The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[Leggomy]

guys, *** does STO have to do with anything, the game was/is CRAP and it shouldnt be discussed.

 

star trek as a whole sucks, its boring and wannabe cerebral.

 

Sorry but the star trek movies and tv shows were way better than anything star wars. As far as the game you are correct heh.

[FSA_shadow]

Sorry but the star trek movies and tv shows were way better than anything star wars. As far as the game you are correct heh.

 

[Ensquire]

sorry but the star trek movies and tv shows were way better than anything star wars. As far as the game you are correct heh.

 

heretic... Blasphemy... Non-believer...

[Shingara]

guys, *** does STO have to do with anything, the game was/is CRAP and it shouldnt be discussed.

 

star trek as a whole sucks, its boring and wannabe cerebral.

Because we are on about staying on a forums after you have quit a game, and lifetime subs kicks the shnell out of ow no i have a 3 month sub and i have cancled and have one month left.

[river]

once you hit 50 the game becomes generic and eventhough its the starwars IP i dont see me resubbing, the end game is just too boring and redundant, i stopped playing wow for a reason. get some sandbox features, let us live on the planets open up the maps and expand crafting( star ships, swoops, droids (companions/pets/weapons/vendors?)) allow for player driven economy give us the resources to build communities . Edited May 1, 2012 by river

[Skoobie]

Sorry but the star trek movies and tv shows were way better than anything star wars. As far as the game you are correct heh.

 

Fellow Star Folks, cool it down.

 

This Star Wars vs Star Trek stuff needs to stop.

 

 

There's a common enemy now. And its really, really bad.

[JeramieCrowe]

Fellow Star Folks, cool it down.

 

This Star Wars vs Star Trek stuff needs to stop.

 

 

There's a common enemy now. And its really, really bad.

 

HAHAHAHAHA!!! That was the most EPIC thing I've seen in a LONG time!!

[Leggomy]

once you hit 50 the game becomes generic and eventhough its the starwars IP i dont see me resubbing, the end game is just too boring and redundant, i stopped playing wow for a reason. get some sandbox features, let us live on the planets open up the maps and expand crafting( star ships, swoops, droids (companions/pets/weapons/vendors?)) allow for player driven economy give us the resources to build communities .

 

This stuff all comes in time. To me it is unreasonable to expect stuff like this so soon.

[Kihopak]

once you hit 50 the game becomes generic and eventhough its the starwars IP i dont see me resubbing, the end game is just too boring and redundant, i stopped playing wow for a reason. get some sandbox features, let us live on the planets open up the maps and expand crafting( star ships, swoops, droids (companions/pets/weapons/vendors?)) allow for player driven economy give us the resources to build communities .

 

I think that is actually a lot of the "problems" with SWTOR. It did a lot of things well and others not as well, but their innovation was all spent on the 1-49 leveling game. I know that I loved leveling the first time through. However, as you stated, the content at 50 is rather generic. Raid encounters don't really give that epic feeling beyond the first kill and even then some of them don't even give that. PvP can feel awesome when you get those evenly matched teams but the likelihood of that is few and far between.

 

I think the idea of sandboxing some aspects of the game would be fantastic. Imagine a crafting system that required actual work from the crafter beyond just having the materials. Imagine building up your home on the capital planet or modifying your personal ship for missions not related only to the war effort but to more mundane things like smuggling or luxury. Imagine having the chance to play in the political field of a planet or system where the type of battle changes every day.

 

I just think that they need to add some innovation to the end-game content that can not be "finished" in such short periods.

[Goretzu]

This stuff all comes in time. To me it is unreasonable to expect stuff like this so soon.

 

Some of it should be been in the design from the beginning concept.

[Leggomy]

Some of it should be been in the design from the beginning concept.

 

Why? The fact is most people take some time to get to end game. All these mmos out right now have had years to do it. Other than the people who rush to end game or the people who want to pvp on empty servers I really see no complaints.

[Goretzu]

Why? The fact is most people take some time to get to end game. All these mmos out right now have had years to do it. Other than the people who rush to end game or the people who want to pvp on empty servers I really see no complaints.

 

The rush to the end comment was fair enough at release and at 1 month and 2 month and 3 months after Live.

 

People that are at the end game now have not "rushed" at all.

 

They'd clearly thought a lot about L1 to L49, but they'd not had that level of through for L50 (and the only sandbox feature they did have was rushed and terribly designed - Ilum - and is now no longer even in the the game. )

 

They should have given more thought to L50 and the features people need for that, it is as simple as that.

[DieAlteHexe]

Proof?

 

Or are you going to just use your server as an example?

 

Been plenty of threads around here from folk on Fatman who are begging that no more be allowed onto Fatman due to increase in queues and queue times.

 

Anecdotally, I've moved 3 times 'til I found a server that worked for me. So has half my guild. Many folk who have played MMOs before know how these things happen and that, often, server merges/transfers take a fair bit of time to implement and instead of sitting around waiting, acted and moved.

[Makasu]

Battlefield 3 failed because EA refused to release it on the Steam platform!

I and the God knows how many steam community members who buy and play these games with our friends

left BF3 alone because of Origins. EA tried to split the gaming community with Origins using their big name titles.

BF3 to steam = financial shot in the arm for EA, Nuff said!

[Leggomy]

The rush to the end comment was fair enough at release and at 1 month and 2 month and 3 months after Live.

 

People that are at the end game now have not "rushed" at all.

 

They'd clearly thought a lot about L1 to L49, but they'd not had that level of through for L50 (and the only sandbox feature they did have was rushed and terribly designed - Ilum - and is now no longer even in the the game. )

 

They should have given more thought to L50 and the features people need for that, it is as simple as that.

 

I still only have 1 lvl 50 and he just hit lvl 50 last week. So ya maybe you think that but some of us cannot play everyday and have 8 lvl 50s etc. Fact of the matter is a ton of people have no lvl 50 characters. I saw a bunch complaining right on these forums when they gave out the free 30 days. They were (and rightly so) focused on leveling up at launch and not end game. They know people will play 24 hrs a day 7 days a week until they hit 50. I am lucky to get on 3 or 4 times a week and even then its only for a couple hours at a time.

 

So ya at launch you have maybe 20% of people at end game and 80% leveling up within 90 days. All games launch with beginning first end game later. It only makes sense.

[Goretzu]

I still only have 1 lvl 50 and he just hit lvl 50 last week. So ya maybe you think that but some of us cannot play everyday and have 8 lvl 50s etc. Fact of the matter is a ton of people have no lvl 50 characters. I saw a bunch complaining right on these forums when they gave out the free 30 days. They were (and rightly so) focused on leveling up at launch and not end game. They know people will play 24 hrs a day 7 days a week until they hit 50. I am lucky to get on 3 or 4 times a week and even then its only for a couple hours at a time.

 

So ya at launch you have maybe 20% of people at end game and 80% leveling up within 90 days. All games launch with beginning first end game later. It only makes sense.

 

You've only just reached L50 fair enough.

 

But you've obviously not played very much, which is also fair enough.

 

But that still doesn't mean that those that reached L50 long, long ago "rushed" it just means you are slow.

 

In a game like vannilla EQ1 you'd be lucky to be L15 with the amount of played time you've put into SWTOR.

 

People that only averaged 1-2 hours a day have been L50 for a long time by now, if they've been efficent about it.

 

 

 

 

 

None of that should be a surprise to an MMORPG developer, by the 5th month from Live they should know a signficant proportion of their player base will be maxium level and have already accounted for it.

[Helistin]

I still only have 1 lvl 50 and he just hit lvl 50 last week. So ya maybe you think that but some of us cannot play everyday and have 8 lvl 50s etc.

 

I'm sorry that you dont have time to play more. Maybe its because you write up to 50 posts a day all defending Biowares actions or lack there of. If I would be as happy as you with the the of everything in game i wouldn't hang around here all day every day.

[Leggomy]

I'm sorry that you dont have time to play more. Maybe its because you write up to 50 posts a day all defending Biowares actions or lack there of. If I would be as happy as you with the the of everything in game i wouldn't hang around here all day every day.

 

I spend a lot of time working on the computer. I cannot play the game tho on this pc. Not that it is any of your business.

[Leggomy]

You've only just reached L50 fair enough.

 

But you've obviously not played very much, which is also fair enough.

 

But that still doesn't mean that those that reached L50 long, long ago "rushed" it just means you are slow.

 

In a game like vannilla EQ1 you'd be lucky to be L15 with the amount of played time you've put into SWTOR.

 

People that only averaged 1-2 hours a day have been L50 for a long time by now, if they've been efficent about it.

 

 

 

 

 

None of that should be a surprise to an MMORPG developer, by the 5th month from Live they should know a signficant proportion of their player base will be maxium level and have already accounted for it.

 

As they have by adding new flashpoints, new operations and a ton of other new stuff (legacy) for people of any level. You and your type just burn through content so fast they can never possibly keep up with you. So they dont bother. Most people are happily playing while you sit here complaining all day and night.

[Esoda]

It's definitely falling like a brick. I cancelled my sub Friday and was away all weekend. I returned today to find a survey in my inbox from an independent company that EA/BW obviously contracted to gather information about cancellations. If sub cancellations weren't a major issue or a concern, they'd be gathering the intel themselves or not sending them at all. This is a damage control tool.

 

Can it be saved? Certainly. But the days to save it are numbered and IMHO SWTOR will NEVER utilize or accumulate the capacity it has with the number of servers EA/BW have provided. Server mergers should be a top priority to keep the existing subs they have. Populations are too sparse for a healthy environment. Statistics show that at least 50% of those that have already left won't ever return. The other 50% are on the fence. Whether those subscribers ever return or not depends on what SWTOR may have to offer in the future, as well as what other MMO comes along that keeps them interested.

 

SWTOR currently holds the record for the fastest selling MMO in history. I think it's safe to say, if it doesn't already, also holds the fastest decline in population in history. Food for thought...

[Leggomy]

It's definitely falling like a brick. I cancelled my sub Friday and was away all weekend. I returned today to find a survey in my inbox from an independent company that EA/BW obviously contracted to gather information about cancellations. If sub cancellations weren't a major issue or a concern, they'd be gathering the intel themselves or not sending them at all. This is a damage control tool.

 

Every company in existence asks people why they are leaving. I just dropped t-mobile for verizon and they sent me the same kind of survey. Obviously t-mobile is in serious trouble.

[Goretzu]

As they have by adding new flashpoints, new operations and a ton of other new stuff (legacy) for people of any level.

 

They are adding stuff, and doing it at a pretty decent rate.

 

But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have realised what they were creating had serious limitations.

 

There was only ONE sandboxish item in SWTOR, Ilum RvR...... and it was rushed and rubbish and it's now gone, in that context there is LESS than when SWTOR went Live.

 

 

You and your type just burn through content so fast they can never possibly keep up with you. So they dont bother. Most people are happily playing while you sit here complaining all day and night.

 

You're rather judgemental though "you" and "your type" eh? It's easy to create a fake enemy to "defeat" isn't it? Anyone that disagrees with you must be a "bad sort" and not like "you" at all - humanity has been doing this for millennium to "justify" all manner of things.

 

 

 

In reality personally I realised racing to the end of SWTOR was a mugs game and I levelled alts, I still reached multiple-L50s a while ago now though.

 

But what I did or you did doesn't change the fact that SWTOR suffered badly from an end of the road at L50, and that Bioware should have been more aware of this in alpha or earlier, never mind beta or launch.

 

As for the majority? Well they aren't happy though, of the 30 people that came here with me, I'm now the only one left. They've all quit for the reasons mentioned.

 

I guess you'd say I should quit too...... well maybe I will when my sub runs out....... but that still doesn't address the real issues with SWTOR.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Goretzu

[Leggomy]

When I say "your type" I mean people who are not interested in the journey but only the destination. You only want to play end game. Don;t get all freaked out.

[Esoda]

Frankly the game is just too similar to WoW. It's not that it's bad or better or worse than WoW. It's just that there are just too many out there that are the same.

 

For me once I hit 50 and ran out of stuff to do we started raiding and we started hitting the bugs, eventually people just started quitting and when our Main Tank threw in the towel the guild just...died. It wasn't disbanded, people didn't leave it just...faded away. People just stopped logging in one by one. Some might have gone back to whatever they played before that, some might still be looking for a killer-MMO that brings actual change, without being TOO different from the tried and true EverQuest formula popularised by WoW. Personally I was planning on sitting it out until 1.2 and then trying to kick things off again, but tbh, I don't really have much motivation to do so.

 

Take away SWToR's story and you have another WoW clone, and not necessarily one that is that good either. The story is what made this game, what sucked me and so many others in, and then we got to that final confrontation and then...then what? Flashpoints? Operations? Been there, done that. PvP? Don't care. So what then? Crafting? Hah! Trading? I thought not... Exploring? Exploring what, exactly?

 

Maybe 1.2 fixed all that. But I, and many many others if the dead-ness of my server last few times I logged on is an indication, have moved on. The game was released too early with too little to keep people engaged and with vital parts missing.

 

Now I have no (active) guild anymore so the chances of me starting to play again for any amount of time are very slim and really, I think this is the case for many players that have seen their share of MMOs prior to landing here.

 

EA killed this game by releasing too early and by having the hubris of thinking they could beat Blizzard's decade old experience in keeping people engaged just by throwing more money at it. Any game that wants a serious chance at being the "next best thing in MMOs" is going to have to take risks and find a new take on MMOs, one that resounds with the masses of players. Trying to copy something and add a bell or whistle here or there is not cutting it, as Rift found out, as Age of Conan found out, as SWToR found out.

 

None of these games failed per-se but none of them are different enough from each other to keep people engaged in the long run.

 

BINGO!!! This post is spot on. Sure, the story is great, but once the story has been told, what else is there? The 'Grind.' And there are big parts of that Grind that are broken. As a member of a guild that has played a number of MMOs together, we as a group felt BW missed the target in the sense of the conflict Star Wars is based on. Rebellion vs Empire. Very few quest, OPs or FPs emphasize this theme. Structured War Zones aren't immersive for PvPer's. (And yes, I'm well aware that PvPers don't make up the entire community but we are significant in numbers)

[Goretzu]

When I say "your type" I mean people who are not interested in the journey but only the destination. You only want to play end game. Don;t get all freaked out.

 

Again "I" don't, I have next to no interesting in PvE raiding (been there done that in EQ1 over a decade ago, it was boring then and it's still boring now).

 

That doesn't mean I don't see the serious limitations that do exist though, just because I've recognised them and taken steps to avoid them.

 

They still exist and still are making many people quit, and they still should have been thought about long, long before now.

 

 

If they'd had a properly developed and functional RvR zone things would have been better.

If they'd had more depth to the space side (not necessarily JTL or anything though) things would have been better.

If they'd developed trade-skills and added fun skills thing would have been better.

 

But as things stood you got to L50 and suddenly your world was basically dailys and instanced PvP, that was never going to hold people...... it didn't in WoW for a start (that was when they started to lose long-term players).