cc/target correctly then that is your issue, AOE is a luxury that usually leads to chaos. One example of a burn fight would be SOA. Stage 3 pillar drops you have 15 sec or so to "burn." WTH is a CC? We dont use them, We dont need to use them. Call that arrogance if you will.... However you missed the point yet again..

 

Our grav round debuff comes as a side effect of a necessary skill which takes up the majority of our rotation, we don't need to stop and cast it to be viable, its always up. If you are failing to understand that you are not playing correctly, thanks for trying though. Great Defence, really it was. Howerver yet again I respond with a "Really?" So you think that a Guardian using Sundering Strike is not in there rotation? 2 force and a mitigation debuff..... yeah I think they do. Grav Round costs 2 amo, Sundering Strike gives 2 Force. Do you have another defence handy?

 

I am in full rakata and have been for over a month, please don't feed me metrics, I am well aware of what damage we do. You seem to be making a lot of numbers up here to support your ridiculous theories, I suppose this is just another one to go with them? I am sorry that I did not pull out my trusty pencil and algebra book to offer exact numbers to support what I was saying. I am not speaking in "exacts" as you would like to beleive I am. Wich is why when I give numbers I use words like "about" or "around.:

 

It was over a week and it was widely known that we were getting a double increase from a 5 stack vortex at 25% x 2 = 50%. This isn't some new information, this is something that has been tested time and time again and confirmed in a dev response. For someone min/maxing his equipment and recording exact (ridiculous) figures for other skills I thought perhaps you might have noticed this, but alas you didn't, because you're spouting rubbish and clearly have not been following our issues or discussions. Sorry if I dont beleive you or the devs. Common Sense tells you this. If you are doing 4k per hit after your base dmg and surge plus expertise and there expertise and blah blah blah. Then after 1.2c you are hitting for roughly the same amount of dmg then they lied. You do know that a 10% increase to dmg does not mean you take your 4k hit and add 10% to it right? The end result is not 4400. It is 10% increase to the base dmg. If the vortex really added 50% to the base dmg the hits would be much harder than 6k as an end result.

 

Again, stop spreading useless misinformation when real issues exist. Many thanks.

 

You are still shadowing the fact that a commando is a waste of space in an operation. I know this and I have played a commando since day 1. How do you not understand this?

[Lexb]

Exactly. Mediocre, poor and dumb are all I have left.

 

I know exactly what you mean.

 

And i still have a good amount of prepaid time to think a lot about it.

[Senscith]

Grav Round damage bonus wasn't stacking double, for some reason the armor pen from Demo Round was higher than the rest of our shots. So you were getting upwards of 70% armor pen with Demo Round which is why it was hitting so hard and why Grav Round seems to be broken when it comes to the armor debuff after their emergency nerf. I mean patch. Edited April 28, 2012 by Senscith

[Fight]

You are still shadowing the fact that a commando is a waste of space in an operation. I know this and I have played a commando since day 1. How do you not understand this?

 

At no point did I disagree with you, you are 100% correct that we are worse than all other classes. What I am trying to tell you is that you don't need to make up a bunch of fantasy, over exaggerated facts to say it. Speak your mind and if you use numbers and examples at least get them right. How do you not understand this?

[Kailmanson]

At no point did I disagree with you, you are 100% correct that we are worse than all other classes. What I am trying to tell you is that you don't need to make up a bunch of fantasy, over exaggerated facts to say it. Speak your mind and if you use numbers and examples at least get them right. How do you not understand this?

 

/shrug I assumed when I said about, around, or average that you would understand I was not using exact examples. I was wrong on the timline of events when it came to 1.2 and 1.2c and for that I apologized. I am tired of the pissing contest and trying to figure out whos dad can beat up who.

 

I wanted to convey my thoughts as to why the Commando was a waste of space. I hoped BW during there tireless effort to fine people using profanity and telling people they suck they might take the 30 seconds to read yet 1 more post as to why the commando class sucks.

[Lexb]

/shrug I assumed when I said about, around, or average that you would understand I was not using exact examples. I was wrong on the timline of events when it came to 1.2 and 1.2c and for that I apologized. I am tired of the pissing contest and trying to figure out whos dad can beat up who.

 

I wanted to convey my thoughts as to why the Commando was a waste of space. I hoped BW during there tireless effort to fine people using profanity and telling people they suck they might take the 30 seconds to read yet 1 more post as to why the commando class sucks.

 

/clap /bow and /cheers for that.

 

Hmmm... Maybe the Reapers invaded BW... There´s a lot of indocrination BS in Commando Forum when customers complains about their rights. There always someone anxious to use the "You suck..." or "learn your class..." bs. IMO, they think BW will pet their heads someday for being a good pet/tool/dog/boy or whatever.

 

If they have this kind of behavior when they see ppl complaining about their rights, and they don´t have the shame to go into a public forum to show everyone how they respect other ppl rights. they probably suck at real life. And that is far, far, far more pathetic compared to "suck" in a broken (on purpose) bugged game.

 

I always will be at side of ppl who try to get better services/products for their money. That´s the way all ppl can have better services. It´s basic concept/idea. But sometimes we can just figure that simple things are just too far away to others. They had a product called "3", BW came and patched it to "2", they still pay "3" and they are very happy to get "2" at the end, in one year they will have hopes to finally get "1". Don't try to understand that because “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.”

 

BTW, sry any mistype, English is not my 1st language.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Lexb

[Kushtaka]

I'm in full BM and have been and I still get hit for over 5k by Smash (Force Sweep). Is that fair and balanced? Ask Fox News, maybe they have the answer.

[Kailmanson]

I'm in full BM and have been and I still get hit for over 5k by Smash (Force Sweep). Is that fair and balanced? Ask Fox News, maybe they have the answer.

 

According to Fight you are over exagerating.

 

I have the "New" battlemaster with the 100 expertise on it, War Lord boots, Gloves, and Weapon and still get face ***** by smash........

[Fight]

According to Fight you are over exagerating.

 

I have the "New" battlemaster with the 100 expertise on it, War Lord boots, Gloves, and Weapon and still get face ***** by smash........

 

Kailmanson: "Everybody and there brother is doing Force Sweeps for 6k. Force Leap -- Force Sweep 6k booooom done."

 

Then

 

Kailmanson: My buddy Dargos is hitting for 6k atleast 2-3 times per warzone.

 

Then

 

I still get hit for over 5k by Smash

 

Predictions

 

I get hit for 4k once per warzone, I get hit by roughly 3k once a day, I get hit for 2.5k'ish once a week.

[ImariKurumi]

You are still shadowing the fact that a commando is a waste of space in an operation. I know this and I have played a commando since day 1. How do you not understand this?

 

Not true, we're not a waste of space. Guilds take me because theres too many Jedis around, having a commando in the OPs means less competition for Jedi drops hahahahaha.

 

Yea, its that sad of a situation... Commandos can't duo heal in Denova... I do fairly ok in PvP but still way far off compared to Sages and Scoundrel...

[Talvathir]

The only thing we really need is Concussive Round CD reduced to 20s and it being usable while moving + lowered CD on Tenacity. Very annoying to get forcechoked and then 2 secs later you look down and theres a blade sticking out of your chest while you do a Shakin' Stevens. That is the situation where we need a boost. The reduced damage we can handle, after all, we are the republics finest

[Fhrosty]

Just to throw in my 2c, I'm not a heavy number-cruncher, but I'm still mad enjoying my PVE commando despite the nerf. As BW intended, I stopped spamming Grav Round every fight and actually bothered to learn a real rotation. I learned ammo management, and I learned how to burst at the end of boss fights. My guild has an abundance of healers right now, so I'm subbing as DPS (especially since that's the role I lvl'd with). In mostly Tionese, I'm holding my own in DPS in every HM and Op I've been on, and that's while geared as a healer and with a hybrid dps/healer build. And more than once I've been able to time a well-placed KB or no-cast-time MP to save a teammate when the healer gets into a snag. Am I successfully contributing to my HMs and raids? Yes, though I could improve my DPS significantly with proper gear + build. Can I do as much DPS as I could before the nerf? Probably not. Would I step into PVP? Not with any dilusions of hope. Am I still having fun in PVE? Frak yes!

[zykklon]

In PVP Commandos are a great target dummy.

[Hediori]

I realise I speak with very little authority, only having hit 50 on my commando after 1.2, but I'm finding PvP as a fully specced CM to be thoroughly enjoyable Disregarding the odd, infuriating game where it seems the entire world is ganging up on me!

[TUXs]

Not true, we're not a waste of space. Guilds take me because theres too many Jedis around, having a commando in the OPs means less competition for Jedi drops hahahahaha.

 

Yea, its that sad of a situation... Commandos can't duo heal in Denova... I do fairly ok in PvP but still way far off compared to Sages and Scoundrel...

 

LOL! Clever

 

The nerfs we've been given and the state we're currently in is pathetic. On target dummies, we're out dps'd by everyone else (DPS specd). Commando is a waste right now...an utter waste of a DPS spot.