Premades ruining the pvp of this game

[olagaton]

Do you really think premades do that ... you're in for a shock.

 

Most good premades talk about:

- How bad their opposition is

- How bad swtor's pvp is

- The next game they will play

 

But keep making excuses ... and more importantly keep thinking we talk like this:

'Excecute huttball plan Omega Alpha- 3"

The premades worth competing against absolutely evaluate the skill of who they are bringing in, the class, try to be consistent with that group, and try to develop strategies with each other.

 

If you're talking about other premades, then many still do have some sort of consistency and skill balance involved. Most tend to have the same gear progression as well, unless they are taking a newbie under their wing.

[ShadowOfVey]

There's only one thing ruining this game. Those teams of operatives are still at it and people just disappear in the middle of my warzones making it 8 v 3 or something due to all the instant unsubs.

[Astarica]

The premades worth competing against absolutely evaluate the skill of who they are bringing in, the class, try to be consistent with that group, and try to develop strategies with each other.

 

If you're talking about other premades, then many still do have some sort of consistency and skill balance involved. Most tend to have the same gear progression as well, unless they are taking a newbie under their wing.

 

Um, the top premades on my server just say stuff like "watch how the pros do it" and then often fail spectucularly if matched up against another top premade who may actually have a plan. The two times I have been in where the said premades actually communicated a strategy in chat I can tell they actually know what they're doing but 99% of the time they'll just employ the 'kill them all' strat which may or may not actually work.

 

People assume the premades take the game way too seriously when it's usually not the case. If you really do win most of your games you'd just spend most of your time talking about how awesome you are or how bad your enemy is, not refine Huttball strategy Alpha-Omega 3. Again this isn't saying top preamdes don't have strategy. They clearly do have them but they don't use it 99% of the time unless they have some idea of what the enemy is. The two times the top premade talked to me, one time was Huttball and they know their other top premade from same guild is on the other side, and the other game is on Alderaan and we all know when the Republic's top premade plays so we're quite certain we'll be matched up against them, so we actually talked about what to do. I think it turned out we didn't get the premade we were expecting, but certainly both the premade and I had a certain team in mind when we communicated.

[Orangerascal]

The premades worth competing against absolutely evaluate the skill of who they are bringing in, the class, try to be consistent with that group, and try to develop strategies with each other.

 

If you're talking about other premades, then many still do have some sort of consistency and skill balance involved. Most tend to have the same gear progression as well, unless they are taking a newbie under their wing.

 

Seeing as you don't play premades, let alone a 'top premade' (lolz at that btw). I don't know how you can comment and keep a straight face. Especially after a few people have said ....

 

'Oh my god that's so true' to what I wrote ... you know that actually do play in premades.

 

Keep having your nightmares about premades. It won't change in this game or the next one you play. Queue priorisation is a good as it will get. Suck it up soldier and stop the QQ.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Khoraji]

The premades worth competing against absolutely evaluate the skill of who they are bringing in, the class, try to be consistent with that group, and try to develop strategies with each other.

.

 

No, they really don't. Once rated come out yea, but right now most pre-mades are made up of whoever put "X" in guild chat first.

[beyondkilling]

this may be a shock but you can do this too

[doughboyxx]

The problem isn't premades as much as it is players on the pug groups who simply have no idea what they are doing. It is not their fault either....we all start somewhere. We need to encourage the pugs who suck to que and get better...because the more they play the better they will get...then down the road we will have a larger community of good players.

 

I play both premade and pug. Many times we don't use mumble on our premades as we are just quickly "guild" gropuing for some rounds. However what we do have are good pvpers for the most part who all know how to play the games and understand the basic strats. Thus our odds of getting crappy players is reduced by half...as opposed to a random pug player quing who has twice the chance for crappy or ungeared players.

 

My advice is for the original poster to play both. You should get into a pvp guild if you really want to get serious about pvp. It's much easier for you to do that (takes almost no effort at all) than for the folks here to seperate premades and pugs. I lose very often in pug gropus and think nothing of it. I don't mind at all losing and helping out some newer players.

[Astarica]

No, they really don't. Once rated come out yea, but right now most pre-mades are made up of whoever put "X" in guild chat first.

 

I've seen a lot of totally weird group composition from the top PvP guild on my server, like 2 Tanksins + tank Jugg + Sniper. Not saying that's necessarily a weak group but there's literally no synergy between those 4 characters so I can't imagine that team was formed with any particular goal in mind.. I'll often see a premade with a healer without someone who can guard. Seriously, you've evil premades refining their ways to ruin everyone's day and take over the world, and they didn't realize they should have someone who can Guard their only healer when picking the strongest 4 instrument of war known to man?

Edited May 18, 2012 by Astarica

[Khoraji]

I've seen a lot of totally weird group composition from the top PvP guild on my server, like 2 Tanksins + tank Jugg + Sniper. Not saying that's necessarily a weak group but there's literally no synergy between those 4 characters so I can't imagine that team was formed with any particular goal in mind.. I'll often see a premade with a healer without someone who can guard. Seriously, you've evil premades refining their ways to ruin everyone's day and take over the world, and they didn't realize they should have someone who can Guard their only healer when picking the strongest 4 instrument of war known to man?

 

Exactly. Like yesterday my pre-made was:

 

2 merc healers

1 op healer

1 Pyro PT

[V-Serp]

 

I play both premade and pug. Many times we don't use mumble on our premades as we are just quickly "guild" gropuing for some rounds. However what we do have are good pvpers for the most part who all know how to play the games and understand the basic strats. Thus our odds of getting crappy players is reduced by half...as opposed to a random pug player quing who has twice the chance for crappy or ungeared players.

 

My advice is for the original poster to play both. You should get into a pvp guild if you really want to get serious about pvp. It's much easier for you to do that (takes almost no effort at all) than for the folks here to seperate premades and pugs. I lose very often in pug gropus and think nothing of it. I don't mind at all losing and helping out some newer players.

 

Nobody really cares about your scrubby premade. The complaints are against the good premades, the ones that are geared up, have great team composition, good players, and excellent coordination from using voice comm correctly.

 

On the Fatman server, Republic PUGs routinely crush Imp premades---except for 2 premades. A PUG group has a very low chance of overcoming the advantages those two premades have, even though man for man a lot of times Republic PUG groups are putting in 3-4 very good players, usually people in guilds that are just solo queuing for the variety and challenge of getting PUGs to work together. That doesn't mean the PUG group will always win against the other premades or other PUG groups, it just means they can and do win consistently. Once in a blue moon those 2 top premades might lose a match to a PUG group, and then they just turn around and blame the PUGs they are with, in the seemingly rare situation they're not queued with each other.

 

The fact is in general the level of play is very low in this game, and I think most of the premades know they aren't any good either. The bad premades don't want to face the good premades, PUGs don't want to face the good premades either. You're left with maybe 4-5 premades on each server that would actually be competitive with each other, and everybody else just gets farmed by them. With cross server, that will increase a bit, but still I'd bet a lot of people will quit if they're getting farmed by the 20 or so good premades in the entire game.

 

That is why Bioware isn't putting premade vs premade. While it would make a few PUGs happy, it would crush most of the premade base who would just stop playing altogether. While before they could win because most PUGs are so bad that the premade advantage was enough to give them success, if they lose that advantage they'd be exposed and it'd destroy their egos. And I maintain that the premade player base is much larger than the PUG player base, so if Bioware is looking at it from a business standpoint, it's far better to keep the average premade player happy and subscribed by feeding them crappy PUGs that will come and go.

[doughboyxx]

Nobody really cares about your scrubby premade. The complaints are against the good premades, the ones that are geared up, have great team composition, good players, and excellent coordination from using voice comm correctly.

 

On the Fatman server, Republic PUGs routinely crush Imp premades---except for 2 premades. A PUG group has a very low chance of overcoming the advantages those two premades have, even though man for man a lot of times Republic PUG groups are putting in 3-4 very good players, usually people in guilds that are just solo queuing for the variety and challenge of getting PUGs to work together. That doesn't mean the PUG group will always win against the other premades or other PUG groups, it just means they can and do win consistently. Once in a blue moon those 2 top premades might lose a match to a PUG group, and then they just turn around and blame the PUGs they are with, in the seemingly rare situation they're not queued with each other.

 

The fact is in general the level of play is very low in this game, and I think most of the premades know they aren't any good either. The bad premades don't want to face the good premades, PUGs don't want to face the good premades either. You're left with maybe 4-5 premades on each server that would actually be competitive with each other, and everybody else just gets farmed by them. With cross server, that will increase a bit, but still I'd bet a lot of people will quit if they're getting farmed by the 20 or so good premades in the entire game.

 

That is why Bioware isn't putting premade vs premade. While it would make a few PUGs happy, it would crush most of the premade base who would just stop playing altogether. While before they could win because most PUGs are so bad that the premade advantage was enough to give them success, if they lose that advantage they'd be exposed and it'd destroy their egos. And I maintain that the premade player base is much larger than the PUG player base, so if Bioware is looking at it from a business standpoint, it's far better to keep the average premade player happy and subscribed by feeding them crappy PUGs that will come and go.

 

Only read the first two lines of your story.....srry the OP doesn't talk about good or bad premades....just premades vs pugs. I was only responding to the original post and havn't read any of your other stories. Go re-read the title of the thread...then the original post...then think before you comment on my response to it.

[olagaton]

Um, the top premades on my server just say stuff like "watch how the pros do it" and then often fail spectucularly if matched up against another top premade who may actually have a plan. The two times I have been in where the said premades actually communicated a strategy in chat I can tell they actually know what they're doing but 99% of the time they'll just employ the 'kill them all' strat which may or may not actually work.

I would hardly call that a premade team then. If 4 people group up, but they play like they are random queues, then they can't seriously be considered a premade.

 

Seeing as you don't play premades, let alone a 'top premade' (lolz at that btw). I don't know how you can comment and keep a straight face. Especially after a few people have said ....

 

'Oh my god that's so true' to what I wrote ... you know that actually do play in premades.

 

Keep having your nightmares about premades. It won't change in this game or the next one you play. Queue priorisation is a good as it will get. Suck it up soldier and stop the QQ.

I have played in premades before. When we were attempting to accomplish a specific goal, we would absolutely discuss strategy. Again, if your premades don't do this, you probably aren't categorized as the premade being argued against in this thread.

[Motoeric]

Uhh....Okay? Like I posted in another topic, people always need an excuse as to why they're losing. It blows my mind that they somehow see their losing as something that needs to be FIXED by the developers of the game.

 

What you're essentially complaining about is that your team is losing because the other team is communicating better. Think on how dumb that sounds.

 

hahahaha i love this ****. i agree with you bro and all the QQ fix please threads are hilarious. i think it shows that theres only baddies left playing sw;tor

[ShadowOfVey]

After pugs play only against pugs, they'll blame their losses on the other sides gear advantage.

 

After gear is made uniform and they still lose,they'll blame it on overpowered classes.

 

After everything is nerfed and those classes suck and they still lose, they'll blame it on I Can't Believe It's Not Butter or something.

[Astarica]

I would hardly call that a premade team then. If 4 people group up, but they play like they are random queues, then they can't seriously be considered a premade.

 

 

People need to stop imagining premades are always out refining their ways to steamroll PUGs with their Alpha-Omega 3 plan. Never mind that if you're constantly steamrolling people you really wouldn't need to refine your killer plan at all anyway. The time where I actually communicated with the top premade on Alderran we did the double Corellian gambit followed by the Prothemeus Protocol. Wait that never actually happened. Actually the leader of the premade sent me a tell: "can you defend snow?" and I say sure and that's about the only thing I heard from them in the whole game, and it was certainly a good plan compared to NOT defending snow.

 

I mean what the heck does play like a team mean? Do you regularly abandon your team and/or objectives to rack up numbers? If so the problem goes way beyond premades.

[Astarica]

Let's say you're in Voidstar, some guy is planting the bomb and an Operative waits by the respawn point to drop an AE blind for the new guys to get the plant in. I think people must imagine this is what's actually happening on the enemy side if they were a premade:

 

Red leader: This is Red leader, I'm going in, blue 2 cover me. Red 3 intercept new respawning defenders.

Blue 2: Got it.

Red 3: I am in position. What is the time for the enemy force field to come down, Red 1?

Red 1: The force field will be dropping in 3.75 seconds. Red 3, you need to move east another 2 meters or you might miss someone jumping down with Force Speed.

Red 3: Got it.

(3.75 seconds later)

Red 3: AE blind in! Wait, one of their guy just broke it with CC breaker. Blue 2, it's all you!

Blue 2: Leave it to me!

(Blue 2 stuns the guy who CC break)

Voidstar announcer: Unauthorized Armments detected!

(Opposing team quits)

Red leader: Well done guys. Another step closer to galactic domination! Soon the server will be ours!

 

In reality, whoever blinded you is just a very good player doing what he's supposed to do. Then again, I could be wrong. Maybe the above is really what happens each time a PUG gets steamrolled by a premade.

[ShadowOfVey]

People need to stop imagining premades are always out refining their ways to steamroll PUGs with their Alpha-Omega 3 plan. Never mind that if you're constantly steamrolling people you really wouldn't need to refine your killer plan at all anyway. The time where I actually communicated with the top premade on Alderran we did the double Corellian gambit followed by the Prothemeus Protocol. Wait that never actually happened. Actually the leader of the premade sent me a tell: "can you defend snow?" and I say sure and that's about the only thing I heard from them in the whole game, and it was certainly a good plan compared to NOT defending snow.

 

I mean what the heck does play like a team mean? Do you regularly abandon your team and/or objectives to rack up numbers? If so the problem goes way beyond premades.

 

Haha yeah no kidding. 99% of my premades are like "Hey, wanna queue" "sure" "I'll take west you get mid" "k"

 

We're not on vent in the prep room: "ALRIGHT MEN, WE'VE WORKED ON OUR PLAYS AND I THINK RUNNING BLUE 38 IS OUR BEST THIS GAME, BE READY TO SWITCH TO RED 33 IF NEED BE AND THE WET DUCK FLIES LOW AT NIGHT! BREAK!"

[arkzehhh]

Haha yeah no kidding. 99% of my premades are like "Hey, wanna queue" "sure" "I'll take west you get mid" "k"

 

We're not on vent in the prep room: "ALRIGHT MEN, WE'VE WORKED ON OUR PLAYS AND I THINK RUNNING BLUE 38 IS OUR BEST THIS GAME, BE READY TO SWITCH TO RED 33 IF NEED BE AND THE WET DUCK FLIES LOW AT NIGHT! BREAK!"

 

Lol'd.

[Metalmac]

Look ignoring that 99.9999999999% of the problem is that PREMADES ARE IN FULL WAR HERO GEAR

 

while the PUG is in recruit or at best BM gear. THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH PREMADES.

 

A Premade would not lose unless the blind are controlling the toon and even then blind button pushing will kill some.

 

When gear is the issuse the PREMADE IGNORES THIS FACT. Why? Well obviously they want to kill PUGS.

 

This is why you see Premades that see another Premade and they all drop group 2 minute after the War Zone starts.

 

Premades do not want a fair fight they want to steamroll PuGs.

[kuzoh]

I call shennigans on this one, purely because the current matchmaking is random, sometimes you get premades on your side sometimes you don't.

 

it all comes out in the wash.

 

Not if the pool of players in the queue is sufficiently small, which is the situation many servers are in now, and why people are calling for either server merges or cross server warzones. Many nights I've repeatedly queued into the same republic team of 8 players who absolutely demolish due to better gear and better coordination. I have no problem with premades, they just need to fix the core issue (which is single server pvp queue).

[Isislol]

Not if the pool of players in the queue is sufficiently small, which is the situation many servers are in now, and why people are calling for either server merges or cross server warzones. Many nights I've repeatedly queued into the same republic team of 8 players who absolutely demolish due to better gear and better coordination. I have no problem with premades, they just need to fix the core issue (which is single server pvp queue).

 

 

This.

On low pop servers you will play every game vs same republic premade that outgear you by a mile. Premades should be playing other premades, not random undergeared pugs.

[V-Serp]

This.

On low pop servers you will play every game vs same republic premade that outgear you by a mile. Premades should be playing other premades, not random undergeared pugs.

 

That's not true. Even in a high pop server like The Fatman it usually matches premades vs PUGs. Usually 2 premades against a full PUG. There's another thread somewhere that discusses how premades are being jumped to the front of the queue, while PUGs are just left on the sidelines.

 

It does seem like the queue system prefers to match PUGs against premades at least to me. I've extensively run premades of my own, and then when my guild died because rateds were pulled from 1.2, I extensively solo queued while keeping tabs on friends lists and /who to see the games that were going on.

 

The only times it seems to match PUG vs PUG is if there are no premades queuing.

[Hasdrabul]

One thing I noticed, is that NO ONE COMPLAINS when that person is queued with a very good, well known PREMADE team. Edited May 19, 2012 by Hasdrabul

[Isislol]

One thing I noticed, is that NO ONE COMPLAINS with they are with a very good, well known PREMADE team.

 

 

Only people that like getting in WZs with good premades are bads or people who still need comms for gear. I mean how fun can it be to faceroll random pugs game after game after game? I'm not talking about premades with 4 guildies who decided to play few WZs together, I'm talking about real premades that know what they doing and farm valor for 6 hours every night.

[V-Serp]

One thing I noticed, is that NO ONE COMPLAINS when that person is queued with a very good, well known PREMADE team.

 

I do, which just kills your argument and credibility. I drop plenty of times when I'm solo queuing and get stuck with a premade. If I wanted to play with a premade I'd just join an active premade guild and queue with them, not solo queue. A lot of PUGs absolutely despise premades, because so many premades are arrogant and don't understand how to play as a team, but also aren't good enough to actually carry the game by themselves either. Most PUGs don't want to put much effort in when a premade will vote each other MVP and talk down to them no matter what happens.

 

At least on the Fatman, a lot of the time solo Republic PUGs are better than premade Republic groups. I'm sure the Imps feel the same way, but they have 2-3 good premade groups, but from what I hear from Imps and from what I know from my own Imp toons, they exhibit that negative behavior I mentioned above, so it wouldn't surprise me if most Imps don't want to group with them either.

 

And as a general piece of advice, you should almost never use a universal. All it takes is one example to disprove it. And then you look rather foolish.