Expertise - the Debate Thread, Place your Vote!

[DarkHelsing]

Expertise is here to stay. Even the developers have stated it.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/15/hyperspace-beacon-swtors-james-ohlen-shares-the-formula-behind/

 

There will always be a division or separation of PvE and PvP gear because that is what the developers want. They even stated why it is needed. So anti-expertise lost before they even began.

 

The Developers also publicly stated they want to know the feedback from their customers. So I'm sure they thought Expertise was a good idea when throwing it around the board room, now their entire system is in practice and it is failing so bad they have already given out a free month to try and keep players around while they fix the issues.

 

So yeah, good find.

Edited May 15, 2012 by DarkHelsing

[Hambunctious]

NOT needed

[DarkHelsing]

updated

[Wewa]

It is Needed.

 

There is HUGE difference between PvE and PvP playstayle.

Just small example.

In PvE even in fight against most dificult oponents you can just stand and unleash your best rotation and deal max amount of damage, ocasional pushback and this is all.

in normal PvP fight and even against poor players you need to use all your skills, full movement and wits to win.

 

So yes, Expertise is needed and if you want to be equal in fight against human oponents you need to EARN IT!

[SkDush]

Not sure if it has been said, 71 pages......but here goes.

 

If you think there should be no PvP only stat in a game that has PvE and PvP.

 

I've a few questions for you:

 

1. How do you stop people in the best PvE gear pwning in PvP.....make PvP and PvE gear the same?

2. If PvE and PvP gear are the same, how do you balance PvE encounters and class balancing for PvP?

3. How do you make the gear fair to get for both play styles?

[xxdragonragexx]

The Developers also publicly stated they want to know the feedback from their customers. So I'm sure they thought Expertise was a good idea when throwing it around the board room, now their entire system is in practice and it is failing so bad they have already given out a free month to try and keep players around while they fix the issues.

 

So yeah, good find.

 

Expertise is the only thing working beautifully in this game. This game is suffering from lack of content and not pvp stat.

[xxdragonragexx]

Gear will always play a role. Lots of MMO gamers want it that way too. Especially people like me who likes to build their character and pvp with them. I like to build my character, give them stats that separates them from the rest. I min/max my stats for maximum burst and high survival rate. Or just make them a glass cannon which is full high dps that dies easily.

 

Ever since the creation of Final Fantasy and other related RPG, I've always wanted to gear up my characters with new outfits, clothes and stats. It is the same for a lot of people. MMORPG games are built for people like me who likes this type of playstyle. MMO games provide us with more flexibility and allow us to pvp with our characters.

 

In essence, if a player wants to beat me, he has to do the following.

1 - Gear up to my level - Get the minimum amount of gear so that RNG doesn't play a huge factor.

2 - Higher Skill Than Me - Once he has the necessary gear then he has to be able to attack every GCD, use his cooldowns at the right time, and be able to manage crowd control abilities.

3 - Better stat allocation - He needs to spend time on his character and think about how to allocate stats. Whether to add more survival, defense, or more damage or else my character will still win even if my HP is only at 10%.

 

I build my character and theorycraft its stats to the fullest and then see how well it fares against real pvp. My character is like a plant that I cultivate. It then massacres everything in its path due to careful planning.

 

This is why people play MMOPVP and not FPS. If you want gear to not play a role then go to Guild Wars 2. That game will suck the same way guild wars 1 sucked. A MMO game without gear progression will always fail.

Edited May 16, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[DarkHelsing]

Not sure if it has been said, 71 pages......but here goes.

 

If you think there should be no PvP only stat in a game that has PvE and PvP.

 

I've a few questions for you:

 

1. How do you stop people in the best PvE gear pwning in PvP.....make PvP and PvE gear the same?

Several suggestion were made about this. The general idea is this - in a new system if it takes 1 hour of PvP to get a piece of gear, and it takes 1 hour of PvE, than there's no reason the gear has to have the huge separation that it currently does.

2. If PvE and PvP gear are the same, how do you balance PvE encounters and class balancing for PvP?

Again, several suggestions on this too. Bolster is one, it is already in place and already intended to do just that. As you level 10-49, you PvE with PvE gear, then if you so please you can PvP with that same gear.

3. How do you make the gear fair to get for both play styles?

My favorite suggestion on this was through Set Bonuses. The other suggestion I am in favor of is to allow both PvE and PvP different rewards in the sense of the modifications players can get for their equipment - the modifications that have higher endurance can be rewarded from PvP, while the higher main stat can be rewarded from PvE.

 

But yes, several very good suggestions have been stated in this massive thread.

Edited May 16, 2012 by DarkHelsing

[DarkHelsing]

Expertise is the only thing working beautifully in this game. This game is suffering from lack of content and not pvp stat.

 

Well, that is your opinion. To bad a large portion of the population in this game disagrees with you.

[xxdragonragexx]

Well, that is your opinion. To bad a large portion of the population in this game disagrees with you.

 

According to your inflated stats, the majority of the swtor population agrees with me.

[DarkHelsing]

According to your inflated stats, the majority of the swtor population agrees with me.

 

Well, the people that agree with you are not the ones you have to worry about though are they, so pointless remark... but thanks for playing.

 

I'd like to be able to say that your stats are accurate, but you haven't provided any because that would require work on your behalf to prove what you are accusing...

 

I guess you can be happy with the fact that you're the only one in denial about the results. Cheers.

Edited May 16, 2012 by DarkHelsing

[xxdragonragexx]

Hmmm let's see, developers want to separate pvp and pve gear.

They agree with me.

Even with inflated stats, the majority agrees with me.

 

Who agrees with you?

The minority.

Not the developers.

 

Looks like your anti pvp propaganda isn't going anywhere. It lost before it began. Nobody wants it. Not the playerbase and not the developers. Go ahead, do more work. Do a lot more. Do everything you can. It is just futile anyway. Just remember I'll be laughing and doing a roflcopter all the way.

 

So if playerbase don't want it and developers don't want it, who else are you going to appeal to? You know what you should do, write a big essay. Or create a big website about swtor expertise. I think those will help a lot.

[DarkHelsing]

Hmmm let's see, developers want to separate pvp and pve gear.

They agree with me.

Even with inflated stats, the majority agrees with me.

 

Who agrees with you?

The minority.

Not the developers.

 

Looks like your anti pvp propaganda isn't going anywhere. It lost before it began. Nobody wants it. Not the playerbase and not the developers. Go ahead, do more work. Do a lot more. Do everything you can. It is just futile anyway. Just remember I'll be laughing and doing a roflcopter all the way.

 

So if playerbase don't want it and developers don't want it, who else are you going to appeal to? You know what you should do, write a big essay. Or create a big website about swtor expertise. I think those will help a lot.

 

Well I'm convinced.

 

Wait, no, I mean thanks for wasting your time trying to convince me.

[xxdragonragexx]

Well I'm convinced.

 

Wait, no, I mean thanks for wasting your time trying to convince me.

 

My time is yours to waste. Look I'm helping you by bumping your thread. You don't have to keep bumping it whenever it goes to page 10 because nobody cares. Anything I can do to help your cause, just tell me.

 

It is because I care.

Ok I lied, I don't care. I just find your plight and suffering entertaining.

Edited May 16, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[DarkHelsing]

My time is yours to waste. Look I'm helping you by bumping your thread. You don't have to keep bumping it whenever it goes to page 10 because nobody cares. Anything I can do to help your cause, just tell me.

 

It is because I care.

Ok I lied, I don't care. I just find your plight and suffering entertaining.

 

Well, you certainly think highly of yourself... at least someone does. I do appreciate the bumps though, thank you! And thank you for your Vote!

[DarkDruidSS]

Arguing with Darkhelsing is futile. He doesn't care about facts or anything and immediately dismisses anything that would point to his cause being meaningless.

 

I will give him props for posting the name of everyone that posted... not going to go through the whole thread to try to prove his numbers wrong... his numbers that he shows not only show that more people still want expertise.. but it still shows the number that voted is so small that the results are absolutely void of any statistical value. Even low balling how many people that still play this game... probably around the 300k mark if not more since they started in the 1.3 million ballpark.. less than 250 votes means jack in an argument on what the player base wants.

[Calds]

All I get out of this thread is that darkhelsing has too much time on his hands. Spend it pvping and getting the pvp gear instead of forum stalking.

[Solaufein]

According to your inflated stats, the majority of the swtor population agrees with me.

 

How can you know that?

 

At the time of writing this post - 121 voters agreed with you. And 91 agreed with the OP. Assuming 1m players. That's 0.121% that are for Expertise and 0.091% against Expertise.

 

The majority is the 99.9% that haven't even voted. I think it's safe to say we have no idea what the SWTOR population thinks based on this small sample. All we know is what the forum users that bothered to respond think.

 

At least the OP has tackled this matter in an objective and reasonable manner.

[xxdragonragexx]

less than 250 votes means jack in an argument on what the player base wants.

 

Don't tell him that. I've never even stated that in any of my post. It might make him stop doing work. I may lose my source of entertainment.

 

 

How can you know that?

 

At the time of writing this post - 121 voters agreed with you. And 91 agreed with the OP. Assuming 1m players. That's 0.121% that are for Expertise and 0.091% against Expertise.

 

The majority is the 99.9% that haven't even voted. I think it's safe to say we have no idea what the SWTOR population thinks based on this small sample. All we know is what the forum users that bothered to respond think.

 

At least the OP has tackled this matter in an objective and reasonable manner.

 

I was playing around with DarkHelsings delusions. To him, his 200+ votes is a good statistical sample of the swtor population. Can't I play with Darkhelsing? I mean, it is hard to find delusional people these days that are so committed.

Edited May 16, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[DarkHelsing]

Arguing with Darkhelsing is futile. He doesn't care about facts or anything and immediately dismisses anything that would point to his cause being meaningless.

Because I'm not here to argue, so yes, it is futile to argue with me about it. I like hearing the opinions but you're not going to force your opinion on me. Discussing opinions is one thing, but trying to preach it to me isn't going to get anyone anywhere. Everyone has an opinion, and others are allowed to agree/disagree with that opinion, but trying to pick a fight or accuse that I'm inflating the poll... that's just childish.

 

I will give him props for posting the name of everyone that posted... not going to go through the whole thread to try to prove his numbers wrong... his numbers that he shows not only show that more people still want expertise.. but it still shows the number that voted is so small that the results are absolutely void of any statistical value. Even low balling how many people that still play this game... probably around the 300k mark if not more since they started in the 1.3 million ballpark.. less than 250 votes means jack in an argument on what the player base wants.

Don't tell him that. I've never even stated that in any of my post. It might make him stop doing work. I may lose my source of entertainment.

 

I was playing around with DarkHelsings delusions. To him, his 200+ votes is a good statistical sample of the swtor population. Can't I play with Darkhelsing? I mean, it is hard to find delusional people these days that are so committed.

 

I understand that many people don't understand how polls work, that's normal... below is a good read, if either of you have a chance, check it out., or anyone else for that matter that is curious as to how polls can and cannot work.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/7174/yes-polling-works.aspx

Edited May 16, 2012 by DarkHelsing

[Solaufein]

I was playing around with DarkHelsings delusions. To him, his 200+ votes is a good statistical sample of the swtor population. Can't I play with Darkhelsing? I mean, it is hard to find delusional people these days that are so committed.

 

Sure but no need to beat up on the guy. Save that for the WZ's.

 

For what it's worth I agree with you, especially your next quote below. I actually like to do the same for PVE, play the min / max game - it's what marks my performance out from the full time PvP'er who likes to dip into Operations now and then. It's what guarantees I'll get first call on a raid place, doing something I like to do, over that fella. There's always an element of competition in gaming.

 

Gear will always play a role. Lots of MMO gamers want it that way too. Especially people like me who likes to build their character and pvp with them. I like to build my character, give them stats that separates them from the rest. I min/max my stats for maximum burst and high survival rate. Or just make them a glass cannon which is full high dps that dies easily.

 

But it's nice to see an opposite view sometimes though. I like to keep an open mind. If we're going to have a decent community here it'd be cool to encourage new ideas, and not jump all over them.

 

That's my two penneth anyway, for what it's worth.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Solaufein

[DarkHelsing]

Sure but no need to beat up on the guy. Save that for the WZ's.

 

For what it's worth I agree with you, especially this.

 

 

 

It's nice to see an opposite view sometimes though. I like to keep an open mind. If we're going to have a decent community here it'd be cool to encourage new ideas, and not jump all over them.

 

That's my two penneth anyway, for what it's worth.

 

Well said.

 

Here's a good read about polling, if you're curious.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/7174/yes-polling-works.aspx

[DarkDruidSS]

Because I'm not here to argue, so yes, it is futile to argue with me about it. I like hearing the opinions but you're not going to force your opinion on me.

 

Hmm, except you have argued with every post I have posted in your thread and you are trying to preach to me.

[DarkDruidSS]

Sure but no need to beat up on the guy. Save that for the WZ's.

 

No that is exactly WHY I am posting. I have been in queue for 30 mins on my server. IF I could PvP someone then I would be much happier. Sadly the most PvP I get these days is on these forums.

[BlueFromMoon]

I think Elder Scroll Online's way would be the best IMHO.