Yup i'm done healing.

[RuQu]

Don't worry. If we all work together, we can end lag in our lifetime.

 

LFM Raid on Physics?

[XtremJedi]

*casts Wormhole Communication Conduit*

 

What? It's a sci-fi game with jedi in it after all....

 

X

[Masturomenos]

People who think healing is bad are the ones whos first mmo is swtor.

 

People who know healing is broken are everyone whos ever played any mmo before swtor.

 

People who got no clue *** their doing is swtor devs.

 

Healing is bad to new players and broken to experienced one. Bioware get a clue serously you are becoming the biggest failure in ur industry. U have people who are willing to point it out to u on the forums and u still dont listen. Just do the exact opposite of what u have done so far and ull do beter then anything you have thought of yourselves.

 

Idk how bioware made a team of the worst devs in the history of mmos and thought this would turnout well.

 

Just for once try to do what the community asks of you. Buff healing. Give us cross que and faction transfers now not early summer (which mean who knows) and communicate with us on a daily basis. Since doing the opposite of what we want, being secretive and not communicating has made u the joke of the mmo market how about u try something new? I mean how many times are u going to keep making the same mistakes?

[Bolo_Yeung]

Hello

I got into game first time after 1.2 , played a little... well, practically can't heal without being interrupted in PvP, PvE similar - longer encounters = Force drain and death....

I guess that "golden year" rule in MMO (severely imbalanced, close to first year after release) applies here as well.

 

PS. This game should be called "Stun Wars"

[wavyhill]

Some day I'll learn to stop making posts at the end of the week when I'm going to be busy all weekend.

 

Unless you're referring specifically to combat medics and their ammo usage, please provide a link showing what dev posted this and when.

 

From http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-march-23rd-2012

 

After considerable testing, we're more confident than ever that all healing roles are both closer to target performance and closer to one another than ever before, leading to a much tighter balance on end game content

Note how he talks about 'role' and only mentions Commandos offhandedly. Also note how he specifically mentions that endgame content was the focal point of the nerf.

 

So we either accept that rational as the method behind their madness or we believe in wild speculation and conjecture instead. I know which I prefer, however pigheaded it may seem.

 

 

They're fantastic on their own and if you read what he said earlier, they're just too good when paired with other players. Either way, his post wasn't meant to QQ on tanks. He was simply stating that "tanking in pvp" exacerbates the issue of healers being unkillable.

Depends on what your definition of "on their own" is. 1v1 tanks are ok but, as I've stated, 1v1 doesn't matter in a team game. I define "on their own" to mean queuing solo, where tanks are very marginalized. Guard is a death sentence without a healer around and without autobalancing and the like it can be very easy to get tossed around between both extremes if you're actually trying to be a tank instead of a dps class with better armor.

 

Sorry, but throughput is throughput. 1500 DPS is still 1500 DPS, but when you take 1500 HPS and turn it into 750 HPS, how is that balanced? Healers don't have "burst" in case you missed the memo. We heal in a (relatively) steady stream even including our "oh ****" buttons, and DPS players have their insane amounts of burst that levels out to 1500 dps. How are we supposed to keep up with that? Zergfests where DPS is king is not a good game design, pal.

Do try to pay attention, I wasn't trying to say that the magnitude of the nerf was justified. Merely that the comparison that was put forth was flawed and not relevant to the issue at hand. Not all throughput is as valuable as the damage/time or heal/time numbers would imply. A 10k damage ability on a 20s cd is far more valuable than a 20s dot that tics for 1500 damage every 3s on the same 20s cd. This is plain and obvious for everyone to see, despite both hypothetical abilities delivering the same damage over time.

 

As if resolve was hard to understand in the first place. He posted a simple "in a nutshell" explanation and you ripped it apart. Sorry, but simplification is sometimes best, especially when you're trying to get a point across. That's not even the point of what he said: if you're stunned long enough for your resolve bar to fill up, you're either already dead or at a point where you'll never recover. With the overabundance of CC in this game, this system needs to be adjusted.

What you call simplification I call hyperbole for the sake of drama, something that has no bloody place in such a discussion.

 

Personally the only adjustment I'd like to see to resolve is for breakable CC like mez to not generate it's full amount of resolve all at once. Instead I'd like to see resolve tic upwards after application so that you only gain an amount of resolve commensurate to the length of time you were CC'd before some idiot broke it with a careless AoE.

 

As a combat medic in Columi/Rakata gear, some of my largest crits are for 5.5k. In recruit gear, I'm lucky to get a heal over 3.5k in pvp combat. When dps can hit me for a much larger portion of my health in a much shorter amount of time, how is that balanced? Penalizing healers just for playing as a healer is not cool.

Sigh, another false comparison. Comparing gear sets from totally different tiers with completely different stat budgets is a vaguely amusing mistake at the very best. Pre-1.2 it was utterly trivial to put up largely similar numbers in Champion/Battlemaster (or more likely, Champion/Rakata) gear.

 

 

Basically. If they were to revert to pre-1.2 PvP, guard / taunt WOULD need to be adjusted. I don't want to be an unstoppable juggernaut of a healer if I were to run around as a tank / healer combo again. 50% transfer is just to good, make the split 65/35% (or in that area) and reduce taunt to 20-25% reduction. I say again, healer / tank combo was just ridiculously good and there is no denying it. This is coming from a healer.

 

In fact, post-1.2, those minor nerfs to pvp tanking would make things MUCH more balanced.

Adjusting is different to wholesale nerfing that would only serve to devalue an entire combat role. The thing you're advocating for tanks is the exact same kind of sledgehammer that healers just got clobbered with in 1.2. There are better ways to adjust the extremes of balance without throwing the baby out with the bathwater and making PvP even more of a deathmatch than it already is.

 

For example, they could nerf the base value of Taunt and Guard and then make both of their effects scale with tanking stats like defense, absorb, and shield. They could make it so that you have to be in the tanking stance to use Taunt. They could give Assassins/Shadows and PTs/Vanguards more ally support abilities like Intercede. They could increase the damage split from Guard to something like 50/70 but also allow Guard damage to be mitigated by defensive stats. And on and on.

 

I feel that ideal composition for a PvP team should be to have an even balance between dps classes and support classes, with a tank being support on par with a healer. I believe the best way to achieve this is to roll back many of the healing nerfs from 1.2, nerf the bleeding edge of the outlier dps classes, and adjust tanking mechanics so that there is incentive to spec and play a team damage reduction role instead of the heavy armor dps role they find themselves in now.

 

As an aside, apart from huttball, the current WZs favor defense far too much. They really should be adjusted so that either A) defense isn't so damn easy or B) so that offense plays more of a role in the objectives. Civil War especially could benefit from a mechanic where the team that has the fewest number of turrets gets a temp buff one or two of them can pick up that drastically increases their damage so long as they remain the underdog. Warhammer called them Murderballs, and they could be quite effective at breaking objective stalemates.

 

It would also be nice to have at least one WZ where the entire objective was to kick the ever-loving hell out of each other

It would also be

Edited May 1, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comment

[Masturomenos]

I dont know what the devs r doing but before anything else they need to start communicating. All we have is thousands of forum posts and no responses. Patches notes need to be put up earlier and the pts tested earlier.

 

Every issue this game has could have been less of an issue if the ptr did what a ptr is supposed to do. The fact we cant test anything properly leads us to where we are now playin a untested improperly changed game.

 

Healing is broken a healer to make a game fun for all players should be able to keep atleast 3 to 4 people up. When ranked comes out if teams dont consist of 2 tanks 2 heals and 4 dps the balance is not right. Sure some teams may have different comps but if done right that should be the balance.

 

2 healers hould be able to keep up thei teams thru burst and extended aoe damage. Right now a healer cant even keep themselves and another person up if they are being focused without wasting all resources. Because of that ttk is shorter and everyone wants to play a tank since they livethe longest. People want long smart fun matches not gibfests.

 

Look at the game bioware the reason classes are bing droped for the 2 or 3 viable choices is because you made horrible changes. Youd gain subs if you just reverted nrfs from pre 1.2 witout coming up with anythin else new.

 

Stop trying to make new stuff. There are areas perfected in other games u needto copy. If you are building a car its ok to use tires even thou everyone else does u dont need to reinven the wheel just copy it.

[oredith]

I dont know what the devs r doing but before anything else they need to start communicating. All we have is thousands of forum posts and no responses. Patches notes need to be put up earlier and the pts tested earlier.

 

Every issue this game has could have been less of an issue if the ptr did what a ptr is supposed to do. The fact we cant test anything properly leads us to where we are now playin a untested improperly changed game.

 

Healing is broken a healer to make a game fun for all players should be able to keep atleast 3 to 4 people up. When ranked comes out if teams dont consist of 2 tanks 2 heals and 4 dps the balance is not right. Sure some teams may have different comps but if done right that should be the balance.

 

2 healers hould be able to keep up thei teams thru burst and extended aoe damage. Right now a healer cant even keep themselves and another person up if they are being focused without wasting all resources. Because of that ttk is shorter and everyone wants to play a tank since they livethe longest. People want long smart fun matches not gibfests.

 

Look at the game bioware the reason classes are bing droped for the 2 or 3 viable choices is because you made horrible changes. Youd gain subs if you just reverted nrfs from pre 1.2 witout coming up with anythin else new.

 

Stop trying to make new stuff. There are areas perfected in other games u needto copy. If you are building a car its ok to use tires even thou everyone else does u dont need to reinven the wheel just copy it.

 

This is a pretty good example of why BW has a difficult road ahead. I'm not saying they're doing an OK job given the difficult task, far from, but this is the same problem that plagues every MMO.

 

the game is very VERY different between PvE and PvP.

 

it's pretty obvious (to me) that BW attempted to address both of the problems, but drastically simplifying the healer models, so that they can eliminate as much skill as possible, so that they can balance the numbers easier.

 

it's like a game of paper, rock, scissors - except in a MMO, what you have are:

 

Paper

• aramid / carbonfiber weave
  
• heavy burlap
  
• museum grade paper
  
• etc

 

Rock

• diamond
  
• obsidian
  
• jade
  
• etc

 

Scissors

• penny cutting sheers
  
• poultry cutters
  
• kids safe cutters
  
• etc

 

you get the idea. the idea is that there's some sort of balance between each set, but each set has subsets that can break the paper->rock->scissors pattern. BW is dumbing it down so that the variations no longer exist.

 

good for game balance, but bad for player choices/freedom (and enjoyment)

[Masturomenos]

Another issue bioware created was not allowing healers to do anything but healing. Atleast if say u play a disc priest evn if they nerf your healing u can still dps as smite spec, u can dispell and cleanse (since it matters in wow, even thou its useful in this game in pvp its not a piority and u can do just as well nevr cleansing as u would cleansing) you can mana drain or set up cc chains you can b useful and fill other roles. Right now take a bh healer for example they got their healing nerfed and have become useless because the one role they filled cannot be done as well or as easy as another healer. Sorcs are useful and good if never focused u can stay back and heal. Ops hae hots and are less visible to the enemy and can blanket a group and run away. Bh heals are just horrible even if not focused thy cannot heal more then 7 casts without cds up and draining their resources. Sorcs need a survivability buff. Ops need to be able to cast diagnostic scan on the move. Bh heals need to get their heat back until then theyll never be fixed. Healers all of them need more reasons to do somethingother then heal, cleanse needs to become inportant u should be able to help someone by cleansing them as much as it would help to heal them. As a healer you have more buttons to push for dps as u do healing.

 

People dont want to die thats y they stack expertise and roll tank toons. Endurance is the best stat for every class and spec in this game. I dont care what anyone says when u have hp pools this low 200 of a primary stat will not sav u as much as 2k more hp will. People have more fun playin a match that ends at the last second win or lose that had 5 deaths bewteen both teams and people got a chance t use all their abilities. No one likes matches that are lost causes ithin the first 2 minutes because one team has more tanks and the dps team cant stay alive because healers wont que or are not useful. No one wants to rez, die, rez, die and get no chance to do anything but buff up then die.

 

Right now u dont last long enuff to use more then 4 or 5 abilities befre u die or kill the other person. Ttk is too short its not fun. Wzs are lopsided the end is always 90% to 10% when people want a 60% to 40% win/loss. Its all due to healing being underpowered. People want to be able to cc and dps and manuever to win and feel like they accomplished something. Win or lose when all it takes is 2 cds and 3 abilities the game is boring. New players should lose when undergeared to a geared player but not strictly becuse of gear they should be able to go thru all their moves even if they lose not get 3 shot cause they are undergeared.

 

Bioware made a statement saying u need expertise to lower ttk. Thats just plain dumb and offensive. The pvp cmmunity knows that. Bioware still beleives its us lol. Its not us its them and the way they designed the game. Even the xpertise changes were done backwards. Dps expertise should scale the least not the most healing and damage reduction should be worth more then dps is for expertise. That alone would fix ttk. Bioware contradicts themseleves with their changes they nerf classes to lower burst then buff damage. They use stupid metrics when everyone knows in pvp metrics mean nothing. We need a pvp dev who actually pvps not a number cruncher.

 

As a bh id rather do 100k haling and save peopl thru burst and mutliple attackers then do 500k healing that saved no one.

 

Step 1 and this is the only step that matters right now is FIXING THE PTR so we can actually test and tune changes. Bioware thinkgs taking a guy in greens vs a guy in purples and then using the numbers to balance them rathr then taking all the clsses puttin them in equal gear levels and then basing changs on a controlled testing enviroment. Until they fix the tests the results as we see now in 1.2 speak for themselevs. Broken across the board.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Masturomenos

[justdodd]

 

 

From http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-march-23rd-2012

 

 

Note how he talks about 'role' and only mentions Commandos offhandedly. Also note how he specifically mentions that endgame content was the focal point of the nerf.

 

So we either accept that rational as the method behind their madness or we believe in wild speculation and conjecture instead. I know which I prefer, however pigheaded it may seem.

 

GZ has no basis for his metrics (especially when he says that commandos are now on par with other healers). It has been proven on multiple occasions (check out posts by RuQu, check out other threads detailing this assertion) that combat medics are statistically the worst healing class in the game.

 

As for your other point, I won't believe what GZ says until he actually PROVIDES his metrics. Especially when other players are stating the opposite and actually proving what they are saying through (GASP!) mathematics and metrics.

 

 

Depends on what your definition of "on their own" is. 1v1 tanks are ok but, as I've stated, 1v1 doesn't matter in a team game. I define "on their own" to mean queuing solo, where tanks are very marginalized. Guard is a death sentence without a healer around and without autobalancing and the like it can be very easy to get tossed around between both extremes if you're actually trying to be a tank instead of a dps class with better armor.

 

 

Yes, solo queueing.

 

Do try to pay attention, I wasn't trying to say that the magnitude of the nerf was justified.

 

Great. What I'm saying is the magnitude of the nerf wasn't justified.

 

What you call simplification I call hyperbole for the sake of drama, something that has no bloody place in such a discussion.

 

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

-Einstein

 

Sigh, another false comparison. Comparing gear sets from totally different tiers with completely different stat budgets is a vaguely amusing mistake at the very best. Pre-1.2 it was utterly trivial to put up largely similar numbers in Champion/Battlemaster (or more likely, Champion/Rakata) gear.

 

Actually, Recruit gear is considered the equivalent to Columi gear. This is because it is vastly superior to Champion gear in terms of expertise. Although Recruit gear has a rating of 128 and Columi has a rating of 136. Even though champion is 136, it is still inferior to Recruit gear for pvp.

 

That also wasn't the argument. The argument is that damage (particularly sentinels/marauders) can utterly erase the healing that is put up. This is caused by their production of larger numbers, exacerbated by fact that they their damage more quickly than is healable.

 

Adjusting is different to wholesale nerfing that would only serve to devalue an entire combat role. The thing you're advocating for tanks is the exact same kind of sledgehammer that healers just got clobbered with in 1.2.

 

Sorry, but the adjustments I suggested are NOTHING like the nerfs that healers - particularly combat medics - were handed. We were handed heavy nerfs to our benefit from expertise and our resource management IN ADDITION to minor nerfs similar to the ones I suggested.

 

 

 

For example, they could nerf the base value of Taunt and Guard and then make both of their effects scale with tanking stats like defense, absorb, and shield. They could make it so that you have to be in the tanking stance to use Taunt. They could give Assassins/Shadows and PTs/Vanguards more ally support abilities like Intercede. They could increase the damage split from Guard to something like 50/70 but also allow Guard damage to be mitigated by defensive stats. And on and on.

 

No, sorry, those nerfs are too ham-fisted and heavy-handed. Allow me to suggest something very similar to what you suggest while still picking apart every word you say.

Edited May 1, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comment quote/insult

[Sprigum]

When I saw your post this is what I actually read, Wavyhill. I do wish you'd debate in a more civilized manner instead of resorting to trying to belittle our intelligence. It's obvious you're building your arguments on fallacy.

 

I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank I'm a Tank

 

 

 

Stop hiding behind this false facade while you talk about healing mechanics. Some basic misconceptions you're not understanding.

 

Class A can beat Class B in 1v1.

Class A can beat Class C in 1v1.

Class D can beat Class E in 1v1.

Class D can beat Class C in 1v1.

 

In a fight where group one's composition is: AADD and Group two's composition is: BCCE - Who wins?

 

See the point? There is a transitive property at work here. It's easy to understand. 1v1 is extremely relevant, because when you merge classes the individual characteristics of said class aren't completely different. This isn't chemistry where hydrogen gas and Oxide make water.

 

You're basically assuming that group A or B has tanks, thus further balancing the mechanics. No single role should be required for balance to be achieved.

 

Much the same as 1v1, DPS and overall throughput is HUGELY important to not only a single pvp encounter, but also to the overall match performance. If I can land 800-1 mil heals every game on people don't you think that there would therefore HAVE to be a lot less deaths? There is an equilibrium here, understand it.

 

Don't cite some ridiculous example of 10k instant damage abilities. Don't cite anything but abilities present in game, and then once you have compare them with healing throughput. Ahh, there's the rub.

 

Throughput is relevant because it represents a best case scenario, guess what? The best case scenario for healing is lower than that for a single DPS. Problem? You bet. That's a significant balance issue. If they can get a stun on me while my CC breaker is unavailable it's pretty much over. Of course if I'm guarded I'm basically immortal, but more on that later.

 

Tanks can do 1000 DPS, plus Guard, plus taunt, plus DMG reduction CDs, plus CC and effectively double an allies EHP permanently.

 

Healers can do about 800-1000 HPS in a PvP environment, plus some dispels, plus CC.

 

DPS can do anywhere from 1200-1600 DPS in a PvP environment, plus dispels, plus CC, plus any utility they might additionally offer: such as Sniper shield, marauder CDs, mortal strike.

 

Notice the healer can do about 1 thing, and that's heal. Cool, whatever. Now make it so I can at least heal as well as everyone else can DPS.

 

In terms of usefulness it would appear to be that a heavily DPS/Tank based team would likely have more EHP/DPS/Utility than an evenly balanced team. Because let's face it. NOTHING can stop two or three decent DPS, you will die, and there's no amount of healing that can save you through focus fire.

 

Just because in a PuG warzone healing seems okay because of lack of focus fire, and group PvP mechanics in no way shape or form illustrates that rated WZ will have any semblance of balance.

 

In a nutshell the problem is this:

 

- Healers do too little healing in PvP environments, with no notable utility or mechanics to fall back on to be useful to the team. We heal and that's it, and we can't even do that effectively.

 

Why I believe this occurs:

 

- Tanks offer too much mitigation and to keep gameplay from going into OMG NOTHING DIES, the developers have decided that healers should be marginalized the most.

 

 

Remove trauma, nerf guard and taunt to 50% total reduction on a PTR (with max level champion level transfers) and we'll see what happens. Really. I think it'll make for a more positive game play experience for everyone.

Edited May 1, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comment

[Masturomenos]

Your last sentence is the biggest issue if this game wll have a future. Untl the ptr is fixed everything will remain broken.

 

Healers need buffs or pvp will never be fun and everyone who is serious about it will need a tank toon. When ranked wzs come out evryone who thinks that healing is bearable will realize its broken. Just because ur premade can go against low geared pugs and you can put out ok healing ad still have a hard time enjoying it does not mean when u face another premade you wll be ok.

 

As it stands now if ranked wzs came out and nothing changed any team that is going to be serious about rating will run 4 tanks and 4 ranged dps. Otherwise you will lose. Healing as it stands is a bad option to take over another tank or ranged dps. Even melee dps which really now is tanks since al viable melee dps roles are also worthless when compared to a tank is not worth taking. Ranged dps an tanks will be what wins no other team will no matter how much some people think that healin and pure melee dps will matter.

 

Bioware tried it their way with metrics and all weve seen as a result is a loss of subs. There are no more excuses bioware and if youve run out of excuses with your playerbase then your boss at work is next. So be vague make dumb changes ruin a good thing and forget about keeping players worry about keeping your jobs. The future is here for u now bioware you literally have patch 1.3 to make the game a success or failure and if you dont fix what youve done well then yourgoing to be the only one to blame. Unless of course it took 500 million and half a decade to make rift with lightsabers. The longer it takes before we see patch notes means the less time well have on ptr. Bioware you need to get a ptr with transfers up asap. With clas changes that dont nerf tanks and buff dps. You need to bring up healers and pure melee dps and redo what is in game. Tanks need to be strong but not because everyone is weak but because you designed them well. Nerfing and buffng every patch to keep one person happy and make anothr angry while thegames desing is still crap underneath it all will not help. We need ilum back too people paid for 5 zones and were at 4 right now. Stop trying to do what u think and start doing what we say.

 

As it stands now u have less subs and less zones then u did 4 months ago forget the rest and please tell us how your metrics tell you what ur doing is working as intended?

Edited May 1, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Officer_Nasty]

I have to say, I started a Sage Healer post 1.2 and I have no problem with it. I am effective in PvE and PvP, almost always keeping people alive without worrying about cool-downs or interrupts. I see no problem with the Seer Sage. It is my first time ever healing and I almost always lead the board in PvP healing, so I don't get what all the fuss is about.

[justdodd]

I have to say, I started a Sage Healer post 1.2 and I have no problem with it. I am effective in PvE and PvP, almost always keeping people alive without worrying about cool-downs or interrupts. I see no problem with the Seer Sage. It is my first time ever healing and I almost always lead the board in PvP healing, so I don't get what all the fuss is about.

 

So... how are you doing in HM Denova and against premade pvp groups?

[Elkirin]

IMHO,

 

Healing is not impossible, it is something I do for the guild but I do not bother healing Pugs at all anymore.

 

Healing is no longer fun for myself, I rarely play my healer now and judging by their posts, some feel the same way.

 

On my new merc main char, Healers are my primary PvP targets, it is easy to counter long cast healing if you recognise what the healer is about to do.

 

All the BS and counter posts in the world do not change the above, they are my opinions, feel free to post your own.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Elkirin

[Masturomenos]

I have to say, I started a Sage Healer post 1.2 and I have no problem with it. I am effective in PvE and PvP, almost always keeping people alive without worrying about cool-downs or interrupts. I see no problem with the Seer Sage. It is my first time ever healing and I almost always lead the board in PvP healing, so I don't get what all the fuss is about.

 

First off leaderboards mean nothing especially against pugs. If they did then bh heals need a 300% buff to catch the number a bad sorc or op can do. You can lead the board healing the damage u do to urself in a corner and never heal another person as a sage. Healing is an art u get btter the less u heal but still accomplish the same goal as you did the match before healing for more. Just because numbrs are high doesnt mean u did ur job whatsoever.

[Sprigum]

I have to say, I started a Sage Healer post 1.2 and I have no problem with it. I am effective in PvE and PvP, almost always keeping people alive without worrying about cool-downs or interrupts. I see no problem with the Seer Sage. It is my first time ever healing and I almost always lead the board in PvP healing, so I don't get what all the fuss is about.

 

Not to attack you, but unless you're at level cap and doing HM Denova or PvP then I'm not really interested in your opinion of the healing balance in this game.

 

PvE is basically fine, although I will say that it really seems like the difference in mechanics puts a lot more stress on healers than the DPS. DPS continue to derp through the fight as always while I need to do twice the amount of healing and worry about new dispellable debuffs (with a terrible UI).

 

Anyone who was doing NM before 1.2 will tell you that the difference between HM and NM was basically just a bit chunk of healing and that's pretty much it.

 

 

IMHO,

 

Healing is not impossible, it is something I do for the guild but I do not bother healing Pugs at all anymore.

 

Healing is no longer fun for myself, I rarely play my healer now and judging by their posts, some feel the same way.

 

On my new merc main char, Healers are my primary PvP targets, it is easy to counter long cast healing if you recognise what the healer is about to do.

 

All the BS and counter posts in the world do not change the above, they are my opinions, feel free to post your own.

 

Agreed. Healing is this game has got to be the most basic hamfisted method I've ever seen. You have 4 heals, 3 of which are single target with various energy/heat/ammo/force costs, while one is a very mild AoE heal. Oh wow Bioware, how long did it take to develop those abilities? 5 minutes? 15 tops I say.

 

Healers have to do the most with the fewest abilities and with the most drawbacks against us. We're all very suceptible to interrupts, which are all too common in this game. We have no cooldowns to deal with spike DMG and certainly aren't packing anywhere near the toolset that a more traditional MMO healer does.

 

Yeah it can be done, with a boat load of effort, and even then you feel very marginal. It's very difficult to feel motivated when you're doing your absolute best and it's just barely good enough most of the time.

 

 

First off leaderboards mean nothing especially against pugs. If they did then bh heals need a 300% buff to catch the number a bad sorc or op can do. You can lead the board healing the damage u do to urself in a corner and never heal another person as a sage. Healing is an art u get btter the less u heal but still accomplish the same goal as you did the match before healing for more. Just because numbrs are high doesnt mean u did ur job whatsoever.

 

Scoreboards are important, because the game doesn't factor overheal. So all you see is effective healing. Sorcs is always inflated (especially now), because of their force regen ability. But there is a reason Combat medics are generally low, it's because they simply aren't healing as much as everyone else. It takes about 5 minutes watching one play to figure that out.

 

Healing less is NEVER better than healing more. There is no mitigation in this game offered by healers, besides a sorc shield once in awhile.

 

Higher numbers = more effective heals = you're doing your job pretty well. You're making an argument as if doing less damage was a good thing.

 

If you'd said that it didn't matter because of objective based combat then I might have agreed, but to say that less is more is just unfathomable. That's simply a fallacy.

[Masturomenos]

Not when ur healing urself to regain force. Again if leaderbords count bh heals need a 300% buff. Edited May 1, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Bluetickone]

Hardmode EC seems impossible as a CM...sad that this game died with 1.2. Was moderately fun up until that point.

[Vidaar]

Played 3 expansion in WOW as a raiding Healer (Pally, Druid and Disc) so I enjoy the Healer role in an MMO. It is a mistake that MMO designer make that the way to make Healing fun for those that dont like playing Wack-a-Mole is to make it more complex. It's not and frankly either you like healing or you don’t. Players who don’t enjoy Wack-a-Mole will go DPS...sorted.

 

Currently I'm Healing HM Ops in TOR as a Merc. Whilst there is a lot about the gated heat system that makes me want to shake my fist at the sky and scream "WHAT WHERE YOU THINKING!", 1.2 did not break healing it just required some modification. Post 1.2 with the advent of logs I was shocked that I was as far behind the Sorc I was healing 8 mans with that I was. He is someone I have healed along side of in WOW for some time and I know how good he is, however his skill level isnt the 15% better than me that the logs suggested. What I did though was not sit in a dark corner and have a cry or beat my chest on the forums that healing was broken and I was taking my ball and going home, rather I researched what theory crafting was available, spent the week trying new combinations and approaches in PvP and HM FP then came back the next week and improved my output by >30%. Did he still beat me? Do Bears **** in the woods? He's a Sorc they are OP, of course he still beat me, but I caught a long way up and I'll play my arse off until I'll catch him.... and oh how sweet it will feel.

 

Welcome to MMOs. In all roles for all classed there will be a cycle of buffs and nurfs where one class will be OP Gods whilst it's the end of life as we know it for another. Either out heal the opposition though skill in spite of the buff/nurf cycle, roll DPS and enjoy the pew pew or go play Hello Kitty MMO.

 

PS if you do go DPS dont forget to bring your sporebat....we raid at 8 not 9.

[Beyoncia]

Agreed. Healing is this game has got to be the most basic hamfisted method I've ever seen. You have 4 heals, 3 of which are single target with various energy/heat/ammo/force costs, while one is a very mild AoE heal. Oh wow Bioware, how long did it take to develop those abilities? 5 minutes? 15 tops I say.

 

But there is a reason Combat medics are generally low, it's because they simply aren't healing as much as everyone else. It takes about 5 minutes watching one play to figure that out.

I'm absolutly love healing in this game. After 7 years hc raiding in EQ2 and casualy raiding in WoW same time, i feel myself a medic again. You actualy need to heal in swtor, not mindless spam 4-5 spells by cd. Also, this game is about avoiding damage, you can't heal through all crap ppl need to move from. Encounters are nice, atmospheric and some are very heal intensive. Like it.

 

And we have 5 heals(6 if count new cure), you prolly underestimate trauma probe. Most efficient heal in game. It's usualy up to 20% on my heal parce and crits around 900. With 40-50% crit raiting, it's near 6-7k total for just 2 amo. Kolto bomb is also very good.

% # Action Total Heals Average HPS Avg Heal Min Heal Max Heal Crits Crit % Overheal %

32.42% 94 Kolto Bomb 164392 449.2 1748.85 1067 2718 45 47.87% 17.82%

This is my parce from Firebrand\Stormcaller hm.

 

Yes, sometimes CM healing not as much as other class, but it's because we can put trauma probe , use instant bacta infusion and kolto bomb in between( if needed) and bring significant dps same time. Unlike to other healers.

 

Hardmode EC seems impossible as a CM...sad that this game died with 1.2. Was moderately fun up until that point.

It's very posible as CM, i feel sory for sages with limited force pool and long cast big heal. 3 of my heals are instant, 1 have 1.2 sec cast, 2nd-1.6,+ hammershot+ tech override for oh **** moments. Almost endless amo, good cc, nice single target and great aoe dps, good defensive cds, havy armor. Sorry, but i feel myself op. I'm a combat medic, a soldier, not a squishy priest:)

[Sprigum]

I'm absolutly love healing in this game. After 7 years hc raiding in EQ2 and casualy raiding in WoW same time, i feel myself a medic again. You actualy need to heal in swtor, not mindless spam 4-5 spells by cd. Also, this game is about avoiding damage, you can't heal through all crap ppl need to move from. Encounters are nice, atmospheric and some are very heal intensive. Like it.

 

And we have 5 heals(6 if count new cure), you prolly underestimate trauma probe. Most efficient heal in game. It's usualy up to 20% on my heal parce and crits around 900. With 40-50% crit raiting, it's near 6-7k total for just 2 amo. Kolto bomb is also very good.

% # Action Total Heals Average HPS Avg Heal Min Heal Max Heal Crits Crit % Overheal %

32.42% 94 Kolto Bomb 164392 449.2 1748.85 1067 2718 45 47.87% 17.82%

This is my parce from Firebrand\Stormcaller hm.

 

Yes, sometimes CM healing not as much as other class, but it's because we can put trauma probe , use instant bacta infusion and kolto bomb in between( if needed) and bring significant dps same time. Unlike to other healers.

 

 

It's very posible as CM, i feel sory for sages with limited force pool and long cast big heal. 3 of my heals are instant, 1 have 1.2 sec cast, 2nd-1.6,+ hammershot+ tech override for oh **** moments. Almost endless amo, good cc, nice single target and great aoe dps, good defensive cds, havy armor. Sorry, but i feel myself op. I'm a combat medic, a soldier, not a squishy priest:)

 

Sorc can mindlessly pop down a ring on many fights and easily do 250k healing just from the circle, not counting all their other abilities. So in that respect, Kolto bomb is pretty weak. I'm not sure how the Op heal stacks up, because with a Sorc in the group all the time it's rare that I need to lay it down.

 

All we do is mindlessly heal stuff with 4-5 abilities. I'm not sure how you're arriving at this being new and innovative game play. Combine that with a really really bad UI to work with: No click2cast, no large debuff/buff frames. I don't know if you've played an Operative healer, but do you know what it's like trying to keep HoTs stacked on a couple people during a fight?

 

I don't buy into the whole "Needing to avoid damage" that doesn't work in PvP, which is where about 90% of my qualms exist. PvE is fine, all the healers CAN with enough effort get through the content. My biggest problem is the very uninteresting and lackluster mechanics present for healers in these fights. Basically we just dispel something when it comes up and back to healing a tank. None of our heals have any cool mechanics, they aren't smart, and honestly its just rather blah in every respect.

 

Where are our cooldowns? Where is a nice mitigation cooldown for us to put on a tank or group member at a critical moment? Where are our tools besides raw HPS?

 

My raid leader asked me the other day if we had all looked up the strats for the HM Denova fights and I said, "Nope, I bet I heal and stay out of AoE on all of them"

 

Amazing how that works. There is literally nothing more to it for a healer, every fight is the same, some require more healing and some require more avoidance.

 

My big issue is the sad sad sad state of PvP healing. So, I'm not trying to question PvE viability; I acknowledge everyone can do PvE just fine.

 

But what is going to be done to fix PvP?

[Masturomenos]

I dont know what game ur playing but this game is no where near engaging or on the level with haling in wow. Raiding was so easy they nerfed healing to make up for lack of encounter design. Also people cannot cmpare pve to pvp. While healing works in pve and is very easy its the exact opposite in pvp. Pvping as a CM is beyond pointless i dont care how good a player or their gear is no one feels like they accomplished anything at the end of a wz as a CM. Pve wise all healing trees work considering that if your group doesnt stand in aoe, u can dispel on one fight, and can stack or spread out then u easily can beat any level of raid in swtor. The encounters in mario bros was more in depth then any swtor raid atleast i had to jump over the shell and land on it 3 times to kill the boss.

 

Like the poster above said something needs to be done to fix pvp healing. Period. Its broken.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Beyoncia]

I'm not a big fun of pvp, but doing it for dailies or when crafting. I don't have any single pvp item. I'm planig to have some in future tho(ranked wz will be imposible w/o expertise). And i don't have any real problems in pvp. I'm usualy 1st or 2nd in heal parce. PvP is a teamwork. If i have people protecting me, i can heal just fine and be almost immortal.

[Masturomenos]

I'm not a big fun of pvp, but doing it for dailies or when crafting. I don't have any single pvp item. I'm planig to have some in future tho(ranked wz will be imposible w/o expertise). And i don't have any real problems in pvp. I'm usualy 1st or 2nd in heal parce. PvP is a teamwork. If i have people protecting me, i can heal just fine and be almost immortal.

 

Ok thats great u have perfect healing in nightmare modes with no heat issues and u r the best pvper without even using pvp gear. Thats great. Now can we move on to the problems the community has not just talk about how perfect you are. If you are better then anyone and nothing is difficult then you conradict urself above when u say its engaging content and healing model. How bad of a design is it when u are a CM and never have heat issues and how bad is gearing when u always are top of charts without even having 1 peice of pvp gear (which kinda makes no sense since exertise buffs healing done). Somehow ur a CM which before 1.2 couldnt top the charts and ones that did 400k were the best players but now somehow after the nerf you are beating sorcs and ops who have always had much higher numbers then CM healers usually double what a CM does if not triple. Dude common.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Sprigum]

Ok thats great u have perfect healing in nightmare modes with no heat issues and u r the best pvper without even using pvp gear. Thats great. Now can we move on to the problems the community has not just talk about how perfect you are. If you are better then anyone and nothing is difficult then you conradict urself above when u say its engaging content and healing model. How bad of a design is it when u are a CM and never have heat issues and how bad is gearing when u always are top of charts without even having 1 peice of pvp gear (which kinda makes no sense since exertise buffs healing done). Somehow ur a CM which before 1.2 couldnt top the charts and ones that did 400k were the best players but now somehow after the nerf you are beating sorcs and ops who have always had much higher numbers then CM healers usually double what a CM does if not triple. Dude common.

 

If you learned to spell you could probably run for office.

 

But yeah, we all know he's full of it. He's obviously hitting those 4-5 buttons harder than the rest of the community, especially on the PvP side of things.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Sprigum