The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[Esoda]

Every company in existence asks people why they are leaving. I just dropped t-mobile for verizon and they sent me the same kind of survey. Obviously t-mobile is in serious trouble.

 

Very true, I won't argue that. However, most companies as large as EA have a means to conduct this internally. Having contract a company to handle this for them isn't standard protocol. To me that says they are seeing cancellations in large numbers, not just a 'trickle.'

[thomasgallant]

Very true, I won't argue that. However, most companies as large as EA have a means to conduct this internally. Having contract a company to handle this for them isn't standard protocol. To me that says they are seeing cancellations in large numbers, not just a 'trickle.'

 

sadly you are speculating there.. it could also be a testiment to americas love of outsourcing small jobs to outside companies...

 

alot of companies let specialized companies handle CS requests.. its often i call a company in canada here and get another company who handles customer service, its annoying, but very common.

[Leggomy]

Very true, I won't argue that. However, most companies as large as EA have a means to conduct this internally. Having contract a company to handle this for them isn't standard protocol. To me that says they are seeing cancellations in large numbers, not just a 'trickle.'

 

Sorry but outsourcing is something EA is famous for. You are assuming quite a bit from that little survey.

[Shingara]

Very true, I won't argue that. However, most companies as large as EA have a means to conduct this internally. Having contract a company to handle this for them isn't standard protocol. To me that says they are seeing cancellations in large numbers, not just a 'trickle.'

Just so happens its the same company that does all surveys for EA but you probably think EA only have one game

 

And your previous statement just makes me laugh, i do have to ask are you the moral compass of the gaming world ? are you somehow attuned to a hive mind for every gamer ? or are you just a disgruntled no one who wants to bleat a little more on the forums before they go.

 

Cos it only seems it was dropping like a rock once YOU cancled in your eyes. Cos it aint dropping like a rock, your just trying to justify it with the world why the game isnt for you and thus in your eyes it MUST be a problem for everyone else.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Shingara

[Leggomy]

Again "I" don't, I have next to no interesting in PvE raiding (been there done that in EQ1 over a decade ago, it was boring then and it's still boring now).

 

That doesn't mean I don't see the serious limitations that do exist though, just because I've recognised them and taken steps to avoid them.

 

They still exist and still are making many people quit, and they still should have been thought about long, long before now.

 

 

If they'd had a properly developed and functional RvR zone things would have been better.

If they'd had more depth to the space side (not necessarily JTL or anything though) things would have been better.

If they'd developed trade-skills and added fun skills thing would have been better.

 

But as things stood you got to L50 and suddenly your world was basically dailys and instanced PvP, that was never going to hold people...... it didn't in WoW for a start (that was when they started to lose long-term players).

 

There is no RvR in this game. I dont mind trade skills either. As far as space having more "depth" that could possibly come down the road but I didnt expect it from them. They said over and over there would be no real space combat etc except the arcade thing we have now at launch. Probably will come in an expansion later.

[stonelead]

I am a fan boy........but I just un-subbed (10 mins ago)... that said i have 107 days of my sub left... so i will still be around for 3 months.....

 

But I did just play GW2 beta....and It is EPIC... and also it has what i want world v world.... but not only that but World v world v world....

 

There is no Sub for GW2... and they ask... why should you pay for updates and patches that should be for free!

and i totally agree.

 

but the main reason... is i am bored with the game... and the PVP, I liked Ilum and just cruised around there

 

 

anyways thats my 2 cents

[Goretzu]

There is no RvR in this game.

 

They launched with the promise of an RvR basin in Ilum.

 

It was incredibly badly designed and the engine couldn't handle big battles, but it was there.

 

It was removed (effectively) with 1.2, but it was there..... or was supposed to be.

 

 

I dont mind trade skills either. As far as space having more "depth" that could possibly come down the road but I didnt expect it from them. They said over and over there would be no real space combat etc except the arcade thing we have now at launch. Probably will come in an expansion later.

 

That's my point though, everything can come at a later expansion, but many things should have been thought about for release.

 

(you can't fault Biowares development since release [well ignoring Ilum anyway], they've been very fast, but they are unfortunately playing catch up effectively)

Edited May 1, 2012 by Goretzu

[Shingara]

They launched with the promise of an RvR basin in Ilum.

 

It was incredibly badly designed and the engine couldn't handle big battles, but it was there.

 

It was removed (effectively) with 1.2, but it was there..... or was supposed to be.

 

 

 

 

That's my point though, everything can come at a later expansion, but many things should have been thought about for release.

 

 

Actualy they launched with 2 rvr areas. one works, the other was exploited to death to the point where players refused to goto it. The other is still working perfectly fine

[Ancen]

They launched with the promise of an RvR basin in Ilum.

 

It was incredibly badly designed and the engine couldn't handle big battles, but it was there.

 

It was removed (effectively) with 1.2, but it was there..... or was supposed to be.

 

That's my point though, everything can come at a later expansion, but many things should have been thought about for release.

 

Yep... I'm looking forward to a revamped Ilum and hopefully some RVR-style zones in the future.

 

Actualy they launched with 2 rvr areas. one works, the other was exploited to death to the point where players refused to goto it. The other is still working perfectly fine

 

Outlaw's Den is the FFA PVP & Guild vs. Guild area, it's not rvr.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Ancen

[Goretzu]

Actualy they launched with 2 rvr areas. one works, the other was exploited to death to the point where players refused to goto it. The other is still working perfectly fine

 

The GvG area?

[Shingara]

The GvG area?

 

If you mean the den then yes, free for all pvp kicks the shnell out of faction v faction cos its its alot harder to exploit as shown.

 

Outlaw's Den is the FFA PVP & Guild vs. Guild area, it's not rvr.

 

And whats this, you want open world pvp which you are stating but not open world pvp..... ok

Edited May 1, 2012 by Shingara

[Goretzu]

If you mean the den then yes, free for all pvp kicks the shnell out of faction v faction cos its its alot harder to exploit as shown.

 

Yeah, that's NOT "RvR" though, Ilum was...... all be it the worst one I've ever seen (even LOTRO's one was infinitely better - in design, fun and performance), which is a bit of a mystery considering how long Bioware had run Warhammer Online for and the number of Mythic Devs they had/have.

 

 

 

Unfortunately it (the group vs group area) suffers from the same problem as factional based combat without motivating structure though, which is why it's mostly a ghost town on any server I've been in it on (now if there was a bounty system to give incentives to going there........ )

Edited May 1, 2012 by Goretzu

[Leggomy]

They launched with the promise of an RvR basin in Ilum.

 

It was incredibly badly designed and the engine couldn't handle big battles, but it was there.

 

It was removed (effectively) with 1.2, but it was there..... or was supposed to be.

 

 

 

 

That's my point though, everything can come at a later expansion, but many things should have been thought about for release.

 

(you can't fault Biowares development since release [well ignoring Ilum anyway], they've been very fast, but they are unfortunately playing catch up effectively)

 

We would still be waiting for it if that was the case. Id rather play it now as-is.

[Shingara]

Yeah, that's NOT "RvR" though, Ilum was...... all be it the worst one I've ever seen (even LOTRO's one was infinitely better - in design, fun and performance), which is a bit of a mystery considering how long Bioware had run Warhammer Online for and the number of Mythic Devs they had/have.

 

Unfortunately it suffers from the same problem as factional based combat without motivating structure though, which is why it's mostly a ghost town on any server I've been in it on (now if there was a bounty system to give incentives to going there........ )

 

So that would be a pvp realm your wanting then ?

 

But im more then happy for the fort system that was in warhammer, BUT they key is that illum was knacked due to people trading kills, faction inbalances and people spawn camping when there was a glitch that made people stay away from illum which in turn made the faction inbalances worse due the stronger side taking dominance and the only way to fix that is to zone it like a battleground.

 

And there is the key, which you hit the nail on the head, people want incentives to rvr even though they state they want rvr for rvr which is not the case.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Shingara

[Leggomy]

Yeah, that's NOT "RvR" though, Ilum was...... all be it the worst one I've ever seen (even LOTRO's one was infinitely better - in design, fun and performance), which is a bit of a mystery considering how long Bioware had run Warhammer Online for and the number of Mythic Devs they had/have.

 

 

 

Unfortunately it (the group vs group area) suffers from the same problem as factional based combat without motivating structure though, which is why it's mostly a ghost town on any server I've been in it on (now if there was a bounty system to give incentives to going there........ )

 

LOTRO has no RvR. All they have is one pvp area and if you play a creep you cannot leave that area.

[Goretzu]

And whats this, you want open world pvp which you are stating but not open world pvp..... ok

 

 

RvR isn't simply open world PvP, it is that, but with structure (and usually motivational rewards of some sort).

 

Open world PvP by itself rarely gains much popularity, because the naked truth of it is that it's usually just ganking and pretty boring.

 

 

 

The group vs group basin has potential in a different way (as a complement, not replacement to RvR), but again without structure and reason (such as a bounty system or whatever) it'll never be anything but a ghost town/basin.

[Leggomy]

So that would be a pvp realm your wanting then ?

 

But im more then happy for the fort system that was in warhammer, BUT they key is that illum was knacked due to people trading kills, faction inbalances and people spawn camping when there was a glitch that made people stay away from illum which in turn made the faction inbalances worse due the stronger side taking dominance and the only way to fix that is to zone it like a battleground.

 

This happens in every game they try to do pvp in. People cheat, hack and do whatever it takes to win. They screw up classes in pve for pvp in games all the time also. There is nothing can be done except ban em when they catch em.

[Shingara]

RvR isn't simply open world PvP, it is that, but with structure (and usually motivational rewards of some sort).

 

Open world PvP by itself rarely gains much popularity, because the naked truth of it is that it's usually just ganking and pretty boring.

 

 

 

The group vs group basin has potential in a different way (as a complement, not replacement to RvR), but again without structure and reason (such as a bounty system or whatever) it'll never be anything but a ghost town/basin.

 

So your not wanting rvr, your wanting an open world bg. there is a difference

[Esoda]

Just so happens its the same company that does all surveys for EA but you probably think EA only have one game

 

And your previous statement just makes me laugh, i do have to ask are you the moral compass of the gaming world ? are you somehow attuned to a hive mind for every gamer ? or are you just a disgruntled no one who wants to bleat a little more on the forums before they go.

 

Cos it only seems it was dropping like a rock once YOU cancled in your eyes. Cos it aint dropping like a rock, your just trying to justify it with the world why the game isnt for you and thus in your eyes it MUST be a problem for everyone else.

 

No, no moral compass here, but it doesn't take a genius to arrive at the conclusion 'the sky is falling' when there are 40 people in fleet at prime time on any given day, at least on my server. Bad press... Ever read anything other than these forums. Try some Nationally syndicated periodicals on gaming. SWTOR is getting far from stellar reviews. There is a reason for that. The only thing I have to justify is if SWTOR is worth paying the sub fee. At this time, NO. D3 comes out in 2 weeks and GW2 comes out soon after. I don't have the time to play SWTOR, D3, GW2 and Eve Online so why pay for it? SWTOR is vanilla. I'm going for some chocolate!!

Edited May 1, 2012 by Esoda

[Goretzu]

LOTRO has no RvR. All they have is one pvp area and if you play a creep you cannot leave that area.

 

It's RvR.

 

It's not called that because Mythic and now Bioware EA hold the trademark to calling something "RvR" (last game that claimed they had "RvR" got sued by Mythic), but an elephant is still an elephant no matter what you call it.

 

It has "factional structured PvP combat" - which IS "RvR".

[Goretzu]

So that would be a pvp realm your wanting then ?

 

But im more then happy for the fort system that was in warhammer, BUT they key is that illum was knacked due to people trading kills, faction inbalances and people spawn camping when there was a glitch that made people stay away from illum which in turn made the faction inbalances worse due the stronger side taking dominance and the only way to fix that is to zone it like a battleground.

 

And there is the key, which you hit the nail on the head, people want incentives to rvr even though they state they want rvr for rvr which is not the case.

 

 

 

Again no.

 

A PvP server isn't RvR, it's just a server where you're always PvP flagged (actually you aren't in SWTOR, but anyway).

 

Ilum had no real structure (random in line points and a quest is arguably the worst RvR basin ever designed) had bad geography and SWTOR engine couldn't handle even just 20 v 20.

 

Hopefully they'll bring something back to Ilum that is much better designed (I hope they redesign the basin entirely though [a small box is never going to be great]).

[Goretzu]

So your not wanting rvr, your wanting an open world bg. there is a difference

 

No, I want RvR.

[Shingara]

No, I want RvR.

 

Right lets nail this, do you want somewhere that is a faction v faction open lake or do you want somewhere that is faction v faction in a set map with objecticves to capture and points to hold on the map.

 

Cos the warhammer model works much better then any system i have ever seen.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Shingara

[Leggomy]

It's RvR.

 

It's not called that because Mythic and now Bioware EA hold the trademark to calling something "RvR" (last game that claimed they had "RvR" got sued by Mythic), but an elephant is still an elephant no matter what you call it.

 

It has "factional structured PvP combat" - which IS "RvR".

 

How is it RvR when one side is imprisoned in one area while the others are allowed full run of anywhere. I guess if you use that wide brush to describe it. I describe it as incredibly boring hehe. Ive played lotro every since the first closed beta. PvP is low on their list.

[Shingara]

No, no moral compass here, but it doesn't take a genius to arrive at the conclusion 'the sky is falling' when there are 40 people in fleet at prime time on any given day, at least on my server. Bad press... Ever read anything other than these forums. Try some Nationally syndicated periodicals on gaming. SWTOR is getting far from stellar reviews. There is a reason for that. The only thing I have to justify is if SWTOR is worth paying the sub fee. At this time, NO. D3 comes out in 2 weeks and GW2 comes out soon after. I don't have the time to play SWTOR, D3, GW2 and Eve Online so why pay for it? SWTOR is vanilla. I'm going for some chocolate!!

 

Ye so like i said, you dont like it anymore so your trying to justify it by saying the sky is falling, i half expect you to stand on a corner with a sign saying the end is nigh.