To the biased Sents/Maras defending their OP class

[Schwarzwald]

is 500k consistently accepted?

 

no but really, ppl just l2p and stop complaining..every class has its weaknesses.

 

tell that to sage/sorcs

[Schwarzwald]

So... Juggernauts are a " joke of a class", and because of this, sent/mara is overpowered? What? Mercs are underpowered therefore powertechs are overpowered? What?

 

Also, there are 3 dots, but one is a 31 point talent and another is an 11 point talent in a different tree. Please, understand the class before ranting about it. Granted, if you understood it, you wouldn't be ranting... /shrug

 

l2read.

 

If you want to be a damage sponge as a juggernaut you are going to have a bad time. I said they are a joke if you look at their mitigation in comparison to their medium armor counterpart.

[Xerain]

But the vanish can be used to interrupt ranged attacks on you.

 

 

Also, Stop bringing up other classes. I am comparing Maras to Jugs. Also, newsflash. I never stated that Juggernauts should have more escapes. I said they need to be better at mitigation and damage reducing abilities, and right now, Marauders abilities top anything that Jugs have.

 

Undying Rage Spends 50% of current health to grant 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds. 90s CD

 

That sounds like it can be used in every engagement and the ability is even better when you have a healer to get you back up.

 

Invincible Reduces all damage taken by 40% for 10 seconds. 180s CD

 

This can only be used a few times in a warzone, half the amount that Undying Rage could potentially be spent. And while it is nice, you will not survive focus fire from a bunch of people, unlike you would with Undying Rage.

 

 

The point I am trying to make is that when properly used marauder damage mitigating abilities are 'better' then juggernauts, and ontop of that they have really good escapes that can be activated through roots. While Juggernaut mobility/'escapes' require teammates that are in line of site and that you are not rooted. Also that Marauder damage output 100% trumps that of Juggernauts.

 

So pretty much it boils down to that Juggernauts are only more mobile when things are ideally set up and have more utility. I'm not trying to say that jugs are underpowered. I think our class is in a really good spot right now, besides the lack of damage mitigation that we have always had. Rage used to be overpowered, but that was fixed. Its time to fix Marauder abilities.

 

You wanna know how i feel about undying rage... make it a Sith Warrior base ability and make it so you can't use it while in your tanking stance and can't switch stances while it's active, be a little op'ed in pve if you could.

 

And quit complaining that sniper is a bigger counter to juggs than it is to marauders. Boo hoo i have an anti class? I hate tankasins btw.

[Apocalypse-]

Marauders were really underpowere din beta.

And what changed? No offensive abilities were added to Sentinels post ~September. 5 Abilities were added on December 1st, the last pre-launch build: Trasncendence, Zen, Inspiration (the 3 centering options), Rebuke, and GBTF. For overall combat effectiveness, only Rebuke and GBTF are major players. You just admitted without them, we were "really underpowered". Now you're arguing to take them away? Wonder what the result of that would be...

Edited April 29, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[Xerain]

Intercede doesn't interrupt spell casts when you are rooted.

 

You guys seem to be ignoreing the current meta game right now. Most sorcs are now lightning and more snipers are coming out of the wood work.

 

Your server must really be bad if you have never seen a sent/scoundrel instagib people. Its not a matter of me being bad, its a matter of me dying before I can even blink.

 

There's no way a a sentinel and a scoundrel are killing someone in two globals. Sentinel doesn't have the point generation nor the burst set up for it in any spec and a scoundrel def isn't doing 80% of a persons life that quickly.

[Xerain]

And what changed? No offensive abilities were added to Sentinels post ~September. 5 Abilities were added on December 1st, the last pre-launch build: Trasncendence, Zen, Inspiration (the 3 centering options), Rebuke, and GBTF. For overall combat effectiveness, only Rebuke and GBTF are major players. You just admitted without them, we were "really underpowered". Now you're arguing to take them away? Wonder what the result of that would be...

 

It was long before that that all those abilities were added in and i believe GBTF/UD was in before the rest of them by quite some time because i remember using it before i had rebuke/cloak of pain.

[Apocalypse-]

It was long before that that all those abilities were added in and i believe GBTF/UD was in before the rest of them by quite some time because i remember using it before i had rebuke/cloak of pain.

 

Actually it wasn't, I remember because I had just written up a long writeup just a short while before. We lost Saber Throw and gained Centering, Rebuke, and GBTF on the final beta build.

[Kayse]

tell that to sage/sorcs

 

I do ^___^

[Xerain]

Actually it wasn't, I remember because I had just written up a long writeup just a short while before. We lost Saber Throw and gained Centering, Rebuke, and GBTF on the final beta build.

 

I still want saber throw back. and it was far before december 1st that all that stuff was put in.

[Apocalypse-]

I still want saber throw back. and it was far before december 1st that all that stuff was put in.

 

Just went back and looked, it was the build prior to the final beta build, but it was all at once.

[Xerain]

Just went back and looked, it was the build prior to the final beta build, but it was all at once.

 

Ah. I just remember using it in beta and being like holy crap that ability is awesome.

[MorgonKara]

I think Sentinels are overrated right now on the forums TBH. They are really strong in 1 vs 1 fights but pretty average in group pvp. They drop when focused just like any other class. Tank classes can counter them. Medium armor class so 5 stacks of sunder pretty much negates their armor completely & their only real utility is DPS which can be shut down by taunting them. No where near as OP as Operatives used to be with their stealth perma-stun 3 hit kills and vanish. Edited April 29, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Guioki]

I play a Sorc and a Powertech~ and I've been through the same thing your going though now, which was people believing a class was OP because we scaled well early game, as in we weren't gear dependent at all (sorc).

 

Both classes who deal on par damage with the other dps classes, but heres the thing...

 

Sorc has a bubble that scales terribly (taking crits etc into account), powertech (dps) has a 20% damage bubble reduction for like 12 secs.

 

Mara however gets 20% damage reduction for 6-30 seconds, 50% weapon defense and 25% force/tech defense for 12(?) seconds, force camo with damage reduction on it and GBTF which is for some reason the only thing everyone is claiming is OP.

 

All of your defenses scale well with the new improved damage increases across the board, which is why your class has become far stronger.

 

Now all the people defending maras are saying if you do everything perfect then you can counter us, which is true... but at the same time if YOU were doing everything perfect on your mara you would be UN-counterable.

[Derian]

I play a Sorc and a Powertech~ and I've been through the same thing your going though now, which was people believing a class was OP because we scaled well early game, as in we weren't gear dependent at all (sorc).

 

Both classes who deal on par damage with the other dps classes, but heres the thing...

 

Sorc has a bubble that scales terribly (taking crits etc into account), powertech (dps) has a 20% damage bubble reduction for like 12 secs.

 

Mara however gets 20% damage reduction for 6-30 seconds, 50% weapon defense and 25% force/tech defense for 12(?) seconds, force camo with damage reduction on it and GBTF which is for some reason the only thing everyone is claiming is OP.

 

All of your defenses scale well with the new improved damage increases across the board, which is why your class has become far stronger.

 

Now all the people defending maras are saying if you do everything perfect then you can counter us, which is true... but at the same time if YOU were doing everything perfect on your mara you would be UN-counterable.

 

The 25% is damage reduction, there is no force/tech defense

[Guioki]

The 25% is damage reduction, there is no force/tech defense

 

Even better, guaranteed damage reduction vs possible damage reduction.

[Derian]

Even better, guaranteed damage reduction vs possible damage reduction.

 

It is. However, we don't have taunt/AOE taunt which lowers multiple enemies damage by 20 (or is it 30?) percent either. We have skills that lower damage done to us. A PT has Skills that lower the damage of multiple attackers.

 

Which one is OP? Dunno which is more useful in a WZ?

Edited April 29, 2012 by Derian

[Xerain]

I play a Sorc and a Powertech~ and I've been through the same thing your going though now, which was people believing a class was OP because we scaled well early game, as in we weren't gear dependent at all (sorc).

 

Both classes who deal on par damage with the other dps classes, but heres the thing...

 

Sorc has a bubble that scales terribly (taking crits etc into account), powertech (dps) has a 20% damage bubble reduction for like 12 secs.

 

Mara however gets 20% damage reduction for 6-30 seconds, 50% weapon defense and 25% force/tech defense for 12(?) seconds, force camo with damage reduction on it and GBTF which is for some reason the only thing everyone is claiming is OP.

 

All of your defenses scale well with the new improved damage increases across the board, which is why your class has become far stronger.

 

Now all the people defending maras are saying if you do everything perfect then you can counter us, which is true... but at the same time if YOU were doing everything perfect on your mara you would be UN-counterable.

 

Someone earlier in the thread said that the sorc bubble blocks 4K damage. That's about 25% of your life and sorcs usually cast it on themselves a few times a fight, atleast two. So getting the bubble off twice is 50% or around 8k damage which is a lot. Add in the fact they can pop medacks and maybe heals (i see a ton using innervate now so it's a high probability) and we have to do enough damage to kill them up to maybe 2x which is a bit ridiculous but hey it's how it goes.

[doctorfirepants]

I play a Sorc and a Powertech~ and I've been through the same thing your going though now, which was people believing a class was OP because we scaled well early game, as in we weren't gear dependent at all (sorc).

 

Both classes who deal on par damage with the other dps classes, but heres the thing...

 

Sorc has a bubble that scales terribly (taking crits etc into account), powertech (dps) has a 20% damage bubble reduction for like 12 secs.

 

Mara however gets 20% damage reduction for 6-30 seconds, 50% weapon defense and 25% force/tech defense for 12(?) seconds, force camo with damage reduction on it and GBTF which is for some reason the only thing everyone is claiming is OP.

 

All of your defenses scale well with the new improved damage increases across the board, which is why your class has become far stronger.

 

Now all the people defending maras are saying if you do everything perfect then you can counter us, which is true... but at the same time if YOU were doing everything perfect on your mara you would be UN-counterable.

 

I don't see how we would be uncounterable if we played perfectly....the whole point of our defensive CD's is that everything we do is counterable. Our only real ability that places our opponent inoperable is force choke, which does minimal damage and roots us in place as well. Any other time our opponent will have control of there character. Even if a carnage marauder specs ravage so that it roots the person in place, you still have the ability to fight back or CC. A sorc playing there character perfectly would be uncounterable by a marauder because they would always be out of range of the marauders attack, but we will always be in the others persons range no matter what. So yea, your argument is pretty pointless.

[Guioki]

It is. However, we don't have taunt/AOE taunt which lowers multiple enemies damage by 20 (or is it 30?) percent either. We have skills that lower damage done to us. A PT has Skills that lower the damage of multiple attackers.

 

Which one is OP? Dunno which is more useful in a WZ?

 

If were looking at a group environment you should be killing a DPS ptech first anyway, they have no escape and are almost as fragile as a sorc. Taunt does nothing if your using it on the person who cast it.

 

I'm very liberal with my taunts, I cast them almost whenever they are available and at the end of a warzone I might end up with 20k protection points (at most). The maras ability to reduce healing received by enemies by 20% is far more useful in a group environment.

 

Hell on my sorc I stick a dot on any powertechs around so if they do hit me with an aoe taunt it does nothing.

 

Basically it comes down to this: To counter a Mara you have to know which spec your fighting to pick which abilities to CC or try avoid. People used to say it was the hardest class to play, but in all honesty you have to know more about the class then the person playing it to be able to counter it.

[Derian]

If were looking at a group environment you should be killing a DPS ptech first anyway, they have no escape and are almost as fragile as a sorc. Taunt does nothing if your using it on the person who cast it.

 

I'm very liberal with my taunts, I cast them almost whenever they are available and at the end of a warzone I might end up with 20k protection points (at most). The maras ability to reduce healing received by enemies by 20% is far more useful in a group environment.

 

Hell on my sorc I stick a dot on any powertechs around so if they do hit me with an aoe taunt it does nothing.

 

Basically it comes down to this: To counter a Mara you have to know which spec your fighting to pick which abilities to CC or try avoid. People used to say it was the hardest class to play, but in all honesty you have to know more about the class then the person playing it to be able to counter it.

 

No, you should be killing the healer first. Just because an ability may be useless doesn't mean that it is. Rebuke is useless if nobody attacks us. You still have these very powerful abilities. Don't call a Sentinel's abilities OP, when you have the ability to lower the damage of multiple attackers drastically when you are DPS, and you can off tank as well.

 

"The maras ability to reduce healing received by enemies by 20% is far more useful in a group environment." No, it isn't more useful than taunt. It has a 15 second CD, you can theoretically lower the damage of 8 attackers by 30%.

 

"Basically it comes down to this: To counter a Mara you have to know which spec your fighting to pick which abilities to CC or try avoid. People used to say it was the hardest class to play, but in all honesty you have to know more about the class then the person playing it to be able to counter it"

 

That's incredibly obvious by looking at their buff bar. You don't have to know more than the person playing it. I just force stasis any marauder that is near death. They do the same to me, It's very easy to counter GBTF. The lack of people complaining about Force Fade, yet acting like GBTF is the end of the world, is a testament to the lack of understanding the PVP community has.

 

I have a Vanguard. 20k from straight taunts is great, when you consider who those taunts are used against. Don't pretend like Taunt is useless. Guard/Taunt/AOE taunt are VERY potent abilities. Only bads underestimate this.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Derian

[Crawelc]

Guioki, grats to you for saying plainly the problem people are having with sent/mara, and not crying about some imaginary 31/31/31 spec. The Sent that put 2 roots on you in a wz is not the same one doting you or doing massive sweeps.

[Guioki]

Someone earlier in the thread said that the sorc bubble blocks 4K damage. That's about 25% of your life and sorcs usually cast it on themselves a few times a fight, atleast two. So getting the bubble off twice is 50% or around 8k damage which is a lot. Add in the fact they can pop medacks and maybe heals (i see a ton using innervate now so it's a high probability) and we have to do enough damage to kill them up to maybe 2x which is a bit ridiculous but hey it's how it goes.

 

Someone earlier in this thread lied? Innervate is not in a dps tree? Maras can use medpacks too and they heal more effective health due to maras having more DR (from abilities and armor)? 20% of 16k = 3200, so with current TTK one single ability of yours is as good as every defensive cooldown a sorc has? You get that 3200, plus your 50% weapon 25% force/tech so theres your double bubble countered, then you have GBTF and Force cammo?

 

People claim maras are a 1v1 class, but 1v1 a sorc stands more chance then he would in a group enviroment, flat damage protection (sorc bubble) scales worse with more enemies then a damage reduction % would. Maras are the ultimate team DPS.

[Guioki]

"No, you should be killing the healer first. Just because an ability may be useless doesn't mean that it is. Rebuke is useless if nobody attacks us. You still have these very powerful abilities. Don't call a Sentinel's abilities OP, when you have the ability to lower the damage of multiple attackers drastically when you are DPS, and you can off tank as well. "

 

I should be killing a healer with the current TTK? There is a reason why people can just ignore a healer and focus fire a squishy dps since 1.2. Stun a healer for 4 seconds or throw an interrupt and burst everyone down. You need to adapt to 1.2, maybe that is why you think maras aren't currently the most powerful class (or maras+tanksins cause they are redic too).

 

Rebuke is useless if you cast it any nobody attacks you, at the same time if nobody has attacked you... why would you complain? I thought every ability your class used had to be countered or you would be guaranteed a win?

 

I'm sorry are you comparing a DPS mara to a TANK ptech? Because to off tank I would have to go to tank stance and reduce my dps/heat reduction by pretty much half (sexy change they made in 1.2)

Saying aoe taunt is worse then 20% reduced healing because reduced healing has a 15 second cooldown? Ok... I'll spam my aoe taunt that magically lost its cooldown in 1.2...

 

Seriously I don't think you know enough about other classes to argue that yours isn't OP.

[Thundartwothree]

Someone earlier in this thread lied? Innervate is not in a dps tree? Maras can use medpacks too and they heal more effective health due to maras having more DR (from abilities and armor)? 20% of 16k = 3200, so with current TTK one single ability of yours is as good as every defensive cooldown a sorc has? You get that 3200, plus your 50% weapon 25% force/tech so theres your double bubble countered, then you have GBTF and Force cammo?

 

People claim maras are a 1v1 class, but 1v1 a sorc stands more chance then he would in a group enviroment, flat damage protection (sorc bubble) scales worse with more enemies then a damage reduction % would. Maras are the ultimate team DPS.

 

I agree with some of what you're saying here, but I would like to point out that bubble is indeed castable on others, and while it may not equal the total damage reduction of Rebuke and Sabre Ward over the corse of a fight for the Sorc/Sage alone, the ability to use it on others should not be ignored in the least.

[Xerain]

Someone earlier in this thread lied? Innervate is not in a dps tree? Maras can use medpacks too and they heal more effective health due to maras having more DR (from abilities and armor)? 20% of 16k = 3200, so with current TTK one single ability of yours is as good as every defensive cooldown a sorc has? You get that 3200, plus your 50% weapon 25% force/tech so theres your double bubble countered, then you have GBTF and Force cammo?

 

People claim maras are a 1v1 class, but 1v1 a sorc stands more chance then he would in a group enviroment, flat damage protection (sorc bubble) scales worse with more enemies then a damage reduction % would. Maras are the ultimate team DPS.

 

I never said innervate is in the dps tree. i said i see a lot of sorcs running around with a hybrid healing/lightning spec. Every single one of my abilities does not hit for 3200, one does and it's on a 10.5 second cool down (7 seconds at lowest and that's if i can keep the annihilate buff up).

 

And Sorcs are the ultimate team utility. MORE bubble blinds please i love those things and hate them.