To the biased Sents/Maras defending their OP class

[Vudu]

the bubble can be put up like what 3 times in a fight if you get lucky? I don't know how many times i've ran up to a sorc/sage hit them twice, got knocked back, used my leap to get back on them for the bubble to pop and then they reapplied it right away. Boom right there they get to absorb 8k damage? That's 50% of the average players health, quite a bit. If they're lucky and can kite around a bit and draw out the fight oh hey they can pop on another bubble. Sure mara/sent can pop UD at low hop and block some damage but is it going to be 50% of our health worth of it over the course of a fight? probably not.

 

Probably not. Personally, I'd rather have bubble (if it's used right). I love it when a sage sees fit to bubble one of my toons 8)-

[Xerain]

Probably not. Personally, I'd rather have bubble (if it's used right). I love it when a sage sees fit to bubble one of my toons 8)-

 

IMO need more sorcs and sages with the bubble pop blind, thing is amazing both ways.

[Vudu]

You know the only thing that really bothers me about sentinels and marauders? Seeing so many of them in war zones since 1.2. I mean, they're good, but they're not THAT good.

[Xerain]

You know the only thing that really bothers me about sentinels and marauders? Seeing so many of them in war zones since 1.2. I mean, they're good, but they're not THAT good.

 

yes, specially not to stack. I'd rather have 4 sorc/sages in my warzones again instead of all these mara/sents.

[Zaboolina]

yyaaawwnnn...another whining post from some1 who just got his a-ss handed to him by a mara. Will this ever stop ?

[Schwarzwald]

remove sent/marauder dmg reduction abilities

 

make their escapes slightly better.

 

 

Give their dmg reduction abilities to juggernaughts and buff enraged defense.

 

There the game is balanced

 

 

The problem with mara/sent atm is that they have the best of both world when it comes to defensive CD's. They have really good escapes and damage avoidance and they also have very good tanky/dmg reduction abilities. Its just waaay too much. They live longer under focus then a majority of the tank classes. Immo jugs cannot even compare to survivability while focused.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Xerain]

remove sent/marauder dmg reduction abilities

 

make their escapes slightly better.

 

 

Give their dmg reduction abilities to juggernaughts and buff enraged defense.

 

There the game is balanced

 

 

The problem with mara/sent atm is that they have the best of both world when it comes to defensive CD's. They have really good escapes and damage avoidance and they also have very good tanky/dmg reduction abilities. Its just waaay too much. They live longer under focus then a majority of the tank classes. Immo jugs cannot even compare to survivability while focused.

 

BS they can too. I have one in my guild that is immortal and when he runs the ball in huttball he's just like i got this from the second he's grabbed the ball till the end zone. I can't do that unless i get extremely lucky

[Schwarzwald]

BS they can too. I have one in my guild that is immortal and when he runs the ball in huttball he's just like i got this from the second he's grabbed the ball till the end zone. I can't do that unless i get extremely lucky

 

The problem is you cannot charge or intercede while rooted. So technically, its not an escape.

 

Its a mobility ability. It can be used like an escape if utilized properly ahead of time.

 

The problem with marauders is they have too many 'oh ****, i'm in over my head' cards. Jug abilities work amazing if they are used preemptively before you are in over your head. Marauders can ignore alot of that planning and just dive in head first and live longer under focus then a juggernaut can.

 

I mean, I can grab a huttball from center and score within 10-15 seconds if people are set up in the right spots and I can get my interecede and double charge. Yeah, we have more mobility then Marauders, but we don't have more ESCAPES.

 

They have a 45 second vanish that they can use to get out of roots and other slowing effects. We don't.

 

If you want to talk about huttball running, we can talk about huttball running. But I am specifically talking about their ability to survive focused DPS much longer then immortal jugs can (if the marauder is smart enough, and there are alot of pants on head retarded marauders out there), and their escapes feed into their ability to live so long. If you are focused and rooted, then you can't charge away. But marauders can, like if you are trying to defend a capture point on alderaan, and you get rooted and someone is on the opposite side of the node capping, you cannot get to them most of the time. But a Marauder can just vanish out of the root and stop the cap.

 

Invincible is a great skill that Jugs have. But its a 3 minute CD. All the Marauder CD's are so freaking short, it is nuts.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Apocalypse-]

The problem is you cannot charge or intercede while rooted. So technically, its not an escape.

 

Its a mobility ability. It can be used like an escape if utilized properly ahead of time.

 

The problem with marauders is they have too many 'oh ****, i'm in over my head' cards. Jug abilities work amazing if they are used preemptively before you are in over your head. Marauders can ignore alot of that planning and just dive in head first and live longer under focus then a juggernaut can.

 

I mean, I can grab a huttball from center and score within 10-15 seconds if people are set up in the right spots and I can get my interecede and double charge. Yeah, we have more mobility then Marauders, but we don't have more ESCAPES.

 

They have a 45 second vanish that they can use to get out of roots and other slowing effects. We don't.

....

Ima let you finish, but everybody knows that in order to get that root removal on camo you have to give up the dot healing and the 0-range leap.

 

Game's not balanced around 31/31/31 builds, so let's not pretend it is.

[Kayse]

Love posts like this. We have 4 defensive cooldowns, all of which are so easily countered by anyone with half a brain... Pop our 99% immunity? It's called CC..Cloak of pain? Don't hit for 6 seconds and just snare them. Saber ward? Use tech/force..Obsecure, notmuch you can do about it but be blind or spam force/tech attacks. Without our defensive cooldowns the class would die far too fast to even do dps. Regardless if we gt focused or cc'ed it doesnt matter how many CD's we have, we will die. Undying rage is no different, it's called knowing your enemies skillls and knowing how to counter them. Tired of seeing all the baddies qqing at those who know how to play their class..This is almost as bad as the "make tracer missile have a 15 sec cooldown" thread.. Edited April 28, 2012 by Kayse

[Schwarzwald]

Love posts like this. We have 4 defensive cooldowns, all of which are so easily countered by anyone with half a brain... Pop our 99% immunity? It's called CC..Cloak of pain? Don't hit for 6 seconds and just snare them. Saber ward? Use tech/force..Obsecure, notmuch you can do about it but be blind or spam force/tech attacks. Without our defensive cooldowns the class would die far too fast to even do dps. Regardless if we gt focused or cc'ed it doesnt matter how many CD's we have, we will die. Undying rage is no different, it's called knowing your enemies skillls and knowing how to counter them. Tired of seeing all the baddies qqing at those who know how to play their class..This is almost as bad as the "make tracer missile have a 15 sec cooldown" thread..

 

Juggernauts get saber ward, which you have, and invicible which is on a 3 minute CD. Enraged defense is so useless its effect is negligible in pvp.

 

Your class without your CD's would live about just as long as a juggernaut. The problem is the nature of your abilities. I would be all for buffing your mobility, evasion and escape like abilities if you had your damage reduction removed.

 

A good marauder when using all their CD's can outlive a juggernaut of equal skill when under the same amount of focus fire. I'm not saying to nerf your class into the ground. I'm saying that tank classes should have more survivability then one of the highest burst classes in the game. doing 5k annihilation crits and then going into god mode live forever is just too much.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Apocalypse-]

.... one of the highest burst classes in the game. ...

Ima let you finish, but everybody knows that a 5 GCD buildup isn't the making of a burst class in a game with a <10 GCD TTK.

 

Also, if you've got annihilation, you don't get roots broken on camo. You're arguing against the 31/31/31 build.

[DeimosAmon]

The only change I'd make to Undying Rage is altering the skill to require less health taken but increase the damage taken to say 10%; it'd still be a huge factor in a 1v1 but it'd stop it from being a free 6s of ball carrying in Huttball or door prevention in Voidstar even with 7 people beating on the player. The skill scales too well, especially for a DPS class. It should buy a Marauder time but not prevent death when vastly outnumbered. Only other thing I'd say is it'd be better in the 2m-3m CD range than in the 45s-1m30s range it currently occupies.

 

Not sure why the majority of focus is on that skill though honestly. Undying Rage is not only obvious but there's an obvious counter which is anything to buy time like stuns. It's the other CDs which all piled together make for a nearly impervious 1v1 class (Assassins excepted). Saber Ward, Cloak of Pain, Obfuscate, and Bloodthirst/Frenzy/Berserk, in conjunction with consumables, basically makes the class a brick wall propelled at high velocity. It's easy to say stun a Marauder/Sentinel through Undying Rage, but a lot harder to try and go four GCDs without them being touched to let Cloak of Pain lapse (excepting classes with potent root capabilities like Snipers). In theory they could keep the 20% dmg reduction up 100% of the time using Retaliation, though that's not necessarily cost effective.

Edited April 28, 2012 by DeimosAmon

[unixbomber]

This is almost as bad as the "make tracer missile have a 15 sec cooldown" thread..

 

lol..

[Lt_Latency]

The only change I'd make to Undying Rage is altering the skill to require less health taken but increase the damage taken to say 10%; it'd still be a huge factor in a 1v1 but it'd stop it from being a free 6s of ball carrying in Huttball or door prevention in Voidstar even with 7 people beating on the player. The skill scales too well, especially for a DPS class. It should buy a Marauder time but not prevent death when vastly outnumbered. Only other thing I'd say is it'd be better in the 2m-3m CD range than in the 45s-1m30s range it currently occupies.

 

Not sure why the majority of focus is on that skill though honestly. Undying Rage is not only obvious but there's an obvious counter which is anything to buy time like stuns. It's the other CDs which all piled together make for a nearly impervious 1v1 class (Assassins excepted). Saber Ward, Cloak of Pain, Obfuscate, and Bloodthirst/Frenzy/Berserk, in conjunction with consumables, basically makes the class a brick wall propelled at high velocity. It's easy to say stun a Marauder/Sentinel through Undying Rage, but a lot harder to try and go four GCDs without them being touched to let Cloak of Pain lapse (excepting classes with potent root capabilities like Snipers). In theory they could keep the 20% dmg reduction up 100% of the time using Retaliation, though that's not necessarily cost effective.

 

 

Yeah i could see this. So if 8 people are fighting you they still kill you. But it still works againsts 2 or 3 pretty good

[Xerain]

The problem is you cannot charge or intercede while rooted. So technically, its not an escape.

 

Its a mobility ability. It can be used like an escape if utilized properly ahead of time.

 

Well marauders have one leap we can't use while rooted. Not sure what this had to do with anything, overall you still have more mobility.

 

The problem with marauders is they have too many 'oh ****, i'm in over my head' cards. Jug abilities work amazing if they are used preemptively before you are in over your head. Marauders can ignore alot of that planning and just dive in head first and live longer under focus then a juggernaut can.

 

I've got one "oh ****! i'm in over my head" card, it's called force camo. No we can't just dive in head first we're far too squishy. If i get in over my head i just camo out and run away. against multiple opponents i'm dead before i get to pop my UD and even if i do get to, oh i survive 5 seconds longer.

 

I mean, I can grab a huttball from center and score within 10-15 seconds if people are set up in the right spots and I can get my interecede and double charge. Yeah, we have more mobility then Marauders, but we don't have more ESCAPES.

 

You have can use leap and intercede as escapes, i use my leap to get out of places quite often.

 

They have a 45 second vanish that they can use to get out of roots and other slowing effects. We don't.

 

No we have a 45 second vanish. It's a high tier talent in the carnage tree that gets us out of roots and slowing effects, so it's only some marauders.

 

If you want to talk about huttball running, we can talk about huttball running. But I am specifically talking about their ability to survive focused DPS much longer then immortal jugs can (if the marauder is smart enough, and there are alot of pants on head retarded marauders out there), and their escapes feed into their ability to live so long. If you are focused and rooted, then you can't charge away. But marauders can, like if you are trying to defend a capture point on alderaan, and you get rooted and someone is on the opposite side of the node capping, you cannot get to them most of the time. But a Marauder can just vanish out of the root and stop the cap.

 

Invincible is a great skill that Jugs have. But its a 3 minute CD. All the Marauder CD's are so freaking short, it is nuts.

 

The huttball running was an example, you don't get to score everytime you get the ball in 10-15 seconds. i've watched immortal juggs walk the ball with multiple people on him the whole time.

 

All marauders can not vanish and remove all movement impairing effects on them.

 

I have 1 on a minute cd that lasts up to 30 seconds that gives me heavy armor. You're running around in heavy armor ALL THE TIME. Another one is only good if i get low HP and if i don't have a healer around, well i'm dead, might get to take one person with me because i was on them the whole time anyways, but i'm dead. And Camo is best use for when getting focus fired, you can always intercede away to a friendly target and a lot of the people FF'ing you will just switch targets because you're simply too far away now.

[Xerain]

Juggernauts get saber ward, which you have, and invicible which is on a 3 minute CD. Enraged defense is so useless its effect is negligible in pvp.

 

Your class without your CD's would live about just as long as a juggernaut. The problem is the nature of your abilities. I would be all for buffing your mobility, evasion and escape like abilities if you had your damage reduction removed.

 

A good marauder when using all their CD's can outlive a juggernaut of equal skill when under the same amount of focus fire. I'm not saying to nerf your class into the ground. I'm saying that tank classes should have more survivability then one of the highest burst classes in the game. doing 5k annihilation crits and then going into god mode live forever is just too much.

 

 

What about endure pain? And damage being healed is damage being healed, why do you think so many marauders are annihilation with heals on bleed crits? It's a whole 2% which isn't much at all but it helps.

 

No we wouldn't, go ask a marauder to duel you without use ANY defensive CD's. Straight up NONE. See how squishy he is.

 

Tank classes in this game are fine and they have a ton of survivability. 5k annihilation crits rarely happen i have to pop EVERYTHING and get lucky, trinket, expertise adrenal is a must because the power adrenal doesn't do it, and bloodthirst. I have screens of every 5k crit i've done with annihilation since i've hit 50 on december 27th... there's under 10 of them .

[TheEvilEeyore]

I guess i will just leave this here.... Red boxes = instant cast spells Blue box=final ravage strike. before you say, "oh just walk away from that.." Ravage has an unholy strike range you can cure the root and start terminator walking away from the slows that gauridans/sents put out and he will still hit you with the final strike because the range mechanic is *********** broken. Anyways here is a great screencap.

 

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn45/kissminc/aaa.png

[TheEvilEeyore]

What about endure pain? And damage being healed is damage being healed, why do you think so many marauders are annihilation with heals on bleed crits? It's a whole 2% which isn't much at all but it helps.

 

No we wouldn't, go ask a marauder to duel you without use ANY defensive CD's. Straight up NONE. See how squishy he is.

 

Tank classes in this game are fine and they have a ton of survivability. 5k annihilation crits rarely happen i have to pop EVERYTHING and get lucky, trinket, expertise adrenal is a must because the power adrenal doesn't do it, and bloodthirst. I have screens of every 5k crit i've done with annihilation since i've hit 50 on december 27th... there's under 10 of them .

 

i am really sorry that you have to get 'lucky' to get a 5k crit.... are you really defending this class. no other calss in game can come close to your survivability, mobility, and damage output combinations. there is a reason we call our guardians jesus sabers in pvp.

 

also i have pulled apart my damage logs every night for the last 3 weeks. i can say that i take at least 5-10 5k crits every night.. so saying they are rare is ********. i have taken 6k crits and i have 1100 expertise. stop trying to defend your broken class.

Edited April 28, 2012 by TheEvilEeyore

[Serrowherrow]

also i have pulled apart my damage logs every night for the last 3 weeks. i can say that i take at least 5-10 5k crits every night.. so saying they are rare is ********. i have taken 6k crits and i have 1100 expertise. stop trying to defend your broken class.

 

Post em.

[Smuglebunny]

The fact that you can just stun anyone using GBTF or UR negates any argument against it.

 

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS STUN THEM!!!

 

If this ability has such an EASY and OBVIOUS counter, how can it be OP and not a L2P issue?

 

It is a L2P issue.

 

ATTENTION ATTENTION Public Service Announcement

 

WHEN A SENT/MARA USES GBTF/UR.....(giving up half their life to do so)

 

STUN THEM, Knock them back, run etc.

[Kayse]

Post em.

 

Right after i get done with an alderan i see this.. Just hit 6.4k on a jugg with Master Strike + Precision strike + Rakata power stim + BM + relic in full augment.

 

If anything 5k is low for me to crit on when i want :s dont even pop inspiration most the time.

 

Some proof if you can call it any..Click the R60's in my siggy.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Kayse

[Xerain]

i am really sorry that you have to get 'lucky' to get a 5k crit.... are you really defending this class. no other calss in game can come close to your survivability, mobility, and damage output combinations. there is a reason we call our guardians jesus sabers in pvp.

 

also i have pulled apart my damage logs every night for the last 3 weeks. i can say that i take at least 5-10 5k crits every night.. so saying they are rare is ********. i have taken 6k crits and i have 1100 expertise. stop trying to defend your broken class.

 

I said with annihilate. I'm sorry your reading comprehension is bad. What mobility?!?! We have 1, ONE, gap closer. I'm glad you check out your logs that much but i'm pretty sure it's no only marauders hitting you for 5-6k each time so YAWN. Get a better argument then boo hoo marauders can survive so well because you run around your warzones and play them all as team death match.

[TheEvilEeyore]

Post em.

 

i will .. i have posted in several other parts of this forum with individual fights.

not whole warzoens but single encoutners vs guardians. where there are 2 5k crits.

[Xerain]

Right after i get done with an alderan i see this.. Just hit 6.4k on a jugg with Master Strike + Precision strike + Rakata power stim + BM + relic in full augment.

 

If anything 5k is low for me to crit on when i want :s dont even pop inspiration most the time.

 

Some proof if you can call it any..Click the R60's in my siggy.

 

what are those proof of?