Saviorr Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 So you think I haven't done 8m hard mode since release on PTS? You're being fascetious. I already told you it's alt and puggable on live. And, in 8 man hard mode, we had to stop DPS during the second bomb so we don't kill him, just like we peel off in 16 man. As far as I'm concerned it's the exact same fight in 8 man and 16, just in 8 man the healing on the tank in phase 3 is easier. The bugs they fix don't make it easier or harder, they just prolong the fight a small amount. If you're on hard mode kephiss, you can run out of a giant purple circle. There is nothing even innately difficult about the fight in either mode. The first time we pulled it in 8 man on the PTS we killed it in two attempts (after knowing story mode mechanics), the first time we did it on 16 man it took us 5 attempts. On live in 8 man we one shot it. The fight is a joke in both versions and the only thing that's even remotely difficult about the fight is healing the tank once Kephiss is on him-- which I find significantly easier in 8 man, and that's why I consider the fight easier in 8 man. Interesting how you recorded your 16 man kills on raid ranks but have yet to do your 8 man. Just curious why you haven't yet? Considering 8 man (until today) was significantly harder than 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papadodo Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Please stay on-topic, Thank you. My guild doing 8-man Hard mode last night 11PM (GMT+7) , after May 1st Maintenance. His AoE still bug - killed half of our raid (light + medium armor player). Anyone killed him after May 1st , please share your tactic. Really want to kill this Kephess Thank you very much!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trephination Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Please stay on-topic, Thank you. My guild doing 8-man Hard mode last night 11PM (GMT+7) , after May 1st Maintenance. His AoE still bug - killed half of our raid (light + medium armor player). Anyone killed him after May 1st , please share your tactic. Really want to kill this Kephess Thank you very much!! The fight is still bugged, but we were able to clear it tonight with a somewhat convoluted strat. If you have a sniper in your group, have them park at 30+ meters from Keph as he approaches 60%, then Entrench + raid shield. The sniper will not be pulled into the purple circle because of Entrench. The rest of the raid stacks tightly behind Kephess, to ensure there is almost no travel time as he pulls you in. After the raid is pulled in just after 60% HP, everybody must use their defensive cooldowns and med-packs. If there is a particularly squishy person in your raid, make sure they are either sorc bubbled or hotted before the pull-in happens. The entire raid runs toward where the sniper shield is parked, to take advantage of the extra 20% mitigation. If you have a marauder in your group, have them use raid-wide sprint at this time, too. Using this strat, we had 0 deaths during the pull-in phase. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Interesting how you recorded your 16 man kills on raid ranks but have yet to do your 8 man. Just curious why you haven't yet? Considering 8 man (until today) was significantly harder than 16. Why bother recording 8 man when 16 man is all that really matters? Honestly like, when we did 8 man, we joked about recording 8 man... literally joked about it. And why do people keep saying 8 man is harder? Every time someone says 8 man is or was harder, I feel like I'm being trolled. It's just not even even close in my opinion. I feel completely confident going into 8 man hard mode with a couple of noob pugs and my alt, but I don't even want to pug a single person for 16 man, it makes my head hurt to think of it. Although on the other topic. Tonight in 16 man we got the whole raid out of the purple and it kept ticking for 5k over and over again until finally everyone died.... We pulled again and then that time we prebubbled the whole raid and all ran to the same spot where we dropped puddles and tried to heal through it... But it seemed to tick over and over again until we all died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styrka Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Why bother recording 8 man when 16 man is all that really matters? Honestly like, when we did 8 man, we joked about recording 8 man... literally joked about it. And why do people keep saying 8 man is harder? Every time someone says 8 man is or was harder, I feel like I'm being trolled. It's just not even even close in my opinion. I feel completely confident going into 8 man hard mode with a couple of noob pugs and my alt, but I don't even want to pug a single person for 16 man, it makes my head hurt to think of it. Although on the other topic. Tonight in 16 man we got the whole raid out of the purple and it kept ticking for 5k over and over again until finally everyone died.... We pulled again and then that time we prebubbled the whole raid and all ran to the same spot where we dropped puddles and tried to heal through it... But it seemed to tick over and over again until we all died. Maybe try 8-man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Maybe try 8-man? Read my posts, cleared it already with undergeared alts. It's very easy. Of course, 16 man is really easy too, the only thing that makes 16 man hard at all is that you have to micro manage 16 different people and some of them don't listen too well. Maybe that's the biggest disconnect here; you people actually think that anything in EC is hard at all, and I think none of it is hard and if anything is hard on 16 or 8 man it's because you have a poor strategy or people that simply can't play. If you're trying to carry someone who can't play through an 8 man, well that's impossible, wheras you can carry a noob through 16 man. But on the level, nothing is hard at all about this content, it's just more difficult to control 16 raiders than it is to control 8 raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 On topic: I secretly hope the intent is to heal through the gift of the masters damage on the whole raid. That'd be pretty cool. It's doable with medpacks, bubbling the whole raid, sniper bubble, and aoe heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinaa Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) So they really did patch in the bugged version from 8 man to 16 man version, glad to hear it (lol), and here we really thought they test changes, right? If they really decide to make it an intended mechanic, this will be just another step in the wrong direction, because it promotes (adv) class stacking, which is a terrible idea. On the 8 vs 16 thing: Well you finally said the challenge is the amount of people and managing them. This is exactly what I don't want to. Done it long enough in other games and if I don't have 16 good friends/guildies, I don't want to be forced or challenged with bringing someone just to fill the group. That is not fun, just plain annoying for the rest. Edited May 2, 2012 by Shinaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsie Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 We're waiting for your bugged 16m kill vid xeno. What's taking so long, the reset happened yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dacozin Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) We were able to kill 8man HM last night with the bug 58%. If you want to see a clean kill watch the vid. http://www.narcosisguild.com/ Edited May 2, 2012 by dacozin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinaa Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 As a guildie pointed out, they updated the Known Issues list with this bug, but ONLY for 16 man? I don't even know ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 We're waiting for your bugged 16m kill vid xeno. What's taking so long, the reset happened yesterday? Pulled twice, decided not to mess with it until Sunday because it was 2 am. Figured by then they'll either have hot fixed it or we'll just heal through it. If they haven't fixed it by then I'll give you a bugged kill video... =) I don't think it'd require advanced class stacking. Just need to shield the whole raid, drop a couple of sorc revivs, have a sniper shield, and make everyone use a medpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) I think the best way to explain why 16 is harder than 8 comes from a great example from another game... In WoW with Heroic Lich King, if you look at 10 man verse 25 man, the fights were mirrors. 10 man DPS requirements were pretty much exactly the same, and healing was probably more difficult to be honest with you because the priest shielding the raid also had to help with the tank and the dispels. Why did it take so long to kill in 25, and why were so many guilds struggling with 25, when 10 was a walk in the park? (Like in this game, we did heroic 10 LK with alts, it was kind of a joke compared to 25, even though the mechanics were identical.) Pace and space, and people management. Maybe the mechanics in 8 man are the same, or even slightly harder than 16 man, but the bottom line is that even in heroic lich king, there wasn't really a single job that was hard. Each and every mechanic, piece by piece, was easy. Just like it is in SWTOR, there are no really difficult mechanics, it is the people management that makes the game more difficult. If there was a Starcraft 2 interface, I could probably do 8 man hard modes controlling all the players stting up macros, I could not do that for 16 man. That's why, in my opinion, 16 man is harder. I can't micro manage every single player and tell them exactly what to do and when. Edited May 2, 2012 by xenofire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwortbutch Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) We killed him tonight on 16m Hardmode. Gift of the Masters is definitely bugged, but manageable. And no, we didn't use line of sight or any other "exploit". Edited May 2, 2012 by bwortbutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 We killed him tonight on 16m Hardmode. Gift of the Masters is definately bugged, but manageable. And no, we didn't use line of sight or any other "exploit". You guys just heal through it? I'm quite positive that's managable, we just never tried since our sniper DC'd and it was 2 am so we didn't want to wait for him to come back. =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwortbutch Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) You guys just heal through it? I'm quite positive that's managable, we just never tried since our sniper DC'd and it was 2 am so we didn't want to wait for him to come back. =p I think my guildmates would lynch me if i told you how exactly we did it, sorry. :-/ But just go ahead and try it, it should be pretty obvious whether it works or not. Took us 4-5 pulls till we figured out the final strat and killed him. Edited May 2, 2012 by bwortbutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I think my guildmates would lynch me if i told you how exactly we did it, sorry. :-/ But just go ahead and try it, it should be pretty obvious whether it works or not. Took us 4-5 pulls till we figured out the final strat and killed him. Can you at least tell me how many ticks you guys were taking for the duration? Our raid members all took 6 ticks of 6k damage, mitigated by armor, (5k on the clothies, etc..). So the clothies took 30k and the heavy armors took closer to 20k but popped energy shield. Theoretically if we prebubble the whole raid and pop sniper shield and everyone eats a medpack in addition to aoe heals, it should be just enough to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinaa Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Good luck with hoping for a hot fix, we did that last week, since nothing happend for over a week and it was last day before reset, we tried some diffrent ideas and killed him then. The damage was around that number, 5-6k ticks depending on armor and since our gunslinger was not avaible, it was pretty much impossible to heal through (we also don't have a sage healer with mainspec). So yeah, I call that stacking if you are required to have certain classes and specs just to be able to survive that crap that one week before, was working well (you had to use cooldowns and maybe a medpack to get out of the circle alive, but it stopped instantly when you left the circle and lived as dps with about 10-20%). Lich king: I was raidleader for all of ICC so I really now what was going on there, we killed Lich King 10 hard months before our 25 man, he was a little easier on 10, not exactly the same, but all it came down to was getting 25 geared people that did enough dps and did not stand in the f..... defile. I can live without that. Edited May 2, 2012 by Shinaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Good luck with hoping for a hot fix, we did that last week, since nothing happend for over a week and it was last day before reset, we tried some diffrent ideas and killed him then. The damage was around that number, 5-6k ticks depending on armor and since our gunslinger was not avaible, it was pretty much impossible to heal through (we also don't have a sage healer with mainspec). So yeah, I call that stacking if you are required to have certain classes and specs just to be able to survive that crap that one week before, was working well (you had to use cooldowns and maybe a medpack to get out of the circle alive, but it stopped instantly when you left the circle and lived as dps with about 10-20%). Lich king: I was raidleader for all of ICC so I really now what was going on there, we killed Lich King 10 hard months before our 25 man, he was a little easier on 10, not exactly the same, but all it came down to was getting 25 geared people that did enough dps and did not stand in the f..... defile. I can live without that. I think it was slightly harder on 10 man for the healers and the DPS check may have been easier in 25 too. But yeah, it really did come down to not standing in the defile, and so having more people just made it more likely each attempt someone would mess up. That's the way I view this content. In 16 man last night the circle never stopped ticking, even when our whole group got out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwortbutch Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Can you at least tell me how many ticks you guys were taking for the duration? Our raid members all took 6 ticks of 6k damage, mitigated by armor, (5k on the clothies, etc..). So the clothies took 30k and the heavy armors took closer to 20k but popped energy shield. Theoretically if we prebubble the whole raid and pop sniper shield and everyone eats a medpack in addition to aoe heals, it should be just enough to survive. I've seen it tick for 7 times total. That was without leaving the circle, and not on the kill try: [XX:31:16.098] [Warlord Kephess {2876588706234368}] [@Butch] [Gift of the Masters {2877310260740096}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage [XX:31:17.001] [Warlord Kephess {2876588706234368}] [@Butch] [Gift of the Masters {2877310260740096}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage [XX:31:18.015] [Warlord Kephess {2876588706234368}] [@Butch] [Gift of the Masters {2877310260740096}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage [XX:31:19.025] [Warlord Kephess {2876588706234368}] [@Butch] [Gift of the Masters {2877310260740096}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage [XX:31:19.985] [Warlord Kephess {2876588706234368}] [@Butch] [Gift of the Masters {2877310260740096}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage [XX:31:20.995] [Warlord Kephess {2876588706234368}] [@Butch] [Gift of the Masters {2877310260740096}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage [XX:31:21.006] [Warlord Kephess {2876588706234368}] [@Butch] [Gift of the Masters {2877310260740096}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage Again, that was not on our kill try. We adjusted our strat and killed him soon after. But that will be the last bit of info, sorry. We had fun figuring out something "new", and i'm sure you will too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Very interesting that two of your ticks applied so close together. 7 ticks, two of them being essentially double ticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinaa Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The damage stopped outside the circle before the bug (about 1,5 weeks after 1.2. release), after that the range is about double of the animation, but if you stay inside the circle, the last tick ticks twice, taking away up to 50% health of most classes and without good cooldowns, kills most non tanks. The initial pull to the boss often did alot of damage too, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The damage stopped outside the circle before the bug (about 1,5 weeks after 1.2. release), after that the range is about double of the animation, but if you stay inside the circle, the last tick ticks twice, taking away up to 50% health of most classes and without good cooldowns, kills most non tanks. The initial pull to the boss often did alot of damage too, by the way. If people are still getting pulled to the boss you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviorr Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 If people are still getting pulled to the boss you're handling the bugged mechanic wrong. Fixed for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviorr Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Why bother recording 8 man when 16 man is all that really matters? Honestly like, when we did 8 man, we joked about recording 8 man... literally joked about it. And why do people keep saying 8 man is harder? Every time someone says 8 man is or was harder, I feel like I'm being trolled. It's just not even even close in my opinion. I feel completely confident going into 8 man hard mode with a couple of noob pugs and my alt, but I don't even want to pug a single person for 16 man, it makes my head hurt to think of it. Although on the other topic. Tonight in 16 man we got the whole raid out of the purple and it kept ticking for 5k over and over again until finally everyone died.... We pulled again and then that time we prebubbled the whole raid and all ran to the same spot where we dropped puddles and tried to heal through it... But it seemed to tick over and over again until we all died. 16 man was a joke. The mechanic wasn't even working as intended on 16 man until this week. Even in KP and EV 16 man was significantly easier. 16 man has never been harder than 8 man. Anyone who says so is simply wrong. Our progression group runs 8 man, while our lower level groups (in mostly columi) have done 16 man. We don't even bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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