FigeroMentel Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Well, I took the plunge and decided to try rolling a Jedi for my new character. Having gone through the four Imperial storylines, I was surprised to find that The Empire were really the good guys in this whole thing, and The Republic was a corrupt and evil regime cloaked in a pretty facade. But that was from The Imperial standpoint. I figured being in a Republic storyline would show the shoe on the other foot. After all, you guys are supposed to be the good guys... Almost every single decission I've made so far has been dark side, simply because it is the only sensible option most of the time. What kind of evil, souless monsters work for the jedi council? If someone is suffering, I'm supposed to let them suffer and not interfear. If someone is causing suffering, I'm supposed to welcome him with open arms and not fight him. If someone is being attacked, I'm supposed to stand there, hold hands with them and sing Kumbaya as they get ripped to shreds... Seriously, who are you people and why are you the good guys? I am SO GOING DARKSIDE whenever I get the chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrgil Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Yeah I agree. Jedi being 'goody-two-shoes' is as much a joke as the entire Republic itself. "We strive for peace and mercy" ... "He deserve to die for betraying the Republic, don't send him to jail" "Don't let your emotions control you" ... "I'll kill you all myself" Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edoniltebaun Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 How about some conversation decisions that result in the sith lord / bad guy realizing the error of their ways and turning them to the light side, maybe after whooping their backsides, but still. Sure, there's a couple here and there, but not very many. Of course I find it hilarious that at every turn when playing an inquisitor or warrior, the Jedi always draw their sabers first and tell you it's time to die .... Now I expect that from the Sith that's sort of what Sith do. But that the Jedi are always the ones to jump headlong into a fight is just amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Spoken like a true sith. The force is more than raw power, unfortunately the sith will never quite understand it. It's something you either understand, or don't. Those who don't, fall to the dark side. The consular is about sacrifice, the consular understands that the full power of the force comes through sacrificing oneself. Something a sith could never do, nor comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felioats Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Just wait until you get the LS option to let a Sith hologram teach Rakghouls to use the dark side of the Force. They draw power from their human prisoner, too, which they elicit by butchering innocents in front of him. Because, you know, if you don't let the holo train them, they'll never learn control and they'll stay dark side forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numene Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Almost every single decission I've made so far has been dark side, simply because it is the only sensible option most of the time. What kind of evil, souless monsters work for the jedi council? If someone is suffering, I'm supposed to let them suffer and not interfear. If someone is causing suffering, I'm supposed to welcome him with open arms and not fight him. If someone is being attacked, I'm supposed to stand there, hold hands with them and sing Kumbaya as they get ripped to shreds... Ahh...well done Sith. You clearly have a dark heart and hence you believe you must kill those that are bringing harm to others. These people can be saved, you simply don't have the patience to do so. Now if you want to discuss why the Jedi Order isn't kicking out recruits and masters that are clearly turning to the dark side, that is a topic for another time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FigeroMentel Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Spoken like a true sith. The force is more than raw power, unfortunately the sith will never quite understand it. It's something you either understand, or don't. Those who don't, fall to the dark side. The consular is about sacrifice, the consular understands that the full power of the force comes through sacrificing oneself. Something a sith could never do, nor comprehend. Yes, sacrifice... Only I'm supposed to sacrifice the lives of others for what someone outside the situation considers the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeutschGamer Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Just because the Empire is honest about it being evil doesn't make them the GOOD guys. Democracy (any form of government for that matter) is never perfect, its always flawed. Corruption and inequality will run rampant, power corrupts in whatever government you are. The difference is the Republic tries, and at least strives to be a voice of reason and peace in the galaxy. The Jedi strive to be protectors of the weak and mediators of conflict. Of course certain situations do not allow for this, but as long as their is room to be there will people who will take up these mantles. The Empire does not give people these opportunities period. There is no room to improve or change as the Sith keep the status quo to fit their needs. I will say that many LS and DS choices are flawed and should not be considered moral choices. However, that does not invalidate the idea of 'Greater Good' or the deaths of a few for the many (Mace Windu ignoring the code to kill Sidious, as it was for the Greater Good). Edited April 24, 2012 by DeutschGamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djspyder Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Yes, sacrifice... Only I'm supposed to sacrifice the lives of others for what someone outside the situation considers the greater good. Actually... I've found that most of the Time, When it comes to sacrificing "innocents" its a DS option... like, I can take the easy route and WIn... but innocents will die... OR i can take the Hard way and Save lives. I Know SOMETIMES the LS side seems like the Wrong Side For the Greater Good... But Walking the path of the Light side is about Doing the right thing ALL THE TIME... Not just when it suites your goals. I WILL agree that sometimes the Republic Asks a Jedi to Do the Wrong thing For the Right reasons... But again, Walking the light side of the force is always doing the "RIGHT" thing... NOT the "Practical Thing".... Anyway Saying the Jedi council is "Evil" is a serious stretch... Misguided possibly, Closed minded could be... But "Evil"... no way.... the Republic may be a different story.... And saying the "Empire is Good" is also just wrong... Thats Like saying any Genocidal Dictator is good... Because You know... he kills his enemies brutally and he hates everyone who disagrees with his ideological... BUT he keeps order and safety for everyone who follows him... ya know as long as they don't ever have a thought that opposes him...Then they die a terrible death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizeth Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I lol'd at the title alone. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iolo Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 is any decision holy or evil? They all have consequences that make someone hurt or feel pain! So in the end what comes from that decision and where the future leads. Good - bad - Holy or Evil - it is never very pretty from someones perspective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoNoTejas Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Try reading more of the Star Wars universe to get a better perspective on this. My take on it has been that there is/has been an Empire bias in this game from Beta. In the Empire story lines the Jedi do draw sabers first, but that only reflects the misguided attempts by the writers to make the Empire less evil and is not consistent with the rest of the stories that are out there. Moral relativism is all the rage these days... I mean the same group wrote (correct me if I'm wrong here, I never played it) a story line for KOTOR where being 'neutral' was a viable option rather than the cowards way out it really is... Edited April 24, 2012 by Sireene rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randombot Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Congratulations! You've worked out what we've all known since beta, the Devs heavily favour the Dark Side and Sith. Most of the Jedi stories and gear (Consular) has been specifically made to be lame. I suspect this has more to do with Bioware now being owned by it's own evil Empire. *wink*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZORBOK Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 It Depends... The Empire thinks the Republic is the bad guys and the republic thinks the empire is the bad guys. (the Empire Story lines are more fun though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Ah.... the Sith. They look for the quick and easy path. Not so for the Jedi. It also occurs to me that stories and gear are consistent with this theorem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugee Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 My marauder once simultaneously force choked Jaessa's parents, snapping their necks before their jedi guardian could react, let alone ignite his saber. Just before that I murdered a general and everyone of her aides EXCEPT her lover, who I then sealed in the chamber with all the corpses, since I promised to let him live if the general talked. Yeah, Sith are the good guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivenlot Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I feel the upper site of the thread starter. The empire and dark side think at the presence not the future. Let me explain: in one mission we end up capturing a leader of a concentration camp, you have beaten him and get the choice of killing him (darkside) as revenge for the 10 000 he has killed. or hand him over to the legal system and put him in jail. He offers up the location of other concentration camps that's hidden all over the galaxy (the lightside option). Yes he is a bad guy and deserve to be punished hard, but kill him and the other camps continue to exist, in reality by killing the massmurder camp leader you let several hundred 1000 more die. On the empire side its the lightside choices are those that think of the future and would bring stability in the empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edoniltebaun Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Another instance that I find amusing is the quests throughout the Consular storyline on Tython. You're sent off to find information on the fall of the first dark side users and get to listen to some of the recordings that were left behind during the first fighting between them. Through all this, you learn that it was the first Council of light sided force users that decided the dark side users had to be put down completely and forcibly. Basically a form of genocide against people who didn't agree with their ideas/ideals. So technically the people who would eventually become the Jedi went on a killing spree against their fellows because of a difference of opinion. So you have to wonder if, around 14,000 years ago, both sides had decided to just segregate themselves and let students come to them as they would, where the galaxy would be now. Instead of the predecessors to the Jedi setting the stage for an ongoing conflict between ideologies that's killed trillions in that length of time. Maybe there would still be an Empire and a Republic, maybe not. Maybe both sides would still be at war and maybe not. Or it's entirely possible that instead of all out galactic combat on a myriad of worlds, it would be more localized where light side and dark side just fought over control of small solar systems and relatively tiny fiefdoms established by one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targarion Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Well, I took the plunge and decided to try rolling a Jedi for my new character. Having gone through the four Imperial storylines, I was surprised to find that The Empire were really the good guys in this whole thing, and The Republic was a corrupt and evil regime cloaked in a pretty facade. But that was from The Imperial standpoint. I figured being in a Republic storyline would show the shoe on the other foot. After all, you guys are supposed to be the good guys... Almost every single decission I've made so far has been dark side, simply because it is the only sensible option most of the time. What kind of evil, souless monsters work for the jedi council? If someone is suffering, I'm supposed to let them suffer and not interfear. If someone is causing suffering, I'm supposed to welcome him with open arms and not fight him. If someone is being attacked, I'm supposed to stand there, hold hands with them and sing Kumbaya as they get ripped to shreds... Seriously, who are you people and why are you the good guys? I am SO GOING DARKSIDE whenever I get the chance! Then I suggest you roll as a warrior or an inqusitor because you are definately not the good guy in their story lines. If by being good you are responsible for the massacre of millions of people then you have a twisted notion of good. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FigeroMentel Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Just because the Empire is honest about it being evil doesn't make them the GOOD guys. Democracy (any form of government for that matter) is never perfect, its always flawed. Corruption and inequality will run rampant, power corrupts in whatever government you are. The difference is the Republic tries, and at least strives to be a voice of reason and peace in the galaxy. The Jedi strive to be protectors of the weak and mediators of conflict. Of course certain situations do not allow for this, but as long as their is room to be there will people who will take up these mantles. The Empire does not give people these opportunities period. There is no room to improve or change as the Sith keep the status quo to fit their needs. I will say that many LS and DS choices are flawed and should not be considered moral choices. However, that does not invalidate the idea of 'Greater Good' or the deaths of a few for the many (Mace Windu ignoring the code to kill Sidious, as it was for the Greater Good). Two of the four Imperial storylines have a slave rise up to become a hero based on his or her actions. The Empire allows the strong to become whatever they wish. The Republic is full of noble titles and monarchies where a bloated senate makes decissions you have basically no say in. The Republic cloaks itself in words, preeches its noble and enlightened beliefs, and then works to undermine the peace and hides behind the veil of enlightenment to justify apathy toward the suffering of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FigeroMentel Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Actually... I've found that most of the Time, When it comes to sacrificing "innocents" its a DS option... like, I can take the easy route and WIn... but innocents will die... OR i can take the Hard way and Save lives. I Know SOMETIMES the LS side seems like the Wrong Side For the Greater Good... But Walking the path of the Light side is about Doing the right thing ALL THE TIME... Not just when it suites your goals. I WILL agree that sometimes the Republic Asks a Jedi to Do the Wrong thing For the Right reasons... But again, Walking the light side of the force is always doing the "RIGHT" thing... NOT the "Practical Thing".... Anyway Saying the Jedi council is "Evil" is a serious stretch... Misguided possibly, Closed minded could be... But "Evil"... no way.... the Republic may be a different story.... . I'm sure those ideals mean a lot to someone suffering because others are hiding behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FigeroMentel Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Then I suggest you roll as a warrior or an inqusitor because you are definately not the good guy in their story lines. If by being good you are responsible for the massacre of millions of people then you have a twisted notion of good. lol On the contrary; My Inquisitor showed mercy to those she defeated and worked to reform The Council for the betterment of its citizens. The big difference was, when I served the people, it was a lightside choice. When I served the people as a Jedi, it's a dark side choice. Edited April 24, 2012 by Sireene Inappropriate Content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leolab Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 There is one big difference between the Republic's darker side and the Empire's: The Republic hides it. In hiding it, they fail to have a proper check and balance, which tends to magnify it. The way the Empire's moral system is set up, the atrocities are out in the open, allowing individuals or groups to put a stop to them before they become anywhere near as bad as the Republic's. Of course, the Empire's system encourages evil, so people stopping it is less likely than if the Republic had a similar system. That's my view, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 This thread is Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrgil Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Every one of my characters just doesn't like to be bothered. I made it so I either want money to save the biggest battle ever or we all die or I don't do it at all Both my Jedi and Sith couldn't care less unless we get money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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