Griefing: Everyone's Problem

[Roccobb]

As I understand, Corpse Camping typically occurs in PvP when a victim dies, and others do not allow them to respawn, or kill them in place repeatedly.

 

Bioware has at least two methods to allow Respawning, so this part is restricted. And in many cases, there are two places to respawn, so Camping is made more difficult. Amd some stations do have guards, so this is also a preventive measure. And they made most PvE areas quite safe.

 

But Griefers will find a way, and manage to PK someone they Flagged via Plague bug or other method, and chase the victim to the Med Station, and continue to kill them there repeatedly. As least, this seems like Griefing to me.

 

I believe I typed out on what, page 2 or 3 of this thread my issues I had with corpse camping. But it is not griefing, as per the response from CS I got when I reported it. Others have gotten a different response. So hopefully I just had a very stupid CS respond to me. At least that is what I truly hope it was. Just somebody too lazy or too stupid to do their job.

[Elhanan]

I believe I typed out on what, page 2 or 3 of this thread my issues I had with corpse camping. But it is not griefing, as per the response from CS I got when I reported it. Others have gotten a different response. So hopefully I just had a very stupid CS respond to me. At least that is what I truly hope it was. Just somebody too lazy or too stupid to do their job.

 

Bsed on the sheer volume of work required alone, I do not believe the GM would fit either decription. But you could resubmit your concern with any docs, and allow the case to be re-examined.

[Deyjarl]

Where did they say that?.

 

It was in within the first month of play, and this discussion isn't worth that much to me to go searching the forums that far back.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Deyjarl

[Elhanan]

A matter of perspective; interesting article looking back on the Event:

 

http://torwars.com/2012/04/25/the-swtor-rakghoul-plague-event-looking-back/

[Distracted]

I'll admit upfront here that I did not read the wall of text, I'm responding to the title & first couple of lines only.

 

Griefing is not everyone's problem. It's only a problem to the people that allow themselves to become victims. With that said, there was a cheap serum available that not only cured the plague, but gave you immunity for several hours.

[Elhanan]

I'll admit upfront here that I did not read the wall of text, I'm responding to the title & first couple of lines only.

 

Griefing is not everyone's problem. It's only a problem to the people that allow themselves to become victims. With that said, there was a cheap serum available that not only cured the plague, but gave you immunity for several hours.

 

Griefing like crime is everyone's problem, even if they are not the perp or victim. It spoils the environment, drives away some of the community while remaining host to the more delinquent, and lowers the overall quality of play for everyone.

 

The article linked in the post above is a rather objective look at the past event; seemed quite insighful to me.

 

And serum was a tad expensive for lowbies, and only lasted until Death. Plague was the gift that kept on giving.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post!

[Distracted]

Griefing like crime is everyone's problem

 

Griefing is nowhere near the same scale as crime. Victims of crime often did not allow it to take place & were given no choice in the matter. Victims of griefing in a computer game are able to avoid such behaviour.

 

Yes, the price of the serum was a little high for lower level characters, but on the same note, 3 seconds of being unable to move at low levels isn't exactly detrimental to their gameplay considering you can go from 1-15 only pressing 1 or 2 buttons.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Distracted

[Elhanan]

Griefing is nowhere near the same scale as crime. Victims of crime often did not allow it to take place & were given no choice in the matter. Victims of griefing in a computer game are able to avoid such behaviour.

 

Yes, the price of the serum was a little high for lower level characters, but on the same note, 3 seconds of being unable to move at low levels isn't exactly detrimental to their gameplay considering you can go from 1-15 only pressing 1 or 2 buttons.

 

Simply because it may be seen by some as a minor infraction and grevience, still makes it an infraction and Griefing.

 

And victims of Griefing often do not allow it or permit it; simply had no choice in the matter. While some victims may have prevented it, so too are some victims of crime (eg; not locking car doors). This does not absolve the theif; does not make the Griefer less guilty.

 

And for each Player, they may have varied reasons for evaluating the harm that Griefing inflicts. In the case of the Plague bug, for some it could be that the Stun effect ruining Group play, shopping, time lost and breaking the RP, the Corpse camping and forced Log to retreat, etc.

[Distracted]

And victims of Griefing often do not allow it or permit it

 

Again, not on the same scale as crime. It doesn't even compare. I understand that you're trying to make a point, but it's a bad analogy.

 

In a computer game not taking preventitive measures is considered to be implied consent unless a form of exploit is used, then it becomes a form of cheating & the person is punished for it (If reported &/or caught).

[Elhanan]

Again, not on the same scale as crime. It doesn't even compare. I understand that you're trying to make a point, but it's a bad analogy.

 

In a computer game not taking preventitive measures is considered to be implied consent unless a form of exploit is used, then it becomes a form of cheating & the person is punished for it (If reported &/or caught).

 

I believe there are many posters that disagree with the entire implied consent thing. There have already been several threads of forced PvP on PvE servers, as well as Griefing because of the Flagging issues among others.

 

Cheating may be Griefing if the intent was to ruin play for others.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Elhanan

[Urael]

The biggest failure on BioWare's part for this event was making it an opt-out system, instead of opt-in. Players who did not want to participate had it forced on them anyway in the form of:

 

1) Purchasing an overpriced vaccine from a limited amount of vendors.

2) The hordes of huddled up players at fleet trying to infect as many others as possible.

3) The above vaccine often bugging and not staying active for the full 6 hours.

 

The plague was funny the first time. Maybe even the 2nd. But by the 10th time, I was done. It was a stupid event in my opinion, mostly because I had to avoid fleet and my normal playing habits or spend another 2k on a vaccine that may or may not work for more than an hour. I would imagine for lower level toons this event was especially tiresome.

 

QFT!

 

Well said!

[Tatebomb]

Thread still going I see. /facepalm

[GreySix]

I believe there amy posters that disagree with the entire implied consent thing. There have already been several threads of forced PvP on PvE servers, as well as Griefing because of the Flagging issues among others.

 

Cheating may be Griefing if the intent was to ruin play for others.

 

Concur. I've noticed that griefers nearly always go after much lower-ranked players who were participating in PvE play. That's the gaming version of a troll.

[Elhanan]

Thread still going I see. /facepalm

 

Ain't it beautiful, esp since we are the 'vocal minority'?

[Tatebomb]

Ain't it beautiful, esp since we are the 'vocal minority'?

 

Yes you are. Still say you weren't griefed but doesn't matter anymore. The event is over and the plague will be soon and you can go back to your single player MMO. BW learned some lessons about how to make the next event better even if they didn't post specifics.

[LightsOn]

Yes you are. Still say you weren't griefed but doesn't matter anymore. The event is over and the plague will be soon and you can go back to your single player MMO. BW learned some lessons about how to make the next event better even if they didn't post specifics.

 

And exactly what did BW learn? I have yet to see one item from them about how to turn the PVP-FLAG-OFF and keep it OFF. They have said they are fixing the PVP-Flag-On-Exploit that's all. Nor have I seen any hint of comment to come about PVE-Pure and OPT-OUT of server wide Forced PVP Events.

 

What you call a single player MMO is not acurate. PVE-Pure players group and do raids, socialize, RP and all other other aspects of the game except we take no joy from causing misery to another player. That doesn't mean there aren't flame-wars or other conflicts we just epeen about gear and boss kills and not about how many L10s we 8v1 in the medical center.

 

PVE+PVP On Demand do all of the above and what any other PVP player does too. So they get EVERYTHING not just 1/2 the pie. But no way would they consider themselves in a single player MMO.

 

One thing totally missing is that there are MANY different play styles. One is not better than another. Each has aspects that can be enjoyable. I for one do not want PVP players to change what they do or how they enjoy the game. I just don't want to be the cannon-fodder for their "fun". There are loads of PVP players already posting that would love to ghank you and 1v1 you or 8v1 you on your PVP server. So, head out for a PVP server and DO THE PVP THERE. Give the the PVE-Pure folks a place to hang out and enjoy our own brand of fun.

 

BW has yet to say one thing about PVE-Pure or PVE Opt Out that means OPT OUT. It may be like Waiting for Godot...

[Tatebomb]

And exactly what did BW learn? I have yet to see one item from them about how to turn the PVP-FLAG-OFF and keep it OFF. They have said they are fixing the PVP-Flag-On-Exploit that's all. Nor have I seen any hint of comment to come about PVE-Pure and OPT-OUT of server wide Forced PVP Events.

 

What you call a single player MMO is not acurate. PVE-Pure players group and do raids, socialize, RP and all other other aspects of the game except we take no joy from causing misery to another player. That doesn't mean there aren't flame-wars or other conflicts we just epeen about gear and boss kills and not about how many L10s we 8v1 in the medical center.

 

PVE+PVP On Demand do all of the above and what any other PVP player does too. So they get EVERYTHING not just 1/2 the pie. But no way would they consider themselves in a single player MMO.

 

One thing totally missing is that there are MANY different play styles. One is not better than another. Each has aspects that can be enjoyable. I for one do not want PVP players to change what they do or how they enjoy the game. I just don't want to be the cannon-fodder for their "fun". There are loads of PVP players already posting that would love to ghank you and 1v1 you or 8v1 you on your PVP server. So, head out for a PVP server and DO THE PVP THERE. Give the the PVE-Pure folks a place to hang out and enjoy our own brand of fun.

 

BW has yet to say one thing about PVE-Pure or PVE Opt Out that means OPT OUT. It may be like Waiting for Godot...

 

Well a couple things. First off I wasn't really talking to you I was talking to OP who plays this game like a single player game. That's how he plays it so good on him.

 

And second you are really gonna sit there and tell me the BW took NOTHING from this event good or bad? I also said that they DIDN'T post anything about any lessons.

[Talarchy]

The rebels camped the vendor and killed every imp who got close, so we all ganked them and took the vendor over.

 

This to me is an intended game mechanic. It is an open PVP area after all. We are also on a PVP server, and one would hope that with that winning combination.... you would actually get some... Oh I don't know..... PVP!

[Tatebomb]

The rebels camped the vendor and killed every imp who got close, so we all ganked them and took the vendor over.

 

This to me is an intended game mechanic. It is an open PVP area after all. We are also on a PVP server, and one would hope that with that winning combination.... you would actually get some... Oh I don't know..... PVP!

 

Cool. However that is not what this thread is really about. It's about(I think anyway) the PvP flagging on PvE servers as a result from the plague. i.e flagged guy infects unflagged guy, flags him as a result and spends the next hour ganking him.

[Dralanna]

Cool. However that is not what this thread is really about. It's about(I think anyway) the PvP flagging on PvE servers as a result from the plague. i.e flagged guy infects unflagged guy, flags him as a result and spends the next hour ganking him.

 

Actually, the thread is about the OPs crusade to rid the MMO world of griefing.... while commendable, it's not really possible. He is terrified of being griefed and sees griefing in every inconvenience. Since he's never played any other MMOs, he doesn't really comprehend what true griefing is, and how rare it really is.

 

Personally, I've played MMOs since UO launched in 97 and can honestly say I've been a victim of a real griefer maybe twice in all that time. It helps that I've played on PvE servers whenever available... but still, this fear of griefing is unwarranted.

[Tatebomb]

Actually, the thread is about the OPs crusade to rid the MMO world of griefing.... while commendable, it's not really possible. He is terrified of being griefed and sees griefing in every inconvenience. Since he's never played any other MMOs, he doesn't really comprehend what true griefing is, and how rare it really is.

 

Personally, I've played MMOs since UO launched in 97 and can honestly say I've been a victim of a real griefer maybe twice in all that time. It helps that I've played on PvE servers whenever available... but still, this fear of griefing is unwarranted.

 

you're right he lead with end all griefing but that wasn't really what he was after IMO. He wanted BW to say he was griefed and to apologize/prevent it from ever happening again and lead with griefing is bad to gain some support since he was getting crushed in the last thread. I also agree with you OP has no clue what it means to be griefed. To him any inconvenience = grief. And since a lot of these guys have only the event as a frame of reference the thread turned into that.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Tatebomb

[Elhanan]

Actually, the thread is about the OPs crusade to rid the MMO world of griefing.... while commendable, it's not really possible. He is terrified of being griefed and sees griefing in every inconvenience. Since he's never played any other MMOs, he doesn't really comprehend what true griefing is, and how rare it really is.

 

Personally, I've played MMOs since UO launched in 97 and can honestly say I've been a victim of a real griefer maybe twice in all that time. It helps that I've played on PvE servers whenever available... but still, this fear of griefing is unwarranted.

 

heh! Assume what you will; simply wish to see Griefing end in this early stage of the game before it grows into something worse: acceptable.

 

And from what I gather, Griefing aided to the decline of UO as the pillar of MMORPG's, as well as other games less focused on RP. Hope the cycle ends with them.

[Dralanna]

heh! Assume what you will; simply wish to see Griefing end in this early stage of the game before it grows into something worse: acceptable.

 

Not really an assumption... more like deductive reasoning. Your fear of griefing is plain to see. Griefing will never end; as long as there are people that thrive on the misery of others it will exist. That said, this game has a much griefing as any other MMO that I've played in the last several years... very little.

 

And from what I gather, Griefing aided to the decline of UO as the pillar of MMORPG's, as well as other games less focused on RP. Hope the cycle ends with them.

 

You couldn't be more wrong about UO.... UO declined due to progress. EQ came out and UO's numbers declined drastically. However, the fact that UO peaked at about 250k subscribers and had about 100k subscribers in 2009, 12 years after it came out, is a testament to how successful the game was.

 

Not sure how the game changed, but I can say when I left in 99 (when EQ came out), there was almost no protection from griefers in the game, and in the 2 years I played I had never been griefed. So whether that's a testament to luck, my ability to avoid griefing, or the rarity of griefing I cannot say... but I suspect it's due to rarity.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Dralanna

[Tatebomb]

heh! Assume what you will; simply wish to see Griefing end in this early stage of the game before it grows into something worse: acceptable.

 

And from what I gather, Griefing aided to the decline of UO as the pillar of MMORPG's, as well as other games less focused on RP. Hope the cycle ends with them.

 

From what you "gather"? You've said yourself this is your first MMO. Where did you "gather" this info?

[Mookind]

Yea I felt bad for the pubs

 

None of the 50s were helping them. A bunch of lowbies getting camped by a group of 50s doing the world bosses on the last night. Funny tho

 

World PvP is fail when you have huge faction imbalance. That is why i rolled a PvE server. Yet bioware manages to make it a problem anyway.